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| "If you do not like Pastor Adam Mueller and the church council in dresses and make-up, you're gay." |
http://welsdocument.blogspot.com/2015/01/among-hidden-fear-of-speaking-out.html?showComment=1421942954270
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AnonymousJanuary 22, 2015 at 8:21 AMOne or two examples please.
Eine arme Schaf -
AnonymousJanuary 22, 2015 at 8:26 AMWhat I have experienced and others have experienced and what just about everyone I have talked to brings up on their own is "...You better be careful or you'll be shunned." or some other close cousin to the word "shunned". Literally everyone I have ever discussed something controversial with has said something along those lines and then told some story of how it happened to them or someone they knew.
Is that part of Seminary training or what?
Eine arme Schaf -
Seminary training does not prepare future pastors for the reality of problems and conflict during their calls. Seminary training leads future pastors to believe that they will be respected and deferred to whenever they engage in their Word & Sacrament ministry. Seminary training is often most successfully completed by men who do not necessarily have the requisite gifts for working with other people. Seminary training is, in the final analysis, graduate level theological instruction, not pastoral formation, which can only begin to occur after leave seminary.
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AnonymousJanuary 22, 2015 at 10:09 AMMr. Malach,
No doubt what you say is true. Yet it seems odd that every lay person seems to have had the same experience. Disagree with the pastor's agenda or take a position that is not popular with or in conformity with WELS central or might be slightly out of step within your church and especially if you say it where others may hear it. What happens - you are shunned, ostracized, ignored etc. It just seems odd that everyone has had or knows of someone who has had the same experience. Whatever the reason for it, it comes across as unloving, uncaring and frankly has the faint odor of either a spoiled child pouting or of a bully.
Surely some Pastors come out of Seminary with proper manners and some people skills?
Eine arme Schaf
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| UOJ Stormtroopers know how to fake contrition. |
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GJ - Howzacome is a Moline word for "why does."
GJ - Howzacome is a Moline word for "why does."
Private closed meeting with a buddy clergy and yesmen Elders presiding over matter. (The kangaroo court). The called worker describes what they did with light positive words and omits key details. The called worker describes what the other person did with exaggerated harsh sounding negative words. The buddy Pastor and/or yesmen Elders only takes the called workers story into account. Then the get lost script.
Called worker didn't do anything wrong according to scripture. (Make the person think they are crazy). BUT if you talk about it at all, then you are in violation of the 8th commandment. (Guilt trip) and be prepared for the consequences. (Fear of some unknown punishment)
Then some ad lib blah, blah, blah judgment against the layperson speaking up using vague terminology for sins. And ended with "forgive as Christ forgave you."
This is what happens when a called worker calls out a layperson.
Private closed meeting with a buddy clergy and/or yesmen Elders presiding over matter. (The kangaroo court). The called worker describes what they did with light positive words and omits key details. The called worker describes what the other person did with exaggerated harsh sounding negative words. The buddy Pastor and/or yesmen Elders only takes the called workers story is into account. Then the get lost script.
You did XYZ wrong. You cannot take communion or be in fellowship with the WELS until you agree that you did XYZ wrong. Then pay restitution to the called worker for the rest of your life by doing what ever he/she commands. Then some ad lib blah, blah, blah judgment against the layperson using vague terminology for sins. And ended with "it is the consequences for your sins."
Also note that documented evidence is not required for the called worker but it is for the layperson. This happens to some called workers lower on the totem pole too who speak up.