unlike the Episcopalians, who actually ordained women first.
WELS/ELS declared a moratorium, not having the spine to deal with the issue.
These beach priestesses remind me of the ill-named Intrepids.
The Intrepids have revealed the true nature of WELS - a mind-control cult.
Like a Brownie troop that wandered onto the subway tracks because their leader was in the john, you decided to step on the Third Rail of the Syn Conference - UOJ. You experienced the immediate and lasting thrill of electrocution.
The Trepids also allowed comments from Brett Meyer and me. What were you thinking? The WELS franchise does not allow independent thinking from anyone.
One day Circuit Pastor Steve Spencer was urging on your blog - Fight! Fight! Fight!
The next day most of you were shouting - Run! Surrender! Throw down your weapons!
Learn from Church and Change, girls. I cannot say men, because you have acted like little girls wetting yourselves. One of the best and most discerning comments came from WELS Church Lady, who grasps the topic and explains herself well. Joe Krohn (earlier associated with the Church and Change list) also said more in a few words than the rest of you can obfuscate in thousands.
Church and Change has had the same agenda since 1977 or before. I realize they formed later than that, with your offering money skimmed from the plate, but they were the same leaders as now.
Church and Change has never backed down on anything. Have they ended any discussion as pusillanimously as you have? For them to imitate your sad spectacle, they would have had to conclude with "We now realize the Word alone is efficacious and that all our gimmicks are as useless as Deformed theology."
Church and Change does not even address matters beneath its royal standing in the cult. For example, when Paul Calvin Kelm was hosting the Leonard Sweet conference for WELS Church and Change, he would NOT back down or even answer critics from within Church and Change. The conference went on as usual. The debate went on for a long time, not for a mere 24 hours.
Likewise, Church and Change never abandons its own. They are the Navy SEALs of false doctrine. They arranged one call after another for Kelm, who is forever in trouble. When he was finally canned at The Guilt Factory, his buddies at Willowcreek's Little College invented a chaplain's position for the aging heretic.
"Fight, fight, fight"?
To quote Gibbon, "You fought without discipline and ran without shame."
I know you were threatened, from the SP on down. Boo hoo. Be sure to read the underlined passages in Deutschlander's Theology of the Cross. You trust Holy Mother Synod but do not trust God to care for you.
You formed to deal with the doctrinal problems of WELS/ELS? You are the problem.
8 comments:
Posting Pastor Spencer's full comment in which he proclaims to everyone to "Fight, Fight, Fight!" as I thought it was a bold statement and necessary. Clearly it's easier said than done but with the help of God it is possible. Hebrews 11 is full of faithful Christians, some of whom allowed themselves to be cut in half then to abandon the one true faith in Christ as the Intrepids did publicly yesterday - and no one had a physical blade pressed to their stomach.
Scott - and everyone and anyone else reading this blog,
The single best thing we can all do (after praying for the Lord's help, guidance, and blessing on our troubled synod, of course), is to speak up and speak out.
Listen carefully to your Pastor. Take notes on this sermons - good and/or bad. See what's being used in Bible classes. Watch what goes on in your church, neighboring WELS churches, your school, neighboring schools, area high schools, synod schools. Find out what's being taught - exactly, and what's not. Find out what's being done or not done (like the pro-Islamic Roman Catholic entertainer at MLC last week, for example).
Make a list of concerns - as many as necessary. Then, talk to your Pastors. Find out who your Circuit Pastor is and talk to him. Talk to your District President. Send words of support and encouragement to President Schroeder. Speak, speak, speak, speak!
Inform yourselves. Read Luther and the Confessions. Study the Scriptures. Pray and pray some more! There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to be silent anymore! There is simply no excuse.
This goes for all lay members, men and women, young and old. This goes for all teachers in any of our schools. This goes for all Pastors, and especially all Circuit, Conference, District, and Synod officials. Speak up! Call into question unclear or unorthodox words and practices.
And never be satisfied with an answer like, "You wouldn't understand." or "I'll look into that and get back to you." Contact them again, and again, and again, and again. Never rest until you get a satisfactory answer based on the Holy Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessional and nothing less! And never, ever, let anyone "pull rank" on you, or try to intimidate you into silence.
You want to know what to do - I'll tell you - FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT! Never surrender one iota of orthodox, historic, evangelical, confessional, Lutheran principle. Fight with words. Fight with letters. Fight with phone calls. Fight with emails. Fight in blogs and on facebook pages. Fight in person. Confront people face to face at Council meetings, at Voters' meeting, at Circuit meetings, at Pastor and Teacher conferences, at District and Synod Conventions. Never give in. Never stop. Never rest. Never quit - NEVER, EVER, until God calls you home to heaven! Period!
And THAT'S what you can do to help!
Pastor Spencer
September 26, 2010 4:20 PM
http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2010/09/walking-together-sunday-sermon.html#comments
All of this talk about the difference between Universal Objective Justification and Universal Atonement reminds me of a joke that Emo Philips originally told and which is illustrated in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0zIv2I37UU
Doctrinal indifference is the hallmark of Pietism. Thank you for proving that, Samuel.
Samuelthrace, I've pulled these quotes from past Ichabod discussions concerning the importance of being faithful to Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions in regard to doctrine.
"Doctrinal indifference is at once the root of unionism and its fruit. Whoever accepts, in theory as well as in practice, the absolute authority of the Scriptures and their unambiguousness with reference to all fundamental doctrines, must be opposed to every form of unionism."
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 20.
"Therefore nothing but a satanic, seductive, and sinister strategy is involved when we are called upon to yield a bit and to connive at an error for the sake of unity. In this way the devil is trying cunningly to lead us away from the Word. For if we adopt this course and get together in this matter, he has already gained ground; and if we were to yield him a fingerbreadth, he would soon have an ell."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1411f. Ephesians 6:10-17.
"Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures." 19 " In matters concerning faith we must be invincible, unbending, and very stubborn; indeed, if possible, harder than adamant. But in matters concerning love we should be softer and more pliant than any reed and leaf and should gladly accommodate ourselves to everything." 20 "Doctrine is our only light. It alone enlightens and directs us and shows us the way to heaven. If it is shaken in one quarter (in una parte), it will necessarily be shaken in its entirety (in totum). Where that happens, love cannot help us at all." 21 " But this tender mercy is to be exercised only toward Christians and among Christians, for toward those who reject and persecute the Gospel we must act differently; here I am not permitted to let my love be merciful so as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order. Then it is my duty to contend in earnest and not to yield a hairbreadth." What Luther Says, II, 637f.
"However, if anything is undertaken against the Word, faith, and the honor of God, we are in no wise to preserve silence, are to bear it far less patiently. Then we should offer stubborn resistance."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1308. Sermon, 1523.
Brett--
Those quotes only apply if you're talking about teachings that matter. The difference between UOJ and universal atonement is so slight that it is laughable that anyone would actually care about it. This argument is all about determining who the smartest theologian in the room is and has no real consequence for Christian faith and life.
You state, "The difference between UOJ and universal atonement is so slight that it is laughable that anyone would actually care about it." Please explain the slight differences.
The Intrepids have revealed the true nature of WELS - a mind-control cult.
Stated another way, the doctrine of many WELS leaders is all mixed up and set like concrete.
IL did not publish my comment on Romans 3:21-26.
IL owners are not clear in their heads. They attack the symptoms rather than the root cause, which is UOJ.
LPC
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