The Glory Has Departed


Norma Boeckler, Artist-in-Residence

The Lutheran Library Publishing Ministry

Bethany Lutheran Worship on
Ustream - Sunday, 10 AM Central.


Advent Services - 7 PM Central Time in December.

Saved worship files and Greek lessons are at the live worship link.

email: greg.jackson.edlp@gmail.com,
which works as gregjacksonedlp@gmail.com too.

Luther's Sermons, Lenker Series
Book of Concord Selections
Martin Chemnitz Press Books

Norma A. Boeckler Author's Page

Pastor Gregory L. Jackson's Author's Page

Monday, December 28, 2015

SpenerQuest Reading Ichabod - And Hosting a Roast of Their UOJ Pal


Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


"Orthodox Missourians should mark and avoid ILT."

Would you also say this with respect to Notre Dame, Marquette, Yale, and a host of other academic institutions that embody ideological commitments to heterodox theological ideas, but from which conservative Lutherans in various synods regularly receive advanced degrees? Many of these institutions do also offer M.Div. degrees, according to the norms and expectations of their respective ecclesiastical affiliations and associations. Should Orthodox Missourians get advanced academic degrees only from St. Louis and Ft. Wayne?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8672
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


So ILT is now in the category of Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale? Before they have received accreditation? 

ILT is new. It is established to provide an alternative to existing seminaries. It has deliberately chosen to prepare women to serve as pastors. It is pretending to be an orthodox Lutheran seminary when it is devoted to heteropraxy. Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale have never made any pretense of being Lutheran.

Orthodox Lutherans will seek advanced degrees elsewhere.
Pastor Rolf David Preus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Doug Andersen (Lutherman)
Intermediate Member
Username: Lutherman

Post Number: 384
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 1:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


Isn't Jack Kilcrease also LCMS?

http://www.ilt.org/#!faculty/cxlk
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer)
Intermediate Member
Username: Fischer

Post Number: 455
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 4:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


"Isn't Jack Kilcrease also LCMS?"

There's no one with that last name listed on the online LCMS directory: LOCATE A WORKER
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer)
Intermediate Member
Username: Fischer

Post Number: 456
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 4:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


His "About Me" portion of his blog (Theologia Crucis) says:


quote:
I am a Lutheran layperson and an adjunct professor of theology at the Institute for Lutheran Theology and Aquinas College. I grew up in Oregon and attended Luther College in Iowa (B.A. History and Religion) and Luther Seminary in St. Paul, MN (M.A. Doctrine and Theology). I graduated in 2009 from Marquette University with a Ph.D in Systematic Theology. I am the author of the following articles: "Martin Luther and Bernard of Clairvaux on the Bridal Mystical Motif," (Journal of Ecclesiastical History) "Creation's Praise: A Short Liturgical Reading of Genesis and Revelation," (Pro Ecclesia) "Kenosis and Vocation: Christ as the Exemplar and Agent of Christian Freedom," (LOGIA) "Gerhard O. Forde on the Law" (Concordia Theological Quarterly). My systematic Lutheran Christology ("The Self-Donation of God: A Contemporary Lutheran Approach to Christ and His Benefits" preface, David P. Scaer) will be published in 2013 by Wipf and Stock Press. I am married to the historian Dr. Bethany M. Tanis (now Kilcrease).


So, as a layperson he may or may not be LCMS but he's not on the LCMS roster.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rick Strickert (Carlvehse)
Senior Member
Username: Carlvehse

Post Number: 6112
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 5:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


On October 2011, on his blog, theologia crucis, Dr. Kilcrease noted:

quote:
"I am a layperson in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and an adjunct professor of Theology and Humanities at Aquinas College in Grand Rapids."

But in a January, 2012, blog he states:

quote:
"I am a Lutheran layperson and an adjunct professor of theology at the Institute for Lutheran Theology and Aquinas College."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Doug Andersen (Lutherman)
Intermediate Member
Username: Lutherman

Post Number: 385
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 5:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


I'm pretty sure he is LCMS...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8673
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 5:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


He is LCMS. He's a good theologian. He's not ordained. [GJ - Rolf means - Kilcrease is UOJ and dumber than a rock - Jack cannot spell or write English.]
Pastor Rolf David Preus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Jay Webber (Djw)
Advanced Member
Username: Djw

Post Number: 816
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 5:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


"So ILT is now in the category of Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale?"

ILT is newer, less well-established, and is not yet accredited. But you were not talking about any of that when you said that Orthodox Missourians should mark and avoid it, presumably meaning that they should not study under its auspices. Are you saying that the obligation of marking and avoiding - and other applications of the doctrine and practice of church fellowship - are mollified or mitigated by the age or prestige of the heterodox academic institution in question? Would you say that an LCMS pastor looking to get an advanced degree should mark and avoid a newly-established Catholic-affiliated institution, which is in the process of getting its accreditation but has not yet received it, but that he need not mark and avoid Marquette or Notre Dame?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8674
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


This is what the ILT says in its Mission Statement:

"The Institute of Lutheran Theology is a Christian faith community, seminary and graduate school that rigorously equips faithful pastors, teachers and lay people to effectively proclaim the gospel and serve Christ's church throughout the world."

Institutional Learning Outcomes

ILT students will love, know and apply the Scriptures as the Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching.

ILT students will interpret the Scriptures as Law and Gospel in light of (as understood in) the Lutheran Confessional writings.

ILT students will recognize (saving revelation of God in Jesus Christ to engage the reality of the world in need) both the full revelation of Jesus Christ and the full reality of the world as essential for the theological task.

ILT students will exhibit a spirit of openness in theological discussion and interaction.

ILT students will confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only hope for the world.
Pastor Rolf David Preus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rev. Guillaume Williams Sr. (Revhardheaded)
Senior Member
Username: Revhardheaded

Post Number: 5276
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


Well then, if all that occurs any woman getting an MDiv. will certainly won't be seeking a call as a pastor, right?
The Rev. Guillaume J. S. Williams, Sr
God justifies the ungodly. Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8675
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


Students of ILT are equipped "to effectively proclaim the gospel and serve Christ's church throughout the world." They "love the Scriptures as the Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching," but these authoritative Scriptures do not forbid women to be pastors.

It is disingenuous to compare the ILT to such institutions as Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale. These institutions do not lay claim to a Lutheran identity, do not bind their students to a confessional commitment (that entails the promotion of women's ordination, inasmuch as it prepares women to be pastors), and do not say that their students "will confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only hope for the world." Anybody can get an advanced degree at Marquette, Notre Dame, and Yale, without subscribing to a doctrinal position such as the one required by ILT.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

I am not familiar with what Marquette, Notre Dame, and Yale say about what its students are being prepared to do, but I don't think it is to proclaim the gospel or to interpret the Scriptures as Law and Gospel in light of the Lutheran Confessions.
Pastor Rolf David Preus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Jay Webber (Djw)
Advanced Member
Username: Djw

Post Number: 817
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


So, the academic aspects of a liberal-slanted institution that consciously wants to be a part of the Lutheran tradition are to be avoided more vigorously than the academic aspects of a liberal Protestant institution (e.g. Yale) or of a Roman Catholic institution (e.g. Marquette or Notre Dame)? It almost sounds like you are advocating for a particularly strict version of the WELS doctrine of church fellowship here, applying church fellowship to virtual academic classrooms and not just to altars and pulpits in real congregations. And WELS doesn't even apply its own principles in such a strict way, since they have had professors get Ph.D. degrees at places like Marquette and Brandeis (which is Jewish).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf

Post Number: 8676
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


"Rev. Webber, was your ILT graduation in the context of a religious ceremony?"

Not really. It involved me, the Dean of Students who made a few remarks, and the Chairman of the Board who presented the diploma. It took place in a corner of the lobby area of a hotel in Bloomington, Minnesota. Very simple and very short. And then we went out to dinner.
Jay, am I to understand that you received a degree from this institution that prepares its students to make a certain kind of confession to the world? That you have joined with heterodox pro-women's ordination "Lutherans" in confessing together what this institution confesses? If so, were your ecclesiastical supervisors aware of this? Did they approve? Or, did they figure out a way to interpret this in such a way as to acquit you of responsibility for engaging in religious unionism?
Pastor Rolf David Preus
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Jay Webber (Djw)
Advanced Member
Username: Djw

Post Number: 818
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 6:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


I did not subscribe to a belief in women's ordination in order to attend or graduate from ILT. In fact, I explicitly expressed my rejection of women's ordination in my STM thesis. I assume that my thesis supervisor does not agree with me on this, but this had no affect on my academic status or grade. A place like Marquette or Notre Dame no doubt has a mission statement somewhere stating that they strive to maintain or embody the high principles and standards of Catholic higher education, or something like that. But this is not something that students or graduates are compelled to subscribe to.

--