Conversation with Lawrence Otto Olson, D.Min., Fuller Seminary

"We cannot add anything to the Word, but we may be able to remove the human barriers which might be in the way of the Word." Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church,"
EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 3.

GJ – Larry, I am confused about your statement. You just said we can make the Word of God more effective by what we do. By the way, isn’t Evangelism a Church Growth publication?

"Make no mistake; I am under no illusions here. I fully expect to be publicly pilloried in print again. You will no doubt do so with some wit, with a good selection of quotations instantly imported into your world processor from your ready-to-go database, and with my own words twisted and used against me. So be it; I can live with that."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – Larry, all I have to do is quote you verbatim, in context.

"While I would not encourage it, it would not surprise me to see my name in some future writing of yours. If it does appear there, please use my given [underlined] name, Lawrence."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – Lawrence, I’m sorry. I forgot how touchy you were about your name. I decided to include your middle name, too. I think it adds a touch of class. You can call me Gregg. Or Dr. Jackson. Or Your Excellency.

"Please stop exaggerating the amount of study that I have done at Fuller. After four years of study at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, which involved sixty-two different courses and a year of vicarage, I graduated in 1983. From 1987 to 1989 I took four courses where I was in a classroom with a Fuller instructor. That is the extent of my Fuller coursework...In addition, I have taken two courses at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and one at the University of Wisconsin—Madison. Because of Fuller's liberal (would you expect anything else?) policy on transfer of credit, and because of two independent studies I undertook, I could complete the degree by simply writing a dissertation."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – Lawrence, I think you forgot something. Your paper was also part of your study at Fuller. I read it at the Martin Luther College Library in New Ulm. That was a requirement for a coveted D.Min. degree at Fuller. Calling it a dissertation is a bit much. The point is, you wanted a degree from Fuller Seminary. You wrote fawningly about meeting Don McGavran, a minister in the ultra-Left Disciples of Christ denomination. You and your friends in WELS have turned “mark and avoid” into “register and attend.”

"Contemporary social and behavioral sciences are a working out of the reason which God has given to humanity. Granted, the assumptions of some sociologists or anthropologists may be inconsistent with the Christian faith. That calls for discernment, but it does not invalidate the proper use of the social sciences by the church; it is, however, essential that they be used in a 'ministerial' manner."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 3.

GJ – Lawrence, the Scriptures judge all books. This comment from you seems to imply God needs man’s help to get the message across.

"While only the Word is efficacious, the methods we use to minister to people with that Word may vary in their effectiveness."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 2.

GJ – Lawrence, this is another contradiction. You have spent way too much time with Paul Kelm. He always starts out in one direction and then does a U-turn. Let me guess how effective your methods have been. WELS is flat broke, even with all the Schwan money. The seminary is shrunken down. The synod's membership has been going down ever since the leadership fell into the scrofulous embrace of Fuller Seminary.

"Donald C. McGavran died at home in Altadena, California, on July 10, 1990. He was 92 years old. Dr. McGavran is widely recognized as the founder of the church growth movement, a movement which has sought to put the social sciences at the service of theology in order to foster the growth of the church. In August of 1989 I borrowed a bicycle and pedaled several miles uphill up from Pasadena to Altadena. I found Dr. McGavran in his front yard with a hose in hand, watering flowers."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 1.

GJ – I can only imagine the thrill, Lawrence. Now that you have given up Lutheran doctrine for the Church Growth Movement, how much has it helped any denomination, especially the Lutherans?

"McGavran leaned toward me and said, 'The fields are white unto harvest. But you can't harvest a field of what with a penknife--you need a sickle, you need a scythe. Harvest intelligently."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 2.

GJ – That must have been a thrill, Lawrence. The late Donald McGavran spoke to you. I have one little question. If the fields are white unto harvest, why broadcast weed seeds everywhere?

"The church growth movement has made inroads into nearly every denomination in America. Once considered only the turf of conservative evangelicals, you will now find church growth practitioners in the United Methodist Church, in the Presbyterian Church in the USA, and among the Episcopalians. The LCMS has more pastors enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Fuller Theological Seminary, the seedbed of the movement, than are enrolled in the graduate programs at their Fort Wayne and St. Louis seminaries combined, and most of them include church growth as part of their studies."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, p. 1.

GJ – Lawrence, this sounds like gloating to me. I am glad you admitted that Fuller was the seedbed of the movement. You bought a lot of seed there, doubtless with the help of synod mission offerings. I know they really got behind training at Fuller Seminary for future professors, for world missionary types, and for the American missions people. Today they are bringing home the world missionaries, closing missions, and not starting American missions.

"When Frederick Horn faced that situation, the Holy Spirit moved him to accept the call, and for the last few years he has served as the [lay] Minister of Discipleship for Grace Lutheran in downtown Milwaukee." (Pastor James Huebner, Fuller alumnus)
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary,, "Another Kind of Minister, There's a lot to do in a church, and a staff minister can do a lot of it," The Northwestern Lutheran, March, 1994, p. 9.

GJ – Lawrence, one thing I have noticed from the Fuller crowd. As soon as they appear, there are ways to get around having an ordained pastor.

"To believe, teach, and confess that truth is not inconsistent with being able to recognize that one approach to ministry may be more effective than another. It is more effective to hold worship services at 10:30 am on Sunday than at midnight on Tuesday; this is true, even though it is the same Gospel that is preached at either time." [another example, preaching in German to an American audience]
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – I am sure this sounded good in the locker room at Fuller Seminary. The problem is, you have replaced the efficacious Word of God with foolish, man-centered methods.

"Faithfulness is the standard by which God judges those he calls into the public ministry. That faithfulness may or may not be 'effective' in terms of visible results; results are up to God, not us. But part of faithfulness ought to include striving to be as 'effective' as we can be in the methods that we use to take the Means of Grace to people."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – There you go again, Lawrence. This is another Paul Kelm U-turn. Man must work to be effective to rev up the Word. That is terribly Reformed and rationalistic. You must know that from your study at Trinity, Fuller Seminary, and wherever else you have collected weed seeds.

"To the best of my knowledge, only three WELS pastors have ever taken classes at Fuller Seminary: Reuel Schulz in the 1970s, and Robert Koester and I in the 1980s."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – Lawrence, that is very coy. You bragged in Evangelism about all the recruits Fuller has. Your favorite seminary even sent out a letter boasting about all the WELS pastors they trained. It was a boatload. Frosty Bivens, David Valleskey, and many others studied there. Norm Berg wrote to me that he studied at Fuller Seminary. So did a former professor at your seminary (Joel Gerlach). You are in denial, Lawrence. I collected 500 WELS Church Growth quotations from WELS-produced material. That did not happen by accident.

"You may reply that by 'Fuller-trained' you mean anyone who has attended a workshop presented by the Charles E. Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth, an agency which is independent of the Seminary. If that is the case, your attribution of 'Fuller-trained' is still simply not true. It would surprise me if even half of the two dozen people on your 'WELS/ELS Who's Who' list have attended a Fuller workshop; I personally know of only five who have."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "A Response to Gregory L. Jackson, Ph.D.," Christian News, 3-28-94, p. 23.

GJ – I see, Lawrence. Three turned into five once you thought about it. The ELS pastor who raved about Fuller was on their colloquy committee. Can you imagine anything more hysterically funny than a Reformed/Pentecostal trained pastor examining someone to see if he is fit to join the prestigious Evangelical Lutheran Synod? Wait, you can imagine something funnier: a Fuller trained WELS Lutheran, both denying and bragging about his D.Min. degree, teaching Reformed evangelism to Lutherans.

"But when our Lord told us what our mission should be, he was quite clear: 'Make disciples.'"
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Summer, 1988, p. 3. Matthew 28:19.

GJ – Lawrence, you and Valleskey and Gerlach love to manufacture disciples. The Reformed think they need to “make disciples.” The verse clearly means “to disciple all nations.” The object of the verb is “all nations.” The verb does not even imply “making something.” The verb means to teach, to bring someone into a learning relationship.