Saturday, February 4, 2012

Using Guilt by Association - An Old But Useful Logical Fallacy



Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Going the Extra Mile in Research - So You Can Enjo...":

The UOJists who falsely accuse me of heresy when I contend for Justification by Faith Alone have blamed you, Pastor Jackson, for poisoning me against their doctrine of UOJ. But it was long before we met that the problems with UOJ were brought to my attention. I was speaking to a Baptist about works righteousness being a part of making a decision for Christ. He laughed and said that it was 'us' Lutherans who teach works righteous through faith since 'we' teach the world is forgiven before faith and we just need to make a decsion to believe it. Wha...wh...? I started to study after that.

***

GJ - They fail to realize that publishing draws the like-minded together. Publishing also attracts opponents, who keep us sharp.

I am glad that the Wisconsin Sect finally bared its fangs with the NNIV. If that did not alert people about the apostate professors at the seminary, then this little blog will not accomplish the task with a few Photoshops. That stable needs to be cleaned. Missouri could not face its problems either, until they blew up in their face - and that was good for them.

Event: 'Relationship Wars: Why Lasting Love Is So Hard to Find' | Bethany Lutheran College, Mankato, MN

Event: 'Relationship Wars: Why Lasting Love Is So Hard to Find' | Bethany Lutheran College, Mankato, MN:

'via Blog this'

***

GJ - He calls himself a Christian, not a Lutheran, on his Facebook page. That is what we need - more generic speakers transforming lives.

Information about him seems slight.

Going the Extra Mile in Research - So You Can Enjoy the Superbowl



Joe Krohn found an interesting post denouncing Objective Justification and linked it on his blog.

http://heartoftn.net/users/gary27/Objectiv.htm

I usually Google new names, to see what comes up.

In this case, the author was Gary Ray Branscome.

The first thing I noticed was a new post on Herman Otten's blog that was not quite anti-OJ but could be read that way.

http://christiannewsmo.blogspot.com/2012/02/justification-by-faith-alone-material.html

I am always uneasy with affirmations that lack negative statements. Every clear confession needs the negative side to avoid ambiguity. "Error loves ambiguities." Mormons believe in the Trinity, they say, but they do not denounce three separate persons because they are not Trinitarian.

Herman Otten's Christian News is a UOJ shop, although he waffles toward justification by faith at times. Like Rolf Preus, he will always come down on the UOJ side when pressed.

That is why I found the Branscome post so oddly out of place when I just read an anti-UOJ post from the same author.

So I looked again, Google-searching the name.

Here is Gary posting against infant baptism:

http://heartoftn.net/users/gary27/caseagin.htm

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Going the Extra Mile in Research - So You Can Enjo...":

The UOJists who falsely accuse me of heresy when I contend for Justification by Faith Alone have blamed you, Pastor Jackson, for poisoning me against their doctrine of UOJ. But it was long before we met that the problems with UOJ were brought to my attention. I was speaking to a Baptist about works righteousness being a part of making a decision for Christ. He laughed and said that it was 'us' Lutherans who teach works righteous through faith since 'we' teach the world is forgiven before faith and we just need to make a decsion to believe it. Wha...wh...? I started to study after that.

---

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Going the Extra Mile in Research - So You Can Enjo...":

As you know I was accused of being a heretic myself, and to be shunned and avoided.

It is really insulting for me to say I was poisoned; it means, I have no mind of my own and could not discern things for myself.

LPC

***

GJ - Lito and Brett, they have nothing left but insults and logical fallacies.

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http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190&cpage=3#comment-281918

Author: Lito Cruz
Comment:
<a href="#comment-281793" rel="nofollow">@John Standley #32 </a>

John,

Did you see what I mean? The condescension?

Read Dr. Kilcrease  at

<a href="#comment-281905" rel="nofollow">@Dr. Jack Kilcrease #36 </a>

Kilcrease brands Team JBFA as <i>Most of his followers tend to be people who are not very well versed in theology</i>. We are Galileans, we are unlearned that is why we are fooled.

Despite the fact that we have offered and given reasonable doubt on their famous UOJ verse, Romans 4:25 we are ignorant in theology, right. We can not read and we do not exercise critical thinking 101.

You open every commentary on this, the only interpretation that slightly support their contention about Romans 4:25 is Everett Harrison's commentary on Romans, see Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol 10. There he speaks about accomplishment, but in the end of his long exposition he offers a caveat, he says, of course, the justification mentioned there in that verse is justification through faith.

Just for your info, I have 4 degrees, 1 degree is in Religious Studies (specialising in Biblical Languages, 2-4 years in Classical/Koine Greek,1 year Biblical Hebrew), it is a degree between a Bachelor and a Master's degree(http://www.latrobe.edu.au/). My prof was G H R Horsley who authored a multivolume set found here http://books.google.com.au/books/about/New_documents_illustrating_early_Christi.html?id=28YyARfAsesC&amp;redir_esc=y

Over here, we do not parade our academic accomplishments, it is bad form. We only do it for ethical reasons because if we are a doctor and we don't say it, we are misrepresenting ourselves specially when we are in a career situation.

John, the mark of a person who has no argument is to insult you.

LPC

***

GJ - Ach, Lito - do not fall for his anti-Jacobs rant. Academic qualifications often get in the way of discernment. Poor Jack was trained by ELCA and next by the Jesuits at Marquette, the little school where Notre Dame graduates go to do their student teaching.

Kilcrease is annoyed by people running circles around his pet opinion. Academic theologians like to start some new fad or flog some dog-eared theory. Going back and forth gives them visibility. One man, with far better credentials than anything on Kilcrease's light resume, argued that Jesus founded a mushroom cult. As the impressed book seller told me, "Look! He has 400 footnotes!"

My unscientific study of justification-by-faith stalwarts yields this conclusion - almost all of them are laity.


David Becker Laughs Out Loud

Pastor Herman Otten and his wife Grace.

----

David Becker has left a new comment on your post "Jury Trial Set for WELS Ex-Church Official Joel Ho...":

Hi Pastor Jackson, as you may know, after not submitting items to Christian News (and not even subscribing for six years) for a long time, I have picked it up again, and am sending CN stuff for whatever the editor may choose to print. Pastor Otten does not surf the Internet (not sure how much his wife or children do), but he has expressed his appreciation for my sending him whatever I believe to be potentially CN-worthy, from whatever I may find on the Internet. I have taken note of this article. There is nothing new in it except mentioning a jury date. Once a not guilty or guilty verdict is reached, or a change in plea is made, or some other significant new development is published and documented, I will forward it to CN for their consideration. (Of course there is nothing stopping CN from citing the article apart from me if they want to.)

I will also comment generally that although I don't agree with everything you say or how you say it (though you are frequently laugh-out-loud funny), I do appreciate your standing up for what you believe and do believe your voice is important and worthy of consideration. I did go through the PDF file of your new book on Justification by Faith and do believe it is worthy of reading. I did wonder about the statement in your Foreword, "This book is dedicated to all the faithful Lutherans, often unnamed, who have encouraged research into this vital topic of justification by faith. Two of them became Roman Catholics in their frustration with the pitiful ignorance of the so-called conservative Lutheran leaders and professors." Two of them became Roman Catholics? How is that good? [GJ - Missing word - "Unfortunately," two of them... I blame UOJ for their defection.]

One post that I agreed with that you wrote was at http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/08/universalism-everywhere-elca-rome-syn.html. You wrote, "Telling anyone 'You are saved' without discerning faith in Christ alone for salvation, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit at work in the Word."

God willing, I may address this issue in something I might send in the future to CN. I was concerned to read on Lutherquest, "the object of our faith is not something like; 'Jesus died for me and if I believe that, God will credit it to me as righteousness'. It sounds very pious to say that; 'Christ with his perfect righteousness and satisfaction is the object of faith', but our faith is not merely in the Atonement." I thought about arguing about that on LQ but figured it would be a waste of time and effort.

In any event, that's all for now, and hope you and yours have a blessed day.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

David Becker

***

GJ - David, you will have to explain the humorous parts to Tim Glende. He doesn't get it.

UOJ Enthusiasts are a perfect example of this passage:


KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them
strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Lutheran H.S. principal apologizes for DUI arrest - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Michael Brandt
Future hymnal editor, I am sure.


Lutheran H.S. principal apologizes for DUI arrest - 13 WTHR Indianapolis:


INDIANAPOLIS -
An Indianapolis high school principal apologized to his students and their families after his arrest on drunk driving charges.

Police say 44-year-old Michael Brandt was nearly twice the legal limit for alcohol (.15) when he was stopped for speeding just after midnight last Sunday. Police say the smell of alcohol hit them when Brandt opened his car window. His speech was slurred and police say he failed the field sobriety test.

He was arrested for DUI, speeding and not having a signed car registration.

Brandt has been principal at Lutheran High School on South Arlington Avenue for a year after teaching at the school for two decades.

He told Eyewitness News by phone Tuesday he'd made a "terrible mistake" and that while his school community expects him to be a leader, "I failed to lead." In a letter to parents and students, he asked forgiveness and says he plans to own his mistake.

School parents who spoke with Eyewitness News were surprised but supportive of Brandt whom they called a "good man."

"It's difficult. Everyone makes mistakes," said parent Sara Bauman. "My inclination would be to forgive and move on."

At a school event Tuesday evening, some families were supportive of their principal.

"I don't really want to comment on the situation," said parent Kris Goff. "I will say this. Mr. Brandt is a fantastic person, fantastic principal, great with the kids."

Brandt says he was on his way home from a family-friendly social event when he stopped "and had some drinks at a local establishment."

He tells Eyewitness News he is working to make sure it never happens again.



'via Blog this'

***

GJ - WELS does not apologize.

They transfer him if it is a DP, export him to foreign missions if he is a pastor,  shout Ein Prosit! if he is a worship professor.

---

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Lutheran H.S. principal apologizes for DUI arrest ...":

I see it's a LCMS HS:
http://lhsi.org/about/facts

Lutheran High School is fully accredited by...the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod...

At Least They Are Not Hosting Leonard Sweet This Time!



It's a good thing they got rid of that old liberal Kieschnick. Now they have a rock-ribbed conservative as Synod President. Harrison mentions Walther and the entire Midwest region sighs in ecstasy.

All the ELCA seminaries are overwhelmingly in favor of homosexual ordination and marriage. Woe to anyone who dissents from the new orthodoxy. Thus "conservative" Missouri is doing its best to create doctrinal indifference while pretending otherwise.


The Jesus Mockery by Glende and Ski:
Fox Valley, WELS




Pastor Spencer said...
I know I and others have referred to the following quote before on Intrepid Lutherans, but once again it bears repeating and emphasizing -

"284] All this has been said regarding secret sins. But where the sin is quite public so that the judge and everybody know it, you can without any sin avoid him and let him go, because he has brought himself into disgrace, and you may also publicly testify concerning him. For when a matter is public in the light of day, there can be no slandering or false judging or testifying; as, when we now reprove the Pope with his doctrine, which is publicly set forth in books and proclaimed in all the world. For where the sin is public, the reproof also must be public, that every one may learn to guard against it." (Luther's Large Catechism, 8th Commandment)

Putting the "best construction" on something does NOT apply to what is clearly and manifestly wrong and done openly and in the public eye. The issue is not what might have been intended, or the content of the sermons, or even the implication of being able to improve on Jesus' parables. That was not the point of the complaint by Mr. Heyer. The point was certainly impudence, irreverence, if not sheer blasphemy. Two errors are combined - the false theology behind the concept of the so-called "Sacred Heart of Jesus," and the wrongfulness of using an image so closely connected with the clearly blasphemous content of the movie "Dogma." As was pointed out, the issue is the seemingly complete lack of spiritual discernment on the part of the shepherds of The CORE. Their choice of advertising material is more than just irreverent, it is offensive to their brothers and sisters throughout the WELS. It is they who need to apologize. That's the issue. Again, it is NOT a matter of putting some manner of kind interpretation on the ad. It is what it is - and what it is, is wrong. Period!

***

GJ - I was trying to track the original sermons using Google Images. To do that, I used "funny Jesus" as the search. If you want to be disgusted, try that with the filters removed.

You will see that the graphic used by The CORE is one used universally to mock the Savior. That is the point, using mockery to promote the service. It is not a congregation, as they pretend, but the evening service in Emergent Church mode. Another group in the same building does the same thing. In fact, I understand Appleton already had a number of successful Emergent Church schemes before Glende and Ron Ash got funds for The CORE.

Although both boys are now middle-aged, The CORE website is juvenile and foolish, really clever for a web design 101 class.


KJV Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are
ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Steadfast Politicians or Lutherans?



Narrow-minded Lutheran has left a new comment on your post "Steadfast Cowards Kill Their Own Thread":

Is BJS more concerned with Church politics than meaningful theological discussions? Is quoting anyone other than the venerated Walther automatically heretical on BJS?

I find it humorous that anti-UOJ-ers are labeled as "Methodist wannabes." This illustrates the devaluation of the Means of Grace. Actually, Walther in his Easter Sermon is the Arminian. "All that's left to do is for you to accept it."

One can't claim to value Word and Sacrament while pooh-poohing the efficacy of these Means of Grace. Why did the Holy Ghost descend on Pentecost if we were all forgiven? Why do we Baptize babies if they are already forgiven?

This is the ultimate leap of faith: To baptize a baby who can't articulate his/her faith and believe that the child is saved. It doesn't make sense from a standpoint of human reason or emotion, by I believe it with all my heart, because Scripture and our Confessions say so.

To carry this out to its conclusion, how can one believe that Jesus is really there in the bread and wine? Because He says so.

***

GJ - NPH lovingly reprinted J. P. Meyer, who is worse than Walther. Meyer has people making a decision for UOJ. Perhaps that is better rather than worse. Meyer is more obvious.

Recently Gnesio Lutheran posted my Walther graphic about the Easter absolution. Apparently they endorse his Enthusiasm too.

That suits me, because people should admit what they truly believe or disbelieve.

No one needs permission to use my graphics.
No one needs to credit my hours of lower-back pain either.
Rogue Lutheran does,  but it is not required or expected.

From Universal Objective Justification to Unitarian Universalist Association:
UOJ to UUA

Karl Barth, family, and mistress Charlotte Kirschbaum.
Barth and Kirschbaum were reds.


One definition among many, since Enthusiasts wobble all over the map:

For example, in 1919 the "Universalist Leader", the major weekly magazine of the denomination, printed the "Essential Principles of the Universalist Faith" on the cover of each issue. After stating the beliefs in Jesus Christ, the Bible, "the certainty of just retribution for sin", and a belief that everyone goes to heaven it states: "Neither this nor any other precise form of words is required as a condition of fellowship." In other words you don't really need to believe in our dogma to join us. Even in the 19th century some Universalists felt that belief in the Winchester Profession was optional.

The religious survey printed in a book called "What Americans Believe" indicates that 8% of people who have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ agreed with the option: "When you die, you will go to Heaven because God loves all people and will not let them perish." These people are universalists (but most have no idea what the word means).

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What Is Christian Universalism: The basic principle of "Christian Universalism" was well stated by Thomas Whittmore in his book "Plain Guide to Universalism" written in 1840, where he wrote,

"The glory of God, and of His Son Jesus Christ, as manifested in the final holiness and happiness of all men, is the central sun of Universalism." He also stated that "all persons, who truly believe in the eventual salvation of all mankind by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, are Universalists."

Thomas J. Sawyer: " Universalism," in its simple and proper theological sense, is the doctrine of universal salvation; or in other words, of the final holiness and happiness of all humans, to be effected by the grace of God, through the ministry of his Son, Jesus Christ.

---

Answers.com
Universalism
  1. Theology. The doctrine of universal salvation.
  2. Unitarian Universalism.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/universalism#ixzz1lQOn06cl

***

GJ -

Karl Barth embraced "the restoration of all things" when he was not embracing Charlotte Kirschbaum. That phrase is used to justify universal salvation and perhaps a time of punishment for sins.

Barth is the best example of a team that could write voluminously without believing in much at all. As Robert Preus said, "All you have to do is read Barth's introduction." Luther said the Enthusiasts reject the Word but fill the world with their own words. The Word of God is not able or sufficient, but their words are, so we should discard God's Word for theirs. That is ridiculous.

Thus Luther described the UOJ Enthusiasts well. They cannot win with the Scriptures, Confessions, or the history of doctrine, so they hurl insults and hide the evidence.

Jack Kilcrease wants to lecture everyone on his opinion, on multiple blogs. He has his own, so he can use that as his personal sandbox.

The UOJ Stormtroopers deny their Universalism. Their dogmatism would keep them out of the UUA - which does have standards. However, the basic parallel is valid. When DP Buchholz says "everyone is  saved, period, end of story," he is embracing the central tenet of Universalism.

Going through some links will show that Universalism and Unitarianism are non-dogmatic. They are free-thinkers to the max. That also describes UOJ. Once world absolution is proclaimed, sound doctrine does not matter and the Law is obliterated.

When Bob Schumann took over St. Paul, German Village (Columbus), he was famous for two passions - Church Growth and Antinominism. Some said, apologetically, "He is a Jungkuntz." Schumann denied Creation and said the Ten Commandments were obsolete. Such sentiments were the reasons why St. Paul left the American Lutheran Church under Pastor Lange. So it only took one pastorate (Roehl's) for the congregation to sink back into mainline Protestantism.

UOJ is the greatest force for ecumenism since clergy adultery. With UOJ no confession of faith needs to divide one group from another. WELS leaders can secretly rejoice in their unity with ELCA, because both believe that God has forgiven the entire world. Missouri can chime in with "Me too! Walther lived it and taught it, even though he was a divisive autocrat."

The Church of Rome teaches that every single denomination is a part of Roman Catholicism, whether they comprehend that truth or not. They are all defective parts, but they remain subordinate units of the One, True, Visible Church. Since Rome cannot provide true doctrinal unity, they only demand organizational unity. ELCA pastors and LCMS ministers are clamoring for a ride on the Whore of Babylon.

One WELS professor was near death in the hospital, which was Roman Catholic, in Milwaukee. He opened his eyes and saw nuns. He said, "The Scriptures testify that the pope is the very Antichrist."



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There is a new comment to Justification Central to Lutheran Hymnody.
Comment Link: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190&cpage=3#comment-281793
Author: John Standley
Comment:
A quick amendment to my last comment (I hope no one has responded to my first one yet):

So because we, firstly and subjectively, disobeyed God, He objectively declared all those who don't come to faith will die in the sin their first parents wrought.

He objectively sent his son to live perfectly for us so that we MIGHT be subjectively forgiven and therefore receive the status of "saint" and have salvation.

By him objectively (and I guess subjectively too, being that he is both God and man) sending his Son into the world doesn't mean that automatically it overturns his original "objective condemnation."

He clearly says in Scripture he only overturns his objective condemnation if they believe His Son died on account of their specific sins (original and willful sins).

He does not say that before faith, His Son's sacrifice he gives them forgiveness of sins and eternal life. To say that forgiveness of sins and salvation are exclusive is ridiculous. I don't have my BoC on me but I recently read Luther or another Concordist who said that if we speak of receiving the forgiveness of sins we therefore have to be receiving salvation with it. So if UOJ says we receive the forgiveness of sins, being holy and a saint, prior to faith, then we therefore are saved prior to faith (universalism).

Maybe the terms of UOJ aren't what they're cracked up to be. Maybe they're creating more confusion than what was intended. That is obvious, at least, in the Wisconsin Synod.

Again, my opinion is open to criticism from both parties.

Steadfast Cowards Kill Their Own Thread


Steadfast Cowards:
The Brothers of John the Steadfast (BJS) started a few years ago with Klemet Preus on our blog roll and now we are pleased to add a fresh, new, young Preus to our Brother’s Cafe. Andrew Preus, nephew of Klemet, a student at St. Catherine’s Seminary (Ontario, Canada) and editor of the student newspaper. His first post will appear today and is appropriately centered on justification, the key doctrine of the faith. Included in his first post is some more biographical stuff.

The young Preus was brought to our attention by Jonathan Fisk of Worldview Everlasting. Fisk has also agreed to serve on the board of directors of BJS which is just one of many changes that will be coming to the brotherhood in the coming year.

Associate Editor Scheer has also been noodling some improvements for BJS. He has been recruiting some additional bloggers so that we can keep our content fresh, rich and coming to you at a brisk pace. In the next few months we will also be reviewing our membership, chapter, and other procedures so that we can better fulfill our goals.

The Brothers of John the Steadfast, brings together Lutheran laymen to defend and promote the orthodox Christian faith which is taught in the Lutheran Confessions, provide financial support for Christian new media (e.g. Issues, Etc.), and to support other endeavors selected by its membership that defend and promote the cause of confessional Lutheranism.

***

GJ -

Currently, the original Andrew Preus maiden post starts here.

The "more" link has stopped working, so the complete post is not viewable. The teaser part indicates 416 comments.

Some might say, "But I can link from the comments sent to my email as follow-up." Here is that link, which does not work.

What happened? Various people, on their own, began responding to the absurd claims of forgiveness without faith (UOJ), which Andrew Preus introduced and defended. The UOJ Stormtroopers began chiming in: Jack Kilcrease (Roman Catholic adjunct), Jay Webber, Jim Pierce, Paul McCain. Several UOJ Enthusiasts quit several times. I made a few comments, quoted Robert Preus, and linked Luther versus the UOJ Pietists. One of my comments was blocked, so I quit posting.

Dr. Lito Cruz and Brett Meyer showed unusual stamina in answering all objections to the efficacy of the Word in the Means of Grace. They were the only regulars from Ichabod, a fact which probably unnerved the UOJ crowd. There are many more opponents to UOJ than they feared, more than I hoped.

The last comment came from a Rev. James Schulz, who wrote:

".. the culture of WELS is not disposed to free and open discussion when it comes to clarifying the formulation of Objective/Subjective Justification terminology. "Heresy" and "heretic" come out pretty quickly even when Buchholz' paper is suggested as a starting point of discussion. And as Mr. Standley and I can both attest, Becker's essays are still being used as a primary source in WELS worker training schools for the definition of Objective/Subjective Justification.


That must have been a co-inky-dink, to have the discussion killed at that point. Maybe the servers were overheating. But now the entire discussion is hidden. And Steadfast Lutherans think they are the solution...to what? Dictatorial Holy Mother Synod worship?

I consider hiding the discussion to be a disorganized retreat from the topic they introduced and defended with ardor. Now they are licking their wounds at LaughQuest. Who? Andrew Preus, who began the post. Rolf Preus, his father. Jim Pierce, the UOJ loyalist.

As before, the personal attacks, guilt by association, and logical fallacies were used by the UOJ tribe to obscure their weak, contradictory, and anti-Christian argumentation.

Gorillas scream and beat their chests when they are afraid. False teachers try flattery at first, then bullying, threats, and insults.

Scaer teaches with Enthusiasm.