Terrible Advice from WELS Circuit Pastor Steve Spencer

"Tell us how you really feel, Anonymous WELS Pastor."

From The Polluted WELS Blog

tlcsvaz@orthodoxlutheran.info said...
Matthias -

Two things briefly:

1.) If you are a WELS Pastor, have you discussed your assessment with your CP, DP, and SP? I'm not suggesting any "18 & 8" violation, but one of the things that is important in WELS is for those with concerns to actually speak the leadership. This is the only chance for them to see that maybe, just maybe there are indeed real problems in our synod. If you are a layperson, have you confronted your Pastor(s) with your observations? Here again, this is an important and honest first step.

2.) This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation, but it would also help if you weren't semi-anonymous or using a pseudonym. As long as the vast majority of WELS critics are nameless and faceless, their statements will carry no weight at all. Of course, even if they are known - as the Intrepids were - they will carry only very little weight. Still, going public would seem to be the Biblical way to go. Just saying.
July 9, 2014 at 8:07 AM

[GJ - Confidential to Steve Spencer - Sign your name when advising against anonymity. That might mean more to the recipient.]

 ***

GJ - Given the Intrepid Lutherans track record of non-support for one of their own, this is the worst advice anyone could  give.

Pastor Paul Rydecki did all this, and DP Jon-Boy Buchholz kicked him out while promising the entire congregation that he (DP Jon-Boy) would continue discussing the topic of justification by faith. Next, Jon-Boy kicked out the congregation for rejecting UOJ and licked his canines at the conference, bragging how he was foreclosing on the congregation's mortgage.

Soon Jon-Boy was so far up Jeff Gunn's wazoo that he could see the bottom of Mark Jeske's feet. But I am sure the reports of Jeff sitting on Jon's lap at conferences are pure hyperbole.

The Intrepid Lutheran blog got interesting, so Steve Spencer quit the blog he started, saying it was not doing any good. He pronounced a pox on UOJ and JFBA. Very little has been posted since then, but there are two new posts by laymen.

The WELS Circuit Pastors are considered finger puppets of the District Pope. If they cease being finger-puppets, the DP gets rid of them by fiat.

The DPs and CPs know what is going on in WELS - and deny it when covering up, or laugh about it. Spencer must have jumped off the bus from Our Lady of Perpetual Obligation Convent School when he wrote that advice.

Sensible Advice
Your blog is great. Great title, great posts. Real discussion.

Make serious plans for life outside of WELS. You cannot continue in the cult when its corruption is so obvious.They will find you and kick you out. The WELS leaders will never stop unleashing their vindictiveness and venom on you and your family.

I have always said - clergy should have a second vocation. It is far better to work on the side and carry on with an independent congregation. And there are various options, certainly not in the ELS, but  in other places.

St. Paul made tents on the side, so he would not be a burden to his congregations. Clergy have worthless educations for getting another job, but they often have special skills they can use in the workplace. It is best to prepare beforehand and not wait until the force-you-out meeting happens with DP, his syncophant CP, or both - Dumb and Dumber.

If you want a friend in WELS, buy a dog. The WELS clergy are the worst back-stabbers on this planet. They will walk with a fiend to a cliff, then push him off and blame him for falling. Job's Comforters are still around. Those who suddenly become friendly and sympathetic are simply synod-minders, running to the DP so they can make a good impression.

May God strengthen you in leaving Plato's Cave. The view outside is much better.

Add caption

Add caption

Reliable.

Infallible.

---

Zank supported Ski's CRM and call - elected DP to replace Deputy Doug Engelbrecht.

000

Engelbrecht supported:
plagiarism,
 Ski,
Glende,
excommunicating a member for telling the truth,
and suing a member for telling the truth.
Mark Schroeder supported Deputy Doug.

Polluted WELS - Questions and Answers

Some Questions and Answers

Thanks to all who offered their advice and counsel on my previous post. In the comments, some of you asked some questions of me. Here are some answers:

Are you a pastor or a layman?

I am a WELS pastor. The only thing I've ever wanted to do is to be a Lutheran pastor. I took my ordination vows seriously. But I've found that the WELS doesn't have much tolerance for Lutheran pastors who take their vows seriously.

Why do you publish anonymously?

Because I'm a coward. And because I have a family to feed. I can guarantee you that if I attached my name to this blog, I would be kicked out of the ministry within a month. If you're a contemporary worship guy or if you have the right last name, you can get drunk at work, sexually harass your co-workers, and sue your members and be just fine. If you're a Confessional Lutheran without any connections, you can be removed for any reason or no reason at all.

Why don't you voice your concerns to and through the proper channels?

Here's a true story. I once told my DP that there were some vocal members of my congregation agitating for contemporary worship. His response consisted of two sentences: "Yes, I know, they've already talked to me about you. Have you ever thought of pursuing other lines of work?"

I got the message.

---

 Vernon Knepprath said...

Matthias,

If all you ever wanted to be was a Confessional Lutheran pastor, there is no reason for a synodical affiliation to get in the way. There are independent Confessional Lutheran pastors out there. Here is just one example:
http://notalone-saints.blogspot.com/

The way things are going, as you pointed out so well in your blog, there will be a growing need for more independent Confessional Lutheran pastors. Perhaps it is time to set up a network to serve this need, if there isn't one already. I suspect there are more like you out there.

Vernon

July 9, 2014 at 3:19 PM

Comment deleted

This comment has been removed by the author.

July 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM

 Anonymous said...

The CLC (Church of the Lutheran Confession as opposed to Concordia Lutheran Conference) and Protest'ant Conference might be two church bodies to consider down the road if you have not already done so.

July 9, 2014 at 4:00 PM

 Matthias Flach said...

Does anyone have any experience with the CLC? My impression is that they are very conservative, but not necessarily Confessional.

July 9, 2014 at 4:12 PM

 Matthias Flach said...

(Yes, there's a difference.)

July 9, 2014 at 4:12 PM

 Anonymous said...

I was a member of a CLC congregation for about ten years after I kicked myself out of my WELS congregation over Church Growth nonsense before I even knew there was a term for it. It brought back fond memories of all my best recollections of the WELS before the stuff hit the fan. Individual congregations may vary, but my impression is that the CLC takes confessionalism seriously. Check out Ascension Tacoma's site (lutherantacoma.com) and tell me which WELS pastor holds a Bible class to teach Greek to interested members, or who posts all the public domain tunes in TLH. Michael Eichstadt of Messiah, Hales Corners, is the SP. I would recommend contacting him.

July 9, 2014 at 4:33 PM

 Matthias Flach said...

By the way, this article describes what I'm talking about when I say that there's a difference between conservatives and confessionals:

http://hopelutheranfremont.org/motley/v3n1_a4.htm

July 9, 2014 at 4:57 PM

 Daniel Baker said...

From what I've investigated, CLC is basically conservative but not Confessional as has been stated (just like the WELS).

I actually agree with what someone said in an earlier comment about finding a local Confessional parish and sticking with it. I use LutheranLiturgy.org for that. A cursory search will demonstrate that the bulk of the parishes on there are LCMS. Also, after running a recent poll on Confessional Lutheran Memes, it was discovered that the vast majority of the followers of that page are LCMS. Most people in the Confessional Lutheran Fellowship group on Facebook are LCMS as well. Make of those facts what you will.

July 9, 2014 at 5:04 PM

 Anonymous said...

I feel you brother. I'm an anonymous coward too. I'm just trying to make my flock as Lutheran as possible before the day comes when I pissed off the DP too much and lose my WELS pension. They can keep it.
I just want to feed this flock. If I get kicked out now many will just assume the WELS is right. I have gotten some out of the blindness of synodalotry and into the Scriptures and Confessions, but I want to stick around and save as many as I can. So I'm keeping my head down and tending to my flock.
May the risen Lord Jesus, the Good Shepherd (and Samaritan) strengthen you and me with his Word and body and blood to be bold and unafraid to confess and suffer.

July 9, 2014 at 5:42 PM

 OCP said...

Matthias and 5:42 Anonymous,

My opinion is that there is more of us out there than you would think. You know how, in a congregation, there are always a handful of people who will complain about something very loudly, and when that happens, it's easy to overestimate their number. The ones who are supportive are often mature enough to refrain from gossip so they're pretty quiet, and it's easy to underestimate their number.

I think there is some of that in our Synod. There are the big name "celebrities," and many of them are the ones pushing Evangelicalism on our Synod. They have some very vocal supporters, so it's easy to overestimate their numbers. Because their supporters are so vocal, that can sometimes influence elections, and can influence those who get elected.

But like Nixon, I tend to think that there is a silent majority, who humbly and quietly serve their flock. They are not very vocal (and can too easily be "shouted down"), but they aren't really supportive of the creeping Evangelicalism. But because they are all so quiet, many of them (us?) feel like we're alone. They (we?) feel like we're standing against the tide, but there are more of us out there than we realize.

I think if there was some sort of a "leader" for our side of the aisle, we'd see how many our numbers are. But even that is difficult, because the silent majority doesn't feel right "campaigning" for a DP, or SP. So it's only the other side that does the talking.

This is my hope. Maybe it's optimistic to the point of being naive, but that's what I think. I believe that the Church Growth stuff, the Evangelicalism creeping into our Synod, I believe that these are fads, whose days are limited. As just one guy in a tiny corner of the Synod, I will so what I can to effect that. But more importantly, I will fulfill the duties of my call, and teach my congregation.

Anyway, that's what I do.

OCP

July 9, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Rumors of Rain. Snow Is Part of the Equation

Isaiah 55:8-11 King James Version

8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall My Word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Why do autumn leaves, left on the ground, disappear over winter?
Decomposition continues all winter, under the blanket of snow.

Others are enjoying rain today - or suffering from it - while we wait for the promised storms. My hometown area has flooded on both sides of the Mississippi.

America has lost its way because people are no longer close to Creation and the soil. Denominational leaders would rather sit down at the local Starbucks or the Velvet Lounge than stick a shovel in the soil that feeds them.

We think of rain in relation to good crops and abundant flowers, but snow is equally valuable. 

The blanket of snow, formed by the interlocking crystals:

• Keeps everything warm underneath. 
• Promotes winter decomposition because of  the bacteria that work and multiply in the cold, with plenty of moisture available to them.
• Melts in the spring to give all new growth a burst of life.

Bird life continues throughout the winter, because insects leave their larvae in the bark of trees and hidden in bushes. Blue jays tuck away their own supplies of acorns, which contribute to the growth of oak forests.

Springtail or snow flea.

Springtails work on decomposition all winter. Some ask, "Springtails? What are they?" That is the problem. There are more springtails on earth than people, but most people do not know these tiny insects exist.

Wikipedia:

In sheer numbers, they are reputed to be one of the most abundant of all macroscopic animals, with estimates of 100,000 individuals per cubic meter of topsoil,^[21]

Springtails contribute to symbiosis in their ceaseless labors. Each creature contributes to the food chain, eating and being eaten, predator and prey. 

Earthworms start small with a high protein diet of bacteria, which are mostly protein. From that diet they build their bodies, which are all muscle. Hard-nosed, they can burrow through anything. With tiny pebbles in their tiny gizzards, they grind up the soil they devour and make it finer. Their calciferous glands make the soil sweeter. Their kidneys add to the nitrogen compounds available to plants.

What Now? Asks Polluted WELS Blogger

Check out - Seven Signs WELS is a cult.

So what now?

http://pollutedwels.blogspot.com/2014/07/so-what-now.html

I'm frustrated and confused.

• It's clear that the WELS is drifting further and further away from true Lutheranism.
• It's clear that the WELS is drifting closer and closer to generic Protestantism.
• It's clear that WELS leaders are unable or unwilling to exercise discipline against those who introduce and promote false doctrine and practice.
• It's clear that the WELS is hostile to those who cling to true Lutheran doctrine and practice.
• It's clear that the WELS cares more about outward peace than true unity.
• It's clear that the WELS is decidedly anti-sacramental.
• It's clear that I could continue this list ad naseum. 

What's not clear, though, is what to do now. Stay and fight a losing fight? Leave? Is there even a church body in which one can actually be a true Confessional Lutheran? If so, where is it? These aren't idle questions. I am truly struggling and I truly need your help.

---

Anonymous said...

I would suggest ELDoNA. :-) :-D

July 8, 2014 at 7:57 PM

 Daniel Baker said...

ELDoNA or LCMS are your best bets. WELS is beyond all hope.

July 8, 2014 at 7:58 PM

 Anonymous said...

Do not cast pearls before swine. While the dust off your shoes as you leave. WELS is done. It is no longer Lutheran.

July 8, 2014 at 7:59 PM

 Matthias Flach said...

I appreciate your suggestions. At times I have looked longingly at both ELDoNA and LCMS, but I'm not convinced either is a good option. Regarding ELDoNA, I'm not sure I'm convinced that their position on justification is the correct one. Regarding LCMS, it's true that they are slightly more tolerant of Confessional Lutheranism than WELS, but they are also plagued by every error of the WELS and even more.

July 8, 2014 at 8:17 PM

 Vernon Knepprath said...

Regarding justification, consider this. The teaching of justification is being changed with time:

Catechetical Helps, Erwin Kurth, Concordia, 1961, 1970. “This, then, is the central teaching of the Bible that all who believe receive forgiveness of sins and are justified before God, not by works, but by grace, for Christ’s sake, through faith.”

This We Believe, Gurgle, Northwestern Publishing House, 2006. “We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends.”

... or this

Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, Edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 1956.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”

Doctor Martin Luther’s Small Catechism, NIV Edition, originally edited by C. Gausewitz, Northwestern Publishing House, 2nd Printing 1989.
261. To whom does God forgive sins? “God forgives sins to me and all believers.”

Luther’s Catechism, David P. Kuske, Northwestern Publishing House, 1982.
253. How many people did God declare righteous? “God declared all people righteous (Objective Justification).”

Are all of these statements with regard to justification in harmony? If not (and I think not), why are they being changed? More importantly, how can they be changed and still be faithful to Scripture?

Consider the 'Means of Grace'. The Means of Grace are the Word and the Sacraments. The Holy Spirit works through the Means of Grace. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, offered through the Means of Grace are faith and forgiveness. If all are forgiven, then what purpose does the "Means of Grace" serve?

July 8, 2014 at 9:01 PM

 OCP said...

I don't know that there are better options out there. Matthias, I agree with your assessment of ELDoNA and LCMS, so I don't see those as realistic alternatives.

I'm not sure that WELS is quite to the level of hopelessness you fear. Yes, there are issues, but we should expect issues within any visible church. We should expect that the devil will work even harder among us than in the world, so I'm not surprised when there are issues, and I don't see any greener pastures over any other fences. I don't see overt doctrinal issues within WELS, and I do within every other visible church I've seen. My answer has been to continue to talk, continue to listen, continue to struggle, continue to work to address the issues that plague us. I will do what I can in the church at large, but I can have real effect in my own congregation. I teach, train, instruct, educate, as much as possible. I address these issues proactively in my own congregation, and within the Synod as much as I am able.

It may not be a perfect answer, but in a sinful world, I believe it's the best I can do. Come quickly Lord Jesus!

July 8, 2014 at 9:10 PM

 Daniel Baker said...

I think the LCMS is more than a little tolerant of Confessionals. The main advantage they have, though, is the fact that there is the quantity of Confessional Lutherans in their midst, whereas the number is almost nonexistent in the WELS (at least per their fruit, which is the only standard of measure we can use anymore, since even the CoWo fanatics claim to be "Confessional" in some sense.

The simple fact is that I don't know of a single WELS parish that looks like the description of a Lutheran parish given by the Lutheran Confessions - one abiding by the historic celebration of the Mass in all its glory, retaining all the propers, lections, vestments, and other like things, one that regularly offers private confession, one that faithfully makes use of, teaches, and urges toward the Means of Grace, etc.).

As for the ELDoNA, I agree with them on justification, so obviously I find that attractive. God does not declare the everyone righteous outside of faith. But I won't get into a UOJ debate here.

Grace alone,
NIV alone,
But without faith -
WELS mottto, Mequon training.

Brett Meyer said...

You ask 'so what now?'

It would seem that the only people willing to comment, and stand by those comments without Kilcreasing them, are in agreement with the stated condition of the WELS.

The one thing a few of us contend is that the WELS holds to a false gospel as taught in their doctrine of Universal Objective Justification. No better time than the present to discuss and establish whether or not that doctrine is in harmony with Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.

Not only is it a supreme endeavor to confess, discuss and defend the chief article of Justification whenever possible, but it also serves to clarify your options when considering 'So what now?'

If WELS is wrong about their doctrine of UOJ, and I contend that it is, then the LCMS and ELS are also wrong and the majority of churches in their fellowship which adhere to it would be out of consideration for 'So what now?'. Individual confessional churches who teach Christ's chief article faithfully and who are affiliated with those synods would be a consideration as well as independent confessional churches and ELDONA.

As I mentioned to a friend this morning, the doctrine of Justification is the most important topic of confession, discussion and contention in the history of the world. Why not address it here where individuals have already stated their God given desire to adhere to Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions?

I appreciate the opportunity to comment.

In Christ,
Brett Meyer

July 9, 2014 at 6:50 AM

tlcsvaz@orthodoxlutheran.info said...

Matthias -

Two things briefly:

1.) If you are a WELS Pastor, have you discussed your assessment with your CP, DP, and SP? I'm not suggesting any "18 & 8" violation, but one of the things that is important in WELS is for those with concerns to actually speak the leadership. This is the only chance for them to see that maybe, just maybe there are indeed real problems in our synod. If you are a layperson, have you confronted your Pastor(s) with your observations? Here again, this is an important and honest first step.

2.) This is not meant as a criticism, just an observation, but it would also help if you weren't semi-anonymous or using a pseudonym. As long as the vast majority of WELS critics are nameless and faceless, their statements will carry no weight at all. Of course, even if they are known - as the Intrepids were - they will carry only very little weight. Still, going public would seem to be the Biblical way to go. Just saying.

July 9, 2014 at 8:07 AM

 Brett Meyer said...

Anonymous asks, "What does the atonement accomplish in your view, Brett?"

The atonement was Christ's complete and full payment for the world's sins. The sins of the whole world were laid upon Christ as the perfect and sinless sacrifice and He paid the all sufficient price for them. Therefore all righteousness resides in Christ alone.

He alone is the propitiation for sins through the gracious gift of the Holy Spirit's faith in Christ alone. He alone is Mediator between the Father's wrath over sin and sinful man through the gracious gift of faith, Christ's righteousness.

The doctrine of Universal Objective Justification teaches that Christ has propitiated the sins of the whole unbelieving world (been apprehended as their propitiation) such that God has declared the unbelieving world justified, guiltless and forgiven all sin. All without the gracious, Holy Spirit worked gift, of faith in Christ alone worked solely through the Means of Grace by which Scripture teaches man can obtain Christ as Propitiation and Mediator.

Scripture:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 3:25-26 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

A person cannot, at the same time, be both declared justified by God and declared condemned by God.

Thanks for your question.

In Christ,
Brett Meyer