Polluted WELS Blog Comments
Joel Lillo said...
Please note that the only reason that I have a deleted post between these two posts is that I accidently posted the same thing twice and deleted the identical post.
Das tuit (sic) mir leid!
Das tuit (sic) mir leid!
Jeffery Clark said...
I'm not sure I would say this blog is "bashing" the WELS.
I recently defined "bashing" on a Facebook group I am an admin of as:
Bashing is a harsh, gratuitous, prejudicial statement with no intent to constructively contribute to a discussion on the merits and faults of something or someone in an intelligible (or articulate) way.
If your statement is not meant to constructively contribute to the discussion, it probably is bashing. For sarcasm and other kinds of remarks, the test has to be "would a common person, with no knowledge of the situation, come to the conclusion that it is sarcasm?"
I recently defined "bashing" on a Facebook group I am an admin of as:
Bashing is a harsh, gratuitous, prejudicial statement with no intent to constructively contribute to a discussion on the merits and faults of something or someone in an intelligible (or articulate) way.
If your statement is not meant to constructively contribute to the discussion, it probably is bashing. For sarcasm and other kinds of remarks, the test has to be "would a common person, with no knowledge of the situation, come to the conclusion that it is sarcasm?"
Gregory Jackson said...
Joel Lillo, you can't even spell in German.
Joel Lillo said...
Das tut mir leid, Greggy boy!
Joel Lillo said...
Here's one for you, Greggy Jackson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
Randall Schultz said...
Joel,
Since you asked, I will do my best to respond in a civil manner. Those of us who are not ashamed of being Confessional Lutherans usually have a dog in this fight. I do not believe that disputing us will accomplish much. At the risk of beating a dead horse, CoWo is lame at best and usually destructive at worst. This why so many of us oppose it.
Since you asked, I will do my best to respond in a civil manner. Those of us who are not ashamed of being Confessional Lutherans usually have a dog in this fight. I do not believe that disputing us will accomplish much. At the risk of beating a dead horse, CoWo is lame at best and usually destructive at worst. This why so many of us oppose it.
There is a reason why Confessional Lutherans will appear here and other places where their voice will be heard. I was informed by Greg Jackson that Ichabod is getting 3000 page views per day. In spite of synod leaders efforts, we will not go away.
Being a life long WELS member, I can remember when there was a time that there was a whole lot more accountability in the leadership. In 1961, our pastor was caught committing adultery with one of the members. He was permanently out of the public ministry. He was well liked by his members, but there was a lot at stake there.
Demographics aside, there are several reasons why WELS membership has declined from a peak of about 420,000 members. The problem here is that the leadership simply will not fess up to it. To do so would mean that they have been wrong about pushing CGM so much.
The real casualty manifests itself in the manner in which dissenters are often treated. Just look at what happened to Pastor Paul Rydecki or Pastor Kevin Hastings of old historic St. John's, to name a few. I have witnessed elders getting brow beat over nothing at meetings. While it is true that this is not happening everywhere, the selective nature of it is truly frightening. Some members will figure this out. If you have the right name or are in the proper circle, you can be given a free pass. Others are not so fortunate.
Then there is the "8 and 18 switch". One member once told me "Matthew Chapter 18 is the most popular part of the Bible in the WELS". Likewise, speaking the truth in love is often met with a law whacking from the 8th commandment. It reminds me of that line from Luther, "false teachers flay their disciples to the bone".
So this is a small sample of why I said that you could give up on us. I have managed to avoid a personal attack and I am really not interested in flaming on a blog. My comment about being outed has to do with your posts that sort of stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of them.
Also, this is my real name and I will use it. I am employed in a secular environment, so I am not concerned about loss of income. Others may post anonymously because they they fear the type of backlash that I have mentioned in this post. I respect their choice.
Finally, I will not write letters to the DP, synod HQ, the members of my congregation, my pastor, the circuit pastor, etc. Most of them know of the shenanigans with the exception of the laity who are out of the loop. That is not their fault if they have not been informed. I will not pursue the "proper channels" because I have neither the time or the patience to be jacked around or ignored.
In Christ,
Randall Schultz
Anonymous said...
A somewhat similar situation occurred in a metropolitan area (no, not in the state of Wisconsin) in which there were 4 area WELS congregations. One of the pastors who led a small, somewhat struggling congregation was an old college/seminary friend with a pastor in one of the other 4 congregations in the area (which was the large, growing "star" congregation of the area). Although no one in the small congregation wanted it,
both pastors become strong proponents of merging the 2 churches into one, with 2 pastors (yep, the two old college buddies) serving the newly merged congregation. The argument was "why are 4 WELS churches needed, when one could serve the area?". So not only was there a strong attempt to close the smaller church, but conceivably an attempt to close the other 2 congregations in the area also.
Although there was no support in the smaller church (and debatable support in the larger), this topic monopolized the smaller church for years as an attempt was made to close it and merge with the larger church. Twice, the smaller church voted by a super majority not to merge. The smaller congregation, what was left of it, was in a traumatized state.
Ironically, both pastors no longer serve in the WELS ministry (or any other ministry). It was actually somewhat of a sad ending on so many levels. I had heard of such political dealings in WELS before, but had never experienced such events first hand.
both pastors become strong proponents of merging the 2 churches into one, with 2 pastors (yep, the two old college buddies) serving the newly merged congregation. The argument was "why are 4 WELS churches needed, when one could serve the area?". So not only was there a strong attempt to close the smaller church, but conceivably an attempt to close the other 2 congregations in the area also.
Although there was no support in the smaller church (and debatable support in the larger), this topic monopolized the smaller church for years as an attempt was made to close it and merge with the larger church. Twice, the smaller church voted by a super majority not to merge. The smaller congregation, what was left of it, was in a traumatized state.
Ironically, both pastors no longer serve in the WELS ministry (or any other ministry). It was actually somewhat of a sad ending on so many levels. I had heard of such political dealings in WELS before, but had never experienced such events first hand.
