AC V has left a new comment on your post "David Jay Webber, MDiv, Misleading the LaughQuest ...":
DJ Webber on LaughQuest: "The theological truth of objective justification is implicit in the phrase "justification by faith." If humanity's justification in Christ were not in some sense an objective fact that is offered in the means of grace, so as to be an object of faith, then the most that we could say is that Christians are justified in faith. Those who deny the objective side of justification turn justification in its entirety into something that is brought into existence in the act of faith, rather than seeing justification as something that is received by faith."
The problem, Rev. Webber, is that because of the "OJ/SJ" division of categories, you are forced to put faith into the "subjective" category and thereby make faith not something God does to and for me (objective), but something "I" do of and by myself.
Everything about Justification is objective, even faith. I don't work faith from within myself, God gives it from outside of and for me.
See again the Formula of Concord Solid Declaration III:25 for Confessional support that faith is necessary to the definition of Justification. When you take faith out of "Objective Justification" and put it into the so-called "Subjective Justification" category you thereby create two Justifications, a concept foreign to the Scriptures and the Confessions.
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Book of Concord, Formula of Concord,
III, The Righteousness of Faith
25] For not everything that belongs to conversion belongs likewise to the article of justification, in and to which belong and are necessary only the grace of God, the merit of Christ, and faith, which receives this in the promise of the Gospel, whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, whence we receive and have forgiveness of sins, reconciliation with God, sonship, and heirship of eternal life.
26] Therefore true, saving faith is not in those who are without contrition and sorrow, and have a wicked purpose to remain and persevere in sins; but true contrition precedes, and genuine faith is in or with true repentance [justifying faith is in those who repent truly, not feignedly].
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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Please Read the Formula of Concord and Get Back To...":
Cf. also Knapp's definition of OJ/SJ, namely: "subjective is the act of man"
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| How can Jay Webber criticize Church Growth when he advocates the same false doctrine as Knapp and Valleskey? |
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| I endorse this statement. But how many millions of dollars have been drained from synod offerings to fund Fuller foolishness? |
LPC has left a new comment on your post "Please Read the Formula of Concord and Get Back To...":
His statement rather than seeing justification as something that is received by faith."
says that he does not agree with Luther who said that faith itself is justification. The statement also says he does not accept that man is justified by faith alone.
Also the statement then the most that we could say is that Christians are justified in faith is a fallacy, tertium non datur; the favorite fallacy of UOJers.
JBFA is clearly taught in John 3:16, the one who believes in Christ (present tense) does not perish but has everlasting life. Or to put it another sense, man has eternal life (salvation) through faith in Christ.
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Please Read the Formula of Concord and Get Back To...":
It's also important to see how (W)ELS Pastor David Jay Webber exposes the true object of UOJ's withered hand of faith - it is man's justification. Buchholz, Zarling, Becker and the rest of the UOJists teach this also.
Webber states, "If humanity's justification in Christ were not in some sense an objective fact that is offered in the means of grace, so as to be an object of faith"
The object of the Holy Spirit's faith, Christ's righteousness, worked graciously and solely in men through the Means of Grace is in Christ and Him crucified for the payment of sins. UOJ declares anathema on this and states their faith can only be created and can only cling to forgiveness declared and distributed prior to faith. The nail in their coffin is that they say faith cannot cling to or be created by something that hasn't already happened - asserting again that UOJ's faith is in their justification and righteousness already being delcared by God before they believed and not in Christ.
Oh, the contradictions and blasphemies the spew forth from the unholy birth and nurture of UOJ!
Keep the UOJists talking and they skewer themselves on Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.
