Joe Krohn on Forgiveness - The Gospel as Law

Saturday, June 11, 2011

The Gospel as Law

An anonymous poster commented on a previous blog concerning the forgiveness of sins not being in the Second Article of the Apostles Creed which speaks of the atoning sacrifice of Christ; His propitiatory satisfaction for the sins of the world.  But that the forgiveness of sins is the work of the Holy Ghost given through faith.

 "I believe you may be on to something, highlighting the location of "the forgiveness of sins" in the Creed.

It does not read, "...was crucified, died, forgiving the sins of the world whether they believe it or not, and was buried."

It does not read, "On the third day he rose again from the dead, distributing forgiveness to the entire world."

The Gausewitz catechism did not speak of a blanket forgiveness of the world, apart from the Means of Grace.
"263. To whom does God forgive sins? To me and all believers.
264. Where are sins forgiven? In the Christian Church on earth."

There was a noticeable change in the Kuske catechism's treatment of the forgiveness of sins. Strangely, the word "forgiveness" is not even used in the following questions/answers from the "Forgiveness of Sins" section!

"253. How many people did God declare righteous? God declared all people righteous (Objective justification).
255. Why is it important, then, that the Holy Ghost work faith in me? It is important that the Holy Ghost work faith in me so that I do not trust in my own works but only in the righteousness God gives me by grace in Christ (Subjective justification).""

And yet God proclaims in Proverbs 17:15 "Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent — the LORD detests them both."  In Isaiah 5:23 "who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent."  And this from Exodus 23:6 "...for I will not acquit the guilty."

This from Martin Chemnitz 'Loci Theologici' II, 251 states:  "Luther correctly said, God remits no sin unless justification has been rendered for it to the Law. . . .And so because God does not justify out of fickleness or carelessness or mistakenness or injustice and because nothing can be found in man by which he can be justified by God - and yet the righteousness of the Law must be fulfilled in the one to be justified (Rom. 8:24) - it is necessary that a foreign righteousness intervene.  This foreign righteousness is such that the payment of guilt and the complete obedience of the Law satisfied divine wrath.  And the result is that there can be a propitiation for the sins of the whole world.  To this righteousness the sinner, terrified and condemned by the voice of the Law, flees with true faith." (emphasis mine)

Our perfect God who was, is, and forever will be has never changed.  All men are guilty before God prior to faith, repentance and the remission of sins.  The extreme false teaching of Objective Justification proclaims that the ungodly who are still outside of faith (hence not in Christ) are forgiven.  As the Children of Israel in the Old Testament looked to the brazen serpent in faith to be saved, in like manner all believers of all time look to Christ in faith for salvation.  Extreme OJ falls flat on its face when one tries to reconcile it with OT believers as well as unbelievers.  How could a condemned dead unbeliever's sins be forgiven before Christ paid for them?  They weren't...he would have needed to hear the Word and the promise of the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ all worked by the Holy Ghost.

The problem with this extreme false teaching of OJ is that it has done away with the Law.  Since all are already forgiven, the preaching of repentance can go out the window.  The very issue (Antinomianism) that OJ is trying to avoid (even exacerbates) still remains...you just have to believe it.  The message of all times in scripture is repentance and the remission of sins.   But OJ makes it all about forgiveness and then there are all kinds of schisms wrought with a warped sense of responsibility to forgive someone whether they are repentant or not.  How responsible is that to the offending party?  (Much worse an unbeliever who comes to church and hears the message of OJ and figures...'hey I'm golden, what do I need to come here for?'...but that is another issue)

About three years before I met my wife, she was in a physically abusive relationship (to her and her boys and dogs); malicious abandonment of vows; and embroiled in counseling with a WELS pastor who ranted uncontrollably (when she refused to forgive) that even though her husband did not admit what he did, nor was he sorry for what he did, she was still obligated to forgive him...and if she didn't, it was her fault for the broken marriage.  Where does this come from other than OJ; that Christ has forgiven all sinners and therefore we are required to do the same...without contrition from the offender?  The accusation from pastor was 'what did you do to make your husband so angry that he had to hit you...and I've gotten rough with my wife before and she never called the cops on me'.  She ended up leaving that congregation after that same pastor bashed her in the tooth so hard (she thought it was broken) with the common cup during communion that it splashed down her clothes.

I have heard of similar situations where a woman has had to endure years of her husband viewing porn (adultery) all the while being counseled by the pastor and being told she has to forgive...even though it goes on.  Or the woman who is verbally and physically abused (malicious abandonment of vows) who is seeking a scriptural divorce and is told she must forgive and not file for divorce. If she does not forgive and continues towards divorce, she will be excommunicated.

Even God forsook His people after a time when they broke His covenant with them.

Another problem is the preaching that says since Christ has forgiven you, now you have to do this for Him. (Guilt - Gospel as Law)  We have sermons that have the pastor sounding more like a life coach instead of a servant of the Word.  We are told to live our lives sacrificially and that includes forgiving other people whether they are sorry or not.  Not that good works are bad but it reeks of a self righteousness and is just plain upside down theology.

Worship and church life to a Lutheran is a sacramental life.  We can't do anything on our own that is why we look to Christ (in Word and Sacrament) because He has already done it all for us.  It lets us off the hook so to speak.  It is enough to have faith...and we know He will give us good works to do.  It's a package deal that comes with the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Peddling Insurance for Thrivent.Supporting Hab/Hum and Salvation Army! Note Pan-Religion Stained Glass

More information is posted here.

Everyone in the LCMS is peddling life insurance, but from only one company - Thrivent.

In return for the monopoly granted to Thrivent Insurance (Appleton, WI) for promoting its products and gaining the membership lists of congregations, Thrivent gives Missouri $50 to 60 million a year.

That makes the synod, the districts, the congregations and schools little business centers for Thrivent. The agents get membership lists from the pastors. Failing that, they get the lists from one of them members.

The members and pastors think they are best off giving their insurance money and investments to Thrivent, because they are getting all that loot back again in grants.

The same can be said for WELS. I am not sure how deep the Little Sect is.

Thrivent takes but does not give back so well. Thrivent gives money to the Salvation Army, which is another denomination, not just a charity.

Thrivent has an enormous ongoing grant to Habitat for Humanity, over $100 million. So much for "our" insurance company!

The multi-religion stained glass window (pretty ugly, eh?) is another Thrivent project.

Best of all - Thrivent channels a lot of money to ELCA. If Missouri gets $50 to 60 million, how much more does ELCA get. The ELCA is about twice as big as Missouri.

If the branch system works the way it did under AAL, the Syn Conference is completely enmeshed in ELCA at the local level, just as it is at the national level.

Thrivent likes to get everyone together at once, at all levels. Wave a $100 bill in front of conservative Lutherans and they are suddenly more ecumenical than Ghandi, more evangelical than Jesus.

Thrivent has united the Big Four already, helping them collapse toward one another. Make that Big Five, since the CLC has some participation too (on the sly).

Ontario Reader Comment on Pope Paul Without a Call

Anonymoose:

My sympathy of having to listen to the likes of Paul McCain -- the man's comments were vile.

Modern Philosophy Is a Construct: So Is Modern Theology and UOJ

I used to wonder why I wasted all those years studying modern theology. One thoelogian leads to studying another, just like following college and pro football. If someone follows the Packers, every pro game has significance. College football is just the same. I get emails about Notre Dame, with multiple Big Stories each week. For Domers, the alcholoic wide receiver is big news, and so is latest recruitment success or failure. For that reason, I watch very little football all year, college or pro.

My seminary professors were very big on Tillich, but my advisor at Notre Dame (Hommes) and his colleague (Fiorenza) were Tillich fanatics. Thus I read and took notes on Tillich. Karl Barth was important for Hauerwas, my dissertation advisor, but Barth actually taught my dissertation director, John Howard Yoder. In addition, Fiorenza (now at Harvard) was president of the Barth Society, so he was considered an expert on the Communist pastor of Safenwill.

Barth is important for all Lutherans, because he remains the official theologian of Fuller Seminary. Barth's students at Fuller were responsible for turning Fuller from mild inerrancy to anti-inerrancy.

Bonhoeffer is a modern who seems safe for all synods. SP Harrison quotes him adoringly. Bonhoeffer taught at Union Seminary in NYC, aka The Devil's Playground. Tillich tuaght at Union as well. Both men were Nazi sympathizers, if you look below the talking points about both theologians. Is that better or worse than being an advocate for Communism, as Barth and his hawt mistress (Kirschbaum) were.

Don't get me started on Schleiermacher, another rationalist from Halle. He never settled his doubts about the Christian faith, so he became the pivotal theologian for the moderns. He learned to write elegantly about the Christian faith without believing in the Word of God. Some wits call this faith without belief. ELCA oozes faith without belief, and the Syn Conference is dominated by it via Fuller.

All these theologians and many more are indebted to Kant, the 19th century philosopher. Modern theology--with a few rare exceptions, like Sasse--is a combination of rationalism from philosophy and Biblical terms from the past.

Jesus was born during the beginnings of the Roman Empire, since the Republic was already dead. The Roman Empire's culture was Greek, and all educated people spoke and wrote Greek, quoting it liberally in their letters. Greek was the soi-disant French language of the time. Therefore, the Christian faith was often articulated in the language of the philosophers. Augustine was a genius in this culture, and his conversion meant that all future theologians would share the language and thought of the philosophers.

Luther was suspicious of philosophical thought, but not because he was untrained in it. As an Augustinian monk of the Middle Ages, he knew Medieval philosophy and theology better than the pope. He also realized where that mindset could lead, based on assumptions. The ultimate Medieval philosopher and theologian was Aquinas, part of a college course in Medieval Latin. The Angelic Doctor, as he is called, used syllogisms to form his massive works.

Although Luther could argue with the best of theologians, using his vast knowledge of history and philosophy, he chose to use the Word alone as the basis for all assumptions.

For instance, if we accept the assumption that God would not let His vicar (the pope) make an error, then anything from the Antichrist is true. With a few changes in place, this is the assumption of Syn Conference and ELCA pastors: God would not allow Whorely Mother Synod to make a mistake. Therefore, any deviation from Holy Mother is a breach of fellowship, worthy of excommunication and shunning.

Fuller Means Barth and Kant
Laity have trouble with the agenda of the Lutheran synods (ELCA on down) because most people think in Biblical terms, like Luther, rather than in secular terms, like the Fuller-trained businessmen who run the synods.

They are not very good businessmen, because they have run their organizations into the ground. Any other retailer would fire them, offering many of them up for prosecution on felony obstruction and fraud charges. But these yahoos know how to take care of one another while fooling the laity.

UOJ Means Schleiermacher and Kant
Those who spend their time with Luther's sermons and the Bible have an immediate allergic reaction to Universal Objective Justification.

UOJ depends on logic, beginning with rationalistic assumptions. The Stormtroopers are unfazed by their own side-stepping of Biblical revelation and Confessional clarity. They do not realize they are channeling Barth, Schleiermacher, and Knapp because the Syn Conference con artists have portrayed a very select group of writers as the ultimate in orthodoxy. They also try to fool people into thinking that Means of Grace theologians embraced UOJ before it was invented by the Pietists.

I can go through my database and find UOJ people mentioning Calov, Gerhard, and Luther as their allies in "God declaring the entire world forgiven." But actual quotations prove otherwise.

UOJ, like ELCA, Is All Condemnation
The most energetic UOJ guardians are also the most condemning. In the name of all-grace and all-forgiveness, they spend most of their time reviling and excommunicating. As Luther said, lacking faith means there is nothing but Law.

For example, ELCA condemns anyone who questions the necessity of ordaining homosexuals and performing homosexual marriages. Although ELCA questioned those policies only a few years ago, to do so now is an invitation for scorn, abuse, and shunning. I told 29a he was a bigot, then a racist, for doubting ELCA's wisdom. He laughed, knowing what I was doing.

Tim Glende's anonymous blog is nothing but condemnation, albeit carried out in a clownish and illiterate fashion. Everyone is forgiven without faith, so he condemns with the law (his law) because he is all law. St. Peter in Freedom will die without Groeschel being plagiarized. But if someone identifies plagiarism as such, Glende will fire him (the circuit pastor) or excommunicate him (Techlin) during Holy Week.

Likewise, Kudu Don Patterson is open minded about all religious teachers. He gathered WELS church workers together to hear the pan-demon confab at Orlando, Florida. Let us spoil the Egyptians and rob them of their precious gems, gold, and silver. Confidential to VP Patterson - it costs a lot of money to carry out this spoiling, no?

But such diversity of thought is not to be tolerated in the congregation. If someone questions UOJ or criticizes blowing $35,000 on Cornerstone, he is cut off, excommunicated. The VP of the district, Patterson hisself, will be glad to visit with Joe and Lisa Krohn, as long as the newly excommunicated simply sit and listen. Only a short time ago, Joe was appointed an elder in the congregation. That means he can be an elder as long as he follows orders with glazed eyes and an empty mind.

But -
In the midst of this, there is love. Yes, there is no love like that of one UOJ Stormtrooper for another. Nothing binds people together like the joy of kicking out sincere members who want to discuss doctrine.

Get your Shamwow hankies out. Kudu Don Patterson and Tim the Bully Glende became Facebook friends in May of 2011. Blest be the tie that binds.

Luther to Zwingli - You Have Another Spirit
Luther knew that Zwingli was a rationalist, an Enthusiast who did not attribute all things to the Holy Spirit working through the Word. He refused to shake Zwingli's hand, saying, "You have another spirit."

That is true of the UOJ/CG Enthusiasts of today. They have another spirit. They are making plans, marketing the Gospel, entertaining the seekers, popping popcorn and brewing coffee for the Old Adam and Old Eve.

The Syn Conference pastor says, "My future rests in the hands of Holy Mother Synod. I must obey or I will starve to death. I must submit or I will not have a congregation."

The Word of God says that the Triune God is more powerful than any synod official, that the treasures of the Gospel are worth far more than a bowl of lentil soup.

UOJ Crippled by Man's Logic, But Unhampered by God's Word, Or the Book of Concord, Or Calov

Propter Christum has left a new comment on your post "DP Buchholz Offers First Contribution In the Beyon...":

FC SD, III, 57: "But, since it is the obedience as above mentioned [not only of one nature, but] of the entire person, it is a complete satisfaction and expiation for the human race, by which the eternal, immutable righteousness of God, revealed in the Law, has been satisfied, and is thus our righteousness, which avails before God and is revealed in the Gospel, and upon which faith relies before God, which God imputes to faith, as it is written, Rom. 5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous; and 1 John 1:7: The blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, cleanseth us from all sin. Likewise: The just shall live by his faith, Hab. 2:4; Rom. 1:17."

Doesn't this explain and rightly relate and contrast the objective sense of God's atonement for all people and His imputation of this righteousness only to those who believe? Saying that someone has his Knapp-sack on because he confesses UOJ would be to say that someone is a papist if he confesses the real presence, or that he is Reformed if he rejects the papacy! Luther taught UOJ. He called Jesus the solus peccator in his 1535 Galatians lectures. So did Jesus not take away the sins of the world? Did He not become sin? Did God not reconcile the world to Himself? God doesn't merely make it available for your sins not to be counted against you. Rather, Paul tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their tresspasses (sic) against them.

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Daniel Baker has left a new comment on your post "DP Buchholz Offers First Contribution In the Beyon...":

Propter Christum said:

"So did Jesus not take away the sins of the world? Did He not become sin? Did God not reconcile the world to Himself? God doesn't merely make it available for your sins not to be counted against you. Rather, Paul tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their tresspasses against them."

It seems to me that this is a non-sequitir. Just because Christ paid for the sins of the entire world and reconciled the same unto Himself, it does not logically follow that all men are de facto forgiven. If this is the case, of what use is the Church and the ministry of the Keys!?

Christ clearly says: "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained" (John 20:23). He does not say "You can assure men that their sins were remitted when I died on the cross."

More than this, of what use are the blessed Sacraments!? Were our baptisms not for the remission of sin? Does repentance not continue the same? Is the Sacrament of the Altar not a participation in the body and blood of Christ given for the forgiveness of sins?

Yes, all of this is always and only possible because of the objective fact of Christ's substitutionary and atoning work on Calvary; certainly, our faith should be placed in that truth rather than "having faith in faith," as some put it.

However, to suggest that forgiveness is applied to all people everywhere before they were born and regardless of time is not only illogical, but it negates the point and purpose of the Sacraments and ministry of the Church. Moreover, it gives way to the very thing it purports to prevent - an undue emphasis on our ability to "believe" - "Christ did everything; He even forgave your sins before you were born! All you have to do now is believe it!"

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "DP Buchholz Offers First Contribution In the Beyon...":

Kermit, you use of Romans 5:18 to contend that God Justified - forgave the whole world outside of the Means of Grace working contrition and faith in Christ teaches the same Universalism as Buchholz.

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

If outside the Word God gives all that is Christ's (righteousness for the forgiveness of sins) "leads to justification" then you also teach universalism because the same passage states, "leads to...life for all men." Life is salvation and thus you teach Universalism.

The Confessional Lutheran teaching concerning Romans 5:18 is that all righteousness is in Christ and never apart from him. Therefore by faith in Christ, worked graciously by the Holy Ghost through the Means of Grace (Word and Baptism), He is in us and we are in Him. We have his righteousness for the forgiveness of all of our sins through faith. Through faith we die to sin and are raised to Life in Christ to no longer live under the Law but under Grace. This is all through faith - that very righteousness of Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

So indeed the Gospel, the promise of the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ, comes to all men but they do not partake of it and neither does God declare them justified or righteous outside of faith in Him.

The Confessions faithfully declare that God does not consider anyone just outside of faith in Christ.

In Christ,
Brett Meyer

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GJ -

Kermit is Andrew Preus - http://forensicjustification.blogspot.com/

Propter Christum is Andrew Jacob Preus. Is he the same one? I am not sure. I need all three volumes of the Preus Family Directory. Here is a brief outline:

Governor Jake Preus had two sons, JAO Preus (LCMS president, formerly Springfield Seminary LCMS president) and Robert Preus (president, Springfield-Ft. Wayne Seminary).

JAO Preus had one son, Jack, who is a college president.

Robert Preus had around eleven sons, including Daniel Preus (former LCMS VP) and Rolf (who also had many sons). Rolf's sons seem to be the ones posting here and on LQ.

Klemet and Peter Preus, both pastors, are sons of Robert Preus.

As I noted before in a comment, this is a younger Preus taking issue with what Robert Preus wrote in Justification and Rome. Robert Preus quoted Calov with approval.

I am publishing all four Preus graphics below.

The young Preus argument is the same sort of rationalization I see repeated many times over, and it came from Norwegian Pietism. The Swedish Augustana Synod took issue with it in the 19th century.

1. Here is the logic - if Christ took on all sin in the atonement, all people became righteous (justified).
   
2. A second wobbly leg in their tripod of proofs is Jesus being justified in the Spirit. Because He was justified, declared righteous, all people are also declared righteous.
   
3. The third wobbly leg is Walther's statement that God absolved the world when Christ rise from the dead. If CFW said it, no one can doubt it, even though it makes Law and Gospel a bundle of contradictions. Thus they cited Romans 4:25 even though the entire verse in context opposes what they claim to be true. They do not want to admit to Pietist Georg Knapp, whose double justification formula was in print before Father Walther landed in the Big Easy.
   

I am sure Dr. Lito Cruz would agree that the wobbly tripod is placed on quicksand and admired without reason. The quicksand is a group of authorities who have been raised above the Scriptures and the Confessions: Walther, F. Pieper, the 1932 Brief Confession, Stoeckhardt, Kretzmann, Jungkuntz, and a few others. ELCA has the same universalist Gospel. Justification by faith, in contrast, is taught by:

1. The Scriptures.
   
2. Martin Luther.
   
3. Melanchthon.
   
4. Chytraeus.
   
5. Chemnitz.
   
6. The Book of Concord.
   
7. Gerhard.
   
8. Calov.
   
9. Quenstedt.
   
10. Krauth.
    
11. The early LCMS in its German catechism and its current KJV catechism.
    
12. The Gausewitz catechism.
    
13. Lenski, although he seems to have tried a compromise in language.
    
14. Robert Preus, in Justification and Rome.
    

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "UOJ Crippled by Man's Logic, But Unhampered by God...":

Daniel makes very good points. As Daniel shows how Objective Justification is opposed to the Sacraments and The Book of Concord clearly states the same here:

BOC: 6] Let any one of the adversaries come forth and tell us when remission of sins takes place. O good God, what darkness there is! They doubt whether it is in attrition or in contrition that remission of sins occurs. And if it occurs on account of contrition, what need is there of absolution, what does the power of the keys effect, if sins have been already remitted?…" http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_10_repentance.php

Here are additional BOC quotes that show that no one is justified in God's sight without faith in Christ.

Defense of the Augsburg Confession, Article IV Of Justification
67] "Faith cometh by hearing. And proof can be derived even from this that faith justifies, because, if justification occurs only through the Word, and the Word is apprehended only by faith, it follows that faith justifies."

71] "but we maintain this, that properly and truly, by faith itself, we are for Christ's sake accounted righteous, or are acceptable to God. And because "to be justified" means that out of unjust men just men are made, or born again, it means also that they are pronounced or accounted just. For Scripture speaks in both ways. [The term "to be justified" is used in two ways: to denote, being converted or regenerated; again, being accounted righteous. Accordingly we wish first to show this, that faith alone makes of an unjust, a just man, i.e., receives remission of sins".
http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php

Propter looks to Luther's Galatians essay for proof that he taught UOJ but unfortunately it cannot be found there. Here is a quote from that essay (and there are many!) that rejects the doctrine of UOJ:

74. But what is the process whereby Christ gives us such a spirit and redeems us from under the Law? The work is effected solely by faith. He who believes that Christ came to redeem us, and that he has accomplished it, is really redeemed. As he believes, so is it with him. Faith carries with it the child-making spirit. The apostle here explains by saying that Christ has redeemed us from under the Law that we might receive the adoption of sons. As before stated, all must be effected through faith. Now we have discussed the five points of the verse.
http://www.trinitylutheranms.org/MartinLuther/MLSermons/Galatians4_1_7.html

There is no universal reconciliation with Scripture, Luther or the Confessions. Christ indeed died and paid for all sins but all righteousness is in and of Christ. Without being in Christ and Christ in us by faith we do not have access to His Righteousness for the forgiveness of sins, Justification, righteousness and eternal life. These three are enjoyed instantly and fully only through the gracious work of faith, worked by the Holy Spirit through the Means of Grace alone.