The Glory Has Departed

Lutheran book boxes sent to three African seminaries -
a third one has been sent now.

Norma Boeckler, Artist-in-Residence

The Lutheran Library Publishing Ministry

Bethany Lutheran Worship on
Ustream - Sunday, 10 AM Central Daylight Time.
Wednesdays Romans 1-5 in Greek

Saved worship files and Greek lessons are at the live worship link.

which works as too.

Luther's Sermons, Lenker Series
Book of Concord Selections
Martin Chemnitz Press Books

Norma A. Boeckler Author's Page

Pastor Gregory L. Jackson's Author's Page

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

Thursday, December 31, 2015

SpenerQuest Debates Working with ELCA Online Business for Fellow Stormtrooper Jay Webber.
Pastor Fran Was Embedded Before She Was Ordained

Mike Smith (Smithy)
New member
Username: Smithy

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Rolf, I did peruse the website but I've not read in depth though. I appreciate your answer and you make valid points.


I've read through the catalog, specifically through the M.Div program (pg 25) and it does appear that women are able to take the M.Div program but endorsement and ordination is left up to the student's denomination. Also, taken into consideration, this is a distance-learning institution and seems to teach the specifics of Lutheran theology but allowing the denominations to fill in their peculiar specifics.

On pg. 37, the STM degree Pr. Weber earned specifically states the student "...strive for advanced understanding of a specialized field...(or) a means for professional development"

Since Pr. Weber is in Arizona (right?), this school met his needs. I found the Mission Statement rather "vanilla" in that it is described as 'independent' meaning (to me, anyway) it doesn't affiliate with any Synod, conference, or identity outside or including the LCMS, it's just Lutheran theology, Lutheran Confessions, etc. I guess my thought is it's rather benign and not Unionism, per se, if one wanted to take advantage of the opportunity.
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Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8693
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 1:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Mr. Smith, check out the post from Rev. Steven Karp from yesterday afternoon. The ILT celebrates the ordination of women. The M. Div. degree is specifically to qualify one to serve as a pastor. The ILT promotes, advocates, and celebrates the ordination of women. They also put all of their students into the category of accepting the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching." This is a confessional statement. But does this institution actually accept the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching"? Clearly, not! They promote, celebrate, and endorse the ordination of women. And they bind together all their students, including the Rev. David Jay Webber as belonging to that group of people who accept the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching" and "confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ" and hold to other things in common.

One doesn't make common religious cause with the heterodox. This is unionism. One may avail himself of services and benefits provided by the heterodox as long as this doesn't entail joining them in making a common (heterodox) confession. If you were to compare what ILT says about its students to what other academic institutions, such as Yale, Notre Dame, and Marquette say about their students, you will find that an orthodox Lutheran may attend these other institutions without being identified with any sort of confession but cannot attend ILT without being identified with a misleading confession of heterodox faux-Lutherans pawning themselves off as a Bible-believing seminary, graduate school, and "faith community" (whatever that is).

Pastor Rolf David Preus
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Mike Smith (Smithy)
New member
Username: Smithy

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 2:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

"Pastor Hill has been working with Pastor Baltz in an embedded ministry arrangement while she matriculated at ILT. Embedded ministry allows students to put their theological education to immediate use in a congregational setting, while bringing forward into the classroom questions and concerns that emerge from the congregational ministry."

"Congratulations, Fran, on your ordination into the public office of Word and Sacrament! Thank you, Fred, for the wonderful worship service worthy of this glorious occasion!"


Boy, that just sucked all the air out of the room.

What Would Jon-Boy Buchholz say?
Brug has already written - WELS is not ready for women's ordination...yet.