The Glory Has Departed

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a third one has been sent now.

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I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

Wednesday, October 12, 2011

Pietism and UOJ?
Jay Webber Jumps Up To Prove the Connection

UOJ is connected to Pietism via Zinzendorf and Halle University.
Bishop Stephan led his cell-group Pietists out of this congregation to America.


German Wikipedia

Johann Jakob Rambach (* February 24 1693 in Halle (Saale) , † April 19 1735 in Giessen ) was a German Protestant theologian and hymn writer .
He first served an apprenticeship as a carpenter , he was a disciple August Hermann Francke and theologian , later succeeded him as professor , son of Joachim Lange , 1731 Professor and Superintendent in Giessen, editor of a hymn book with many new songs. In the community life of the evangelical church today is primarily still Rambach "I am baptized in your name" by the song (Protestant hymnal No. 200), which is often sung following a baptism present.
Rambach was twice married. He completed his first marriage with Johanna Elisabeth († 1730), the daughter of the professor of theology Joachim Lange . That same year he married again.
Of his daughters are known Charlotte Elizabeth (born June 15, 1727 in Halle (Saale), † September 8, 1761 in Worms, married May 24, 1746 with the pastor in high school in Giessen and Worms Christian Heinrich Nebel († 1786).) [1] . Her older sister is the well-known from Goethe's poetry and truth pastor's wife Griesbach [2]


Son of Hans Ja­kob Ram­bach, cab­i­net mak­er at Hal­le, Jo­hann left school in 1706, and en­tered his fa­ther’s work­shop. How­ev­er, in the au­tumn of 1707, he dis­lo­cat­ed his an­kle, and dur­ing his re­cov­ery, he turned to his school books, and his de­sire for learn­ing re­a­wak­ened. Ear­ly in 1708, he en­tered the La­tin School of the Hal­le Or­phanage, and on Oc­to­ber 27, 1712, he ma­tric­u­lat­ed at the Un­i­ver­si­ty of Hal­le as a med­i­cal stu­dent. He soon turned his at­tent­ion to the­ol­o­gy, though, and be­came es­pe­ci­al­ly in­ter­est­ed in Old Tes­ta­ment stu­dy un­der J. H. Mi­chael­is. In May 1715, he be­came one of Mi­chael­is’ as­sist­ants, help­ing pre­pare his edi­tion of the He­brew Bi­ble, for which he wrote the com­men­ta­ry on Ruth, Es­ther, Ne­he­mi­ah, and other books. His health be­gan to suf­fer in the spring of 1719, and he ac­cept­ed the in­vi­ta­tion of Count von Henk­el to stay at Pöl­zig, near Ron­ne­burg, where he spent sev­er­al months. By Au­gust, he had re­cov­ered, and went to vi­sit Je­na, where a num­ber of stu­dents had asked him to lec­ture. He set­tled in Je­na in Oc­to­ber 1719, liv­ing in the home of Pro­fess­or Bud­de­us (J. F. Budde). He grad­u­at­ed MA in March 1720, and in 1723 was ap­point­ed ad­junct of the The­o­lo­gic­al fa­cul­ty at Hal­le; as an in­spect­or of the Or­phan­age; in 1726 ex­tra­or­din­a­ry pro­fess­or of the­ol­o­gy; and in 1727, af­ter A. H. Francke’s death, or­din­a­ry pro­fess­or and preach­er at the Schul­kirche. Here he was ve­ry pop­u­lar, both as preach­er and pro­fess­or, but his col­leagues’ jeal­ousy in­duced him to ac­cept an of­fer from Land­grave Ernst Lud­wig of Hess­en, who in 1731 in­vit­ed him to Giess­en as su­per­in­ten­dent and first pro­fess­or of the­ol­o­gy (be­fore leav­ing Halle, he received his Doc­tor of Di­vin­i­ty de­gree on June 28, 1731), and in Au­gust 1732, ap­point­ed him al­so di­rect­or of the Pae­da­go­gi­um at Giess­en. In 1734, he al­most ac­cept­ed an of­fer of the first pro­fess­or­ship of the­ol­o­gy at the new­ly found­ed Un­i­ver­si­ty of Gött­ing­en, but at the re­quest of the Land­grave, de­cid­ed to stay in Giess­en.


Jay Webber cinches his argument with a quotation from a Halle Pietist:

The 18th-century Lutheran theologian Johann Jacob Rambach makes the following observation in his Ausfuehrliche Erklaerung der Epistel an die Roemer (p. 322), regarding the Lord's payment and satisfaction of sinful humanity's "debt" to God:

"Christ was in his resurrection first of all justified for his own person, Is. 50:5, 1 Tim. 3:16, since the righteousness of God declared that it had been paid and satisfied in full by this our Substitute, and issued him as it were a receipt thereof; and that happened in his resurrection, when he was released from his debtor's prison and set free. But since the Substitute was now justified, then in him also all debtors were co-justified."

Later in that commentary Rambach also writes (in a way that shows that he has 1 Tim. 3:16 in mind):

"The justification of the human race indeed also ocurred, in respect of the acquisition, in one moment, in the moment in which Christ rose and was thus declared righteous; but in respect of the appropriation it still continues till the last day."


Rev. Webber is a smart guy, but Webber is wrong in this case. I think he is confused because UOJers mix Lutheran doctrine in with their UOJ doctrine. They speak of faith acquiring righteousness in the subjective justification step, but strictly according to their UOJ doctrine, there is no acquiring anything by faith, but instead faith only opens their eyes and they realize that they had been justified all along.

That's sound Lutheran doctrine by Rambach--that in respect to acquisition only, Christ acquired forgiveness and righteousness for the entire world (i.e., universal atonement). The point at issue with UOJ is whether the Father declared the entire world righteous at Christ's resurrection. No, he did not. The righteousness remains in heaven, as Luther's treasure quote tells us, and is only distributed to men as they come to faith, and it is taken back if they apostatize.


GJ - I would express the treasure part a different way, Bruce. The treasure of the Gospel is not locked up in heaven but always distributed by the Holy Spirit through the visible and invisible Gospel Word.


bruce-church ( has left a new comment on your post "Pietism and UOJ? Jay Webber Jumps Up To Prove the...":

Webber got the Rambach quote from volume III of Walther-Baier, pp. 271-3. Here is another translation of that quote:

J. J. Rambach: “Christ was in his resurrection first of all for his own person made righteous, Isa. 50:5, 1 Tim. 3:16, then the righteousness of God declared that from this our surety may be paid out and we are fully freed, and he is like a receipt given, and this happens in his resurrection; there he leaves his shield-tower and is placed on free feet. There now the surety is justified, thus in him also all debtors will be made righteous.” (Ausführliche Erklärung der Ep. and die Römer, p. 322)