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| Paul McCain - All hat, no cattle. |
Brett Meyer
has left a new comment on your post "
Complete
Rough Draft of Chapter Four - Luther vers...":
The link to
McCain's rant on the ALPB forum is a good read. His persistance in undermining the
account combined with the lack of addressing the facts and sources presented in
the book is pathetic.
There's something to how he gushes with delight
over Pope worshipping Nuehaus, is overjoyed at gaining a seat at the Antichrists
table and fitfully attacks revelations concerning the American Pope. Begs the
question if there's jesuit types in the Lutheran Synods.
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boc1580@gmail.com
Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at May 16, 2010 16:57
Pastor Sauer, why do are you assuming that the information being relayed by those trying to salvage Stephan is accurate, factual and true? It doesn't do much for the credibility of the ALPB to be promoting this stuff.
I have examined the voluminous amount of evidence in the Concordia Historical Institute about the theological and moral failings of Stephan, and, to say the least, it is facile to suggest that he was the "victim" of the seal of the confessional being broken. The lie that the Saxons only knew of Stephan's infidelity because what was allegedly "confessed" has been spread by certain ALPB board members for some years.
He was a corrupt bishop, unfaithful to his wife, and left his followers, literally, struggling for their lives on a frontier he promised them would be a sort of Lutheran utopia.
[GJ - Walther and Company robbed Stephan of all his money after the Society failed to run its finances well. The approximately 4000 gold coins went a long way toward bailing them out. Walther also stole the 40 acres of land given to Stephan - by stealth, of course. After robbing Stephan, threatening him, and kidnapping him at gunpoint, the Saxons left him seriously ill in a hovel with $100 cash and a few tools "to make his living." They made out like bandits because they were.]
The best thing that ever happened was when he was sent packing across the river. Walther and other repented of their sin of abandoning their calls and congregations in Germany, and realized that they had been misled by Stephan.
I'd caution you against buying into the "Stephan flat earth society" types who are attempting to put forward a mythical Stephan.
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BOC1580@gmail.com
Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at May 18, 2010 13:00
Again, I would respectfully challenge your assumption that the "history" you are reading it, in fact, true, objective, complete and accurate. I would prefer to regard the accounts, reports, records and history that we have on the issues surrounding Stephan, written by eye-witnesses, to be much more reliable than the ex post facto explanations of those now attempting to portray Stephan as treated wrongly, unfairly and, as you say, with "duplicity."
Let's take but one small example. It calls for a great deal of credulity (that's a word, right?) to accept the assertion that Stephan personally owned a jewel encrusted chalice and it was "stolen" from him by Walther and company.
[GJ - Ludwig Fuerbringer wrote that Stephan was given one chalice - personally - and that it was still being used by Walther's old congregation, Trinity. Ownership and theft - proven.]
You continue to assert the "seal of the confessional" was broken. I challenge that assertion. The documentation I've read indicates that the women involved in the adulterous behavior by Stephan spoke of this behavior privately to others, and it was not simply a matter of a sacramental confession/absolution being divulged.
I know how important, even necessary it is, for the ALPB to posture itself as a source of "objective" history of The LCMS, but I think we all know better than that.
Simply put, I find this effort now to attack Walther and other LCMS fathers as being the perpetrators of evil against Stephan to be more than a little disingenuous, and predicated a lot of speculation, conjecture, rumor and reporting of half-truths.
Am I really to believe that a descendant of Stephan is capable of providing objective historical analysis with full, complete unbiased documentation for all his assertions?
Perhaps, to demonstrate good faith in its call for "repentance," the ALPB could own up to its complicity in the underhanded, deceptive tactics used by Tietjen and his inner circle in trying to foist on The LCMS the myths that what was going on in the classrooms at Concordia Seminary during the Seminex era was simply a matter of "fundamentalism" taking hold in the Synod. Perhaps the ALPB would be willing to repent of its covering up the truth of what happened then, in its complicity in advancing falsehoods, half-truths and simply lies about what was actually being taught? I would find that gesture to be a demonstration of the ALPB's willingness to do more than take potshots at The LCMS.
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BOC1580@gmail.com
Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at May 20, 2010 12:30
I have now had a chance to read through major portions of the book, from which, apparently LUTHERAN FORUM will be publishing excerpts. It is a book that was self-published by a retired psychologist, a descendant of Walther. It's only endorsement comes from a United Church of Christ minister, with a blurb on the back cover.
The web site listed in the article is run by another Walther descendant ,a radical feminist lesbian composer and amateur theologian of some sort of another. Why do I mention this? Every assertion must be weighed and evaluated on its own merits, but it is also important to recognize the worldview bring brought to anyone's particular presentation of an issue.
[GJ - Paul McCain is neither a pastor nor a theologian, but he fashions himself as both. He was in charge of the Concordia Historical Institute, but he has no regard for the facts. He does not mention that one Stephan descendant was a Lutheran Hour speaker, quite a honor for anyone.]
Based on my reading of this self-published book, and review of the web site forum, and other web sites associated with Dr. Stephan, see, for example: lifemissionassociates.com There we read that Dr. Stephan is: "a passionate advocate of inclusive texts, and texts written with a Lesbian- and gay-friendly perspective." We also learn that the artist:
"uses a wide range of themes, from celebration of the Vagina (Ave Pudendum) to a new choral Cantata written with the help of a grant from the Thanks Be to Grandmother Foundation, Mater in Memoriam, for SSAA and Chamber Ensemble, or for SSAA and Piano. This piece is noteworthy as it treats the mother-daughter relationship from a Lesbian perspective, while maintaining a universal appeal for non gay audiences."
In other words, I doubt we can expect to find any sympathy for the orthodox, confessing Lutheranism that Stephan and Walther both wanted to promote from sources like this. Which makes me wonder how objective their analysis and scholarship actually is?
I would simply say that the kind of "evidence" marshaled in the book is very much biased, tilted toward trying to prove what has already been assumed as fact, and makes use of what are frankly, quite dubious sources, a lot of hear-say evidence, that is all every bit as unreliable as any hagiography of Walther that ALPB rightly eschews.
[GJ - The evidence discounted by McCain is primary evidence, actual documents in the possession of his previous employer, the Concordia Historical Institute. Historians treasure primary documents, but McCain is not a historian.]
I'm surprised ALPB would actually provide a platform for this kind of truly second-rate "scholarship," contained in the book and the frankly quite bizarre musings from the web site, and the web site owner.
Honestly, as I look through the pages of a certain Missouri-based weekly newspaper, I am accustomed to seeing this kind of axe-grinding conspiracy-theorizing that one finds routinely in that publication. I am surprised to see ALPB indulging in what is little more than the same. I would have thought ALPB might have considered having the purported "scholarship" being offered to be peer reviewed carefully by reputable and knowledgeable experts in the history of the Saxon immigration.
[GJ - The Perry County LCMS shrine claims, as Herman Otten's grandson wrote, that Stephan was given three choices upon his adultery being discovered. He was given no choices, pronounced guilty by a kangaroo court set up by Walther, robbed and kidnapped - forced to leave the state. The LCMS founders committed many felonies, and Walther led them.]
Disappointing, is an understatement.
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BOC1580@gmail.com
Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at May 20, 2010 15:11
Pr. Sauer, at the risk of repeating myself: My opinion of the "sources" cited is that they are more along the lines of rumor, gossip, hear-say and other heavily biased accounts of the events, obviously aiming at painting the actions of Walther and company in the worst possible light, and Stephan as the persecuted victim. That is what I meant when I stated that the "evidence" presented in the book is "very much biased, tilted toward trying to prove what has already been assumed as fact, and making use of frankly, quite dubious sources, a lot of hear-say evidence" the sources and evidence strike me as unreliable as any hagiography of Walther that ALPB rightly eschews.
While you perceive my reporting of the background and positions of the persons writing a book and hosting a web site to be an "attack" I would simply restate that I believe that it is important to, consider the sources, of the information ALPB is apparently so interested in promoting and pushing.
It strikes me as more than a little disconcerting that the ALPB would be promoting the work of a person who composes this kind of choral piece: http://www.naomimusic.com/pages/order/yeltonRhodes.php
I believe it is worth evaluating a person's interests, passions and worldview as one evaluates their (sic) credentials to speak knowledgeably, objectively and fairly on the matter of Martin Stephan.
[GJ - Paul McCain, who lied about working secretly with Herman Otten, will teach the ALPB about being honest, fair, objective, and Evangelical.]
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BOC1580@gmail.com
Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at June 20, 2010 09:38
The problem, Pastor Peters, is that while the book may be a "good read" it is sloppy scholarship, putting forward a bunch of rumors and speculations, with a bundle of hearsay evidence, asserting things that simply are not true.
And Lutheran Forum's complicity in promoting shoddy scholarship and endorsing a book, and a web site, run by a person whose credibility is nill is an unfortunate choice on their part.
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Stephan History
Posted by Pastor Peters at June 21, 2010 21:33
BTW the person who called me up and told me it was a gotta read book was David Scaer!
