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| Here's your "conservative Lutheran UOJ" guy! Bwa-ha-ha-ha. |
Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Brett Meyer and Dr. Lito Cruz Answer Simpleman":
Simpleman, I don't disagree with your assessment.
"Conservative Lutheran UOJer" is an oxymoron.
It's interesting that most UOJists correctly define the doctrine of one Justification solely by Faith in Christ Alone - they just condemn it.
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Brett Meyer and Dr. Lito Cruz Answer Simpleman":
A. Berean, "From their (OJ/SJ) standpoint, the Law condemns all men and the Gospel says that God has forgiven all men."
Berean is correct. In fact, it's worse than that. A popular version of UOJ, which ELS Pastor David J. Webber teaches, confesses that God the Father looks at the whole world of believers and unbelievers as in Christ and forgiven all sin - and that God the Father looks at all believers and unbelievers outside of Christ and they all are under His wrath.
Pastor David J. Webber, "In Christ, as God looks at the world through Christ, all are under divine mercy and are forgiven, and are therefore invited to believe and be saved. But outside of Christ, as God looks at the world apart from Christ, all are under divine wrath and judgment, and are condemned. The same people - namely all people - are under consideration in each case."
http://extranos.blogspot.com/2010/03/grinding-my-ax.html
(Page 35 when converted to PDF)
Where in Scripture or the BOC does God say that He looks at believers in Christ as being outside of Christ and are under his wrath?
So (W)ELS excommunicates those they say commit the heresy of teaching men are justified solely by faith in Christ alone while announcing God's forgiveness on the whole unbelieving world who reject Christ and are under the Law. I believe Proverbs 17:15 speaks to this, "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord."
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Simpleman Jones has left a new comment on your post "UOJ Is Not Even Christian, So Let's Not Call It "...":
I would definitely not call LCMS and WELS pastors non-Christian. And I would still call them, like Buchholz, Patterson, and Lillo, conservative Lutherans.
I'm still waiting to hear from those Lutherans who teach universal objective justification concerning my assessment.
Until then, I have a question concerning the Knapp quote. I don't know anything about him, but his quote sounds like he taught the right thing, but just used the wrong phrase.
"Objective justification" is the wrong phrase.
God "proffers pardon to all through Christ" is a correct idea. For "proffers" means that He offers it to all (not that He already gave it to all)...which is atonement.
His "subjective" word then describes justification by faith.
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GJ - I figured you were a troll, Tim Simpleman, so why not use your real name?
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "UOJ Is Not Even Christian, So Let's Not Call It "...":
Simpleman, let's take Siegbert W. Becker's essay on Justification. If we are to place the best construction on that effort by Sig to write, proof read and then publish that essay we would say he meant every thing he said.
Now, it is clear that Sig does not believe men are forgiven solely by the Holy Spirit worked faith which God works through the Means of Grace alone. Christ's Gospel declares that men are only forgiven by faith in Christ.
It's clear also that Sig does not attribute eternal salvation to Justification. Christ's Gospel teaches that Justification is eternal salvation: justification of life.
Also clear that UOJists like Buchholz, Schroeder, Webber, Moldstad, Harrison etc believe and teach that if men are Justified solely by faith in Christ alone then faith becomes a work of man and is synergistic - which is condemned by God. Scripture teaches exactly the opposite.
Clear to is the fact that UOJ anathematizes one Justification solely by faith in Christ alone. Scripture teaches what UOJ condemns.
Every teaching of the various versions of the doctrine of UOJ contradicts Scripture and subsequently contradict the Lutheran Confessions.
What then is your thought process in which those who teach and defend UOJ to the point of excommunicating those who have faithfully taught one Justification solely by faith in Christ alone - are considered Lutheran? Even conservative Lutherans? And since Buchholz clarified just how wide the gulf is between UOJ and Justification by Faith Alone - how is it you consider him a Christian?
Interested in your explanation as I believe it's also held by the Intrepid Lutherans and others.
