This is starting to put things, around me, in a certain perspective.
What does this mean, to laity, who signed, those deemed non members?
What exactly, is being done & what are those who stand fast & firm, in for?
Heidi Stoeberl
What does this mean, to laity, who signed, those deemed non members?
What exactly, is being done & what are those who stand fast & firm, in for?
Heidi Stoeberl
Heidi,
I'm not sure, frankly, what this means. I have spoken to the synod President about this. It is my understanding that each District President will handle this in his own way.
I can say this much: I have had dozens of contacts from Pastors around the synod who have said they are not going to change the way they preach and teach, namely, that we justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace. To a man, they have deemed this debate "an argument over words." Ovbiously, Pastor Rydecki does not see it that way, and neither does the CoP. So, exactly how this will play out in the end - God alone knows. Again, I say, let Pastor Rydecki explain his position thoroughly and completely, and let the Pastors and people "test the spirits." (First John 4:1)
Thank you.
Pastor Spencer
I'm not sure, frankly, what this means. I have spoken to the synod President about this. It is my understanding that each District President will handle this in his own way.
I can say this much: I have had dozens of contacts from Pastors around the synod who have said they are not going to change the way they preach and teach, namely, that we justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace. To a man, they have deemed this debate "an argument over words." Ovbiously, Pastor Rydecki does not see it that way, and neither does the CoP. So, exactly how this will play out in the end - God alone knows. Again, I say, let Pastor Rydecki explain his position thoroughly and completely, and let the Pastors and people "test the spirits." (First John 4:1)
Thank you.
Pastor Spencer
Just to remind everyone, I was perfectly willing and even eager to continue studying the doctrinal issues with my brothers in the WELS in order to determine if it was all just "an argument over words." I wasn't the one condemning people as false teachers or calling on them to repent for their teaching on justification. Not once. It was the WELS leadership that determined I was the false teacher and called on me to repent for teaching that sinners are only justified through faith in Christ. So at this point, if one believes that it was all "an argument over words," then what will he do with the WELS COP that has condemned a man (and divided a congregation) over a simple matter of words? It seems to me that one cannot sit on this fence for too long.
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GJ - Note the quibbling nature of the words used in Pastor Spencer's response. Error loves ambiguities.
Justified freely by grace - this is the phrase used to market UOJ. "Freely by grace" is redundant.
Why not justified by grace? Buchholz and the UOJ leaders have declared war on the Biblical doctrine of justification by faith.
If they agree with Paul - the original Pau, the Apostle - they would say, to a man, "We reject forgiveness without faith. We reject universal absolution without the Word of God."
Let's look at the entire brief confession:
We justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace.
Justification by faith is forgiveness. Justification by faith is salvation. Therefore, this brief confession is rather addled, even for WELS. Jon-Boy Buchholz has written that the entire world is saved, period, finished, completed. This is constantly reiterated by the UOJ chorus, with pastors saying, "I was saved 2000 years ago." By that they mean - the entire world was pronounced forgiven and saved when Jesus died (or when He rose). They have not figured out the Moment of Absolution, but they are working on it. (Watch Notre Shame pressers for tips on how to finesse the truth.)
The fact remains, there is no grace apart from the Means of Grace. This WELSian brief confession lets everyone see it both ways, and the quibblers are intending to leave that false impression. The UOJ crowd says, "Ah. Everyone is forgiven. If we believe in UOJ, we are saved."
The normal, un-brainwashed believer says, "There is justification by faith, and grace, and the Means of Grace. Everything is fine."
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Pastor Spencer states, “we justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace.”
This is classic UOJ speak. UOJ teaches the whole unbelieving world has been forgiven all sin and justified before and without faith in Christ – before and without receiving Christ as Mediator through faith alone – before and without obtaining Christ as their Propitiation through faith alone. Therefore the false gospel of UOJ teaches that the whole unbelieving world has been received into God’s grace, redeemed and reconciled to God without faith in Christ alone. UOJ teaches that Grace forgives – without the Means of Grace and faith therefore isn’t the righteousness of Christ by which men are forgiven – it only saves. UOJ teaches the forgiveness of sins is not eternal salvation for the unbelieving world which has already been declared forgiven, guiltless and righteous.
Faithful Wittenberg Confessor Hunnis rejects this teaching:
THESES CONCERNING THE HUBERIAN UNIVERSAL JUSTIFICATION OF BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS
Thesis 1
Huber professes such a justification, for the sake of which Christ has properly, actually and practically conferred redemption on the entire human race in such a way that sins have been equally remitted to all men, including the Turks101, and that all men (including unbelievers) have received remission of sins, and that the whole human race has, in actual fact, been received into the grace and bosom of God.
Thesis 2
Hence he says that all those to whom the Gospel is proclaimed are to be called "elect, justified by God, sanctified, redeemed," and some of these are said to be "believing and converted."
Thesis 3
This universal justification of the entire human race he considers (even without respect to faith in Christ) to be fully completed 102, sins having been remitted on account of the satisfaction made by the Son of God and swallowed up in His own blood and wounds. These things he says concerning his justification.
Thesis 4
He was pleased to correct this foul and disgusting error in the first legal proceeding before the commissaries. But what he was at that time thought to have vomited out, he swallowed up again in his later writings, which his own reply to the Heidelberg Articles as well as a response to the censure of the Tiibingen theologians shows in the page markings in the upper margin.
Hunnius
Thesis Opposed to Huberianism
Translated by Rev. Paul Rydecki
Available from Amazon.com
