|"Joe, I agree with you completely.|
That is why we in ELCA can work so well
with the LCMS, WELS, and the ELS.
We also say justified BY GRACE! through faith,
to express our UOJ."
Joe Krohn (Jester)
Post Number: 350
Ask any anti-UOJer what their view on Redemption is; Christ's chief office. I was taught that Christ redeemed me a lost and condemned creature as well as the rest of the whole human race. This gives me the assurance of my salvation and something for my faith to grasp.
I have had conversations with those who deny objective justification. They deny that anyone is redeemed aside from faith. Where is the comfort in that teaching? Where does it say this in scripture?
GJ - First, we have the typical tactic of the Left, the nightstick of negativism - "anti-UOJer."
I refuse to buckle under their torrent of neo-words.
Universal Objective Justification is a favorite of such dimwits as Valleskey and Bivens. UOJ is the newest version of Objective Justification or General Justification - all three terms meaning the same thing. But those terms (OJ and GJ) are only a little older. The Calvinist Woods used OJ and SJ in his translation of Knapp, the professor from Halle University - Pietism's Mother Ship.
So Objective and Subjective Justification are new terms from the 19th century; however, UOJ is even newer, from the 20th century - favored by WELS, it seems. OJ and SJ were used outside of Lutherdom first, and OJ is also found in various non-Lutheran denominations and sects.
Someone who favors OJ is really in sync with a host of apostate denominations, the yahoos on the National Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches.
Jester does not know or grasp his theological terms at all. OJ does not mean the Atonement, which some were led to believe. The Atonement and Redemption are synonyms - Christ dying for the sins of the world. OJ does not equal Redemption. Wake up and smell the airplane glue, Jester.
The difference with OJ/UOJ is this - both terms mean the entire world has already been pronounced forgiven and saved, without faith. The Bible does not record this, but that does not stop the blabbermouths from ranting about it, forcing congregations to "repeat after me" in sermons. Nor do they cease writing essays which say the same things while avoiding St. Paul, Luther, the Book of Concord, Chemnitz, Gerhard, and Gausewitz.
The real meaning of Subjective Justification is accepting (an act of the will, a decision, as in the Arminians) this world absolution happening without the Word, apart from the Means of Grace or the Holy Spirit, without faith. I have heard this Moment of World Absolution as the angelic pronouncement at the birth of Christ, at the death of Christ, or at His resurrection. Walther used his misunderstand of 1 Timothy 3:16 (like his syphilitic bishop and Rambach, another Pietist) to emphasize world forgiveness at the Resurrection.
|Jay Webber, trained by ELCA at the Institute of Lutheran Theology,|
favors Rambach over Chemnitz.
The three-headed guardians of Lutheran Pietism -
Mark the Mortician, Pope John, and Matt the Fatt -
agree with him.
Like ELCA, and certain misguided elements of the Missouri, the WELSians teach a quasi-Universalism. In the name of universal grace, they chase an Enthusiasm where the Holy Spirit's work in the Word is discarded in favor of their fantasy.
Jester uses an unnamed straw man. How convenient. Straw men - even more delicious. His accusation is false and slanderous.
"They deny that anyone is redeemed aside from faith." - Jester
All those who teach justification by faith necessarily believe in the universality of the atoning death of Christ, whether we use the terms Redemption, Atonement, Propitiation. Ransom, etc. In fact, there are two Greek terms for Redemption - one with the implication of being set free (loosed), the other with the implication of being bought for a price. These terms are the Gospel, the Treasure which the Book of Concord often mentions. Each and every one is used in Gospel sermons - something Jester might want to experience some day.
In contrast, justification is used almost exclusively for forgiveness, and that term always means justification by faith. No, it is not SJ, because SJ means faith in Universalism. Justification by faith in the atoning death of Christ on the cross. He has not only died for my minor sins, but also for great and terrible sins.
This Treasure lies in one heap until the Spirit distributes it through the Means of Grace, the Word and Sacraments. I am plagiarizing Luther rather than Bishop Stephan, STD. Who ever declared Stephan, Walther, Valleskey, and Bivens the last word on justification? Did those Pietists add a confession to the Book of Concord without telling the rest of us?