Tuesday, September 23, 2014

The Ski-Glende-SP Schroeder-Engelbrecht Scandal:
How the Venom Drips from Certain WELS Observers




The other side of the story finally comes out.
SHATTEREDPULPIT.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY LILLIAN ARMSTRONG

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  • Christian Schulz and Joe Jewell like this.
  • Christian Schulz Worse than I thought...but people still defend this man despite the obvious? And people write it off and side with holy mother WELS. It's sad. It's disgusting. Will change happen? Doubt it. They told her the same thing they tell many, be silent and go through "the proper channels" so that they can effectively do absolutely nothing and easily pull an 8/18 if you do finally speak out. Sickening.
    11 hrs · Like · 2
  • Gregory L. Jackson It is far worse than the write-up.
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Christian Schulz But you're Dr. Jackson and everything you say is made up, right? 
    11 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
  • Carolyn M. Schallert I don't believe this, more so because she's gone online with her story, nowhere in here does she state that she went to the police and also does anybody realize that she might just have made the whole thing up because she didn't like the pastor of the ...See More
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Christian Schulz Called it.
    11 hrs · Like · 3
  • Carolyn M. Schallert You know Christian Schulz, one is allowed to be skeptical of this, I am not arguing against anybody, I am merely stating my own opinions or is that something one shouldn't do with this? I thought this was a page where we could discuss our opinions and not get yelled at for them?
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Beckie Grunewald If this story reflects what I think it does (hence the main issue I have with this type of stuff - because there's NO WAY OF VERIFYING) then the matter of sexual harassment is public knowledge. However, I will say this to any and all women being sexual...See More
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Jeffrey Schallert I don't generally like to wade into such matters, since the three most beautiful words in the English language, "Nunna my business," do apply. But I hope all who are very angered and shocked by this story might at least excuse those of us who doubt it...See More
    11 hrs · Edited · Like · 2
  • Jeffrey Schallert Beckie Grunewald is absolutely right. Sexual harassment is a crime, and a matter for police investigation, not internet outrage.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Roger Pankow A couple of things strike me about this. When and if you experience this at first, should it not be addressed immediately? I can't relate, so I'm just asking. It must be very difficult to do that. At any rate, I believe as a synod we could do much ...See More
    10 hrs · Like
  • Steve Spencer I don't know how much more the person writing this is going to reveal about the entire process, but I know that the proper authorities were contacted, both civil and synodical. Also, the entire matter is part of public court proceedings thus already pu...See More
    10 hrs · Like · 8
  • Joe Jewell Jeffrey Schallert and Carolyn M. Schallert I agree with you that the victim should get a lawyer and sue. By "should", I mean, that's what I would probably do, especially after not receiving redress from the Synod and the pastors in question. However, i...See More
    Recently, two WELS Pastors, Tim Glende and James...
    VDMA.WORDPRESS.COM
    10 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
  • Paul Lidtke I have chosen in the past to remain on the sidelines of this discussion. But since I was directly involved in the aftermath by the pastor who now serves the victim--and yes, folks, let's get it straight, that's what "Jane" is--I can tell you that she i...See More
    9 hrs · Like · 8
  • Paul Lidtke By the way, it was determined by the district president who first handled this case that the pastor in question was not guilty of sexual harassment but of "boorish behavior." So there seems little reason to expect the police to handle what is most dist...See More
    9 hrs · Like · 5
  • Daniel Baker Since we are called to take our neighbor's words and actions in the kindest possible way, and since on the public record the head "pastor" involved in this scandal admitted that the resignation occurred on account of this criminal wrong-doing, and sinc...See More
    9 hrs · Edited · Like · 7
  • Joe Jewell Agreed, Daniel Baker. Thank you, Pastor Paul Lidtke for your confirmation.
    9 hrs · Like
  • Beckie Grunewald I do agree with you guys, but remember that in the blog itself none of that is mentioned. Someone outside of this circle may read that blog and wonder the same things that have been mused about here. What was initially said that it was hard to believe ...See More
    8 hrs · Like · 1
  • Daniel Baker And that's a fair thing to point out. But questioning the veracity of her story simply because "nowhere in here does she state that she went to the police" or because "she might just have made the whole thing up because she didn't like the pastor of the church" are not.
    8 hrs · Like · 2
  • Carolyn M. Schallert if any part of this blog is true, realize that it is not in the blog, she doesn't give dates or anything so how are we to know this was true or not?
    8 hrs · Like
  • Daniel Baker Once again, a fair question, and hopefully she dispenses with anonymity eventually, but as we can all imagine the immense weight a victim of such a crime must feel, and given the fact that a WELS Pastor in good standing has confirmed the veracity of the account, we need not speculate further as to the same.
    8 hrs · Edited · Like · 3
  • Beckie Grunewald Now, there's two parts to this blog. One is Lillians story and then Jane shared hers. Jane's story is the one linked here and the one that is known to be true. I won't speculate publicly about the rest of the blog.
    8 hrs · Edited · Like · 2
  • Joe Jewell Right. If we can, let's try to keep this focused on what "Jane" has posted. We are on solid ground there as far as I'm concerned, with Pastor Paul Lidtke's confirmation above [edit: and below!]
    8 hrs · Edited · Like · 3
  • Paul Lidtke Carolyn M. Schallert, I just spoke on the phone with Jane. She explains to me that dates in and of themselves will really not disprove your skepticism. However, she is more than willing to tell you that the incidents mentioned on the blog occurred between May 2010 and January 2011. Please, Carolyn, this is real. It did happen. No one is trying to provide false information.
    8 hrs · Like · 5
  • Bryan Prell I'm not sure I have an answer as to how, but I would like to encourage caution and restraint in public postings and discussion for a number of reasons: 
    1) There are souls in at least two congregations who need to be thought of; I am all for truth and
    ...See More
    7 hrs · Like · 2
  • Gregory L. Jackson Personal attacks, Beckie, do not absolve Ski of drunken abuse, not does it absolve the synod officials of protecting him.
    6 hrs · Like · 1
  • Carolyn M. Schallert I would like to know why an opinion I stated is wrong. If I recall this is a site for open discussion?
    6 hrs · Like
  • Carolyn M. Schallert And also who are Ski and Englebrecht and how do they fit in with this blog.
    6 hrs · Like
  • Joe Jewell Carolyn M. Schallert did you read what I asked you to look at before? https://vdma.wordpress.com/.../two-wels-pastors-and-four.../ Also, your "opinion" that the facts described are made up is what is wrong. It's been confirmed ma...See More
    Recently, two WELS Pastors, Tim Glende and James...
    VDMA.WORDPRESS.COM
    6 hrs · Edited · Like
  • Bryan Prell Unless I am in the room, unless I am privy to all the details of both the precipitating incident as well events subsequent, I am making assumptions. Now assumptions might turn out to be correct, they might be half right, they might be completely right...See More
    6 hrs · Like · 1
  • Joe Jewell That's been the party line for quite some time, Bryan Prell. Looks like we're slowly getting more complete information, though--from the delicate stalk of wheat herself.
    6 hrs · Like
  • Gregory L. Jackson Now let's hear it once again for picking figs from thorns, grapes from thistles.
    6 hrs · Like
  • Bryan Prell As to the issues surrounding "Jane" herself, see again what I wrote above. That soul who is hurting needs great care, love, and support. 

    My point though, Joe Jewell, is that as we attempt to apply Law and Gospel clearly, as we work hard to hold up 
    ...See More
    6 hrs · Like · 2
  • Joe Jewell Noted.

    However, we're happy to have the victim share her story here.
    5 hrs · Edited · Like
  • Gregory L. Jackson Love doth not cover up a series of crimes, Bryan.
    4 hrs · Like
  • Edith Schallert I don't doubt the truth of Jane's testimony. What I do NOT like is the way that the 'anonymity' blackens the reputation of ALL WELS pastors when it is presented like this.
    4 hrs · Like
  • Gregory L. Jackson It was Ski - so this is not anonymous, and Team Glende took HER to court, along with her husband - for harassment. They blackened their own reputations.
    3 hrs · Like · 1
  • Jeffery Clark The victim has already been put through a lot of harassment and intimidation from her own congregation and synod. I can hardly blame "Jane" for wishing to keep her real name from a blog that is out there for the entire world/internet to see. If it prev...See More
    3 hrs · Like · 1
  • Beckie Grunewald Well it's not anonymous anymore that's for sure.
    3 hrs · Like · 1
  • Jeffery Clark True, however the main blog, which is separate from this group, doesn't have, nor does it need, those identifying remarks until the victim herself decides to share them.
    3 hrs · Like · 1
  • Jeffery Clark Police and DAs go a long way to protect victims from their attacker, we should allow a woman who is bringing her story to the public a little leeway, since she is doing it for the benefit of helping to correct a wrong and to ensure that it can never happen again. Next time it could be you or me.
    3 hrs · Unlike · 3
  • Beckie Grunewald Yeah I'm hoping that the conversation here would stick to Jane's story.
    3 hrs · Like
  • Steve Spencer Very frankly, the main problem with "Jane's" situation, and the main reason it was handled in the way it was - ok, now, I'm going to be very frank, and not beat around the bush here, so be prepared - is because it was not worse than it was. I've talked to literally dozens of pastors about this matter, and aside from a few leaders who were "disgusted," and said that if they had their way the pastor in question would NEVER serve in the pastoral ministry again, the vast majority of the rest had a response more like, "So what?! What's the big deal?! A nasty picture, some crude remarks, maybe a bad temper - no reason to toss the man out of the ministry!" If "Jane" had actually been propositioned or "flashed," or grabbed, or worse, it would probably have been dealt with much differently.I would venture to say that this "no big deal" attitude was the initial response of the pastor in question and his immediate superiors. We need to remember the culture in which 90% of our pastors are literally "raised," i.e in prep schools and colleges. Many of them leave home at maybe 13 or so, and spend the next 12 years with guys like them in very much a "frat" type atmosphere. What else can we expect?!? Please understand, I'm not excusing this behavior, only explaining it. But none of us should be surprised when things like this happen and fellow pastors, including DPs and CPs are not shocked and appalled.
  • Jeffery Clark Pastor Spencer is absolutely correct that the reason this was handled this way is the atmosphere in the worker training system. "Boorish behavior" (which the rest of the world would call sexual harassment) and other things, drinking comes immediately to mind are not only tolerated @ MLC and beyond but encouraged. When I was at MLC, my roommate and I drove to McDonalds, the student body president rode along with us. It was obvious he was intoxicated - so intoxicated in fact that he vomited (barely missing the inside of my car) and couldn't make it up the stairs to Summit Hall to get back to his dorm room unassisted after we returned. I reported the incident, saying it was a poor example for a leader among the students to be setting, and was given the response "Well, it was the weekend."

    • Jeffery Clark I won't even start on a certain video that came out of MLC..... even the pro-homosexual Illinois Institute of Technology wouldn't have allowed that to be shown.
      15 mins · Edited · Like
    • Beckie Grunewald So now we've turned it into the WELS education sucks thread. Great! Never mind the fact that there's (sic) MANY pastors out there who DONT engage in "boorish behavior" and plenty of males who came out of DMLC who aren't sexual predators. Nah, let's blame the schools instead of understanding that we are ALL sinners in need of a savior.

      when this thread actually isn't bagging the synod as a whole let me know. I hate it when people use someone else's tragic situation to help grind their own personal axe.

      • Dan Babinec I read this discussion and didn't feel the need to comment until I saw the part about the good ole boy network and this situation being an indictment of our worker training system. I'm not going to defend anyone in the case being discussed, because as...See More
        5 hrs · Like · 3
      • Gregory L. Jackson "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers." Too many WELS church workers are convicted criminals who went to prison for good reason, including murder, child pornography, child molestation, and embezzlement.
        1 hr · Like
      • Joe Jewell I'm proud of the schools I went to, too, Dan Babinec and don't begrudge you that. But I'm not sure that frankly emotional paean, multiplied times the entire WELS clerical class/families, doesn't point towards a big part of the issue.

        It's very hard fo
        ...See More
        8 mins · Edited · Unlike · 1
      • Beckie Grunewald Poor Jane. Probably didn't figure that her story wound be overshadowed by personal grudges. 

        The "culture" would mean something here if all of poor pastors were turning out the same. They're not. You can't in one breath say there's many fine teachers/pastors and then in the next say there's too many criminals.
        32 mins · Edited · Like · 1
      • Gregory L. Jackson Why not, Beckie? You have an acceptable number of child rapists, murderers, and pornographers in mind?
      • Paul Hein I'm gonna go with Dan on this one. We can armchair quarterback all we want - the fact remains - we weren't there. In all things there is he said/ she said and unless it's our job to investigate and prosecute these things we should do our best to not ...See More
        14 mins · Like · 1
      • Beckie Grunewald We are all sinners Greg. I realize that's hard for you to remember on your throne. Jesus didn't just die for perfect people like you.
      • Gregory L. Jackson Don't go ad hominem on us again, Becky. I didn't put your church workers in prison. "We are all sinners" does not excuse raping children or seducing the wives of church members. Did Al Just plead "We are all sinners" at his trial. No, he said his wife rolled over on a steak knife in bed about 20 times. Yes, Beckie, it was her fault. That sounds just like some of you on this thread.
      • Bryan Lidtke How about we get back to the original post! Start a new thread on WELS schools if desired, but we've obviously gone off topic after Pastor Lillo's comment from last night. 

        One last thought on our schools, though. It's not about finding a "pure and holy" organization on earth. It's about doing our jobs when we inevitably screw up, and that just hasn't happened here.
        9 mins · Like · 2
      • Joe Jewell Well said, Bryan.
        6 mins · Like
      • Paul Hein Blogs and forums and email chains shouldn't be where you decide criminal wrongdoing - that's why we have police, and the court system. All of this discussion seems like trying to tell the difference between an apple and and orange from 30,000 feet.
***

This WELS professor went on to become an advocate for homosexuals.
UOJ connections? Of course.


GJ - Someone commended me for preserving WELS commentary, since so much of it disappears as commanded. 

WELS behavior goes far beyond the labels of loutish and boorish, and its culture of alcoholism certainly plays a large part in their routine, casual criminal behavior.

They have taught one another that everyone is already forgiven, so the only sin is questioning Holy Mother WELS.

A culture where males pile up nude in the dorms, sexually assault other males--even during choir practice--shows that the system is degenerate, abusive, and evil. Supposedly the Roman Catholic priests (like their hero R. Weakland), are abusive homosexuals because they cannot marry.

The recent tales of degenerate behavior in WELS schools remind me of the Roman Catholic book Goodbye Good Men, which showed how the homosexual culture took over the American seminaries, winked at and supported by homosexual bishops (Weakland) and cardinals. 

But WELS teachers and pastors usually marry but still carry out their assaults while married. Adultery is not a sin - but a sport  in WELS - and child abuse is covered up faster than synod headquarters embezzlement.

People tell me, "Priests should marry," and I agree. But that does not solve the problem when the leaders are apostates who care more about their holy reputations than the destruction of souls.

When I reviewed a Roman Catholic book about their homosexual leaders, including the Pope Paul VI, I pointed out how that fit WELS perfectly. Herman Otten had a fit once WELS tightened the thumbscrews, so he denounced what he had just printed.

That was just in time for the homosexual scandal to erupt at the WELS headquarters building, where the FBI confiscated computers and flash drives. Joel Hochmuth revealed to them that his man-boy digital rape files were at the Love Shack. Hundreds of them. And nobody knew, nobody knew. What a shock. What a shock. He was absolved, forgiven, blessed, and assured that "this is not the Joel Hochmuth we know." Riiiiiight. He was caught before and "counseled" but nobody knew.

How low does a Synod President have to sink to absolve and defend flotsam like Hochmuth? But this is standard operating procedure for a "leader" who cannot tolerate justification by faith, so he cheers and encourages the Left Foot of Fellowship (selectively). 

And here is a final bit of irony. The author of The Rite of Sodomy was happy to have me review volume I, but after Otten (her pal) denounced me for telling the truth about WELS, she did not even reply to my emails. I wiped my bitter tears away with my scapular.

I wonder if she got Otten to sell the toxic anti-Luther book, The Facts (sic) about Luther, for Reformation.