AC V has left a new comment on your post "WELS Meditations Agrees with ELCA: Everyone Is Alr...":
WELS Q&A
Hello, A Baptist friend of mine is having trouble with pastors forgiving a congregation's sins. Could you please explain to me what gives pastors or others the right to forgive sins. I see James 5:16 and John 20:23. Still kind of confused. Thank you.
The Bible verses you mention are appropriate. It may also be said that all passages that invite and urge us to preach the gospel are also rightly mentioned. To preach the gospel is to proclaim the forgiveness of sins for the sake of Christ and his atoning work. No one will really understand what the Lutheran church teaches about "absolution" (declaring forgiveness of sins) unless he clearly understands the truth of objective or universal justification. That is at the very heart of what we believe and teach. Long ago God has already forgiven every human being his or her sins. Christ's life and death as our substitute is finished. Nothing more needs to be done by the sinner himself. A Christian can go to any person on earth and rightly say to him, "Your sins are forgiven." To put it another way: The forgiveness of sins is not a potential fact that becomes a reality only when sinners do something to qualify for it, or even when the gospel is proclaimed and personally received through faith. It has long been a reality to be proclaimed to sinners without conditions.
When Jesus Christ rose from the dead-2000 years ago, he was raised because of our justification-because we had already been justified (Romans 4:25). 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 and Romans 3:22-23 stress the same truth.
This is why we may speak to one another to say "Your sins are forgiven" or "In the name of God, I forgive your sins." This is why a pastor, acting on behalf of all the Christians in the assembly, says the same thing. This is not arrogance or trying to "play God." It is serving as God's ambassadors and messengers, which is what we are. Perhaps your Baptist friend is thinking, "This should not be done in a large group, since there may be people who are really not repentant or who are hypocrites in that church. You cannot tell them they are forgiven, can you?" We answer in this way: "Yes, we can and must say this, for God has invited and commanded us to do so. Jesus died and took away their sins, reconciling them to him - whether they believe it or not."
Lest we be misunderstood, we also say that if we know someone to be impenitent or a hypocrite, we will first speak to that person about sin, God's wrath, and eternal damnation in hell to expose his sinfulness and allow the Holy Spirit to convict him. That is also why the absolution in our public assemblies is always preceded by a general confession of sins and expression of repentance. But the fact remains-From God's standpoint Christ died for them and took away their guilt. We tell people this whether they are believers or unbelievers. And we hope and pray that this time they will believe us so that they too will know it is true and rejoice with us in the amazing grace of God.
- F. Bivens, Archived in Forgiveness and Repentance Section.
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| F. Bivens, Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary |
OK, so what would the Book of Concord say?:
"Let any one of the adversaries come forth and tell us when remission of sins takes place. O good God, what darkness there is! ... what does the power of the keys effect, if sins have been already remitted? Here, indeed, they also labor much more, and wickedly detract from the power of the keys." - Augsburg Confession, Apology; Article XII. Of Repentance
AC V has left a new comment on your post "False Teachers Mislead the Students at Wisconsin L...":
More Bivens:
"The Lutheran Confessions clearly speak of objective or universal justification and the imputation or forgiveness of all people prior to and aside from justifying faith (e.g., FC, Ep, III, 4,7,9; Apol., IV, 103).
But the Confessions also use terms or phrases that if torn from the context of the rest of the Confessions, could be understood to say that justification is more of a potential reality without faith (e.g., "God wants to justify," Apol. IV, 69, 180, 292; "If we believe," e.g., FC, SD, III, 13; Apol IV, 238, 296; Apol XIII, 8; "When we believe," e.g., Apol. IV, 222, 382; FC, SD, XI, 38).
Lutherans who seem to spend more time quoting the Lutheran Confessions than they do the Scriptures (AC V - What? Please explain! It's a bad thing to quote the Confessions?) have been known to pit subjective justification against objective justification and try to use the Confessions as their ally."
- "Getting The Right Message Out –
And Getting It Out The Right Way
With Special Emphasis on Public Worship and Classroom Instruction" p. 3
Wow. Typical UOJ Stormtrooper.
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GJ - Bivens bragged about going to Fuller Seminary while gathered with the entire Midland circuit pastors, include the future DP John Seifert. That was in Seifert's driveway. Nevertheless, he told a seminarian, "I don't know where Jackson gets the idea that I went to Fuller."
WELS pastors lied so often that I began writing down their quotations in my Day-Timer, to read back to them.
