Saturday, October 14, 2017

A Modest Proposal for the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation

 Graphic by Norma Boeckler


The Harvey Weinstein Synods of Lutherdom seem determined to embarrasa themselves as often as possible.

Which is worse? -

  • Concordia Publishing House selling Reformation bar equipment and doggie t-shirts, or 
  • Matt the Fatt having the convention vote to kick out anyone who publishes about doctrine without having an official title? 

I suppose "Pastor" is not an official role. That is simply too cute a way to celebrate Martin Luther speaking out for the entire Christian Church, sparking the Protestant Revolt  - as the Romanists fashion it. LCMS pastors leave the Vatican on the Mississippi for the real Vatican on the Tiber.

In the Wisconsin Synod corner, a sect known for despising the Book of Concord and Lenski, they publish their drivel about the Reformation by apologizing for Luther - at least "he pointed to Christ." Yet they point away from Christ, publishing JW Montgomery, another UOJ fanatic - who teaches forgiveness without faith and all that rubbish.

The Little Sect on the Prairie, a wholly owned subsidiary of WELS, plays a neat game called "We thank God we are better than Wisconsin." Meanwhile, they ape Wisconsin dogma in every way, but speak out against tuxedos. To be polite, they will not identify the WELS pastor by name who wore a tux for a service, but that pretty much clinches who it is. So delicate is their sense of ethical probity.

The so-called Church of the Lutheran Confession lives off its anger about WELS/ELS - and is dying from it at the same time. Nevertheless, they also swoon about Forgiveness without Faith and the Church Growth Movement, as if arsenic is not toxic enough - they also need to add lead to their diet.

This entire class of clowns and criminals will not allow a discussion about Justification by Faith in public, whether on Facebook or at a Free Conference. As most know, a Free Conference means anyone can express a position. Although the Emmaus meetings are clearly designed to serve as dating before the marriage, the LCMS-WELS-ELS pretends they are informal and non-binding. Spoiler alert - all three sects have already declared in public that they rejoice in their common teaching of Objective Justification - Forgiveness without Faith, Grace without the Means of Grace, Universal Salvation.

St. Paul summed up the synodical problem in two verses. Graphic by Norma Boeckler


A Modest Proposal
Various elections, conferences, blogs, and secret groups have failed to move beyond trivia for the last 50 years. Shallow, double-dealing politicians have not accomplished anything, so attempting to get someone elected is a total waste of time. Given the attention the leaders pay to the Scriptures - beyond pious slogans and mandatory tithing - electing anyone is counter-productive.

This program can be carried out stealthily, which is ideal for the clergy of today, who do not want to make waves or take a public position about anything beyond the level of adiaphora. Examples from the above sects - the Christian flag? - burn them all. Individual communion cups - anathema sit! Women teaching men? - that is a gre-e-e-e-ey area of Scripture.

Historical background. As the lost Pieper - Egbert - wrote, CFW Walther was not a Scriptural teacher. He used dogmatic theses. He was very weak in the Biblical languages, so he postured about teaching doctrine in Latin and became the first Pope on the Mississippi. The solution is not a new pope, but a vast cloud of Biblical expositors.

  Graphic by Norma Boeckler


The Secret Plan
Every pastor has a unique opportunity to teach the truth once a week - or more - where everyone listens for 20 minutes plus, without interruption. Babies may squall and some people may become restless, but that remains a protected, special opportunity for the efficacious Word of God.

Here is the sermon -
The pastor will deal with the Gospel or Epistle text each week, verse by verse, explaining that lesson. The historic pericopes are best and Luther has great guides for this - the Lenker edition of his sermons. But other Biblical series are good too. One should avoid the anti-Scriptural paraphrases like the NIV and ESV in favor of the KJV, KJV21, and Third Millennium Bible.

Lenski has great insights too, but the sermon should be based on the pastor's own study and reflection during the week.

 Gardeners and farmers get this parable -
synod leaders and seminary professors do not.
 Graphic by Norma Boeckler


The Reformation did not happen because Luther taught Luther, nor did it erupt and take over Europe because he taught the organization (as the sects do today). He firmly believed that Romans 10 was correct - forgiveness and salvation come from faith, and faith from the preached Word of God.

The Gospel of John is the capstone of the Four Gospels, clearly  emphasizing the teaching of Christ as the righteousness of faith, which is reflected in all the works of the Lutheran Reformation.

Teaching through various books of the Bible, phrase by phrase, is another aspect of this proposal. Various cheerleaders have begged for the right election results, as if that will yield some result other than another politician elected as Synod President of District President.

  Graphic by Norma Boeckler


Instead, pastors should teach faithfully the Word of God and accept the results - both good and bad - the Gospel fruits and the cross. Where that leads is God's business, not ours.

Isaiah 55 teaches with absolute clarity that God's will is accomplished only through God's Word. That Word always returns to Him with great effect.

  • The Word is never void. This double-negative should be considered gravely, at all times. The phrase condemns virtually  everything being done in Lutherdom today.
  • The Word always accomplishes His purpose. The results, which man may consider good or bad, are divinely blessed.
  • The Word prospers His will, so the effect is so great that no one can deny its origin in the Triune God.
This Biblical doctrine also means that gimmicks, plans, and programs have no effect apart from the Word. When that pudding-head Kent Hunter bound graph-paper into his Church Growth book, it seemed laughable. Now the three sects spend enormous time and energy graphing their horrible numbers and studying them, as if they were the entrails of goats from the rites of ancient, pagan Greeks. 

That is all we need in Lutherdom - to devote the sermon time to real Scriptural sermons. Here are the sermon notes - the verses themselves. They are his outline. If the pastor cannot give a sermon prompted by each verse, he should study more. 

What people get today is rambling about current events, personal opinions, synodical baloney, and other filler. Those are the "good" sermons. The rest of them are copied and pasted from the Net or from the group's secret server farm. Yes - WELS does that. They have one guy write the sermon, the rest of them deliver it.

 The Gadarene Swine of Lutherdom are
trained at Fuller, Willow Creek, and Trinity Divinity.
They have made a big splash.


Enhancements
Written Out - 
The written sermon should appear each week, to help those who want to know it in depth and to reach others who may only read it, for various reasons. One layman printed my sermons every week for his uncle, who was glad to read them. If that only happens with one person in a congregation, that is good and God-pleasing.

Broadcast
Any congregation can broadcast the service for very little, using live streaming. We use Ustream for $100 a month. One ELDONA pastor was worried that would cost real money and necessitate better equipment! But actually, the service can reach the world and people support it gladly. We really needed a better desktop and that was donated, ending our glitches from a slower CPU and relatively low RAM.

The Parable of the Sower and the Seed should influence congregations to spend some money on modern broadcasting. Sowing was the original broadcasting. At least, think of the shut-ins. Our next-door neighbor could barely walk. She became a Lutheran by watching our services on her computer.

Blogging and the Word
Blogs are a free and easy way to publish the Word of God. They have an astonishing reach around the world. We get 1500 views or more about goofs like Ricky Johnson, but 107,000 views - reading a single quotation from Luther

 The miraculous catch of fish was a visual representation
of what the disciples would do in the future,
trusting in the Word of God.
 Graphic by Norma Boeckler


Social Media and the Word
Combinations of social media leverage the reach of any given effort. A lawyer suggested that I teach Greek, and I use Ustream for that, plus posting on Facebook and this blog. We get hundreds of views for the Greek text of John.

By using a combination of social media, the results on searches are better and more people are reached.

 Duerer's depiction of the Holy Trinity

Friday, October 13, 2017

From Alec Satin - The Difficulty of Faith - Comfort for Christians



The Difficulty of Faith - Comfort for Christians:



"149 – The Difficulty of Faith



Who, said one of a company, would really refuse to trust the blessed God?

None of us, certainly, said Gotthold, so long as he has also faith in his own hand or purse; otherwise, to trust in God is a difficult, nay, an impossible task, for an earthly-minded, sinful, and timid heart. Such a heart cannot trust God without God’s help, nor depend upon His grace without His grace’s aid.

Faith has many enemies and gainsayers; and therefore it is a fight, and only keeps its ground by fighting. It has to comprehend the great God and His whole heaven in a little heart; and that is no easy task. A mother takes and carries about her child in her arms; soothes, fondles, kisses it; gives it meat and drink, and is very patient with it. But how long is it ere the child, on its part, learns to know the mother, returns her embraces and smiles, and shows her love and respect?

For myself, I can say with thankfulness, that now, through many trials, conflicts, struggles, temptations, sighs, and prayers, I have come so far, that I am beginning to believe that God is my gracious Father, and that I have an interest in the crucified Jesus, and in His merits, blood, and death. This is a lesson which I learn from day to day. Like a tender infant at the mother’s breast, I lie at the Savior’s wounds, and imbibe from them His blood and spirit, that I may grow in strength. Lord, I believe: help Thou my unbelief!"



'via Blog this'

Growing All Winter

The Mother of All Crepe Myrtles bloomed and set seed fast,
so I pruned it for a second bloom. The Buckwheat in bloom around the CM grew like Jack and the Beanstalk and
re-seeded itself when cut.
Both plants added to the organic content of the soil.

Winter has not yet arrived here. Nor has autumn. We have a few leaves falling but highs at 80 and lows above freezing.

Someone was really startled that I plant in the fall. "Does that work?" That works quite well. Beginners think about plants - veterans think about roots.

Hardy - or fall bulbs - need a cold winter to do well in the spring. They do most of their initial growth after being planted in the fall - the earlier the better, but do not peek out of the soil until the right time for them.They are growing roots and reaching upwards during the winter. In the spring, their rise up according to the weather clock built into their systems. Some bloom especially early - like crocus. Others can be quite late - like tulips. But even within one of those categories, there are early and late bloomers.

I no longer support the hardy bulb industry because the winters here are too mild for really good results. Next year I have a bunch of tender or spring bulbs to grow, given to me by our neighbor. Glads are one type, and I think he gave me dozens of them. Tender bulbs have to be dug up again. Mrs. Ichabod loves Caladiums, so they have to be dug up and preserved or bought again.

All plants grow according to a weather clock, and it is fun to observe and take advantage of it. Could that be a co-inky-dink? The staggered bloom cycles mean that pollinators have a constant supply of food, which benefits the insects and birds alike. The explosive hatching of bugs in the spring matches the hatching of birds and their ravenous appetites for bugs and larvae.

I pruned the Mother of All Crepe Myrtles for a possible third bloom, but the Creator trumped my ace. The weather turned just enough to signal a stop to blooms and a finishing up of seeds. Here and there a twig is showing off the incandescent pink of the bush, but overall the plant is all seeds on top - a generous supply of seeds for the Cardinals.



Likewise, the rugosa rose n the Wild Garden, has bloomed and started to form its hips. All roses try  to grow hips - seed pods - and some are known for their big, attractive hips. Birds love to eat them. Because these hips are packed with Vitamin C, they are grown for Vitamin C tablets sold in stores. When we grow roses for their blooms, we stop the fruiting and seed formation, to encourage even more blooming. See John 15:1-10 for how Jesus applies this to grapes and the Means of Grace.

The hybrid tea roses will continue to bloom in this weather. At some point I will stop cutting the roses and let the bush become dormant for the winter, lest new shoots suffer frost damage.

If you want to learn the calendar of planting, just use one supplier and offer up your email address to them and "their partners." Soon you will get frantic, daily messages about something to buy. They are not selling seeds now, but plants that will get established before they take a partial rest in the winter.

Hostas are a great investment in the fall. I had some ordered in the spring, since my wife enjoys them so much. My interest increased when I saw how their flowers were attracting Hummingbirds. The tiny plants - in some cases, only the roots - arrived recently. I was warned by suppliers, "These are dormant. Do not expect much growth now." However, our weather remained warm and we had some heavy rains at just the right time. They decided it was spring and they sprang into action. Hostas with leaves grew quickly and roots sprouted leaves.

All winter, the Hosta roots will strengthen for the spring. That is why soil building matters so much. Plants can be in relatively poor soil all winter and grow stronger, or they can be nourished in rich, well aerated soil and burst into action in the spring.


 Hosta roots grow all winter, and they grow their own
Hummingbird feeders in the late summer.

 Hostas will bloom, even in deep shade,
and the Hummingbirds love to feed at their flowers.

Thursday, October 12, 2017

Greek Lesson - John 19:23ff


ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 191550 Stephanus New Testament (TR1550)


19 τοτε ουν ελαβεν ο πιλατος τον ιησουν και εμαστιγωσεν
και οι στρατιωται πλεξαντες στεφανον εξ ακανθων επεθηκαν αυτου τη κεφαλη, και ιματιον πορφυρουν περιεβαλον αυτον
και ελεγον χαιρε ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων και εδιδουν αυτω ραπισματα
ραπισματα - second example of slapping his face
εξηλθεν ουν παλιν εξω ο πιλατος και λεγει αυτοις ιδε αγω υμιν αυτον εξω ινα γνωτε οτι εν αυτω ουδεμιαν αιτιαν ευρισκω
εξηλθεν ουν ο ιησους εξω φορων τον ακανθινον στεφανον και το πορφυρουν ιματιον - και λεγει αυτοις ιδε ο ανθρωπος
οτε ουν ειδον αυτον οι αρχιερεις και οι υπηρεται εκραυγασαν λεγοντες σταυρωσον σταυρωσον λεγει αυτοις ο πιλατος λαβετε αυτον υμεις και σταυρωσατε εγω γαρ ουχ ευρισκω εν αυτω αιτιαν
απεκριθησαν αυτω οι ιουδαιοι ημεις νομον εχομεν και κατα τον νομον ημων οφειλει αποθανειν οτι εαυτον υιον θεου εποιησεν
υιον θεου - strikes me as a title without the articles. anarthrous, without articles, is unusual. The real charge, as Lenski says, is not Messiah - king, which threatens Rome, but Son of God, which threatens them.
οτε ουν ηκουσεν ο πιλατος τουτον τον λογον μαλλον εφοβηθη
Pilate is dealing with the Son of God.  
και εισηλθεν εις το πραιτωριον παλιν και λεγει τω ιησου ποθεν ει συ ο δε ιησους αποκρισιν ουκ εδωκεν αυτω
- from where, the then is very important, 
10 λεγει ουν αυτω ο πιλατος εμοι ου λαλεις? ουκ οιδας οτι εξουσιαν εχω σταυρωσαι σε και εξουσιαν εχω απολυσαι σε
Jesus taught with εξουσιαν - not like the Scribes and Pharisees.
11 απεκριθη ο ιησους ουκ ειχες εξουσιαν ουδεμιαν κατ εμου ει μη ην σοι δεδομενον ανωθεν δια τουτο ο παραδιδους με σοι μειζονα αμαρτιαν εχει
ανωθεν - from above, the misunderstood "again" from John 3
12 εκ τουτου εζητει ο πιλατος απολυσαι αυτον, οι δε ιουδαιοι εκραζον λεγοντες εαν τουτον απολυσης ουκ ει φιλος του καισαρος - πας ο βασιλεα αυτον ποιων αντιλεγει τω καισαρι
But they charged him as the Son of God, not King.
13 ο ουν πιλατος ακουσας τουτον τον λογον, ηγαγεν εξω τον ιησουν και εκαθισεν επι του βηματος εις τοπον λεγομενον λιθοστρωτον εβραιστι δε γαββαθα
14 ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα δε ωσει εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων
15 οι δε εκραυγασαν αρον αρον σταυρωσον αυτον λεγει αυτοις ο πιλατος τον βασιλεα υμων σταυρωσω? απεκριθησαν οι αρχιερεις ουκ εχομεν βασιλεα ει μη καισαρα
16 τοτε ουν παρεδωκεν αυτον αυτοις ινα σταυρωθη. παρελαβον δε τον ιησουν και απηγαγον
17 και βασταζων τον σταυρον αυτου εξηλθεν εις τον λεγομενον κρανιου τοπον ος λεγεται εβραιστι γολγοθα
18 οπου αυτον εσταυρωσαν και μετ αυτου αλλους δυο - εντευθεν και εντευθεν - μεσον δε τον ιησουν
19 εγραψεν δε και τιτλον ο πιλατος και εθηκεν επι του σταυρου ην δε γεγραμμενον ιησους ο ναζωραιος ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων
20 τουτον ουν τον τιτλον πολλοι ανεγνωσαν των ιουδαιων οτι εγγυς ην της πολεως ο τοπος οπου εσταυρωθη ο ιησους και ην γεγραμμενον εβραιστι ελληνιστι ρωμαιστι
21 ελεγον ουν τω πιλατω οι αρχιερεις των ιουδαιων μη γραφε ο βασιλευς των ιουδαιων αλλ οτι εκεινος ειπεν βασιλευς ειμι των ιουδαιων
22 απεκριθη ο πιλατος ο γεγραφα γεγραφα


 Part II for October 12
23 οι ουν στρατιωται, οτε εσταυρωσαν τον ιησουν, ελαβον τα ιματια αυτου και εποιησαν τεσσαρα μερη - εκαστω στρατιωτη μερος - και τον χιτωνα ην. δε ο χιτων αρραφος εκ των ανωθεν υφαντος δι ολου

χιτων - tunic, worn next to the skin

24 ειπον ουν προς αλληλους μη σχισωμεν αυτον αλλα λαχωμεν περι αυτου  - τινος εσται - ινα η γραφη πληρωθη η λεγουσα διεμερισαντο τα ιματια μου εαυτοις και επι τον ιματισμον μου εβαλον κληρον. οι μεν ουν στρατιωται ταυτα εποιησαν
25 ειστηκεισαν δε παρα τω σταυρω του ιησου η μητηρ αυτου και η αδελφη της μητρος αυτου μαρια η του κλωπα και μαρια η μαγδαληνη

Had been standing, pluperfect
26 ιησους ουν ιδων την μητερα και τον μαθητην παρεστωτα ον ηγαπα λεγει τη μητρι αυτου γυναι ιδου ο υιος σου

Jesus addressed his mother as woman here and at the Cana wedding. Both examples anticipate the divinization of Mary after the Council of Ephesus.

27 ειτα λεγει τω μαθητη ιδου η μητηρ σου και απ εκεινης της ωρας ελαβεν αυτην ο μαθητης εις τα ιδια
28 μετα τουτο ειδως ο ιησους οτι παντα ηδη τετελεσται ινα τελειωθη η γραφη λεγει διψω

Double use of fulfilled emphasises the Scriptures fulfilled.
29 σκευος ουν εκειτο οξους μεστον οι δε πλησαντες σπογγον οξους και υσσωπω περιθεντες προσηνεγκαν αυτου τω στοματι
30 οτε ουν ελαβεν το οξος ο ιησους ειπεν τετελεσται και κλινας την κεφαλην παρεδωκεν το πνευμα
31 οι ουν ιουδαιοι - ινα μη μεινη επι του σταυρου τα σωματα εν τω σαββατω - επει παρασκευη ην - ην γαρ μεγαλη η ημερα εκεινου του σαββατου ηρωτησαν τον πιλατον ινα κατεαγωσιν αυτων τα σκελη και αρθωσιν
32 ηλθον ουν οι στρατιωται και του μεν πρωτου κατεαξαν τα σκελη και του αλλου του συσταυρωθεντος αυτω
33 επι δε τον ιησουν ελθοντες ως ειδον αυτον ηδη τεθνηκοτα ου κατεαξαν αυτου τα σκελη
34 αλλ εις των στρατιωτων λογχη αυτου την πλευραν ενυξεν και ευθυς εξηλθεν αιμα και υδωρ
35 και ο εωρακως μεμαρτυρηκεν και αληθινη αυτου εστιν η μαρτυρια κακεινος οιδεν οτι αληθη λεγει ινα υμεις πιστευσητε
36 εγενετο γαρ ταυτα ινα η γραφη πληρωθη οστουν ου συντριβησεται αυτου
37 και παλιν ετερα γραφη λεγει οψονται εις ον εξεκεντησαν
38 μετα δε ταυτα ηρωτησεν τον πιλατον ο ιωσηφ ο απο αριμαθαιας ων μαθητης του ιησου κεκρυμμενος δε δια τον φοβον των ιουδαιων ινα αρη το σωμα του ιησου και επετρεψεν ο πιλατος. ηλθεν ουν και ηρεν το σωμα του ιησου
39 ηλθεν δε και νικοδημος ο ελθων προς τον ιησουν νυκτος το πρωτον φερων μιγμα σμυρνης και αλοης ωσει λιτρας εκατον
40 ελαβον ουν το σωμα του ιησου και εδησαν αυτο οθονιοις μετα των αρωματων καθως εθος εστιν τοις ιουδαιοις ενταφιαζειν
41 ην δε εν τω τοπω οπου εσταυρωθη κηπος και εν τω κηπω μνημειον καινον εν ω ουδεπω ουδεις ετεθη
42 εκει ουν δια την παρασκευην των ιουδαιων οτι εγγυς ην το μνημειον εθηκαν τον ιησουν

Lawyers Send Cease and Desist Order to Ichabod



This just arrived by special courier -

Our attorneys received a link to your slanderous blog post - The Harvey Weinstein Synods Worry about Tuxes. Our legal research department has examined your blog thoroughly. This is a formal demand that you cease and desist publishing that post, erase it, and remove all evidence of it - for the following reasons.

Mr. Weinstein is a distinguished entertainment executive. He has received many honors from his profession, from various charities, and from academia.
  1. He has never murdered any of his wives, so we think calling these Lutheran groups Harvey Weinstein Synods is especially repugnant, since your fellow rabbis have done this, with few legal consequences.
  2. If something so horrible had happened at Miramax or any other Weinstein company, we would have disclosed it at once, and not covered it up, as your Chief Rabbis have.
  3. We employ the finest CPA firms to audit our books, so we would never have so many cases of embezzlement, especially at our own headquarters. Can you say the same? No.
  4. We have never had the FBI raid our headquarters and seize computer equipment for the crime of dealing in gay child porn. And even if, heaven forbid, that happened, we would not excuse, pardon, and absolve the felon for the sake of good PR.

Therefore, we order you to stop comparing your out-of-control synods to our client.

You have 24 hours to comply or we will seek additional legal action.

Cordially,


Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe
Attorneys at Law
New York City
(satire)

 Mr. Weinstein is seeking treatment
at a secure and undisclosed location.

Wednesday, October 11, 2017

The Harvey Weinstein Synods Worry about Tuxes

 David Jay Webber allied himself with the Harvey Weinstein of Columbus -
for the money,
Kovo the Church Growth Guru,
and UOJ,
but worries publicly about tuxes.



David Jay Webber is feeling sad.
Someone posted this elsewhere on Facebook today. I'm hearing this kind of thing more and more often, and it both embarrasses me and breaks my heart - although this is the first time I have heard of a WELS pastor wearing a tuxedo instead of church vestments. Don't think that this kind of thing is not chasing good people away. It is.
"Went to a WELS church today after leaving ELCA. What I noticed ... no traditional worship service, only contemporary worship. Pastor wore a tux instead of traditional attire. Sermon was good but I honestly felt like it was a non-denom. over a Lutheran church. Even the ELCA had more of a traditional service than them.(sic)"




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Matthias Leyrer The WELS really needs to take an official, hardline stance on this nonsense

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October 8 at 8:06pm
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Eric Olp The modern megachurch "Purpose Driven Church" methodology is a plague and a cancer and needs to be excised from Lutheranism ASAP. One of the things i'll give the LCMS credit for is attacking this head-on and having factions call out their purpose-driven proponents.

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October 8 at 8:08pm
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Samuel Novak A tuxedo? What the heck?

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October 8 at 8:12pm
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Joann Maske Where was this?

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October 8 at 8:13pm
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Jason Sturgill I agree Pastor Webber. WELS concerns me in these areas.

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October 8 at 8:16pm
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Lloyd Essmann This very bothersome

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October 8 at 8:18pm
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Jason Sturgill Revivalism and enthusiasm have a home in many pockets within our synod.

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October 8 at 8:23pm
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Carol Hoffmann Speed I think this is not the norm. Wish the church was mentioned in the article. Maybe there was a reason why this church service was done this way. I hate anonymous accusations. Maybe there is some agenda here.

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October 8 at 8:24pm
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David Jay Webber This comment was published on a public forum, but not on this forum. So, I do not want to add detail that would zero in on the identity of the poster. But I can tell you that this post was made with great disappointment on his part. And in the original...See More

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October 8 at 8:30pm
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Christine Ullmann One thing I give the ELCA props for is their faithfulness to traditional worship. Every ELCA service I've been to has been strongly liturgical. Their faithfulness to the Bible and doctrine, on the other hand…

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October 8 at 8:34pm
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David Jay Webber "Maybe there was a reason why this church service was done this way."

The reason why churches do this is clear. They think that this is the way to reach prospects in their communities. They think that people who are not born and bred in the Lutheran C
...See More


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October 8 at 8:34pm
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Rachel Parsons Growing up WELS (ELS member now) I had a similar experience visiting a WELS church while traveling out of town this weekend. I used to enjoy being able to attend different synod churches and know what I was going to get. We were disappointed that we un...See More

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October 8 at 8:37pm
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Jon Jordan This has been an area of concern for me as well. One of the WELS locations in my area you wont find a pastor in a robe or a suit, just a button down shirt and dress pants or Khakis.

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October 8 at 8:38pm
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Christine Ullmann I think the WELS does need to think seriously about this. I grew up WELS, attended an LES when there was one available, graduated from MLC, taught in a WELS high school, served overseas with a WELS mission. I married a man who grew up LCMS. We started ...See More

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October 8 at 8:48pm
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David Jay Webber Lutheran pastors who look with envying eyes upon the large numbers in attendance at the heterodox churches of our land, and who think that their own attendance will increase if they imitate the worship practices of those churches, need to realize that ...See More

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October 8 at 8:55pm
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David Jay Webber It is my considered opinion that a full-bodied liturgical service, which preserves the intended flow and rhythm of the liturgy, and which is accompanied by purposeful ceremonial ornamentation, actually recommends itself to the church as a better instru...See More

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October 8 at 8:55pm
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Phil Boileau If you don’t like contemporary worship, don’t go to a church that uses a form of worship you don’t like. It amazes me that most people who prefer a more contemporary form of worship rarely condemn those who have a traditional preference. I wish the reverse was true. Show grace and put the best construction on everything.

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October 8 at 9:47pm
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Sara James Tuxedo? Perhaps immediately after the service he was standing up in a wedding, ballroom dancing, attending prom, a State dinner, or a military ball and didn't have time to change. In all seriousness though, I am wondering why a pastor would intentionally introduce a distraction into the Service. Formal wear is very situationally specific; it appears pretentious outside of those events. Were women wearing ball gowns?

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October 8 at 10:20pmEdited
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Donald Hochmuth A tux worn in a WELS church by presiding minister? Really? I have not seen that done since I was a Methodist. Sad! Sad! Sad!! Is our church becoming the church that I left and was kicked out of the house by my parents for? Is this coming to us through our Sem? I see more and more disrespect in our circles for the Mass. Again, I say "Sad!"

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October 8 at 11:47pmEdited
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Lois Johnson They all need to read Hammer of God by Bo Giertz regarding clergy attire.

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October 9 at 1:08am
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Sheila Ramirez My Wels church has the traditional services and liturgy. My Sunday night sevice at The Core is different. The message is totaly centered on Christ, but Pastor Mike doesnt wear robes. There is nothing wrong with this. This is a special mission church meant to bring many unchurched in the downtown of Appleton to Christ. Sometimes we get way too roped up in the traditions set by man vs the message of the Gospel and Law.

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October 9 at 3:46am
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Kirk Meyer Although the original report is troubling, even more troubling is the paucity of WELS pastors who are willing to publicly oppose emulation of the sects in their worship practices.

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October 9 at 6:58am
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Sara Mae Schneider Usually it's the reverse... except the tux. I've never heard of that anywhere.

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October 9 at 8:09am
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Laura R. Charron Never heard of that. Not something we need tho.

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October 9 at 10:10am
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Jeff Samelson After this was published last year, I had a retired WELS pastor contact me (I'm paraphrasing, from memory) and ask whether I was really trying to restart this whole contentious debate, because he thought the question had been "settled" years back in fa...See More

Jeffrey L. Samelson Organs or guitars? Actually, it’s not about the instruments. Maybe it was for Great Aunt…
WELS.NET

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October 9 at 10:28am
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Jeff Samelson A comment was made above about WELS pastors speaking up against the inroads of evangelical worship. What I think would be particularly helpful would be for laypeople to speak up when and where it counts. I suspect that most of the "contemporary" worshi...See More

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October 9 at 10:36am
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Luke I Tembreull It is always difficult when our expectations are dashed. For someone leaving an ELCA high church congregation, I can see how they would be very put off when they would expect even better from a church that claims to value doctrine and practice so highl...See More

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October 9 at 12:32pm
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Luke I Tembreull Some of this is on us pastors for not teaching the meaning of the liturgy, or certain parts of our Lutheran heritage. We can fall into a little bit of a trap if we say, "I just preach the gospel", as if teaching the confessions and the liturgy and our ...See More

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October 9 at 12:36pm
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David Jay Webber WELS people who are embarrassed or frightened by their smallness need to consider something very basic: Heterodox churches are growing, and have lots of people going there, largely because of their heterodoxy. People by nature like heterodoxy. They lik...See More

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October 9 at 1:08pmEdited
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Geoffrey A. Kieta These discussions always leave me very conflicted. Personally, I am absolutely committed to liturgical worship and I have no intention of hanging my robe or my stoles in the closet. Yet, this thread bothers me. Did I misunderstand, or is the assumpt...See More

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October 9 at 2:32pm
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Tom Plamann Wow! So much brotherly love here.... 😕

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October 9 at 6:25pm
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Martin Hahm Adiaphoron, where applicable, .....but guarding against tripping up weak, 
....., but, personally, I'd prefer having David play his harp, unless dancing for joy with the choir. Why don't we use boats 🚣🏻 for pulpits, or hillsides, as Jesus did? 
Shall we thank for PA systems, saving vocal cords?


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October 9 at 9:30pm
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Jeff Samelson Let's remember that identifying an issue as "adiaphora" does not indicate the end of discussion ("Oh, that's an adiaphoron! Everybody do whatever they think is best!") but rather the beginning of discussion ("Hmm, an adiaphoron. Let's carefully conside...See More

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October 9 at 10:51pm
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Tom Plamann So what was the Pastors response when you approached him with this concern?

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Yesterday at 10:55am
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Nancy Fleener Evans I call this thread GOSSIP and needs to stop.....

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Yesterday at 4:46pm
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Michael Coenen Fires! Hurricanes! Floods! Riots! Wars! All this going on, one disaster after another and there is a post complaining a pastor didn't wear a robe??? This is foolish! Straight from the devil himself! 

Let's stop worrying that a pastor didn't wear a 
robe. Instead lets get on our knees and humble ourselves and turn from our wicked ways and pray for each other and this country!

Instead of this nonsense, lets talk about gathering and grouping together to read The Word of God Everyday. Let's talk about growing as Christians and giving our money and time to build the Kingdom of God. Let's also go and tell Everyone about Christ today. 

Please delete this whole post, it makes us look like the world and not Christ like.


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Yesterday at 6:56pmEdited
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Bonnie Kay This is THE best discussion I have read on this subject. I have a much better understanding of why the historic liturgy is absolutely necessary in Lutheran churches. Great discussion!

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Yesterday at 7:00pm
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David Jay Webber As I have said more than once, to me the tuxedo thing, while an oddity, is not the main point of the post or of the ensuing discussion. I am not interested in pursuing whether or not the pastor wore a tuxedo, and if so, why. In a hierarchy of concerns,...See More

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Yesterday at 7:18pm
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Joe Jewell Bonnie Kay I agree. I've had this experience over and over again on WELS Discussions... some really trenchant, insightful analysis on an important topic. It's a real blessing for me to be able to read along.

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Yesterday at 7:22pm
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David Jay Webber It is not foolish or nonsensical to be concerned about WELS (or ELS) churches looking and feeling, to informed visitors, like heterodox non-denominational churches - especially when these WELS (or ELS) churches are deliberately trying to look and feel that way because they think it will make themselves more appealing to unchurched people.

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Yesterday at 7:23pm
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Lee Liermann But this is what needs to be done. Pastors need to teach the history and meaning of the liturgy, laymen (which includes women by the way) need to raise their concerns with their Pastors, sites like this need to have the discussion. If you are uncomfo...See More

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Yesterday at 8:55pm
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Sheila Ramirez Michael told me that this site should be set to a closed site so your discussions are not viewed by other facebook users. This way you can discuss these topics but dont have onlookers see this and turn away from God, thinking bad things like they argue...See More

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13 hrs
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Joe Jewell Sheila Ramirez we vet people as carefully as possible before admitting them to try to discern some WELS/ELS/CELC or other Confessional Lutheran affiliation or genuine interest. This includes looking at the applicant's page, what is set to public visibi...See More

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12 hrsEdited
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David Moseley Joe I think what Sheila is saying (correct me if I'm wrong Sheila) is that non members of this group can see the page and that maybe it's not the best thing. I would agree with that. However, just to be clear I'm totally fine with the OP on this page. 

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12 hrs
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David Moseley Joe I think what Sheila is saying (correct me if I'm wrong Sheila) is that non members of this group can see the page and that maybe it's not the best thing. I would agree with that. However, just to be clear I'm totally fine with the OP on this page. 

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12 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez Wow! You really sadden the Lord! To think Im not Lutheran when all I mostly post is Scriptures and things to lead people to Jesus? I am a life time member at Bethel Menasha a Wels church. This is beyond ridiculous! I love my Lord above all things.

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10 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez I just happen to have friends online who are many different Christians. I love to share my Czech friends posts but must share them from his rapture site right now.

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10 hrs
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David Moseley Sorry it posted twice. Facebook was acting up.

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10 hrs
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Joe Jewell Sheila Ramirez, all I can see is what you've posted on your page. As I said, the moderators let you in even though it was mostly non-Lutheran content.

David Moseley OK, sure, but quite honestly, if a member of a Baptist or a non-denominational church 
...See More


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10 hrsEdited
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Sheila Ramirez This is why my Wels pastor said to pay no mind to these groups.

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10 hrs
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Joe Jewell Sheila Ramirez but he does say to follow TD Jakes and Rapture groups?

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10 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez I said that I post my Czech friends posts for the Lord but can only get them from the rapture site he posts to right now. And I have no idea who TD Jakes is. Maybe it was on a picture with Christian message or Scripture. I have posted things on Luther.

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10 hrs
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Sara James Sheila Ramirez Please take my suggestion in the kindest possible way. There are many different ways to strengthen our faith. Please join sites (I would suggest Wels Lutherans, the official Wels page and the Els page) that strengthen you and build you u...See More

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9 hrsEdited
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Sheila Ramirez Im on those too. I joined at first because I thought it was a forum setup by Wels to discuss synod happenings or the like.

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9 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez I have been on it for long time. Just didnt get things in my newsfeed often. No worries.

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9 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez And yes Im not for TD Jakes either. Guess his name shows up on some Scripture posts. I share daily Scripture I copy and paste from Bible Gateway.

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9 hrs
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Jason Sturgill Sheila, I don't think it is appropriate for you, or anyone for that matter, to tell someone that they "sadden the Lord" simply because you disagree with them. You certainly don't speak for God and taking such a stance is rather bold and above your pay ...See More

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5 hrsEdited
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Sheila Ramirez Forgive me please. Im just sad anyone looks at my posts to see my worthiness.

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3 hrs
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Jason Sturgill No problem. But I wouldn't take it like that. It's not about worthiness. We want people to grow in faith and knowledge here. I have been corrected before. That's how we grow. Some days I'm the teacher and on many days I'm the student. That is what make...See More

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45 minsEdited
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Joe Jewell Jason Sturgill this was well-said. Sheila Ramirez, thank you for reading what he had to say; I think he communicated better than I could have.

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2 hrs
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Sheila Ramirez God bless you all in this. I enjoy posting His word daily. I work with many agnostics etc. And am looking for avenues to share my songs for God. Here is one.

"Rest in Me"
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2 hrs
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Patrick Mulrain Perhaps i missed it but with all the WELS pastors on this page it seems odd not one has verified the original post. Given the size and interconnection of the synod I'd of thought someone would have said yes it's accurate in the details or no there is more to the story.

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3 hrsEdited
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Paul Webber How could a pastor know, since they're 'll pretty busy on sundays

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3 hrs
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Paul Webber And the op didn't want to out/personally attack an individual. It was meant to be a discussion based on overarching lutheran principles

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3 hrs
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Patrick Mulrain Circuit meetings? 
Family?
Friends?
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3 hrsEdited
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Paul Webber I think if you really want to know, you can send David Jay Webber a private message

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1 hr



GJ - My advice - Keep throwing sand in everyone's eyes, so they do not see your clay feet.