Saturday, February 8, 2014

David Virtue Hands It to the Episcopal Church, In Fellowship with ELCA, Which Is in Fellowship with LCMS-WELS


Episcopal Church Attempts to Reimagine Itself

An open letter to The Episcopal Church's Task Force on reimagining the Church for the 21st Century

By David W. Virtue 
www.virtueonline.org 
February 8, 2014

NEWS BRIEF: In 2012, the General Convention created a taskforce to reimagine The Episcopal Church for the future. The members of the Taskforce want to hear the memories, hopes and dreams that people have for The Church. We are trying to reach as many people as we can over the next few months. We will use what we hear to help us shape recommendations for The Church's structure, administration and governance. 

Dear Task Force Reimaginers

I want to take this moment to thank you for this wonderful opportunity to re-imagine (or is that reinvent) The Episcopal Church for the coming centuries. I would like to offer you my thoughts on this momentous occasion of reimagining, and, hopefully, inspire generations to come with churches that have not been sold to evangelical start-ups, Sharia driven Mullahs, saloon keepers (Mrs. Jeffferts Schori's favorite) or furniture outlets. (A free pew will be offered for every bed sold if Raymour and Flanagan buys a cathedral or two, I am told.) They could start with the closed cathedral in the Diocese of Delaware.

It's been some time since I re-imagined anything really. I am too busy living in the real world of Episcopal saints (very few) and Episcopal sinners (very many) to give a whole lot of thought as to what The Episcopal Church will look like 50 years hence. It's a daunting task so the best I can do is offer you some oh so humble reflections on The Episcopal Church of the Future. You will forgive me if I pour a double scotch and grab the hem of what's-his-name's garment to pray and plead for wisdom.

First of all, I want to admire you for your tremendous insights into suing for properties that you technically never built nor paid for. Due to the Dennis Canon, you have been able to grab a hold of and keep them. No matter that even when you get them, they are pretty well empty so you are forced to sell them off. What makes this so stunningly brilliant is that you had to spend nearly $70 million (it could be more before this "imagining" process idea is over) to recoup properties that you turn around and have to sell.

I can't imagine what $70 million plus would have done to plant new churches, hire evangelists, and get the word out that "Jesus is Inclusive"...come as you are...you don't even need to be baptized...we are a church for everybody. After all, it's not like you are screaming "Jesus Saves." God forbid. That is far too narrow an understanding of Him who stands over the universe and accepts you just the way you are with no questions about change at all.

I am trying to imagine a church where anything goes but nobody shows. I mean, what's wrong with people? Here we are offering up the Church of What's Happening Now, no hindrance to openly practicing gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, queers, Intersexuals (whatever they are) and anyone else who might wander through the red doors. In the meantime, 6800 Episcopal parishes are slowly shriveling and dying. It beats me. Americans are simply not grateful for all the freebies The Episcopal Church is offering.

I mean, look how effectively you have gotten rid of all those horrid evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics, (in truth fundamentalists) in the church, and filled Episcopal pulpits with sodomites and trannies, the most inclusive people on earth but people are still not showing up. What the hell is the matter with people? Clearly, the word is not getting out so my first suggestion is that you consecrate even more gay and lesbian bishops, pay them $150,000 a year plus all the church's benefits, and get them to hit the media trail to get the word out. Clearly, Gene Robinson has not been as successful as he should have been and might need a smack on his bottom for failing. I'm sure you can find someone to administer that and it should be recorded on video for posterity (if you'll pardon the pun.)

A second thing you should do is to simply toss out the 1979 Prayer Book (it is sooooooo passé) and replace it with Bishop Jack Spong's 12 Theses. He is so with it that young people will eat it up, if they can only recite those theses each Sunday. What a gift to the church. I am sure Beyonce could bounce her bottom to some lyrics and I am doubly sure that top rapper and hip hop music artists like Boyz N Da Hood could really go to town on those Theses. Just give them a chance. It may require a little more "imagining" than you thought, but it is clear you are desperate. Desperate times demand desperate measures.

Then you need to take Charles Bennison, the former Bishop of Pennsylvania's brilliant suggestion, that men wrote the Bible, therefore they can rewrite it. I am surprised this has not been picked up by the powers that be, especially as they seem to be doing a pretty good job reimagining most of the texts in the Bible on sexuality to make them fit the times we live in.

The Episcopal Church could invoke the memory of that well known and much beloved President Thomas Jefferson who cut out all the bits in the New Testament about transcendence and the miracles of Jesus to make it more palatable to Americans.

My final suggestion is that you sell the church's national headquarters in New York City for $60 million and give all the money to the poor as the final act of "reimagining." I can't think of a more generous act by the Church culminating in all the years the church has pled and bled for the poor and fought against unknown racists and homophobes. For such an act of generosity I believe it only appropriate that the Presiding Bishop be awarded an honorary doctorate from the prestigious Oxford University.

My prayers are with you.

END

National Anthem - Goosebumps and Wavering Monitor Effect




Published on Feb 7, 2013
Every night of the All State Choir conference at about 11pm, everyone comes out to the balconies of the 18 story Hyatt hotel to sing the National Anthem :

Louisville, Kentucky

One Professor of Theology


There is one Professor of Theology we should and must pay close attention to. He is far beyond any other and judges all others. But still, He brings us great comfort, so much that we long to hear even more. He gives us a better witness about the Father and Son than we could ever find from other professors. 

If you admit it, He is the one who first brought you to faith. He is the Holy Spirit at work in the Word of God. He is so good that we never tire of His teaching and long to grow in our understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

Source: fifty years of studying Luther and the Scriptures.

Help Finance the Murder of Millions of Unborn Babies - "Concerned."
Dare to Criticize WELS, ELS, or LCMS - Banned for Life.

The Olde Synodical Conference is waking up, slowly, but still in denial.
How many ads has Thrivent bought for the ELS?
Will the WELS-ELS-ELCA-LCMS combine continue?

http://www.evangelicallutheransynod.org/thrivent-financial-neutrality-policy-concerns/

Thrivent Financial Neutrality Policy Concerns

On February 6, 2014, Thrivent Financial for Lutherans announced a “Financial Neutrality Policy” regarding funding of charitable organizations. Thrivent now categorizes abortion and homosexuality as merely “social issues,” while we continue to regard them as moral/doctrinal issues at odds with the Word of God. We remain "deeply concerned" with these new developments and urge Thrivent members to contact the company with their questions and concerns.

Thrivent, a non-profit fraternal benefit society, has no "official" connection with the Evangelical Lutheran Synod. You may read the new policy here:https://service.thrivent.com/forms/thriventchoice/neutrality.html

#Thrivent

Read about WELS Dealing with the Murder of a Pastor's Wife


Someone wanted documentation about the murdered pastor's wife (WELS). I have a link to the news story. Read it if you want to be sick to your stomach.

Bizarre Story Unfolds in Murder Case, Milwaukee Journal, September 2, 1978.

How is this different from the Roman Catholic bishop, who was praised by the prelates for always protecting the known criminals, keeping them from ever being punished.

The story has Pastor James Schaefer, Mischke's best pal from seminary, editor of the Northwestern Lutheran, Director of Public Relations, doing the same for WELS.

WELS took Tabor in as a pastor - with his parish, knowing he was a serial adulterer. When the police asked for files on Tabor, Schaefer explained to me and Mrs. I during lunch, "The folder was empty!" I found out from being in Cape Girardeau that Tabor fathered a child there, too, and Roger Zehms baptized her (as Roger claimed himself). William Bischoff knew all about the case, and he knows people wrote letters opposing Tabor being taken into WELS. They did, but the folder was empty, as Schaefer admitted  - or bragged.

Destruction of evidence in  a murder case is a felony.

Al Just
When Al Just murdered his wife, WELS organized a busload of idiots to support Just in his hour of need. The daddy of the current First VP of WELS testified for Al Just's good character at the trial. The last time I wrote about Just, who was found guilty, I was warned not to do so. This may be a motive - Just married his children's babysitter once his wife was out of the way.

Joel Hochmuth
SP Mark the Bookkeeper told the synod they had no idea what Hochmuth was doing, but the police record shows they did. Hochmuth had been caught before by his wife, and went into counseling. SP Schroeder would not answer if the WELS agency provided the ineffective counseling.

SOP
In the LCMS, destroying evidence in molestation cases is standard operating procedure. The facts could cost them millions of dollars.

Will the Timid Lutherans Follow the SynCons Down the Drainpipe?



The haughtiness of the SynCons is matched only by their dishonesty. Although the ELS, LCMS, and WELS loathe e one another, they mutually protect their Pietistic myth--whenever it is threatened.

Thus WELS and Missouri really dislike like Christian News, but they are always on the phone to get Otten to spin their bad news - and he obliges. I have been at his office when faxes from such people as ex Concordia president John F. Johnson were rolling in, when phone calls were coming from various officials.

When I wrote that the SynCons have as much of a problem with abusive, homosexual clergy as the papists, Otten went to the front page to express their outrage and post his abject apology for publishing my review of the Randy Engels Rite of Sodomy book, an article where I pointed out some of the facts about LCMS-WELS cover-ups. WELS seemed especially upset.

Shortly after that, the FBI raided WELS headquarters and found hundreds of man-boy rape graphics in the desk of Joel Hochmuth, the Public Relations Director of the sect. Hochmuth admitted to swapping child porn files with other felons. Moreover, Hochmuth and SP Schroeder had jointly published a letter denouncing ELCA for their support of gay rights.

But I am the bad guy. SP Harrison, aka Matt the Fat, ordered his lobbying group, Steadfast Lutherans to wipe out the thread on the convicted sex felon that Missouri put into a parish to rape again.  Matt commanded, and they erased - so Steadfast they make my head spin. All the copied material is still on this blog.

Timid Lutherans still support:

  • Mark the Bookkeeper, who is little more than Jeske's executive officer; 
  • Matt the Fat, who props up Paul McCain at CPH
  • Pope John the Malefactor, distinguished sect destroyer (his own).

No matter how bad these apostate leaders are, their betrayed constituents still support them. The "conservative" members are told that the brave leaders are fighting hard against the liberal elements, so they must not criticize or say anything that might offend Holy Mother Sect.

After decades of being warned against Thrivent (and predecessors) and ELCA (and predecessors), the LCMS-WELS-ELS combine is still happily spliced to both. For pity's sake - even the sainted Richard Neuhaus had problems with AAL/LB. The WELS answer was to kick out pastors for questioning AAL's relationship with the money-grubbing leaders.

Now all three are stuck with Mark Jeske and the Planned Parenthood/Thrivent scandal. But the Timid Lutherans will find a way to excuse this too, and life will go on. The idea is to find a scandal that Lutherans have no power to address and cluck tongues over tat.






Thursday, February 6, 2014

We Know Mark Jeske Lives Change or Die!
So Thrivent Is Decidedly Neutral


Yes, neutral - that is the word.
If ELCA's Bishop Elizabeth likes it, A-OK.

Thrivent Makes Changes to Outreach Programs

February 6, 2014
Background: Thrivent Financial is sharing news that it will be making changes to its outreach programs following a comprehensive, organization-wide review. Programs being changed include: Thrivent Choice, Care Abounds in Communities, Thrivent Action Teams, Thrivent Communities, Thrivent Gift Multiplier, Thrivent Volunteers, Employee Giving Campaign and the Thrivent Financial Foundation.

After a comprehensive, organization-wide review, Thrivent is making changes to its outreach programs, including those designed for use by its members, chapters, employees and advisors. These changes are designed to better reflect its identity as a membership organization of Christians united in a common purpose to be wise with money and live generously.

Thrivent's outreach will support a variety of organizations, including Christian congregations and schools, that strengthen our communities and reflect the shared values of our members, advisors and employees. The focus of this outreach may change from time to time to reflect the priorities of its dynamic organization and membership.

As a membership organization of Christians, Thrivent works with many different members who hold a variety of – and at times divergent – views and beliefs. To respect these differences, Thrivent is also putting in place a new neutrality policy to guide decisions for outreach funding. This policy will exclude a small number of organizations and issues that distract, or have the potential to distract, from the common purpose of Thrivent and its membership.

Thrivent will begin implementing its new neutrality policy effective immediately, and program changes will be implemented over time. Members, advisors, employees and organizations that may be affected by specific program changes will receive communication as these changes are implemented in the weeks ahead. Thrivent wishes to thank all who have offered their input into this review of its approach to its outreach funding and programs.

---

A Star Is Bored.
Mark/Avoid Jeske must reach out to other confessions, a mix of religions,
to achieve his manifest destiny.

Thrivent Financial Neutrality Policy

Thrivent Financial is a membership organization of Christians and works with many different members who hold a variety of – and at times divergent – views and beliefs. It respects the differences of its members and does not independently or on behalf of its members, advisors or employees provide outreach funding or support to organizations and issues that distract, or have the potential to distract, from its common purpose, which is to guide its members and society to be wise with money and live generously.

Under this policy, certain organizations are not eligible to receive outreach support or funding. This includes, but is not limited to, organizations with a primary purpose of providing services for or advocating positions either supporting or opposing certain social, politically partisan, or health and human services causes and issues, such as abortion, sexual orientation, or guns. Decisions regarding the application of this policy and the eligibility of specific organizations to receive outreach funding or support are made at the sole discretion of Thrivent's management team and are subject to change.



Catching Up with Brett Meyer on Ichabod - Five Years Ago.

Team Jeske is 100% behind Thrivent, since
Mark/Avoid Jeske is on the Thrivent Board of Directors.

Board Members

Brad HewittBrad Hewitt
President and Chief Executive Officer
N. Cornell BoggsN. Cornell Boggs
Board Member
Frank H. MoellerFrank H. Moeller
Chair of the Board
Kenneth A. CarowKenneth A. Carow
Board Member
Bonnie E. RaquetBonnie E. Raquet
Board Member
Kirk FarneyKirk Farney
Board Member
Alice M. RichterAlice M. Richter
Board Member
Mark A. JeskeMark A. Jeske
Board Member
James H. ScottJames H. Scott
Board Member
Frederick G. KraegelFrederick G. Kraegel
Board Member
Allan R. SpiesAllan R. Spies
Board Member
F. Mark KuhlmannF. Mark Kuhlmann
Board Member
Adrian M. TocklinAdrian M. Tocklin
Board Member

Contact our Board of Directors

To contact the Thrivent Financial for Lutherans Board of Directors, send a letter addressed to:
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
Board of Directors (or name a specific director)
Office of the Corporate Secretary
625 Fourth Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55415
The Corporate Secretary will collect the letters and forward them to the chairman of the board or to a specific director if named. Letters on the following topics will be forwarded as indicated:
  • A complaint relating to a specific product or contract: Referred to Member Relations.
  • A complaint relating to accounting matters: Referred to the Chair of the Audit Committee.
Get Adobe® Reader® (needed to view .pdf files)
Read this about Thrivent's idea of a leader to speak to their agents! Wow!

---


AN OPEN LETTER TO THRIVENT CEO BRAD HEWITT & THE THRIVENT BOARD OF DIRECTORS


To sign on to this open letter, sign the petition.

Dear Mr. Hewitt and Board Members,

I’m publishing this open letter to you with the hope that many will bring it to your attention, and in so doing give you the courage to do what is right.

Thrivent Choice
Thrivent made a mistake in 2013. Due to a decision to make Thrivent Choice giving “neutral”, you allowed an affiliate of Planned Parenthood to be approved as a recipient of Choice dollars. Thankfully, when there was an outcry from the faithful Christians you have as Members, you removed that organization from the program. Unfortunately, you also temporarily suspended 53 (or so) pro-life organizations. In doing all this, you have so far failed to address the root of the problem: your insistence on being equitable in what sort of organizations are allowed in the Choice program. This equal-treatment ideology can only go so far. The world demands “neutrality” in toto, but God limits it to only those things which truly serve your neighbor. You are a Christian organization, after all, and ultimately “must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

Please restore pro-life organizations to Thrivent Choice. Please establish rules that disallow pro-abortion organizations that operate contrary to God’s Word. The world – and even some of your Members – will clamor that it’s not fair to let pro-life organizations receive Thrivent Choice dollars while pro-abortion organizations cannot. But you are Christians, so I urge you to do what Christians ought to do. Allow money to go to the organizations that are doing the mercy work of Christ – that is, pro-life organizations – and bravely take a stand against those pro-abortion organizations doing the work of the devil, who is “a murderer from the beginning.” (John 8:44) The 5th Commandment is not an open question, nor is it neutral. You may lose some Members, but you will be doing the right thing.

Gift Multiplier
Thrivent has been making some other mistakes since at least 2006. You have been matching donations given by your employees to pro-abortion organizations through your Gift Multiplier program. This has resulted in Thrivent providing matching funds to pro-abortion organizations in the amount of at least $8484, for a total of $16,968 when the original employee donations are included.

From the perspective of the entirety of Thrivent’s giving, this is a very small amount. In fact, by reviewing Thrivent’s 990PF forms from 2006 to 2012, I can confidently state that there are a very small number of Thrivent employees who have been requesting matching funds for their giving to these pro-abortion organizations. Also, based on my study I can assure you that a vastly larger number of your employees give to pro-life organizations and ask Thrivent to match those gifts. This one-sidedness in terms of employee numbers is reflected just as one-sidedly in total dollar amounts given. This is not to mention the very large amounts given to pro-life organizations such as crisis pregnancy centers through your various Chapters (I have the last three years of Group 990PF forms, so I’ve seen the numbers).

It may be painful, but nevertheless I urge you to do this: Please establish a rule in your Gift Multiplier program that disallows matching for organizations that operate contrary to God’s Word. You may anger a small minority of your employees; they may even quit. But again, you are a Christian organization and you all are likewise Christians. Take up this cross, embrace this opportunity to confess the value of life in both God’s eyes and your own, and rejoice that you have been deemed worthy by God to suffer in this way.

Thrivent’s Aid in Christ’s Mercy Work
Thrivent has been doing much good for Christ’s Gospel and mercy in the world. Thrivent has been doing much for mothers and children, both born and unborn, through your charitable giving programs. You can do even more by taking a clear and definitive stand for life.

I hope that you will listen and take this to heart. Please understand that I’m not alone in desiring these actions from you. I hope you will hear from many, many more concerned Christians. I will be praying for each of you by name, that you will do the right thing and support Christ’s work of mercy and reject supporting the devil’s work of murder and lies. Please, in your Choice and Gift Multiplier programs, as well as in all of your Chapters, allow for funding of pro-life organizations and disallow funding of pro-abortion organizations.

Thank you, in Christ.
Rev. Michael Schuermann

WELS Facebook Evasions. Eighth Commandment and Matthew 18.
Forget Luther's Large Catechism.


lolling at the WELS over here
Like ·  ·  · 12 hours ago · 
  • Jim Schulz So he's a Michigan Lutheran Seminary grad?
  • Ethan Schulz yep, and spent some time at MLC
  • Jim Schulz Is his partner a gay cougar? He looks 20 years older.
  • Gregory L. Jackson He could have found plenty of action in WELS. I am shocked he left: videos, hymnal design, public relations at the Love Shack, and pastoral or teaching ministries.
  • Caleb Schmiege None of this is helpful to anyone.
  • Ethan Schulz I think reposting the article is helpful in that it shows how *not* to deal with a situation like this. It looks like Scott's pastor and other mentors in the WELS system hated both the sinner and the sin, and now they're paying for it in press like this.
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Caleb Schmiege Fair enough. We definitely have a long way to go as Christians in our understanding of the whole issue. I often see people flying into the devil's traps of total tolerance, complete insensitivity, or hate. None of these are God-pleasing or acceptable. I was more frustrated by the comments that seemed to make light of the situation.
    7 hours ago · Like · 4
  • Gregory L. Jackson WELS is not honest about its problems. Two men were caught in the act at the seminary, years ago. Both were ordained. Both got married. That is just one example.
  • Jake Gawel (And in swoops Gregory L. Jackson with a speculative story containing names he can't or won't recall). That's as sound of proof as me saying I saw you doing 'the act' on some dude in your hometown just last night. It's true baby, I saw ya.
  • Gregory L. Jackson I have names, and so do others who know about this and many other examples. But WELS is perfect and therefore perfectly snide about anything that detracts from this perfection.
  • Jake Gawel Hey pal, no one in their right mind would say that. However, I have two things:

    1) I did totally see you in 'the act' with that dude.

    2) Until you are perfect or know the answer to being the best human/Christian/confessional moralist, why don't you just tone down your awesomeness and read your Bible. 

    Here's a third, I guess:
    Would you be willing (and this is a serious undertaking, so answer carefully) to take the rest of your life and write down everything you believe (we all know it's perfect and inerrant) and that's what us WELSers will use as sacred text? We need ya, man, so don't leave us hangin' over here!
  • Gregory L. Jackson Given the number of children abused by WELS teachers and pastors, you are in no position to play the smart-aleck, Jake.
  • Gregory L. Jackson Your public relations director, Joel Hochmuth, had hundreds of files of man-boy rape at WELS headquarters and at home.
  • Jake Gawel Again, no proprietary information reporting the abuses. Do I have to do this again? (I saw you abuse a kid last night.)

    As for that guy - he got what he had coming to him, God-style. Were the churches records on abuse released to the public when the FBI took him down? You have knowledge of that stuff how?
  • Jake Gawel And I like that as a professional, confessional satirist, you are poo-pooing me. Hah! What's the saying about giving and not having the capacity to take...?
  • Gregory L. Jackson Jake, you are in the right sect.
  • Jim Schulz Get ready. It's coming. (And seriously, his lover looks like he could be his father. What up wit dat?)http://www.massresistance.org/.../par.../religion/index.html
  • Caleb Schmiege Mr. Jackson, the thing that troubles me the most is that it seems like you go looking for all the bad you can find. What has happened to your gospel motivation? Where is your passion for the lost? It pains me to see so much tearing down with very little building up. Do you take words and actions in the kindest possible way? The kindest possible way? You are in an influential position. I wish you would use it to point people to Christ.
  • Jake Gawel Mr. Greg (can I call you Greg?), I'm not looking to receive vindication from you about my spiritual or religious beliefs. I'm just asking for a little more journalistic integrity (read :: facts, names) and for you to put down what it is you believe in canonical form so we (WELS, ELS wrongdoers) can read it and see if there are massive errors we aren't already trying to fix.

    Every business, non-profit, synod, church body, religion, government, family or friendship features mismanagement to some degree or of some nature. If you had the CLC-GLJS (Confessional Lutheran Church - Gregory L. Jackson Synod), I'm sure even there, in that bright spot against the dingy WELS backdrop, there would be negligence and mismanagement.
  • Gregory L. Jackson Warning people away from abusive sects that cover up for rape and murder and the abuse of children - that is positive. Provoking the sophomoric rage of smart-alecks is also worthwhile.
  • Jake Gawel Pardon me, Mr. Jackson (I am for real). Still waiting for the Journalism 101 level facts and names here. Can you send me (us) the documents you have become privy to? As a WELS member, I probably have a right to at least see those...

    Your last sentence
    ...See More
  • Gregory L. Jackson Jake - ask about the murder of Mrs. Al Just and his marriage to his children's baby-sitter. Ask about Mrs. William Tabor, whose husband moved to a new call after she was plugged by his mistress in the parsonage. Ask about DP Ed Werner, who went to the...See More
  • Caleb Schmiege I meant positive as in directing people to forgiveness and hope in Jesus. Have you talked to the individuals in authority who handled those situations to understand why they did what they did? I cannot speak with authority about the situations to which...See More
  • Gregory L. Jackson Clever smoke-screen, Caleb. You would have made a good defense lawyer at Nuremberg.
  • Jake Gawel Asking for fairness against nameless accusations isn't "trying to be smart" (although you might see it no other way, which again is ironic), it's simply asking for facts. I appreciate the names. 

    Now, with those in the limelight and me not having seen
     my parole officer in years, can you give me some website where I can drum up these stories. Otherwise it might be like me saying..."So, Greg. You are gonna sit here on Facebook and tell me that you've never heard the tale of little Jimmy Zolinski and his abuse by the CLC-GLJS? It was so heinous his parents left the CLC-GLJS, but not before shooting their minister!"

    A fact site or police report would be greatly appreciated.
  • Gregory L. Jackson Keep braying, Jake. I know you didn't take the time to check anything out. You never would. That would take integrity and courage.
  • Gregory L. Jackson Don't Matthew 18/8th Commandment me when people are murdered and the synod covers it up. Try reading the Large Catechism, 8th Commandment. It's in the Book of Concord.
  • Jake Gawel All I asked for was a little guidance getting started in my search. I'm willing to do the leg work if you're willing to point me down the path. 

    In regards to your implication of having courage and integrity and me not having any...I'm ok with you saying that about me (though those who actually know me might stand for my character), but please don't imply that you have integrity. Look at what you do (here or on your blog), how you carry it out. That takes neither of those characteristics - we both know it's the easy way and that's why you've taken it.

    Now, uncovering and undermining parties which you believe to be personally responsible for terrible actions. That does take courage. I'll be willing to spot you on that if you help me get started down a path where I might one day be able to agree with you on the facts of those "crimes" (I only put crimes in quotations, because I haven't witnessed a police report on them, not because I wholeheartedly don't believe you that they took place).

  • Jake Gawel Oh sweet, sweet diversional tactics. 

    I am glad you put that there, because I would have no way to get that out to an audience (oh wait, we are on Facebook...). But back to the meat and potatoes, if you have knowledge of these events and know where yo
    ...See More
  • Caleb Dietrich Greg...I don't know you nor am I going to do any research on who you are or what you do:fact. You are who you are and believe what you believe:fact. Jake has both integrity AND courage: fact. No one is perfect:fact. Every organization has flaws because...See More
  • Gregory L. Jackson Talk, talk, talk. Check out the facts and report back. Anyone can post on FB, as you two have shown.
  • Caleb Dietrich You're funny man. I don't honestly care what you say. So go ahead. Post something so you can feel as though you got the lAst word in. Or don't... I don't care
  • Gregory L. Jackson Says Caleb, trying for the last word.
  • Jake Gawel Anyone with fingers or an AAC machine can run a blog or indeed post on Facebook (I used by (sic) forehead to write this whole thread...). 

    Until you produce websites, your points (which I remind you, started with a gay, ex-WELS member) remain here-say (sic), just like little Jimmy Zolinski and the CLC-GLJS. Please back up your talk and produce websites where police reports can be examined empirically. You could even start by stating what states each incident was reported in and I can see if they have a CCAP system like Wisconsin....
  • Kyle Bence Aahhh, yes... I miss seeing stuff like this. This is what I love about you jake. You make ignorant and dumb people (aka Greg) look like a moron. I love people like this. 

    I picture Greg as Harry Potter. A man who lives under a stairwell, and posts ignorant statements on Facebook. 

    Congrats Greg! You've won the award for biggest jackass of the day.

***

GJ - Does anyone wonder why people are leaving WELS in droves? They snark over murder and sexual abuse, pretending it is contrary to the Word of God to discuss their felonies.

They pulled their thread, which I anticipated.

Luther on public sins, such as when a murderer or abuser is convicted by his peers:

284] All this has been said regarding secret sins. But where the sin is quite public so that the judge and everybody know it, you can without any sin avoid him and let him go, because he has brought himself into disgrace, and you may also publicly testify concerning him. For when a matter is public in the light of day, there can be no slandering or false judging or testifying; as, when we now reprove the Pope with his doctrine, which is publicly set forth in books and proclaimed in all the world. For where the sin is public, the reproof also must be public, that every one may learn to guard against it.