These are Doug Engelbrecht's personal notes that he sends to Northern Wisconsin District pastors after each meeting:
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GJ - Not exactly the Formula of Concord, is it?
Now if we can only turn Mark Jeske into a Lutheran, someone who no longer promotes that idiot Mark Driscoll.
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I have learned from several sources that nothing has been settled with Mark Jeske. The report above is considered misleading spin.
Jeske is expanding his market, due to a lack of funds from Schwan, Thrivent, and the foundations.
Jeske is going to LCMS venues (their favorite term in Church and Change) to raise money. That means worshiping with them and agreeing with them, in congregations and district meetings. Jeske already participates in union services with Missouri and Habitat for Humanity.
Kingdom Workers and CrossWalk in Phoenix have both canceled Mark Jeske as a speaker. KW is having their confab in Phoenix. They lined up His Grace a year early, but the lay leadership wanted him off the menu - due to the current situation.
CrossWalk may have been encouraged. Everyone knows, anything goes, at CrossWalk.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Time of Generic Grace Update":
Damage control is pretty obvious in this sentence.
"Time of Grace has convinced the LC-MS to change the designation of Time of Grace from a RSO to a service organization that is recognized by the LC-MS."
RSO is an acronym for Recognized Service Organization. So - did we just hear that Time of Grace moved from a LCMS Recognized Service Organization to a service organization recognized by the LCMS? Huh?
The confessional factions of the LCMS must also cringe at the thought of Time of Grace being recognized as a service organization by the LCMS. Here's a little parlor game so you can cringe as well: 1) Drink a swig of beer every time you see a Gospel message in the October-December TOG messages (http://www.timeofgrace.org/recentmessage.php). 2) See how much beer remains in the first can when you finish reading.
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GJ - Two Nazarenes and a Mormon took the beer test mentioned above and stayed cold, dead sober.
15 comments:
Who knew that Spener's and Calvin's B-Days were so close? I bet the CG people did!:
How to Celebrate John Calvin's 501st Birthday:
http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/01/how_to_celebrate_john_calvins_501st_birthday.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+(Logos+Bible+Software+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Reader
Spener B-Day:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/01/important-birthday-on-wednesday.html
I hope this is not off of the topic.(Jeske is friends with Ski) I just checked the Core's webstry and they are starting small group,layman lead Home Bible studies. Did some body say "CELL GROUPS?" Actually Ski is calling these "neighborhoods." www.gotcore.com-Pastor GJ warned us about these cell-groups. Listen to Pastor Jackson, you cannot deny his wisdom.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
Wels church lady is back and better than ever!
Help!
Please, what does ROG mean? However, all this suprises us how?
"The report above is considered misleading spin."
That is par for WELS.
The neighborhoods at The CORE were actually started last September. They are not a "Bible Study" that presents new material. They are sermon discussion groups so they focus on The WORD that was preached to them during the previous service. It is also another oppertunity for regular attendees to get to know each other. Just so you have some additional FACTS not assumptions.
I agree with concerns over layled Bible studies. I also know many confessional laymen that are well grounded scriptually that could lead such groups in a God-pleasing manner. I also know of "Bible Studies" that are either really book clubs or are opinion-based and not led by someone who is mature enough spiritually to lead such a group, so I urge caution.
What exactly is wrong with a group that meets to study the Scriptures at someone's home? It doesn't sound like this is a replacement for the Bible studies that are offered at the Core.
For Scott Jungen:
TOG stands for Time Of Grace!(Jeske's TV preacher show) RSO is Recognized Service Organization, which means if an "organization" is recognized(approved by the LCMS synod directly{and a little use with dollars too}) as being PART of the LCMS. This, as you know, is against the doctrine of fellowship.
And Scott, I did get your message and do plan to e-mail at a nearest convienece. Oh, and these things do not suprise us.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
"What exactly is wrong with a group that meets to study the Scriptures at someone's home? It doesn't sound like this is a replacement for the Bible studies that are offered at the Core."
Problem 1. The leader is unsure of what he "agrees" with as far as church doctine. If you have a layperson leader who says I'm not sure if I agree with that... such as in the areas of fellowship they may influence others in the group to question their own beliefs.
Problem 2. The Bible studies used are based on material that is scriptually incorrect or misinterpreted and the leader doesn't recognize the false doctrine in it.
Cell Groups are for Dummies
You have to sign a secrecy covenant, what does that tell you? It is a biblical "no, no" for a good reason, it isn't good for you and your privacy is compromised.
Stay away from cell groups. It's a cult of confession.
Let your yeas be yeas and nays be nays.
Someone asks
"What exactly is wrong with a group that meets to study the Scriptures at someone's home?"
There isn't something wrong with it in and of itself. But it does well to ask: where's the Authority structure? (authority in the sense that it comes from the Latin word auctoritas, inferring the power to change or influence.)
In my experience, groups of people need an Authority, for the sake of order and so that someone has The Final Say. I've found this to be true for many varied activities: pouring concrete or studying the Bible, for example.
At a concrete pour, the absence of an Authority results in "too many chiefs and not enough Indians". Everybody yells at everyone else. In Bible study, two outcomes are likely, from my experience. The first is that individuals all have their own interpretation of a certain Scripture . The second is that a leader emerges organically. The first case happens because people generally don't want to enforce their own understanding upon someone else, especially in Christian circles. The second case happens because of the organically chosen leader's magnetism or forcefulness. (A third likely outcome: everyone talks about their feeeeeeeelings)
Neither, of course, is a wise way to study Scripture. The first injects subjectivity into a very objective set of truths. The second is dangerous because personal magnetism or forcefulness becomes the rule and replaces orthodoxy. (That's how cults start.)
Beyond that, the witness of the historical Church and the New Testament is that organized Christian activity is always led by someone who is Called. Most often (not always: as in post-Stalin Russia) those whom Christians call to be Authorities are more educated in the Scriptures than laity.
Professor Jackson probably knows church history enough to trace cell groups (and the "Everyone a minister" concept) to some post-Luther pietism and I'd be grateful to hear a synopsis. I can't speak to that, but I can say that I recognize it as a manifestation of this country's secular religion: Equality. The ever growing shift toward pure democracy is an example. "Army of One" is another. Collectivist taxation of the wealthy, and so on. It's not surprising to see evidence of secular culture in the church.
Pastors are called by God to serve as Authority in the Church. Great blessings and great burdens are given to these men as a result of being Called. Laity, blessed and burdened in different ways, should not
look to supplant Pastors, and should recognize the danger of doing so.
“The report above is considered misleading spin.”
You are being too polite. It is a pathetic attempt at damage control.
Damage control is pretty obvious in this sentence.
"Time of Grace has convinced the LC-MS to change the designation of Time of Grace from a RSO to a service organization that is recognized by the LC-MS."
RSO is an acronym for Recognized Service Organization. So - did we just hear that Time of Grace moved from a LCMS Recognized Service Organization to a service organization recognized by the LCMS? Huh?
The confessional factions of the LCMS must also cringe at the thought of Time of Grace being recognized as a service organization by the LCMS. Here's a little parlor game so you can cringe as well: 1) Drink a swig of beer every time you see a Gospel message in the October-December TOG messages (http://www.timeofgrace.org/recentmessage.php). 2) See how much beer remains in the first can when you finish reading.
Lay led cell groups are great for training pietists. I know. I was one.
I remember one person at a self-study group who was not wanting to do a WELS produced study (current bilge not withstanding)- just wanted to study the Bible and organically come to the "right" conclusions without the "directing" effect of a Bible study guide. He grew WELS and was very solid and should have known better. He now resides in the world of Ev Free.
Sweet deal huh?
That was very well said, what you said,DK. God bless you and thanks.
Sincerely in Christ.
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