Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Playing Games with Congregations and Pastors:
Bishops Also Move Obliquely in Chess

"Let us pray we don't make the Bad Vestments blog for this outfit.
We did?"
See Bad Vestments comments below.


ALPB Online Quote from: Charles_Austin on Today at 10:24:40 AM I ask again: What does a bishop have to gain by giving a congregation a pastor they do not want? What does a bishop have to gain by "weeding out" any pastors, except perhaps for those who are ineffective and persistent troublemakers or who mess up in parish after parish? What is the "up side" of weeding out anyone but that sort?

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I am sure this has been answered "again" but here it is "again". It is called risk management, and it really is quite easy to understand. For example, as to why a bishop wouldn't give a congregation what it wants:

A large and mostly conservative congregation, that gives generously to the synod, is not happy with decisions of the ELCA. They enter the call system because their pastor retires, dies, or whatever. Even though this congregation has not indicated that it wants to leave the ELCA the bishop understands that if a vote were to take place it is likely they would have the 2/3rds majority necessary. So, instead of assigning an orthodox interum or recommending an orthodox pastor the bishop places a radical revisionist as the interim. This upsets many people and the most vocal opponents leave reducing the chances that the congregation will ever be able to achieve a 2/3rds majority. The bishop then recommends only moderate ELCA loyalist for the call (who, by the way, now look orthodox when compared to the interim). This formerly "at risk" congregation now has been effectively neutered and the benevolence dollars continue to roll in.

As to why a bishop would want to "weed out" orthodox pastors, again it is a risk management thing. I have to believe that many bishops see putting orthodox pastors into orthodox congregations as adding fuel to the flame. Then there is the emotional factor. I don't know many bishops who enjoy meeting with angry and frustrated traditional/confessional congregations who oppose the changes caused by HSGT and the changes in V&E. I also understand that with ever decreasing budgets it must be painful for bishops to lay off synod staff and reduce ministries. The cause of this emotional pain in their minds? - those darn orthodox clergy. I find it quite easy to understand why an ELCA bishop would not want well spoken orthodox pastors like Stephen and Erma at their synod assemblies, stirring things up and drawing attention to things they just want to go away?

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Comments from Bad Vestments:



28 Comments

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Blogger Elephantschild said...
That ring of stars looks rather like the EU flag.

Creepy.
August 13, 2009 9:42 PM
Anonymous Steve Martin said...
Maybe this a prelude to the upcoming vote on the acceptance of homosexuality in the church.

The rainbowish colors and all that gay stuff seem to go together, (I've seen too many bumper stickers, maybe)
August 14, 2009 11:54 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
At least he's not wearing a matching mitre!
August 14, 2009 9:13 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Gotta say, the homosexuals in the church that I know wouldn't be caught dead in this. We have much better style and taste. ;)
August 14, 2009 10:09 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Is that a green telephone on the altar?!?
August 17, 2009 12:16 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
My initial thought was, "Hey, Dumbeldor trimmed his beard!"
August 17, 2009 6:39 AM
Blogger Elijah the Tishbite said...
What are those Zs for? ZZ Top? This will put you to sleep?
August 17, 2009 8:28 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This was the ELCA youth gathering, the theme of which was Jesus, Justice, and Jazz (hence the Zs) - and that green thing does look like a phone...
August 17, 2009 3:53 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I WAS THERE......IT WAS BAD!
August 18, 2009 10:48 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The green thing is a fiestaware pitcher.
August 18, 2009 11:21 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
for the record, he also wore the same chausable 3 years ago in San Antonio for the Youth Gathering there...Perhaps it is just his time after pentecost vestments and nothing more...
August 18, 2009 11:25 AM
Blogger Jim Olson said...
What does it say when so many 'youth' liturgies are dumbed down? I constantly argue with my youth group leaders and with others in my denomination; the youth want to be taken seriously, and crave mystery and a sense of the sacred. The most popular event I do all year with them is the youth lock in, at which we hold a midnight Eucharist. It is actually much more formal and liturgical than the one I ordinarily do for their parents and grandparents on Sunday morning...and they LOVE it. We use the historic silver, I put on my best vestments (ones their parents don't like me to wear) , we chant a little (I teach it to them then and there...), they read parts of the liturgy, etc. They love it and look forward to it all year. "Dumbing it down" with goofy or no vestments, paraments, with common or 'youth' vessels, and with 'youth' liturgy is not the answer. If you teach them carefully along the way what you're doing, let them ask questions, take them seriously, and make a big deal of it, then they grow to love the liturgy and take it very, very seriously. If you goof around with it because they are 'the youth', you make a fool of yourself, and they don't take it, or you, seriously.
August 18, 2009 4:41 PM
Blogger Bob Waters said...
The ELCA is NOT Lutheran in any theologically meaningful sense. Just sayin.'

On the other hand, it does not surprise me to see the Presiding Bishop of that outfit dressed like Merlin the Wizard. I think they're in full communion with the Druids.
August 19, 2009 12:37 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I know, I've been trying to for years to get us to say more hateful things about Catholics and Calvinists so we can be Lutheran again in a thelogically meaningful sense. No one listens.
August 20, 2009 11:16 AM
Blogger Joy said...
Correct, Bob. I left the ELCA 14 years ago and never looked back.
August 20, 2009 11:17 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bob Waters--

You initially frustrated me with your ELCA comment. Then you promptly made it all better with your Druid comment. I'm actually still laughing. Thank you sir, thank you.
August 22, 2009 12:59 PM
Blogger Bob Waters said...
To Jesus, you mean? In ELCA, Anonymous, you're too right.

Disagreeing with somebody else and having the courage of your convictions isn't hateful. The notion that it is produces... well, the ELCA.
August 26, 2009 7:29 PM
Blogger Rev Scott said...
Bob - if you mean the ELCA isn't Lutheran in the "closed off from anyone who doesn't toe every line on my particular platform" sense, then you're right. However, if you mean the ELCA isn't Lutheran in the "living in the tension of being simul iustus et peccator" sense, you couldn't be more wrong.

Whatever. As much as I respect my presiding bishop, that chasuble is as atrocious as they come.
August 26, 2009 7:35 PM
Blogger wyclif said...
It's like the Knights of the Order of Malta threw up at a Gay Pride Day.
August 27, 2009 11:54 PM
Blogger Bob Waters said...
I mean- as one who spent twelve years as an ELCA pastor- that the ELCA isn't Lutheran in the sense that the Scriptures and the Confessions have no authority, and that it's been a generation since they've significantly informed its corporate life. As we saw in Minneapolis.

The vestments fit the theology- strictly new age.
August 28, 2009 2:23 PM
Anonymous Rev. Allen Bergstrazer said...
There should be a sub category within bad vestments: "Somebody (wife/mom/quilting ladies) made this for me and I have to wear it."

Anyone been there?
August 31, 2009 12:44 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm pretty sure, knowing a bit about Hanson and a lot more about the ELCA, that he special ordered it, as a "subtle" statement of soldarity with our newly affirmed gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered members.

My "bound conscience" tells me that this silly display is just one more reason that we no longer are a part of the ELCA. We have been delivered!!
November 23, 2009 2:01 AM
Blogger melissa said...
Wow, no anger or hostility here...

He wore it at the ELCA Youth Gathering at our closing worship which, by the way, was in no way watered down or dumbed down for the youth's sake. He wore the extremely Mardi Gras-esque chasabule because we were in New Orleans and our theme for the week was Jesus, Justice, Jazz.

As to all of the intentionally mean and unbelievably closed-minded comments about the ELCA, sure, you're entitled to your opinion, but spewing misinformation and anger and hate is hardly the adult or Christian thing to do.

So seriously guys, laugh at the funny vestments, but knock it off with the ridiculous and offensive theological assertions.
January 12, 2010 10:39 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Mark Hanson actually does not particularly like this chasuble but, like most heads of churches, he simply wears what others (in this case, someone from a Youth Gathering committee) puts on him.

Scott Weidler
ELCA Associate Dirctor for Worship & Music
January 12, 2010 12:56 PM
Blogger Steve said...
Melissa,
I find it amusing that as soon as someone points out the obvious degradation of scriptural and confessional authority in the ELCA, some ELCA-loyalist comes along and accuses said person of spewing misinformation and hate. That is hardly inclusive. That is harldy loving, especially when the person actually said nothing hateful nor spread any misinformation. You may not agree with what he said, but that does not qualify what he said as misinformation. Actually, that being the case, it would be more accurate to say that you were the one guilty of spreading misinformation.
January 24, 2010 2:34 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hey, now. The knights of Malta have a very lovely habit, especially the knights of justice (the religious order at their center). Comparing this to that is entirely unfair to them.
January 27, 2010 1:19 PM
Anonymous Michael said...
Have anyone of you looked through the rest of these photos? The clergy of other denominations are looking ridiculous as well. So are you saying that the Episcopalians, Presbyterians and other clergy members of other denominations are "dumbing down" the liturgy for their people or making a mockery of their Confessions and the Scripture? Not everyone believes everything of one denomination. I for one do not agree with all of the ELCA's policies but I am still a member of an ELCA congregation. Because of people's ignorance and hate (by hate, I do mean that), I was run out of my church of twenty-five years by members who had been there not even five years. So when you want to say that the ELCA is not abiding with the scriptures and Confessions, let's turn the table to those who are a part of Lutheran CORE and the NALC who have been hateful and ignorant to the fact that they have split families (biological and religious) as well as communities. So let's all get along and be friends. After all, don't we all worship one God, one Savior? Last time I checked, we did.

-Michael
November 15, 2010 10:31 PM
Anonymous Dan said...
I wish more ELCA members would know what the ELCA is teaching. -http://www.exposingtheelca.com