Freddy Finkelstein has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek Wisconsin Lutheran College Hires Geez...":
Given the growing expense involved with college education, it is prudent for parents to begin planning ahead of time, so I have been planning for my children's college education for some time, now. For what it is worth, even though my children are 8 years, minimum, from college age, WLC has already been ruled out of consideration. At this point, the only Lutheran college under serious consideration is Bethany Lutheran College in Mankato, MN (ELS). I have visited the campuses and spoken with professors and admission counselors at both WLC and BLC, I have met several students and graduates from both colleges, including students of WLC from my own congregation, and I am far more impressed with Bethany at this point, both academically and confessionally speaking. I am particularly impressed with the Confessional activism of some Bethany professors -- the involvement of some here, being characteristic of those I've met. By comparison, the overt "Schwaermer" activism that proceeds from WLC does not help them, Charis having been one such glaring example of it. These influences do trickle down to the students. In fact, all of the students who have been sent to WLC from our own small congregation in the past six years or so (roughly 30% of our high-school grads), have been lost to these influences, while the students I have met from Bethany seem to be hotly Confessional by comparison. Yes, students, your words and actions represent the primary influences that have shaped you -- your college, high-school, church, family, etc. -- and, based on your words and actions, others rightly form judgments regarding those influences.
Yet, I am not blind to the reality that change is possible. According to my contacts in LCMS, there are two relatively conservative Concordia colleges left, Wisconsin and Irvine, and having spoken with a few Confessional professors from Concordia Wisconsin over the years, and several of their students, I am duly impressed, and am eager to see how the future may shape the reality of Lutheran education in LCMS and elsewhere in America. In the end, if I am going to purchase a specifically Lutheran education for my children, I am not going to be suckered into paying for one that is not calculated to produce, and which does not demonstrably produce, Lutheran confessors. Merely providing an education in a "Lutheran" environment is not sufficient -- that is to pay extra for only an adjective, and for just that I can purchase a positively excellent education at St. Olaf in Northfield, MN. Otherwise, there are many other very fine sources of education available.
So there is my open letter to the WLC Board. I'm not going to waste my time personally engaging fruitless discussion with a group of men whose public decisions demonstrate an undying commitment to CGM and other forms of enthusiasm. Their minds are already made up, the direction their leadership is taking them is evidence of this fact. Instead, I'll point out that WLC is not WELS, per se, but is only affiliated with WELS as an external organization, apparently sharing in a fellowship arrangement with WELS; and I'll suggest that maybe it's time WELS begin independently reconsidering that arrangement -- which would, of course, impact the member congregations of the WLC corporation and prompt them to exert appropriate influence.
I'll vote with my patronage, and encourage others to do the same.
Freddy Finkelstein
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+Diet O. Worms has left a new comment on your post "Paul Kelm Effect: Freddy Finkelstein on Lutheran C...":
A few years back, a waitress approached and struck up a conversation after seeing me reading a Bible over lunch. (How's that for efficacy!) Eventually we found that we were both WELS, and that she had just graduated from WLC and was studying further to start a career in substance abuse counseling. I asked her impression of the WELS school, and her first response was, "It is way too easy to get pot."
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GJ - That will be called slander, Diet O. Worms.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Paul Kelm Effect: Freddy Finkelstein on Lutheran C...":
the reason chapel is poorly attended is because it reeks of reformed theology and practice!!My niece just graduated from WLC and while there attended the local wels church St.Johns, she couldn't stomach the chapel worship.
signed,
confessional Lutheran pastor's wife
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GJ - The Reformed emphasis is coming from the WLC board of directors. WLC has been on a unionistic bent for a long time.
Someone asked me today, "Why such a huge board? Is that normal for higher education?" I think the board is huge to give more power to a few people - divide and conquer. Besides, each board member is expected to bring in money or influence. Joe Kennedy (the patriarch) was on the Notre Dame board, but he did not give much money. They threw him off.
21 comments:
A few years back, a waitress approached and struck up a conversation after seeing me reading a Bible over lunch. (How's that for efficacy!) Eventually we found that we were both WELS, and that she had just graduated from WLC and was studying further to start a career in substance abuse counseling. I asked her impression of the WELS school, and her first response was, "It is way too easy to get pot."
GJ...I am now posting my Lutheran entries on a new blog. My new blog is Lutheran Colportage. I hope that you and your readers will join me there.
Norman Teigen
ELS layman
Ooops. I forgot the link.
http://lutherancolportage.blogspot.com/
Thanks,
Norman Teigen
ELS layman
Y'all would do well to take a toke and chill.
Seriously, why would it be harder to find pot in Milwaukee than any place else? Last time I checked there were as many sinners going to Synod schools as anywhere else.
Technical difficulties? My comments not going through?
from WELS church lady
Oh I forgot. Satan doesn't work very hard at Synod schools. God puts an invisible shield around them.
I don't see why Norm has to have two blogs. Don't his readers know how to click through posts they don't want to read to get to those they do?
Hi Freddy Finkelstein,
I know there's probably no way around it, but you realize that by saving up for your kids education, you're going to contribute to that education just getting more and more expensive. That means high school graduates without generous, forward-looking parents will not be able to afford to go to Bethany because Bethany knows exactly how high they can raise rates without losing too many students.
This reminds me of the LCMS seminaries which became obscenely expensive during the 1990s. They were getting all the second-career students with their wives working, and they sold their over-inflated value houses to attend seminary. Now the LCMS seminaries are in the same position as GM. Just as SUVs were bought at low interest rates made possible by homeowner equity, with housing prices depressed and houses just plain hard to sell nowadays, whose going to sell their house to attend seminary? So the seminaries still have their education priced at SUV levels, but Concordia St. Louis has half the students it used to. Concordia Ft Wayne is doing better, but only because their price per year is lower than St. Louis.
I'm just sayin'
excerpt:
"Given the growing expense involved with college education, it is prudent for parents to begin planning ahead of time, so I have been planning for my children's college education for some time, now."
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related:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/01/luther-against-pietists-preview.html
Anonymous said...
It just occurred to me that the LCMS seminaries are the GMs of the seminary world. GM tried to make its profits of large expensive SUVs that people paid for via the appreciating prices of their homes. However, as soon as the housing bubble popped, they couldn't even get a loan for an SUV even if they wanted one badly.
In the same way the LCMS seminaries found that they could raise the rate of tuition, and give all the profs and staff nice salaries, because many 2nd career older student--guess what?!!--sold their homes to attend at those seminaries. The LCMS seminaries justified the high prices saying the students were getting an SUV education compared to other seminaries that sold compacts. Yes, they were sold a bill a goods, for sure!
Now the seminaries are nearly devoid of 2nd career older students (compared to what they used to be) because selling the depreciated house to pay for seminary doesn't make as much economic sense anymore, just like buying a new SUV doesn't make sense for as many people anymore.
The seminaries are like GM in that their costs are still there, AND they are getting their bailout from the Feds just like GM did, but the in the form of student loans to pay for escalating tuition, rather than via TARPA loans like GM received.
January 5, 2010 2:51 AM
Dear Anonymous Libertine@10:37
Ya'll would do well to repent and be absolved.
Ya'll would also do well to take a southern grammar lesson. Ya'll is a singular, the plural is All Ya'll(s)
Technical difficulties...not! Looks like Pastor GJ may have rejected the comment due to my radar sounding off! I admit some of the content was "a bit too much." Here is the Cliff notes version:
Good morning Diet and Freddy! Nice to hear from you both. I want to thank Freddy for the WLC information. My family has also been discussing the WELS colleges and I would like to learn more about Bethany in reguards to Confessionalism. Speaking of Bibles I recently talked to a seasoned WELS leader who has "Buyer's Remorse" over the new ESV study Bible.(some passages with less than perfect doctrine)
The C&C is so sad. Kelm at WLC! Now the title Willow Creek Lutheran Chapel changes from being true but funny to true but scary. Keep telling like it is Pastor GJ!
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
Bethany is an excellent school and we are very confessional.
And Anon 11:20, Bethany is the cheapest private school in the entire state of Minnesota. They won't be raising their prices more than any other college would. Regardless, the price is worth it.
"Ya'll would do well to repent and be absolved.
Ya'll would also do well to take a southern grammar lesson. Ya'll is a singular, the plural is All Ya'll(s)"
Spoken like a true northerner...yah dontcha knooow.
It's Y'all. Look it up. And the way it was used was perfectly fine. You call yourself a writer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%27all
What's the most disturbing is what I'm supposed to be repentant of, Shottey...please pray tell.
ANON toker
Schottey wants you to repent of smokin'--whether or not you were just making a joke.
Hittin the ganj now and then is nothing to repent of UNLESS you are irresponsible in your enjoyment of it.
Schottey, getting stoned within moderation is perfectly moral. Marijuana is only "wrong" because of a cultural misunderstanding. (having to do with a certain William Randolph Hearst)
It is valid to argue that more people are harmed by the demonization of pot than by pot.
AND it's very defensible to suggest that FAR MORE PEOPLE are turned into idiots via obsession with professional sports than marijuana.
just sayin bro'
Wow...just wow.
First of all, I've spent plenty of time in the south. I promise you, when talking to a group of people, it is "all y'all." Sometimes, regionally, it turns into "all y'alls." But we can agree to disagree there.
Originally I was just calling you to repentance over your libertine attitude--that we should excuse pot use because "it happens" and "we're all sinners."
However, Anon@7:47 you are so far outside of the truth I pray you are not an MLC student--although if you are I can see why you are anonymous. Smoking marijuana is against the law. Period. Breaking civil law is breaking God's law. Therefore it is 100% immoral.
Spend more time reading the Word and less attempting to justify yourself.
Actually, Anon@7:47, let me be a little more forceful in my debate.
Personal snipes aside, your position is utterly indefensible. Not only is it completely asinine to take the stance you did, you did so only as a swipe at me.
How exactly is anyone hurt by liking sports? If it's an addiction, sure...but anything out of moderation is a sin.
Marijuana, period...possessing, smoking, selling, etc is a sin. There is no way around that. It is against the law. If it wasn't against the law you would have an argument, but you don't.
I am completely mortified that the two of you are most likely MLC students. You have done yourselves and your school a disservice by your posts.
the reason chapel is poorly attended is because it reeks of reformed theology and practice!!My niece just graduated from WLC and while there attended the local wels church St.Johns, she couldn't stomach the chapel worship.
signed,
confessional Lutheran pastor's wife
Schottey...
Why are you assuming the two of them are MLC students, exactly? First of all, you have zero proof. Second of all, why would they even have a reason to post on this thread? This is about Bethany and WLC, not MLC. And trust me, I'm not trying to defend their positions at all (I can't stand pot), but I highly doubt obtaining pot in Milwaukee or Mankato is a very difficult thing at all.
Confessional Lutheran Wife,
What brand Lutheran are you and where did you get your information from regarding WLC chapel reeking of reformed theology and practice?
KFAX
I'm not assuming, I just said that it is likely. It is likely because the two men said personal things about (against) me and I have a lot more friends at MLC than either of those two schools.
Either way, the intent of my post...and the subsequent pit in my stomach from the pro-pot position is the same regardless of which synodical school they attend.
Schottey:
I don't smoke the stuff anymore. Therefore I'm not attempting to justify myself.
If you were to look into the philosophical roots of the USA you'd find that our government is set up to be a Social Contract. "A contract is an exchange of promises for the breach of which the law will provide a remedy." (wikipedia) Our laws are subsections of a larger contract that we as US citizens agree to abide by, by being citizens. Therefore the laws that we US citizens obey, we obey only because we have allowed those laws to exist. It's OUR law, because the government IS the people. Therefore, if we choose to disregard a law it's our prerogative and are agreeing to accept the consequences; it's self imposed law--only the most puritanical of Christians would argue that a self imposed law, by its induction would automatically constitute as God's law. (I will not eat transfats!!!) Therefore if I get caught with an eighth and get nicked for a 100-bob, I myself am responsible to pay--because my name is behind the law. I find it doubtful that you Michael Schottey, driving down the freeway, say a quiet prayer of repentance every time your car coasts over the speed limit. (even if it's an unintentional, sin still is sin right?)
And actually, Michael, Ganja is not against the law and it is against the law. Who does God tell you to obey? Municipal government, State government, or Federal Government? Does it depend on who's in the White House. Until Obama was elected, the DEA had a Federal mandate to prosecute individuals in states who's laws were more lax than Federal standards. Post-Obama, the DEA has allowed states to regulate their own affairs. Check out the Denver, CO legal statutes regarding pot. Or California. Or what is about to happen in Washington D.C. The subjectivity of "The Law" gives much credence to the social contract argument. Subjective laws are meaningless laws. Hence, all that is left is to address the subject from the moral, Biblical standpoint.
The Bible tells us to be sober minded. Love God above all and love our neighbors as ourselves. Always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have. Think about whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, etc. The Scriptures tell us not to engage in drunkenness because it leads to debauchery. Many many Christians agree that it's possible to be under the influence of alcohol without losing their moral centers. Same with Ganja. An anti-marijuana crusader would be casting a mighty big cloak of judgment upon a lot of people whose hearts they can't read. Marijuana is just like alcohol. The unwary (partying) kid can become a total debauched loser when smoking pot, just like when drinking alcohol.
It's all about where the individual is at. I would definitely advise against kids smoking pot, and anyone who has problems with moderation...and anyone who has a government job (me)...and anyone who has several kids(me) and therefore ought to spend financial resources in other ways. But I'm sure you get my drift.
DMLC was my alma mater, a long time ago. So Michael, this is a response to your words and that's it. THere's alot of people far more drunk on their own pietistic sense of self than marijuana.
And I'm sure you've seen the hordes of (adult) men in the Lutheran world who has an obsessive compulsive fixation on Sports. In many circles of men the only serious discussion allowed is about sports. These men often think less of non-sports adherents. It's my opinion that this total absorption of adults is far more damaging to society (AND the Church) than pot could ever be. It's far more Huxley's "Soma" than pot could ever be.
No...
Marijuana is also against federal and (most) state laws. It is not like, or better than alcohol use.
In a place where it's recreational use is legal, you would have a leg to stand on. Unless you're posting from Amsterdam, this conversation is moot.
And yes, speeding is also against the law, and thus against God's law. It is not pietism to point that out.
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