We went to Victory of the Lamb a while back. The irony of the whole scenario is that we stopped going to our normal place of worship because we felt it wasn't liturgical enough. I didn't have high hopes for VotL but my friend said, "Its kind of contemporary, but it's done right."
He couldn't have been more wrong.
I drove past another WELS church about three miles and arrived at Celebration Cinema and immediately had reservations. I walked into the lobby, smelling of old popcorn, and was greeted by Pastor Ben...more reservations. He invited us to grab a snack and a drink from the "Victory Cafe"...I was unsure because it was already after the time church should start but he invited us to bring it with us into Theater #1.
We walked in just as the praise band started.
Got to our chairs as people said hello to us and tried to carry on conversations (the first "hymn" was still in session). We awkwardly tried to sing along but gave up and mouthed the words. Then "Pastor" Ben invited us to greet each other. After the confession of sins which was somewhat normal...the rest of the service was contrived and awkward. We were unable to sing anything and people clapped after each praise band performance.
I was perturbed when the children left before the sermon, except for one who screamed loudly and the parents acted like they were in a movie theater--wait, they were. Zero transcendence at this point. "Pastor" Ben started his sermon which contained five lengthy stories--probably taking up 1/4 of his actual speaking time. The rest of his time was spent retelling those stories (using Abraham) and then retelling them again (using us) and giving us a "takeaway."
Then, the coup de grace was when he claimed that we need to be attached to the means of grace...didn't mention the Lord's Supper once...and said we "can remember our baptisms every time we wash our face in the morning..." (paraphrase)
After the service he gave a announcement about "Hallepalooza" and Soccer Camp. We got out of there as fast as I could.
They are having "success" - many of their families are from established congregations but there are a few large convert families as well (from the soccer camps)...however sowing seed in shallow ground often has early success. I can guarantee you, as a WELS Lutheran...I would not have communed there (as if it had been offered) and my wife and I did not feel the least bit edified.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Members Visit Victory of the Movie Screen:Ano...":
Anon@10:22
No the sermon did not center on the savior. The word "God" was used in stories about Abraham. The words "Jesus" or "Christ" were not.
As for the hymn, the entire atmosphere at VotL (along with other happy clappy churches) is a performance. When you take the people out of worship by installing a praise band no one can sing along to--no one sings(Koine is the obvious WELS exception).
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Members Visit Victory of the Movie Screen:Ano...":
As the writer/visitor states, I too, like many WELS members, are beginning to do what may be called Selective Fellowship. I do not think this is recognized by the leadership in WELS as a scriptural principal. I have heard it said "we do not practice selective fellowship. We either are in fellowship with our brothers or we are not." Those leaders who are not doing what the Bible tells us to do, with regards to those who cause divisions among us, have allowed laity to do it. That is simply to "Mark and avoid", which the laity are doing in a very quiet way.
I myself, having been in Greenbay not too long ago, found it quite a job of finding a sound Lutheran church in town. But I did. Web sites can tell you volumes of what a church is doing and you can save yourself the heartache caused by much of what is being done in the name Lutheran. Some people say, "step out of your comfort zone." I say, step into the light of discernment.
Bye, bye.
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Joseph Schmidt answered the howls of Joe Krohn here.
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GJ - Many of us have seen choir members, organists, choir directors, and acolytes in a cassock and surplice. I am so high church that I chant the announcements.
10 comments:
Again, more WELS decadence and pollution of the WELS. And WELS calls these pastors Christian leaders...leaders to what?...a never-land without Christ?
Who is we?
If it is not bait and switch, it is bait and hell. Followers may enjoy the ride, but not the destination.
I don't understand. Did the sermon not center on the Savior? Is there something wrong with Abraham? Wasn't there any confession or absolution? Is talking during a hymn sinful?
Whoopee, whoopee, whoopee.
Anon@10:22
No the sermon did not center on the savior. The word "God" was used in stories about Abraham. The words "Jesus" or "Christ" were not.
As for the hymn, the entire atmosphere at VotL (along with other happy clappy churches) is a performance. When you take the people out of worship by installing a praise band no one can sing along to--no one sings(Koine is the obvious WELS exception).
As the writer/visitor states, I too, like many WELS members, are begining to do what may be called Selective Fellowship. I do not think this is recognized by the leadersip in WELS as a scriptural principal. I have heard it said "we do not practice selective fellowship. We either are in fellowship with our brothers or we are not." Those leaders who are not doing what the Bible tells us to do, with regards to those who cause divisions among us, have allowed laiety to do it. That is simply to "Mark and avoid", which the laiety are doing in a very quiet way.
I myself, having been in Greebay not too long ago, found it quite a job of finding a sound Lutheran church in town. But I did. Web sites can tell you volumes of what a church is doing and you can save yourself the heartache caused by much of what is being done in the name Lutheran. Some people say, "step out of your comfort zone." I say, step into the light of discerment.
Bye, bye.
Hey Tim,
I think you and your church's approach to worship is conflicted. You say you're Lutheran but the casual "Hey man, bring yer coffee, bring yer pets, let the kids distract everyone else..." argues with that claim.
Lutherans believe that worship should be orderly and reverent--AND in a manner that sets worship apart from our secular lives, and the trappings of the world.
Many of your persuasion are blunt in their admission that they craft your style of worship service to be attractive or acceptable to the random unbelieving visitor. (I don't know if you'd claim that) Whatever the motivation, you and those of your persuasion have ended up with a worship service disorderly as a flea market and about as irreverent as a rock concert. (oh... wait...)
You thinks it's okay to let your kids be noisy and rambunctious in church? That sure sounds disrespectful (to God and other worshipers). I think you should bring your pets so Pastor Billy-Bob can bless them. You could start a dog walking ministry! Would you mind if I brought a spit cup to church? I can't have coffee without a nice big dip of Copenhagen Long Cut. Oooo Oooo or MAYbe you could get some Pinball machines in the sanctuary!
*Interlude to everyone else*:
Did you notice that Tim used the term 'secret shopper'? This is because he looks upon church as a business and doctrine as a commodity. He and his fellows Shrinkers approach evangelism with the savvy of Marketing gurus. They ask, "What is it that customer wants? What brand is going to sell best in this neighborhood? Should we use the Caucasian or the Black Jesus picture? We should do a focus group! Better yet, a Hallepalooza!". What more evidence is needed that the C&Cers refuse to acknowledge the Holy Spirit's power and role in conversion?
*End of Interlude*
The sarcasm comes from frustration at your inability to be honest. You are not Lutheran, and do not want to be. That's unfortunate, and we'd love to have you back on the straight and narrow, but we both know that's not happening. Churches that deny the Holy Spirit's power through the means of Grace are not Lutheran. You're business-model approach to Worship is a threat to your faith, Tim.
In the meantime, for the sake of everyone involved, please take a stance of honesty. Encourage your church and pastor to admit that you're not Lutheran and vote to leave the Lutheran church. I wouldn't want strangers to think you were "mind-numbing". Your church could write a grant for a new sign, with the word Lutheran left off. Don't be painted into a box by antiquated terminology!
Real Lutherans who subscribe to the Book of Concord don't like, need, or want you associated with our Church.
Make no mistake Timmy-boy, If churches and people like you don't leave the WELS we'll get ya. A separation needs to happen. Make the break or it'll be done for you.
Yeah, mention Koine, a band that's ripping off the work of brilliant, hard-working authors in the 16th Century and before cause they're so dense they can't come up with their own jingles. I'm sure the original authors would be proud.
Anon @ 10:24
That's a real mature response. What has the power to change man's heart? The WORD of God...whether you like the music or not, Koine is still using the exact same words of hymns (all of which are from CW, many of which have rich heritage and/or scriptural context).
The mention of them was that people can sing along. It is very easy to.
Would I have Koine perform at my church service? No, that isn't my personal preference. But they are a different animal from the many bands out there that "lead" worship no one can participate in.
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