WELS disciplined him by giving him world missionary oversight.
From the Top-Secret Church and Chicanery Listserve:
A more contemporary church leader and former president of WELS, Carl Mischke, once closed a WELS convention with words that I will paraphrase from memory, "We must examine everything we say and examine everything that we do so that more are saved."
Grace and peace from Hong Kong, John C. Lawrenz
[GJ - SP Naumann gave Church Growth its start, but Mischke was Kelm's finger-puppet for really backing the movement. Mischke supposed said Kelm could join any denomination he wanted. No kidding - Kelm loves every denomination except his own.]
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John,
That was pure gold - thanks
Don Patterson
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In closing my goal isn’t to change the way churches currently perform worship, I am just wanting to open up new churches that are outside of the outside of the box idea.
www.gotocore.com is a great ministry. I would encourage you to e-mail Pastor Ski who’s (sic) church isn’t even open yet, and no members. Ask him how much love he has experienced from his fellow brothers as they begin to launch into new un charted territories.
God Bless
Brian Arthur Lampe
CEO-ministries.com
[GJ - Real love--of God's Word and the Confessions--would have meant extending Ski, Glende, and Ash the Left Foot of Fellowship, so they could have become the Calvinists they always were. Why fund Reformed doctrine with Lutheran money?]
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2) A congregation may be in a "dying" community, such as a rural area or a small town. I wonder how many of our Michigan communities are "dying" right now due to this economy? If you have a small town where population is stagnant (no one moving in for the past 5 years, for example), or a town where the major employers are shutting down and people are moving away for work, it shouldn't surpise (sic) anyone if this is reflected in church attendance and membership.
Steve Kurtzahn
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Shanna:
I found your reply to Jan Nelson to be respectful and helpful, as well as thoughtful and thought-provoking. Yours is an example of the style of communication we are looking for on the Church and Change listserv.
Thank you.
Jim Aderman
Church and Change, moderator [GJ - also a founder, ex-retired/fired pastor, contributing editor - Forward in Chicanery, FIC.]
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Aaron,
I believe you have accurately understood what I meant by "effective" and using the word "faithful" in a seemingly unloving way. Below are the three senarios (sic) I had used at the C & C conference as I discussed relevance.
John Parlow "Dream big...the Word works!"
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John,
Thands (sic) for illustrating so well some key issues we face as we consider how best to communicate the message entrusted to us. You mentioned previously that you used these illustrations in your presentation at the recent Church and Change Conference. I wasn't able to make your session (there were way too many "must-attend" offerings at this conference). Do you have materials/handouts that
you could post or otherwise make available for those who missed it?
Mike Borgwardt
Crossroads Church, Chicago [GJ - Notice the omission of Lutheran; at least Borgwardt is honest. But does he take Lutheran money?]
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Joe Krohn Itches for Growth -
I have been following this Dr. Sweet thread and it's (sic) morphs with great interest. This is a great example of the verse "iron sharpens iron" a pastor friend of mine uses quite often.
Just to interject, and this may have been stated already; yes, we live in the end times, but we are not growing and there are churches that have experienced phenomenal growth in the last 10 to 15 years. We have to do something. I don't know if I'll be at the conference, but I am somewhat put off by the fact that it is assumed by some on this list that some of us cannot discern what is good and what is bad. The casual/baby Christian/low end of the spectrum faith worshipper is not going to be at the Conference. These are people with strong faiths who show genuine concern about the future of our Synod and theology. Reaction on this list is proof of that. We are pretty much WELS Christians who are very
involved in our churches. Thank the Lord that Luther was able to discern. Luther is a great example to look at in times like these. Take what is good and throw out the bad. But you have to remain relevant in today’s society and if we need to bring in someone who can help us, I say go for it! When I see churches like Lakewood in Houston buy the old Omni because of their growth, or Saddleback
in California, or Chandler Christian Church right in my back yard buying up chunks of real estate to expand, I think they must be doing something right!! I would never approve of their theologies, but hey, why can’t we take what they are doing right and graft it on our theology? We’re pretty proud of our
theology aren’t we? At least that’s the impression I get from this list. We have to get proactive. I fear our Synod has waited too long. At times I grieve for WELS. We just need to get as evangelical as the Evangelicals are and be like it says in our name: Wisconsin EVANGELICAL Lutheran Synod.
God Bless you all!
Joe Krohn
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Dear Redeemed and fellow Brothers and Sisters of the WELS,
This internet, what a blessing...and a curse.
I don't think anyone is talking about changing doctrine. I think we all agree that there are different ways of doing ministry as long as it is Biblical and I haven't read anything on these threads that was
un-Biblical. I see alot (sic) of 'iron sharpening iron' as a good friend of mine likes to say. I think we all agree that in general we can do a better job as a Synod since our growth has been stagnant. If we can glean some sucessful (sic) strategies from other sources we should. We may even convert some of these 'heretics'. But I think this is the rub. I think some have trouble separating these methods
from their doctrine. Because it is their idea, somehow it is intertwined with their doctrine. It's kind of like separating the sin from the sinner. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but it works. Or taking a secular song and changing the lyrics to make it sacred. Some folks just can't separate the old relationship of the melody with the old lyrics even though the new song is God pleasing. (especially for someone who may never have heard the 'old' song.) It's just a point of perspective. I hope this helps.
Blessings to you all,
Joe Krohn
