Check out - Seven Signs WELS is a cult.
So what now?
I'm frustrated and confused.
- It's clear that the WELS is drifting further and further away from true Lutheranism.
- It's clear that the WELS is drifting closer and closer to generic Protestantism.
- It's clear that WELS leaders are unable or unwilling to exercise discipline against those who introduce and promote false doctrine and practice.
- It's clear that the WELS is hostile to those who cling to true Lutheran doctrine and practice.
- It's clear that the WELS cares more about outward peace than true unity.
- It's clear that the WELS is decidedly anti-sacramental.
- It's clear that I could continue this list ad naseum.
What's not clear, though, is what to do now. Stay and fight a losing fight? Leave? Is there even a church body in which one can actually be a true Confessional Lutheran? If so, where is it? These aren't idle questions. I am truly struggling and I truly need your help.
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I would suggest ELDoNA. :-) :-D
Daniel Baker said...
ELDoNA or LCMS are your best bets. WELS is beyond all hope.
Anonymous said...
Do not cast pearls before swine. While the dust off your shoes as you leave. WELS is done. It is no longer Lutheran.
Matthias Flach said...
I appreciate your suggestions. At times I have looked longingly at both ELDoNA and LCMS, but I'm not convinced either is a good option. Regarding ELDoNA, I'm not sure I'm convinced that their position on justification is the correct one. Regarding LCMS, it's true that they are slightly more tolerant of Confessional Lutheranism than WELS, but they are also plagued by every error of the WELS and even more.
Vernon Knepprath said...
Regarding justification, consider this. The teaching of justification is being changed with time:
Catechetical Helps, Erwin Kurth, Concordia, 1961, 1970. “This, then, is the central teaching of the Bible that all who believe receive forgiveness of sins and are justified before God, not by works, but by grace, for Christ’s sake, through faith.”
This We Believe, Gurgle, Northwestern Publishing House, 2006. “We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends.”
... or this
Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, Edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 1956.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”
Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, NIV Edition, originally edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 2nd Printing 1989.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”
Luther’s Catechism, David P. Kuske, Northwestern Publishing House, 1982.
253. How many people did God declare righteous? “God declared all people righteous (Objective Justification).”
Are all of these statements with regard to justification in harmony? If not (and I think not), why are they being changed? More importantly, how can they be changed and still be faithful to Scripture?
Consider the 'Means of Grace'. The Means of Grace are the Word and the Sacraments. The Holy Spirit works through the Means of Grace. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, offered through the Means of Grace are faith and forgiveness. If all are forgiven, then what purpose does the "Means of Grace" serve?
Catechetical Helps, Erwin Kurth, Concordia, 1961, 1970. “This, then, is the central teaching of the Bible that all who believe receive forgiveness of sins and are justified before God, not by works, but by grace, for Christ’s sake, through faith.”
This We Believe, Gurgle, Northwestern Publishing House, 2006. “We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends.”
... or this
Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, Edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 1956.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”
Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, NIV Edition, originally edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 2nd Printing 1989.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”
Luther’s Catechism, David P. Kuske, Northwestern Publishing House, 1982.
253. How many people did God declare righteous? “God declared all people righteous (Objective Justification).”
Are all of these statements with regard to justification in harmony? If not (and I think not), why are they being changed? More importantly, how can they be changed and still be faithful to Scripture?
Consider the 'Means of Grace'. The Means of Grace are the Word and the Sacraments. The Holy Spirit works through the Means of Grace. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, offered through the Means of Grace are faith and forgiveness. If all are forgiven, then what purpose does the "Means of Grace" serve?
OCP said...
I don't know that there are better options out there. Matthias, I agree with your assessment of ELDoNA and LCMS, so I don't see those as realistic alternatives.
I'm not sure that WELS is quite to the level of hopelessness you fear. Yes, there are issues, but we should expect issues within any visible church. We should expect that the devil will work even harder among us than in the world, so I'm not surprised when there are issues, and I don't see any greener pastures over any other fences. I don't see overt doctrinal issues within WELS, and I do within every other visible church I've seen. My answer has been to continue to talk, continue to listen, continue to struggle, continue to work to address the issues that plague us. I will do what I can in the church at large, but I can have real effect in my own congregation. I teach, train, instruct, educate, as much as possible. I address these issues proactively in my own congregation, and within the Synod as much as I am able.
It may not be a perfect answer, but in a sinful world, I believe it's the best I can do. Come quickly Lord Jesus!
I'm not sure that WELS is quite to the level of hopelessness you fear. Yes, there are issues, but we should expect issues within any visible church. We should expect that the devil will work even harder among us than in the world, so I'm not surprised when there are issues, and I don't see any greener pastures over any other fences. I don't see overt doctrinal issues within WELS, and I do within every other visible church I've seen. My answer has been to continue to talk, continue to listen, continue to struggle, continue to work to address the issues that plague us. I will do what I can in the church at large, but I can have real effect in my own congregation. I teach, train, instruct, educate, as much as possible. I address these issues proactively in my own congregation, and within the Synod as much as I am able.
It may not be a perfect answer, but in a sinful world, I believe it's the best I can do. Come quickly Lord Jesus!
Daniel Baker said...
I think the LCMS is more than a little tolerant of Confessionals. The main advantage they have, though, is the fact that there is the quantity of Confessional Lutherans in their midst, whereas the number is almost nonexistent in the WELS (at least per their fruit, which is the only standard of measure we can use anymore, since even the CoWo fanatics claim to be "Confessional" in some sense.
The simple fact is that I don't know of a single WELS parish that looks like the description of a Lutheran parish given by the Lutheran Confessions - one abiding by the historic celebration of the Mass in all its glory, retaining all the propers, lections, vestments, and other like things, one that regularly offers private confession, one that faithfully makes use of, teaches, and urges toward the Means of Grace, etc.).
As for the ELDoNA, I agree with them on justification, so obviously I find that attractive. God does not declare the everyone righteous outside of faith. But I won't get into a UOJ debate here.
The simple fact is that I don't know of a single WELS parish that looks like the description of a Lutheran parish given by the Lutheran Confessions - one abiding by the historic celebration of the Mass in all its glory, retaining all the propers, lections, vestments, and other like things, one that regularly offers private confession, one that faithfully makes use of, teaches, and urges toward the Means of Grace, etc.).
As for the ELDoNA, I agree with them on justification, so obviously I find that attractive. God does not declare the everyone righteous outside of faith. But I won't get into a UOJ debate here.
 |
| Grace alone, NIV alone, But without faith - WELS mottto, Mequon training. |
It would seem that the only people willing to comment, and stand by those comments without Kilcreasing them, are in agreement with the stated condition of the WELS.
The one thing a few of us contend is that the WELS holds to a false gospel as taught in their doctrine of Universal Objective Justification. No better time than the present to discuss and establish whether or not that doctrine is in harmony with Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.
Not only is it a supreme endeavor to confess, discuss and defend the chief article of Justification whenever possible, but it also serves to clarify your options when considering 'So what now?'
If WELS is wrong about their doctrine of UOJ, and I contend that it is, then the LCMS and ELS are also wrong and the majority of churches in their fellowship which adhere to it would be out of consideration for 'So what now?'. Individual confessional churches who teach Christ's chief article faithfully and who are affiliated with those synods would be a consideration as well as independent confessional churches and ELDONA.
As I mentioned to a friend this morning, the doctrine of Justification is the most important topic of confession, discussion and contention in the history of the world. Why not address it here where individuals have already stated their God given desire to adhere to Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions?
I appreciate the opportunity to comment.
In Christ,
Brett Meyer
Matthias -
Two things briefly:
1.) If you are a WELS Pastor, have you discussed your assessment with your CP, DP, and SP? I'm not suggesting any "18 & 8" violation, but one of the things that is important in WELS is for those with concerns to actually speak the leadership. This is the only chance for them to see that maybe, just maybe there are indeed real problems in our synod. If you are a layperson, have you confronted your Pastor(s) with your observations? Here again, this is an important and honest first step.
2.) This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation, but it would also help if you weren't semi-anonymous or using a pseudonym. As long as the vast majority of WELS critics are nameless and faceless, their statements will carry no weight at all. Of course, even if they are known - as the Intrepids were - they will carry only very little weight. Still, going public would seem to be the Biblical way to go. Just saying.
Two things briefly:
1.) If you are a WELS Pastor, have you discussed your assessment with your CP, DP, and SP? I'm not suggesting any "18 & 8" violation, but one of the things that is important in WELS is for those with concerns to actually speak the leadership. This is the only chance for them to see that maybe, just maybe there are indeed real problems in our synod. If you are a layperson, have you confronted your Pastor(s) with your observations? Here again, this is an important and honest first step.
2.) This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation, but it would also help if you weren't semi-anonymous or using a pseudonym. As long as the vast majority of WELS critics are nameless and faceless, their statements will carry no weight at all. Of course, even if they are known - as the Intrepids were - they will carry only very little weight. Still, going public would seem to be the Biblical way to go. Just saying.
Brett Meyer said...
Anonymous asks, "What does the atonement accomplish in your view, Brett?"
The atonement was Christ's complete and full payment for the world's sins. The sins of the whole world were laid upon Christ as the perfect and sinless sacrifice and He paid the all sufficient price for them. Therefore all righteousness resides in Christ alone.
He alone is the propitiation for sins through the gracious gift of the Holy Spirit's faith in Christ alone. He alone is Mediator between the Father's wrath over sin and sinful man through the gracious gift of faith, Christ's righteousness.
The doctrine of Universal Objective Justification teaches that Christ has propitiated the sins of the whole unbelieving world (been apprehended as their propitiation) such that God has declared the unbelieving world justified, guiltless and forgiven all sin. All without the gracious, Holy Spirit worked gift, of faith in Christ alone worked solely through the Means of Grace by which Scripture teaches man can obtain Christ as Propitiation and Mediator.
Scripture:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 3:25-26 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
A person cannot, at the same time, be both declared justified by God and declared condemned by God.
Thanks for your question.
In Christ,
Brett Meyer
The atonement was Christ's complete and full payment for the world's sins. The sins of the whole world were laid upon Christ as the perfect and sinless sacrifice and He paid the all sufficient price for them. Therefore all righteousness resides in Christ alone.
He alone is the propitiation for sins through the gracious gift of the Holy Spirit's faith in Christ alone. He alone is Mediator between the Father's wrath over sin and sinful man through the gracious gift of faith, Christ's righteousness.
The doctrine of Universal Objective Justification teaches that Christ has propitiated the sins of the whole unbelieving world (been apprehended as their propitiation) such that God has declared the unbelieving world justified, guiltless and forgiven all sin. All without the gracious, Holy Spirit worked gift, of faith in Christ alone worked solely through the Means of Grace by which Scripture teaches man can obtain Christ as Propitiation and Mediator.
Scripture:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 3:25-26 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
A person cannot, at the same time, be both declared justified by God and declared condemned by God.
Thanks for your question.
In Christ,
Brett Meyer
