Lito Cruz I am puzzled with the point Rolf is making against Webber because in UOJ every one is already forgiven even without faith or prior to faith, so if you have been forgiven without faith on anything, then you are still forgiven even if you believe in false doctrine of women's ordination. Since you are saved without faith, you're saved with or without it in the future. Rolf and Webber remind me of two atheists I saw who were in conflict with one another.
Keith Shedron A fine point has been made on LQ. Rolf claims that Jack Kilcrease is a "good theologian", yet Kilcrease teaches at ILT. And Webber is attacked, by Rolf, for taking a degree from ILT. Hhmmm... But this takes the focus off the central error that they all hold, which is an anti-sacramental, faithless justification, apart from any imputation of the righteousness of Christ.
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| McCain and Cascione reproduced the Preus essay, smacking their lips with glee. Edward Preuss left the Lutheran Church and became extremely influential as a Roman Catholic editor. |
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GJ - One atheist forum on the Net was shut down completely because the participants were so nasty with each other.
Dr. Lito Cruz and Keith Shedron have summarized the current debate on LutherQuest quite well.
I am constantly infuriated with the LCMS, WELS, and ELS leaders working with ELCA, conveting ELCA, emulating ELCA, and yet pretending to be superior to ELCA.
They all drink from the same Stygian stream of universal forgiveness and salvation without Christ, because Christ and His grace only come to us through the Word and Sacraments.
WELS, the ELS, and Missouri are no different from ELCA in:
- Claiming they are "Confessional Lutherans."
- Knowing nothing about the Book of Concord.
- Despising what the Confessions teach.
- Opposing justification by faith while promoting universal forgiveness and salvation without faith - as the Gospel.
- Inviting false teachers to their schools while excommunicating faithful pastors.
ELCA is especially repugnant to all believers because ELCA:
- Openly mocks the truth of the Scriptures and considers the Bible to be mythical.
- Supports abortion and funds abortion (for any reason) in its health plan.
- Ordains and marries homosexuals - but then, so do Missouri, WELS, and the ELS.
- Ordains women - but so do Missouri, WELS, and the ELS. Women consecrate the elements, baptize, you name it. WELS' Brug - that is fine, but WELS is not ready for an open declaration yet.
- Sits on the lap of the Antichrist, the Pope, and begs that terms of reconciliation be kind and gentle.
If there is ever a gold medal in denominational Olympics awarded for hypocrisy, WELS and Missouri and the ELS will vie for the honor.
Rolf Preus would wear the gold medal proudly. He imagines that Kilcrease, raised in WELS but trained in ELCA's college and seminary, is a fine theologian. Moreover, Kilcrease is not content to teach part-time at ILT's union seminary. Kilcrease also teaches the papists at a Roman Catholic college - Our Lady of Sorrows, something like that.
