Steadfast Lutherans » SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations

Sweet was the featured speaker at Concordia, St. Louis,
and he bedazzles the leaders of WELS with his spacey Zen statements.

Steadfast Lutherans » SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations:

SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations

January 25th, 2012Post by Martin Noland

Because of comments and additional information received by email, the post has been completely revised.   I did the best research I could on the basis of published sources, but it looks like the published sources are not what is actually happening. 

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GJ - C. F. W. Walther's training consisted of a four-year degree at Leipzig (rationalistic). Yet he is the greatest theologian who ever lived, with all his opinions trumping Luther and the Book of Concord.

The answer seems to be a much shorter and more focused training period, perhaps a five-year degree, plus the elimination of the costly vicarage year, which was invented and imposed on students.

Another odd, modern concept is the wife financing her husband's schooling when the LCMS has abandoned its own seminaries. Mission funds are for the pay and perks of the synod staff, who live and work like princes.

Coming soon is a collapse of the traditional seminary system in the synods. ELCA's beehives are obviously in crisis: Berkeley, Chicago, Southern, Wartburg (the obvious ones). The two LCMS seminaries are bloated brick-piles serving the interests of the faculties.

Here is the cussing minister, Driscoll,
with the senior editor of the ESV, J. I. Packer, a Calvinist.
But Issues, Etc chuckles that "justification by faith" is Calvinist.

Anonymous Name-Caller Quits Ichabod

fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Commenting on this site makes me feel as if I were commenting to Pharisees. So I write poorly and communicate poorly therefore the logical conclusion is that I have poor attitude toward's doctrine? WHAT?!? So what you are saying Greg is that since I struggle with proper English, I therefore struggle with proper Doctrine.

 
That is quite mean Greg. I pity any individual you may counsel who is less gifted than you, or a brother who has deficiencies comes to you. What comfort can you give them. There is no empathy or understanding.



It must be hard being you since according to your words which you write, everyone needs to measure up to you. Sad. Dreadfully sad. How can you even call yourself a servant. When you write against me there is not a single bit of humility there.

1 Timothy 1:15. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of whom I am the worst.

Believe it Greg. You are, just as I am the very ugliest of sinners and Christ died for the both of us. Yet you are so focused on my typing. My grammar. My unintelligible, incomprehensible writing.

You lost a blog reader. And whatever respect I had for you. I remember in Seminary reading about you and your disgust over the brothers making fun of each other. I felt sorry for you. I don't anymore. My brothers love me. We support each other in the ministry.

Luther Rocks says you support Lutheran Orthodoxy, well that may be, but you don't support those who preach it like me and hundreds of others in the WELS.

God's Blessings to you Greg. Farewell.

A first Generation Pastor, proudly serving his flock. Faithfully administering the Means of Grace. Diligently studying the Word.


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GJ - This melancholy post should remind everyone how the "everyone is forgiven, everyone is saved" people are so anxious to condemn, anonymously.

The WELS pastors act as if they are ferocious, but when asked about their doctrine and practice, they melt like Jello left on a south-facing window sill.

The Wisconsin Sect wants its workers to be passive robots who repeat what they are told.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Anonymous Name-Caller Quits Ichabod":

About the WELS speller.

The JW's used to say until recently that JW's ought not pursue a college degree, since that was too worldly (translation: they lose too many members in college). Now, however, they say that a college degree is like a high school degree, so college is allowed, but they say JW's ought not pursue grad school since that's too worldly.

The WELS had a simpler solution to that problem: just don't teach grammar and spelling properly, and they'll never make it to graduate school. That's partly why there's a dearth of doctors in the WELS. Also, they don't teach foreign languages well.

Unfortunately in this world, people use little tricks to separate the smart people from the dumb people, tricks they think are quick and reliable. Spelling and grammar are one, and another is the trick of having someone repeat back a list or a phone number or something, since supposedly if your short-term memory is bad, it doesn't matter whether your long-term memory is bad or good since your rate of learning is impeded by your short-term memory.

Another trick is how good a talker you are, and whether you have brain freeze. When Perry stumbled during a debate, it was all over for his candidacy since people make their judgment on such slight things. Someone objected to this test once saying that if it were true, radio show hosts were smarter than Einstein.

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GJ - One WELS teacher said that they were forced to pass along the Wisconsin royalty, the children of officials, no matter how horrible they were in academics.

There is a certain pride in being stupid too. It is a way of getting out of any discussions. "I am stupid, but fat." Or - "I don't remember that." Or - "He was appointed by the Holy Spirit, so who am I to argue with God's decision."

Supposedly the Protest'ant split made WELSians suspicious of anyone with intellect, since that group was considered intellectual.

Whatever the reasons, the current attitude of passive obedience is certain to drive away any members or pastors who can think above the repeat-after-me level. Some will be beaten like rented mules and driven away, but others will simply stop showing up. For instance, one alumnus of Wisco will no longer go back because "It's not my school anymore."

Synods and Individuals Do Not Establish Doctrine. They Cannot Vote on Doctrine

Gregory the Theologian.
His name day is today, a fact ignored by the sinuflecting McCain.

Someone set off alarm bells in writing me about when UOJ was "established doctrine" because a synodical convention voted on it.

That is as logical as saying abortion is moral because the Supreme Court made it legal. They also legalized sodomy, in a rare reversal, so what does that say about right and wrong in the halls of justice?

The only true, certain doctrine is revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures. The issue is not agreement with me or with a particular synod, but harmony with the Word of God.

The Book of Concord is not the same as the Word of God, because it is a confession of faith, a response to the Word of God. However, the Lutheran Symbols--as they are sometimes called--are unique in being the standard (a ruled norm) for all Lutherans. Some groups or nations stop with the Augsburg Confession, but that is a minor issue, since the Concordists and Luther himself were "theologians of the Augsburg Confession."

A multi-nation, multi-generational confession is quite powerful in its effect, as we can see in the Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds. When people add or distort words to meet their political needs, as WELS did with two creeds, the corruption is obvious, making the original thought shine more brightly. The drunks who approved "fully human" are the professors who graduates that cannot write complete sentences. But that does not change Christian doctrine, which is taught by God, not by self-centered dimwits.

Before someone can start chattering about doctrine, he has to examine whether his opinions can be proven with the Word of God, in harmony with the Confessions. The Book of Concord keeps us from making the same mistakes of the past, repeating the old heresies dressed up in a different set of clothes. Huberism came back as Halle double-justification, which was born-again as Waltherism.

Honoring the Confessions is saying, "I realize many giants of Biblical and patristic learning studied and discussed these issues for years. I honor their learning before I open my mouth to speak." For instance, we know that the fantasy of universal absolution was rebuked by Luther in the Book of Concord and by an editor of the Book of Concord. Anyone who wants to go against Luther and Leyser must show himself more skillful in his exegetical knowledge, with some evidence about how those experts in justification got it so wrong.

Repeating the talking points of a tiny, shrinking Midwestern sect is not the same as teaching sound doctrine. Those who cling to synodical positions are repeating the Roman Catholic error of circular reasoning. "This is true because Holy Mother Synod said it is true. You are a heretic because Holy Mother Synod said you are a heretic."

Church projects more challenging after the boom times

Church projects more challenging after the boom times:


Around the mid-1990s, a building boom took off for churches in Bismarck and Mandan. At least 40 took on remodeling or additions to their facilities. Though some were modest, close to half of those projects topped the $1 million mark. A few reached the $3 million-$4 million territory.

That boom was part of a national trend of church-building, said the Rev. Tim Johnson, who has been interim senior pastor at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Bismarck since February 2010.

However, around 2008, as the economy soured, churches around the country still wanting to build found that lenders had grown more cautious. And in some cases, churches that had undertaken large building projects found themselves struggling under the debt load.

Good Shepherd broke ground for a second campus, called Horizon, along North Washington Street north of 43rd Avenue in 2005, anticipating that the galloping growth in new subdivisions in north Bismarck would call for a second facility. At that time, Good Shepherd, across from the YMCA at Washington Street and Divide Avenue, was bursting at the seams, struggling with parking and adding worship times to accommodate its numbers.

A new north campus seemed like a logical solution.

In hindsight, it turned out to be a financial overreach, Johnson said.

"It was a good idea, a good dream, but the growth didn't come as expected," he said. The financial burden of carrying the $2.7 million building became undoable.


Read more
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/church-projects-more-challenging-after-the-boom-times/article_7c712584-43ba-11e1-afd2-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1kVY2fslX


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We're in your synod, wasting your offering dollars,
kneeling before false teachers,
because we love Jesus so much.

GJ - WELS waited for the bottom of the real estate market and bought a new headquarters building, PU Towers, and ended up with an unsold Love Shack. Savvy money management, that.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Church projects more challenging after the boom ti...":

That reminds me. I wonder how Holy Word's church plant is proceeding in Austin, Texas--the branch of Holy Word that is only a couple of miles from Doebler's Rock n Roll church in Round Rock, Texas:

http://www.holyword.net/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140015469&sec_id=140005270  

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Nearby, Doebler had real, live bunnies to pet for Easter,
and an egg hunt.
Top that!

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Church projects more challenging after the boom ti...":

They have had to apply paddles on more than one occasion as I fear the north campus is in cardiac arrest. Attendance was 89 on the 15th of January, but before that only in the 40's. They went so far as to eliminate the 8 am service at the south campus (sounds so metro..I know) during December to jump start attendance at north.

You know, most people just want to gather at the feet of Jesus and hear the Word and then share it with those in their circles when the opportunity presents itself. They are not all into being something that the Lord may not have intended them for.

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GJ - I am trying to figure out WELS stewardship, with that expert CEO (ex-SP) Gurgle helping out at Holy Word. After I made fun of all the spelling mistakes in Gurgle's ecstatic emails, I stopped getting them from my source.

Do you think HE is fight4god? No, God called Gurgle's entire family into the ministry, and fight4god is the only one in his.

Holy Word decided to expand into the same suburb as a new WELS mission, which is still trying to get on its feet. To do this, Kudu Don Patterson had to raise a lot of money. So he gave the WELS-LCMS fundraising business $40,000 of offering money to raise the dough. Questioning that fat fee meant excommunication.

But Holy Word is so needy that they must have a free vicar each year, courtesy of WELS offering money.

Seven Marks of the Church « The First Premise

Seven Marks of the Church « The First Premise:

In Part III of “On Councils and the Church,” Luther identifies “seven marks of the church,” of which the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church can be recognized:

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The Professor Speaks

Adolph Hoenecke has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Yikes, I hope this is not one of my former students! Fight4god, why don't you come back after you've tightened up your grammar.

Remember, your moderator is a college professor. He will nail you everytime, as well he should. I always double check grammar and spelling when I post here. It's made me a more careful writer, I think.

Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymous WELS Martin Luther College Graduate

fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

[Sentence fragment ->] Through hatred and false claims. This is the way of current blogging. [Unsupported  accusation. ->] Use a general comment which has absolutely no foundation. I have gone through MLC, [semi-colon needed, not a comma] I have worshiped there every day and night [Really?]. I have listened to law and gospel every day, but yet [but yet is a new form of English] you claim that most kids there don't experience Lutheran Worship [worship]. Are you there? Do you speak with those who preach there every day and night? do [Do] you listen to chapel pod casts? [No one is allowed to unbend the knee before Holy Mother WELS: infallible, indefectible, immaculate, ineluctable.]

Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura are preached. they [They] are taught, they dominate our education. [So why is a D.Min. from Fuller Seminary teaching "evangelism?"]

It really sounds to me that you are making a law concerning worship, that you have the Lutheran Rule and everyone else is to follow.

But when it comes to Lutheran Worship [worship], there is freedom within the man made Liturgies [man-made liturgies- feel the contempt in "man-made"] that we follow. If Koine plays and more people [more people what? puke? clap? turn Babtist?] so be it, we have churches for the sick. The chapel doesn't schedule people to fill church but they schedule groups to enrich worship.

If I get Camp Phillip's praise band to enrich my worship service and more people come to that service, i [I] am only convinced more that my people are sinners and i [I] am the worst. What do you expect? that we will all be holy and blameless here on earth and we do all things for the right reasons? Do individuals tune into your webcast for the right reasons every sunday? [Sunday] i [I] would be confident in saying no. [How do you know, fight4god? Have you spoken with me or any listeners?]

I chuckle at your vile and distaste [vile is an adjective, but used here as a noun in parallel with distaste] for the WELS. You hope that the synod falls and is punished by God. [fight4god, you claim to be a mind and motive reader.] You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. [No, you claim that. DP Buchholz declared that in a convention paper.] That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism. [I have documented many instances and given the citations. You simply deny the obvious. The Mequon website actually shows quotations about justification by faith being marked as "misleading."]

Your attacks on good men in the synod however is [the singular verb does not agree with the plural subject] ill founded. [This sentence is incomprehensible. You disagree with some of the men? ->] I don't disagree with some of your findings, but with many of the men that you attack as Church and Changers and Church Growth guys etc. not [Not] all of them are what you say they are. [<- This is another unwarranted claim.] I have spoken with them. I have worshiped at many of their churches. I would say as a pastor, I am do not [am do not?] appreciate empty songs, and fluffy blah sermons, and lovey dovey emotional experiences at church. If i [I] have read enough of your stuff you always paint with a broad brush regarding all of these men.  [<-This is another accusation without any proof.] You are indeed wrong.

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GJ - The Sausage Factory brags about their educational system, which is allegedly the envy of every denomination of the world. Third world chieftains and ox-cart owners send their sons to WELS so they can compete in the global economy.

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

You are so predictable greg! as i was writing in a flurry of thought and objection, i thought to myself "boy this is poorly written, but he's smart, he can decipher it and understand what i am talking about!"

but instead you did what you have done before, attack the grammar, punctuation, and then belittle the author's intelligence.

brilliant greg.

avoid debate, correct the grammar in comments made, belittle a pastor. just another day in your shoes eh?

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

my screen name is simply gleaned from one of my favorite hymns, Onward Christian Soldiers. Soldiers fight and also protect.

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GJ - You fight without discipline and run without shame, fight4god. You have not made a single argument, only some vague accusations and even vaguer defenses. We are all dying to know who these pastors are who are NOT Church and Change. And why not leave your name and congregation, o great fighter?

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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

This young lad needs to learn that you do not bring a knife to a gunfight.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God said:

"You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism."

You are correct that it is not taught in Luther's Catechism. But you might want to try to untangle this mess taught by Seminary professors and other Synod officials:

"God has declared all guilty sinners not guilty by his gracious, saving work in Christ Jesus." (Lines 172-173)

- Translation Evaluation Committee; Pastor John A. Braun (NPH), Professor Kenneth A Cherney Jr. (WLS) Professor Thomas P. Nass (MLC) Pastor Joel V. Petermann (District President, MLC President-elect); Professor Paul O. Wendland (WLS President)

http://www.wels.net/sites/wels/files/BORAM2011_supplemental_translationevaluationcommittee.pdf

"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens, (WLS)

At best these men are muddled in their understanding and teaching of justification by faith alone. At worst, they are teaching a false gospel.

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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

fight4God? God doesn't need anyone fighting for Him much less winning souls for Him. This is a fallacy.

The argument for forms of worship is not the issue. The motivation is the issue. Sad to say WELS has gone headlong now into CGM as evidenced by the Evangelism Day itinerary.

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "WELS Martin Luther College - What They Hid from th...":

Poor Stroh, Pastor GJ wasted all the yellow highlighter. I suppose the highlighter ran dry by the time Birkholz's name appeared. Yes, he was Michele Bachman's former pastor. Birkholz is close buddies with Mark Jeske. Birkholz is the adviser for Jeske's Grace In Action subversivness organization.

Bill Mier...I spoke to him in person last Sunday. He did a Kingdom Workers presentation for our adult members. I have high respect for those WELS members who involved with Builders For Christ. Builder's predates Kingdom Workers, yet Kingdom Workers controls Builders and other groups. These people are not fancy Church and Change types. They tend to be older adults who work for food and a place to stay.(some have RVs)

Oh, I happen to be a member of my church's evangelism committee. We REFUSE to use those gimmicks presented by Church And Change Evangelism workshops. Keeping the church clean and having the pastor speak with all new guests are common sense.

Long-story-short, Mark Jeske is a the top of all that is evil in the WELS. You may refer to my previous comments concerning Jeske.

In Christ,
Rebecca

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God,

Take some time to read through the posts on this site re UOJ. Then/or compare and contrast what Bivens said...

"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens

...with what Luther said:

"If I now seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the cross, for I will not find it given there. Nor must I hold to the suffering of Christ as Dr. Karlstadt trifles, in knowledge or remembrance, for I will not find it there either. But I will find in the sacrament or the gospel the word which distributes, presents, offers, and gives to me that forgiveness which was won on the cross" ("Against the Heavenly Prophets" AE 40:214).

I'll stick with Luther. He wasn't an Enthusiast.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God said,

"No one is saying that everyone is saved whether they like it or not,..."

AZ/CA District President Jon Buchholz is:

In contrast to the “Jesus Saves” churches, we don’t preach a salvation that is incomplete and just waiting for the sinner to do something to complete the transaction. We proclaim boldly, “Jesus Saved,” past tense, finished, certain."

http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BuchholzJustification.pdf 

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

still hung up on capitalization huh? too bad.

anyways, to DP Buckholz's paper:

I agree with what he wrote. thank you again for leading me again to a well written paper. Reread the first half of the paper and it is quite clear is isn't an advocate of everyone is going to heaven whether they like it or not. He said that salvation is not "waiting for the sinner to complete the transaction." What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Sola Fide, Sola Gratia statement to me. Sounds like a defense against the synergistic ways of the reformed church body to me. Does not sound like he is advocating all are saved but that Christ completed the work on Calvary. There is nothing more that you or I can do to complete the work. It is done.

DP said on pg. 7 part 1. "There is one justification; it is an objective, universal reality, completed by Christ at Calvary, and appropriated subjectively through faith." How do we read this and the rest of his paper and continue to think he is advocating all are saved and will go to heaven.

Can you not see what he said in the quotation? He is stressing how the work of Salvation is done, that's it. Christ's saving work is done. Nothing more to do. And this salvation is ours through faith.

DP Buckholz has made this clear more than several times in his paper.


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GJ - Har. Har. You cannot spell the name of a DP correctly. I suggest that you go to a good school and learn the basics of English. You are the poster-child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Google search is your friend. Or just read the tag on his shirt in the graphic.

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Thanks for the clarification KC. Yes, there are too many Mark's, Marcus's, and Holz's in the WELS.

In Christ,

Rebecca

Son of Oral Roberts Arrested on DUI Charge - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com. Filled with the Holy Spirits. Edit a Hymnal?

Son of Oral Roberts Arrested on DUI Charge - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com:

Richard Roberts, the son of the late evangelist Oral Roberts, was arrested Tuesday for allegedly driving under the influence of alcohol.
   
An Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper stopped the 63-year-old just past midnight driving 93 miles per hour in his Mercedes-Benz.

According to the arrest report, Roberts failed a breathalyzer and field sobriety test.

The officer "detected the strong odor of an alcoholic beverage about Roberts' breath and person," the report said.

Roberts served as president of Oral Roberts University for 15 years before stepping down in 2007.

He currently hosts a nightly television show called, "The Place for Miracles: Your Hour of Healing."

"Our prayers go out to Richard and Lindsay Roberts and their entire family as they face this life challenge," ORU officials said in a statement. "May God's grace help them as they work towards healing."


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