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| http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post.html |
Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2008 |
The Christian Book of Concord declares it is by faith alone through which we are accepted by God and not before faith as Objective Justification teaches. BOC: 71] But when it is said that faith justifies, some perhaps understand it of the beginning, namely, that faith is the beginning of justification or preparation for justification, so that not faith itself is that through which we are accepted by God, Apology of the Augsburg Confession, That Faith in Christ Justifies. http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justificati on.php Joe Krohn, this BOC quote shows that your teaching that God has been propitious to those outside of faith in Christ is contrary to Scripture: Apology to the Augsburg "80] ...Thus, therefore, we prove the minor proposition. The wrath of God cannot be appeased if we set against it our own works, because Christ has been set forth as a Propitiator, so that for His sake, the Father may become reconciled to us. But Christ is not apprehended as a Mediator except by faith. Therefore, by faith alone we obtain remission of sins, when we comfort our hearts with confidence in the mercy promised for 81] Christ's sake." http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justificati on.php As does this quote from Luther: 74. But what is the process whereby Christ gives us such a spirit and redeems us from under the Law? The work is effected solely by faith. He who believes that Christ came to redeem us, and that he has accomplished it, is really redeemed. As he believes, so is it with him. Faith carries with it the child-making spirit. The apostle here explains by saying that Christ has redeemed us from under the Law that we might receive the adoption of sons. As before stated, all must be effected through faith. Now we have discussed the five points of the verse.</i>http://www.trinitylutheranms.org/MartinLuther/MLSe rmons/Galatians4_1_7.html In perfect harmony with 2 Corinth. 13:5 and opposed to the doctrine of Objective Justificaiton I quote Martin Luther on Faith, Justification and Cain-like saints who persecute the Holy Spirit’s faith: the righteousness of Christ: <i>12. As before said, they regard faith of slight importance; for they do not understand that it is our sole justifier. To accept as true the record of Christ--this they call faith. The devils have the same sort of faith, but it does not make them godly. Such belief is not Christian faith; no, it is rather deception. 15. ...You see how they make faith of no value to themselves, and so must regard as heresy all doctrine based upon it. Thus they do away with the whole Gospel. These are they who deny the Christian faith and exterminate it from the world. Paul prophesied concerning them when he said (1 Tim 4, 1): "In later times some shall fall away from the faith." The voice of faith is now silenced all over the world. Indeed, faith is condemned and banished as the worst heresy, and all who teach and endorse it are condemned with it. The Pope, the bishops, charitable institutions, cloisters, high schools, unanimously opposed it for nearly four hundred years, and simply drove the world violently into hell. Their conduct is the real persecution by Antichrist, in the last times. 22. Now, the Cain-like saints have not, as they themselves confess, theChristian faith which would assure them of being the children of God. http://www.trinitylutheranms.org/MartinLuther/MLSe rmons/Galatians4_1_7.html |
| Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2008 |
Pastor Rydecki faithfully translated BOC Confessor Aegigius Hunnius' Theses Opposed To Huberianism from Latin into English. In it Hunnius, who signed the BOC, along with Leyser were theologians at the University of Wittenberg hired to promote and defend Lutheran doctrine and return the local churches to confessionalism. Samuel Huber was teaching the same Objective Justification doctrine that most here promote and teach. It was firmly renounced by Hunnius in this book as opposed to Scripture, Christ and the Christian Book of Concord. The book is available via Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Theses-Opposed-Huberianism-L utheran-Justification/dp/1475186541/ref=sr_1_1?ie= UTF8&qid=1349747741&sr=8-1&keywords=hunnius |
| Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2008 |
Mr. Dortmund, through baptism rightly applied using God's Word a person dies to sin, is raised again in Faith toward Christ alone, is forgiven all sin and saved. 1 Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." Those being baptised and who reject Christ do not receive the forgiveness of sins but rather remain in their sins, are condemned and under God's wrath for their unbelief. You imply that unbelievers who are baptized and reject Christ are fogiven all sin. To be faithful to the Scripture I provided do you believe the unbeliever is saved? I would hope not - but then neither is he forgiven because of and on account of his unbelief. Those not rejecting Christ in baptism receive the promise of the Gospel - forgiveness of sins, adoption of Sons and salvation. The BOC quotes I provide teach that no one outside of faith is accepted by God (forgiven and declared righteous). Only faith worked graciously by the Holy Ghost, which Christ is the Author and Finisher of, makes of an unjust man a just man: a justified man. |
| Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2008 |
Joe, the Book of Concord states that reconciliation with God is only by faith graciously worked by the Holy Spirit through the Means of Grace and not as you teach - outside of the Means of Grace, before and without faith. 113] But faith, properly so called, is that which assents to the promise [is when my heart, and the Holy Ghost in the heart, says: The promise of God is true and certain]. Of 114] this faith Scripture speaks. And because it receives the remission of sins, and reconciles us to God, by this faith we are [like Abraham] accounted righteous for Christ's sake before we love and do the works of the Law, although love necessarily follows. 115]Nor, indeed, is this faith an idle knowledge, neither can it coexist with mortal sin, but it is a work of the Holy Ghost, whereby we are freed from death, and terrified minds are encouraged and quickened. 116] http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justificati on.php 86] But since we receive remission of sins and the Holy Ghost by faith alone, faith alone justifies, because those reconciled are accounted righteous and children of God, not on account of their own purity, but through mercy for Christ's sake, provided only they by faith apprehend this mercy. Accordingly, Scripture testifies that by faith we are accounted righteous, Rom. 3:26. We, therefore, will add testimonieswhich clearly declare that faith is that very righteousness by which we are accounted righteous before God, namely, not because it is a work that is in itself worthy, but because it receives the promise by which God has promised that for Christ's sake He wishes to be propitious to those believing in Him, or because He knows that Christ of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption, 1 Cor. 1:30. http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justificati on.php Paul on the contrary, teaches that we have access, i.e., reconciliation, through Christ. And to show how this occurs, he adds that we have access by faith. By faith, therefore, for Christ's sake, we receive remission of sins. We cannot set our own love and our own works over against God's wrath. http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justificati on.php |
Christian Schulz (Schulzcj) New member Username: Schulzcj Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2012 |
The Gospel is not: all have been justified (imputed with Christ's righteousness) prior to faith. Show me a chronology of the Catholic Church where it is consistently shown that the Christian Church has always taught an absolution of the individual sinner prior to repentance and faith. The closest you get, with context, is in the 1800s-ish. You guys are the morons who are obviously wholly un-Catholic. It almost made me laugh when I quoted the BoC earlier about the "voice of the Gospel." Whoever responded, I don't remember who, said that the BoC was wrong and continued to demonstrate that the voice of the Gospel is NOT JBFA (as the quote stated clearly) but rather justification (imputation of Christ's righteousness) prior to faith. At that point I promised myself I'd bow out because if we can't even read the Confessions for what they are, then there certainly isn't a point to continue "discussion." Plus I think we're all big boys and have been around the block. We've been in, witnessed, or even conducted many "UOJ" debates. We know where we all stand. We're just blowing steam at this point. It's absolutely useless. Again, universal imputation of Christ's righteousness (or justification) prior to faith is about as anti-Catholic as you can get. Put down Walther, Becker, et al. and what do you have? Random, out of context one liners. Sad. Christ died for all -- it is true -- every single person on earth. Before Christ, during Christ's earthly life, and all people after Christ's death and Resurrection. It is true. The Treasure stays in a pile, as Luther says. God eagerly distributes it through the means of grace by the Holy Spirit. Once a sinner receives the Treasure he is justified, holy, and righteous in God's sight. Christ is now used as the Mediator and Mercy Seat against God's wrath. However, Christ did NOT justify (impute his righteousness) to the whole world prior to faith, as "OJ" claims. The moron in this debate is the one who can't fathom that Christ justifies sinners here and now, one by one, through the means of grace. Christ has not justified the world. He has only justified the whole world if the whole world has believed on Him (A. Hunnius, Theses Opposed to Huberianism). Put the devilish dichotomies down which produce the the whorish doctrine of world imputation/absolution prior to faith. Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy indeed. |
Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 61 Registered: 1-2008 |
Mr. Dortmund, I believe and confess according to Scripture and the Confessions: 32] In the third place, since we have learned the great benefit and power of Baptism, let us see further who is the person that receives what Baptism gives and profits. 33] This is again most beautifully and clearly expressed in the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. That is, faith alone makes the person worthy to receive profitably the saving, divine water. For, since these blessings are here presented and promised in the words in and with the water, they cannot be received in any other way than by believing them with the heart. 34] Without faith it profits nothing, notwithstanding it is in itself a divine superabundant treasure. Therefore this single word (He that believeth) effects this much that it excludes and repels all works which we can do, in the opinion that we obtain and merit salvation by them. For it is determined that whatever is not faith avails nothing nor receives anything. http://www.bookofconcord.org/lc-6-baptism.php Mr. Pierson, do you reject the first, second or third statement which Huber was accused of? I disagree with your assertion of the essential aberration. I believe it was Justification without and before faith as evidenced in OJ teaching of Universal Justification, Universal Election and the regeneration of hypocrites in baptism which Mr. Dortmund seems to be alluding to. | ||
     Daniel Baker (Livinthehylife) New member Username: Livinthehylife Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2011 |
Funny you should bring up cruel jokes, Karl, because I have a good one for you: "I forgive you. ROFLMAO JK YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT, SO HA. You don't get to be forgiven. Too bad for you." It's a meaningless proclamation. "You are righteous, but since you don't believe it, you aren't really righteous, even though My Holy, immutable Word said you were." This is how the universal justification heresy reads. If I'm missing something, please illuminate me. |
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LPC has left a
new comment on your post "LutherQuest
(sic) Opposes Luther's Justification b...":
UOJ Stormtroopers love to run to Tom Hardt's essay that tries to make Walther clean from Huber's influence but one can detect from the essay that it was a damage control document. Hardt never quoted from Hunnius' work, for example the one that Pr. Rydecki translated.
Why do I bring Hunnius up against Hardt? It is because Hunnius wrote a lot against Huber so says the Errors of Missouri authors.
LPC
UOJ Stormtroopers love to run to Tom Hardt's essay that tries to make Walther clean from Huber's influence but one can detect from the essay that it was a damage control document. Hardt never quoted from Hunnius' work, for example the one that Pr. Rydecki translated.
Why do I bring Hunnius up against Hardt? It is because Hunnius wrote a lot against Huber so says the Errors of Missouri authors.
LPC
