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Franz Linden (Franz_mann)
Post Number: 1795
Bret Meyer writes:
Dr. Lito Cruz, "UOJers should realise that they share something in common with Calvinists, they share with them of lumping the Atonement with Justification as one and the same event."
This is nonsense! UOJ does not treat the atonement with justification as one and the same event. The atonement was necessary for the justification to take place. They aren't the same event, but they necessarily go together, like heads and tails on a coin.
It is the deniers of UOJ that are the Calvinists, because they drive a wedge between the atonement and justification, trying to separate heads from tails, as it were. They give a passing nod to the atonement, but the thing they really crave is justification, as though it could be obtained for us in any other way than the atonement that was made for the sins of all on the cross.
If you ask them how they can be certain that their sins are forgiven by God and that they stand justified, what answer can they give? They can't point to the cross, because they have already debased that act by their theology that so as to deny that it is a guarantee of their justification. Instead, they point to the Means of Grace, as if the Means of Grace do anything other than deliver to the sinner the very same forgiveness that was obtained by Christ at the cross for the sins of all.
This is Calvinist theology. It's been repudiated again and again by faithful preachers of the Gospel. Alas, it must continue to be repudiated until the end of time. Sometimes I wonder if Calvin might not be the AntiChrist. He's got almost as many people believing the same lie as the papacy.
Daniel Gorman (Heinrich)
Post Number: 2048
Rev. David R. Boisclair: "Mr. Gorman, the anonymous pastor is Rev. Paul A. Rydecki, formerly a pastor of the WELS. He was removed from the ministerium of WELS for the false doctrine of denying the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification."
Could you provide a link to an official WELS website that states that Rev. Rydecki was removed for "the false doctrine of denying the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification"? As far as I can tell, WELS has never publicly released the reasons for Rev. Rydecki's removal, the evidence against him, or any information on how he was tried and convicted.
ELDONA says that the pastor in question was removed because his statements were considered "inadequate" because they did not fully express certain formulations demanded by the church body. ELDONA may have based this opinion on Rev. Rydecki's public after-the-fact account of his trial and removal. If so, ELDONA should footnote Rev. Rydecki's account. ELDONA should ask WELS to verify the accuracy of Rev. Rydecki's account and then document WELS's response or lack of response.
Doug Andersen (Lutherman)
Post Number: 357
The WELS never acknowledges why they kick out pastors let alone document the reasons...
George Mueller (Mueller)
Post Number: 1055
That the WELS has treated pastors unfairly does not mean that Rydecki was treated unfairly. Rydecki taught false doctrine and the WELS removed him for doing so. The WELS was right to kick him out. [GJ - Reading SpenerQuest is like being stuck in a locked ward. Let me out!]
George Mueller (Mueller)
Post Number: 1056
Who is Dr. Lito Cruz? Is he a Lutheran? It doesn't sound like it. Lutherans, no less than Calvinists, teach the intensive perfection of the atonement. Is he denying that we do? [GJ - Who is GM? Is he really Rolf Preus? He knows as much as Rolf does!]