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| Frosty will gladly answer any questions, then Boba Fett, in the back, will take you out! |
AC V has left a new comment on your post ""LutherQuest - For Laughs"":
Confusion of Law and Gospel
or
Bivens' April 2012 FiCL gobbledygook on how to use the Keys.
In the April 2012 Forward in Christ (sssshhhhh: "A Lutheran Voice"), contributing editor Forrest Bivens, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary says this in answer to the question:
"Should we forgive others for all the sins they may commit against us? If they show no remorse or repentence, are we still to offer forgivenes?"
In his answer, Bivens bends over backwards to keep UOJ front and center. His practical advice:
"Especially to those who have wronged us yet have given no evidence of contrition before God or reliance on Jesus as their sin-bearer, we may say:
'I fully and freely forgive you, sinner to sinner. I hold no grudge against you, seek no retaliation, and will keep no record of wrongs. I have no desire or need for this. My Lord Jesus is my ultimate Protector, and he will satisfy justice in the end. Vengeance is his to give, not mine.
'But please understand that this actually may mean very little for your long-term well-being. If and as long as you do not repent before God of your sin, you do not enjoy the forgiveness Christ earned for you. You forfeit personal benefit of his pardon. You have my forgiveness, given cheerfully in love. But just like me, a sinner like you, you need the personal enjoyment of Christ's forgiveness, which is also freely given. I am willing to do anything I can to help you enjoy this.'"
Biven concludes:
"Our responsibility is to forgive others fully, unconditionally. As we communicate this, let us also speak wisely as well as lovingly so that we will best serve our neighbor."
I have a simpler way, the words of Jesus himself: "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld" (John 20:23).
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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Bivens - UOJ Jedi Knight, Fuller Alumnus":
Let's back up a little. In the paragraphs preceding the advice on how we must "unconditionally" forgive the unrepentant, Bivens reluctantly says,
"You might also be thinking of our high privilege to forgive or not forgive sinners in administering 'the keys' in ways that reflect prior repentance or impenitence (see Matthew 18:15-20; John 20:21-23). This tells us much about how we are to communicate with fellow sinners as God's representatives on earth, (UOJ drum roll please) but nothing removes from us the sacred, personal obligation to forgive unconditionally."
He goes on to explain that "unconditionally" means we give forgiveness "especially to those who have wronged us yet have given no evidence of contrition before God or reliance on Jesus as their sin-bearer."
Wow, just, wow!
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| UOJ advocate Jungkuntz (Northwestern College) became chairman of the board of the first Lutheran seminary to train open homosexuals. |
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GJ - I have to dab my eyes when I read such touching stories of forgiveness from WELS. They are tears of laughter, not wracking sobs of heart-felt relief. No sect is more nasty, vindictive, and unforgiving than WELS.
Bivens is another UOJ deceiver, bragging to his entire circuit that he went to Fuller Seminary, then wondering at Mequon where I got that story from.
Few people write as poorly about doctrine as Bivens. I hope he keeps this up and exposes the doctrinal depravity of WELS even more vigorously.
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bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Bivens - UOJ Jedi Knight, Fuller Alumnus":
Frosty Biven's argument is illogical. First he says that we must forgive a brother unconditionally though he shows no sign of contrition, and then that brother enjoys our forgiveness, but then he says that God also forgives unconditionally, yet that person does NOT enjoy that forgiveness unless there is contrition and faith. Thus they dress up the very conditional forgiveness on God's part as though it were unconditioned by the presence of active faith reacting to law and gospel preaching.
By the way, since God supplies the faith ("with God belief is possible" - Matt 19:29; the Gospel is the power of God - 2 Tim 1:8), this doctrine taught by Orthodox "Old" Lutherans is not synergism as the later Pietistic Reformed Lutherans like CFW Walther charged.
