Friday, October 18, 2013

Joe Jewell, WELS, Identifies the Synodical Tactics.
Daniel Baker FB Summary of Convention



http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/10/service-review.html#comment-form

Joseph Jewell said...
Unbelievably immature. (Both the service and whoever flooded the voting overnight. Not even very subtle, but then the contempo advocates rarely are.)

A one-vote-per-IP policy wouldn't be a bad idea. It's still possible to beat that, but it takes a little more effort and is slower. A vote-with-your-name poll would be even better, but would of course get fewer responses.

It strikes me that the general trend in WELS these days seems to be geared towards the suppression of groups (even ephemeral groupings of folks on one issue) not created by the WELS itself, in response to the Time of Grace memorial last year, which of course acquired a long list of names and thus laid out in an un-ignorable way how big a problem that situation was. Now the policy is no more than three names on a memorial (unless, of course, it comes from a WELS committee like the TEC, and then the entire committee can be referenced), which has the effect of making "private" memorials appear to be the musings of a lone crank or a small minority, and I think also has the effect of reducing lay participation in the memorial process (if you can only put three names on your memorial, why "waste" one of them on a mere layman?)

Imagine how many signatures an anti-NIV2011 memorial would have gathered. I think it would have overwhelmed even the number that the Time of Grace memorial received, and it would have been an unmistakable signal to the convention delegates that they were not, in fact, required to choose from among only the options in the TEC's false dichotomy (i.e. would you like to approve NIV2011 only, or NIV2011 and some other stuff?) and that there was substantial support for that position. Instead we had a surfeit of anti-NIV2011 memorials, with only slight differences, each with just three signatures. Much less impactful and dilute--I have to hand it to whatever Machiavellian came up with the idea of limiting the signatures.

It is no coincidence that the powers-that-be eviscerated the grassroots memorial process in this way prior to pushing through the NIV2011 monstrosity.


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  • Here's a summary of the WELS Convention's translation issue:

    1. We approved all translations of Holy Scripture for use in our publications (the "eclectic approach").
    2. We gave NPH sole discretion to decide what translations to use.
    3. An overwhelming majority (over 3/4ths) voted against a Confessional Lutheran translation.

    Some general observations:
    Opposition to a "Confessional Lutheran Translation" seemed to be overwhelming. There were even a number of speakers and a proposed amendment to strike "Confessional Lutheran" from the Resolution.
    The outgoing editor of NPH was on the TFC, which supported and recommended NNIV.
    NNIV is clearly on the list of NPH options, and prior to an amendment was the first on a short list of three options for their use.
    Sem. Profs made it clear that the result of the "eclectic approach" would be settling on just one translation - by "herd" decision, as one pastor and televangelist delegate put it.

    As such, it seems clear to me that we are far from out of the NNIV woods.
    Like ·  · 
    • Angela Gawel Al's not here to translate anymore. I think I get the gist but sometime I will have to have someone explain it:) just one question ... What would Alfred think of the outcome?
    • Daniel Baker He would probably have mixed feelings like the rest of us.
    • Paul Rydecki More like, you are deep in the heart of the NNIV forest.
    • Intrepid Lutherans Been thinking about this for several minutes after Committee 22 completed (and I posted this, below, too). Initially hopeful after last night's vote on Resolution 1 from Committee 21, the defeat of Resolution 1 from Committee 22 makes Resolution 1 of C...See More
      lolcatbible.com
      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly. This is the lolcat Bible Translat...See More
    • Timothy H. Buelow Still trying to find a positive take, I do believe that we were earlier in this position: Prove to us why we shouldn't just keep using NIV (even if it's a different animal) and now we are in this position: Prove to me which Bible we should primarily use. And NNIV supporters are now under the burden of proof they didn't have before.
    • Paul Rydecki Tim, what difference is there between the two positions in practice? Who has to prove anything anymore to anyone?
    • Intrepid Lutherans Yeah, that's the other side of this. Minds still need changing. The outcome of this Convention certainly means that the issues of translation will continue to be debated. I suppose that's a good thing, for the many who yet need to be taught, and for others who need (and are willing) to have their minds changed. I, for one, am growing weary... -DL
    • Daniel Baker As am I. The number of "nice speech, but I think Luther believed in a balance of dynamic and formal equivalence" comments I got was mind-boggling.
    • Paul Rydecki Rather than further debate, I think these decisions turn translation into a non-issue ad infinitum.
    • Timothy H. Buelow Repeatedly, people said this was a 5-7 year solution. So during the next 5-7 years, the debate and sorting will continue. That gives people like me, for example, the chance to promote NKJV, which wasn't even on the table before. It also gives people time to rethink opposition to ESV, because it gives pastors the implicit approval to maybe switch to ESV for Sunday readings, etc.
    • Intrepid Lutherans When you come up with a plan to promote the NKJV, let me know. That's my choice, too. Maybe an organized effort of some sort is needed....-DL
    • Timothy H. Buelow Paul, as long as pastors have to wrestle with answering their confirmation parents question of which Bible to buy their kids, this will never be a forgotten non-issue.
    • Daniel Baker Someone said (I think it was you, Pr. Buelow) that Zondervan also purchased the NKJV? What would the feasibility of our own "contemporization" of the KJV be?
    • Intrepid Lutherans Thomas Nelson, publisher of NKJV, was purchased by Murdock -- the same guy who owns Zondervan...
    • Paul Rydecki The average pastor will answer that question, "Whatever Bible translation NPH chooses to use for our synod's catechism." I don't see it going any deeper than that for the majority of pastors.
    • Timothy H. Buelow There are partially updated versions of the KJV available as public domain for anyone who wants to use them as a base for further revision.
    • Timothy H. Buelow But NKJV is not being revised anymore. It's set.
    • Timothy H. Buelow I believe the synod is free to, and hopefully will, use more than one translation in the Catechism. That is in fact what the ELS catechism does.
    • Steve Spencer Since ALL translations were approved for use, this means that the NNIV was approved - that's the bottom line. This makes WELS more "progressive" (i.e. liberal) than the ELS, LCMS, and Southern Baptists. Now, that is really going to help our outreach - right?! ;-} Thus, we decided - once again - not to decide; except to reject our President's suggestion. Can we say, "Lame Duck?!"
    • Timothy H. Buelow Well, Steve, we voted to say no to our seminary president. That's not a small thing.
    • Intrepid Lutherans And now with another bright side, here, perhaps. Leaving open the option, now, for NPH to use NKJV, means that they can also begin republishing older works that use(d) the KJV with minimal redevelopment cost... -DL
    • Paul Rydecki The synod is now free to do what NPH wants. Does anyone doubt that a good percentage of catechism passages will be taken from the NNIV, thus essentially promoting it (even if others may also be represented)?
    • Steve Spencer Good point, Tim. Still, if I were the ELS I'd be very nervous. At least they REJECTED the NNIV for use. And, what prevents Mequon from requiring the NNIV for use by the students? I'll give you odds that this is exactly what happens.
    • Intrepid Lutherans NPH has TWO potent sources which drive their editorial decisions. One is Synod. The other is the consumer (the laity,principally). Boycott efforts DO work... Without pressure from the consumer, however, no I don't doubt that they will use NNIV exclusively.
    • Paul Rydecki That's one thing that caused great confusion at this convention. "Loyalty to the synod," which is the chief deciding factor in, I dare say, most cases, became ambiguous, because synod president promotes Option 2, while seminary president promotes both...See More
    • Jerome T. Gernander The ELS has always left it up to congregations. The NKJV is used in the Hymnary, which for me gives it precedence. However, the ELS catechism committee very unwisely chose not to follow that, and uses PREDOMINANTLY the old NIV, a very bad choice, in my...See More
    • Paul Rydecki To me, it appears that Wendland outmaneuvered Schroeder.
    • Intrepid Lutherans All of Wendland's allies seemed to be vocal at key times on the Convention floor, that's for sure. There were lot's of them there, too.
    • Daniel Baker Well as I just heard in the lunch line, it's not too late to form a relationship with Zondervan. Perhaps a future rendition of the NIV.
    • Timothy H. Buelow The rejection of NNIV as an exclusive translation was not much of a possibility two years ago. Now it has happened because lay delegates were given the information they needed in most districts. That is a huge development and points to a rising awarene...See More
    • Paul Rydecki Tim, if the majority (certainly the vocal majority) of the seminary professors, including the president, weren't so vociferously advocating dynamic equivalence, you may have gotten some traction on that suggestion. But if I had the power to make guarantees, I would guarantee you that there will not be a rising up of opposition to the synod's own seminary. Will never happen. Not ever.
    • Timothy H. Buelow Paul, you sound a little like "I, even I am the only one left" who would ever consider that my professors' opinions are just that. When we were at sem, there was always debate whether, for example, Kuske's take on the hermeneutics of typology was "the only right way." And you could always play one prof off another. I have two boys there, so I know this takes place.
    • Timothy H. Buelow Further, Paul, you also know there is a spectrum between formal and dynamic equivalence. I personally like Holman's "optimal equivalence."
    • Paul Rydecki It was the absolute inability to even question the opinions of professors that has led to my fortuitous (though unintentional) departure from the synod. I would be happy to be proven wrong about this synodical handicap, but so far, history supports my prediction.
    • Intrepid Lutherans Among the clergy, I would tend to agree with Rev. Rydecki, based on my limited and informal experience locally. Even those who know better seem to be reticent to vocalize opposition to Synod in any form, especially if that means they might be critical ...See More
    • Paul Rydecki Since I mentioned Orwell's 1984 the other day, "If there is hope, it lies with the proles."
    • Intrepid Lutherans Yeah, sounds like Marx, too.......
    • Joe Jewell "...we voted to say no to our seminary president. That's not a small thing..."

      That's a good point--strong culture against this in the WELS! I got Faceblocked by a WELS pastor yesterday for suggesting that the Sem prez's "They all have flaws!" stateme
      ...See More
    • Intrepid Lutherans Maybe that's my problem, Joe. I studied too much science and mathematics in college, and expect a rigorous proof for all conclusions (which are "truth" or at least "fact" assertions).... -DL