Simpleman Jones has left a new comment on your post "The Keys Quotation Again":
GJ, does your response mean that I am correct in my assessment?
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "The Keys Quotation Again":
I know of at least 4 different versions of UOJ that are currently being taught, confessed and defended in the Lutheran Synods. Each of them contradict the others and all contradict Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions. UOJ does not have a BOC style confessional document to which they must hold.
I can tell you that your comparison is only 10% of the differences between UOJ and Christ's Gospel. Every aspect of UOJ is false and contradicts Scripture.
For instance you state, "OJ-SJ'ers say: When Christ died/rose, God declared all people forgiven and righteous." It is more involved than that. In general most UOJists will state that when Christ paid for the sins of the whole world, God removed the sin from the whole world and placed it on Christ. Therefore the world has no more sin, God the Father sees them as guiltless and sinless by His Divine verdict. Buchholz currently teaches that the whole world died to sin the moment Christ died to pay for their sins - this is rejected by most UOJists. UOJists are undecided as to when God declared the unbelieving world forgiven. Some believe it was when Christ declared, "It is finished" on the cross. Others believe it was when He died on the cross and others believe it was when Christ rose victorious from the grave.
You state, "Because God is timeless, this applied to Adam as well as to all people today." No, some UOJists believe Abraham was justified by faith alone but that following Christ's atonement it all changed. UOJists believe Abrahams faith was created by trusting the promise of forgiveness of sins through Christ. Modern UOJists teach that faith cannot be created by a promise. They teach faith can only be created by something that is already true - therefore the preaching that your sins are already forgiven to an unbeliever is the only thing which will create faith. The object of UOJ's faith is the declaration that your sins are already forgiven before you ever believed. The object of the Holy Spirit's faith is Christ and Him crucified.
I could go on and on through the entire UOJ confession.
I recommend reading (W)ELS Siegbert W. Becker's essay on Justification for a foundational view of UOJ. Most UOJists subscribe to what he writes. Buchholz is only publishing his version of UOJ to defend his excommunication and persecution of Christ's Church and is still trying to convince clergy and laity that his version is preferable to other weaker versions.
Becker's essay can be read here:
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BeckerUniversal.pdf
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LPC has left a new comment on your post "The Keys Quotation Again":
Simpleman,
My advice to you is not to say things in your own words rather, let the UOJer say things as they are and let the Scripture say also things as they are.
The reasons is because you could be misrepresenting UOJ in your head. For you can eventually conclude as some others that this difference is just semantics and there is really no harm to it.
So my advice is that you take the teaching of UOJers at face value and match them with Scripture and see where they fall. This is a more accurate procedure and a safe method to follow.
I have a different rendition than you.
For example, according to C F W Walther, father of US UOJ teaching, you are saved to believe. That is you are saved already, you just need to believe that you are.
JBFA people say what Scripture says. For example, St. Paul says, to the Philippian jailer, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
Acts 16:31
Also, Rom 3:
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
This passage clearly shows that faith in the atonement results in justification.
This is not the same in UOJ, in UOJ faith in justification as a finished fact is what they teach, so faith results in nothing.
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To the UOJer justification has no present nor future aspect. To the JBFA justification is present and has a future aspect, consistent with Scripture.
UOJ is a complete opposite from Scripture.
LPC
