Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, PhD: Rossow Beats Him Like a Rented Mule

Lito Cruz has won the Beaten Like a Rented Mule Award.
B. Teigen was a previous winner.

Lito Cruz, PhD:
Here is what Rossow said about me apparently because I questioned Prof. Gard and I checked his claims for falisfiability.

If your posts do not show up here anymore it is because I have finally grown tired of your sophomoric approach to these discussions.


I have let these discussions on SJ and OJ go only because the likes of Gilcrease (sic), A. Preus and Pierce have been giving us all a show of patience, love and most of all Scriptural and Confessional integrity.


I have learned something important from you and your other OJ deniers. As Kilcrease pointed out on the other string, the use of the terminiology (sic) of OJ and SJ are not necessary for salvation but the content and substance of the teaching are Scriptural and Orthodox. I never invested much time in the controversey (sic) years ago. What I have learned from you is that there is a subtle and important distinction between terms like “atonement” and “justification” but this distinction does not undo the basic truth that the sin of the world is accounted for in Jesus’ death on the cross. I thank you for pointing out that subtle distinction but your silly interrogation of Dr. Gard has crossed even the very liberal boundary that I keep for this site.

Pastor Tim Rossow

***

GJ - What a sour puss! Apart from the bad spelling and name-calling, Rossow shows an absurd grasp of reality, one that parallels the bizarro world of LaughQuest.

I doubt whether anyone could name a person more polite than Lito Cruz. I have been amazed that anyone would bother dealing so long with an UOJ shop like Steadfast (sic), where they keep a junkyard dog who moonlights at LaughQuest, carrying out the same duties. The UOJ Stormtroopers never mind that. But question one of their own, someone who might explode the Bob Preus OJ mythology? Where are my smelling salts!

I doubt whether Gard is being a cry-baby. At Notre Dame everyone was allowed to debate anyone else in the class about any particular topic. In my classes we had papal infallibility priests asking the others why they did not leave the Church of Rome, one charismatic Roman Catholic professor, and so forth. Since Gard went to Notre Dame, I doubt whether he is whining.

McCain shows his hand wherever he goes. Although he said in writing that he enjoyed my Photoshops, I doubt the claim. More importantly, he bristles at anyone stepping on their favorite dogma, which really allows anyone to do or say anything.

Sadly, the LCMS cannot deal with its own sordid past as the foundation for their problems today, doctrinal problems that spread into WELS, via the St. Louis trained men, like VD. The Missouri bullies lose by winning. More than one pastor and layman has read the posts and said, "So that's the way it is."

Luther, Melanchthon, Chemnitz, Andreae, Chytraeus, Gerhard, Leyser, and Robert Preus are now...
Objective Justification deniers!

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, Ph...":

Correct Pr. Greg,

I doubt if Gard is complaining for he should be accustomed to this. He is a doctor, he should be at home with my stuff so I doubt if it Gard had something to do with this. To be questioned is just part of the day's work for a doctor.

Rossow stepping in shows he is afraid of something. He seems to be embarrassed by my question.


LPC


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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, Ph...":

"(UOJ) is Scriptural and Orthodox" - and yet the Lutheran Confessions are completely void of its teachings.

Luther must feel like a complete idiot right now, having forgot to make a full confession of the central article of Scripture.

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GJ - Brett, Luther would have, if he had known how mixed up we were going to be.

That is the Lutheran Deposit of Faith. It is handed down by an elite group, generation after generation, revealed to the masses only when necessary. That is why God sank one ship of the Saxon Society instead of Walther's, to reveal UOJ to the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of that teeming shore.

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Paul McCain cannot handle the truth:


Pr. Rossow thanks for stepping in and calling a halt to the commentary being offered here by Lito Cruz, I urge similar action be taken against any and all coming on here advocating for Greg Jackson’s errors. I believe that these errors are very much a public skandalon/offense to the Body of Christ and of particular danger to the laity who will only ultimately, potentially, end up being confused and left to doubt the orthodox doctrine their pastors and others have taught them.

I also do not believe it is fair for a seminarian to have to shoulder the burden of this public false teaching and responding to it.

I would therefore respectfully urge BJS to consider banning those who are here, very intentionally, to try to spread the false doctrine of Jackson, errors that are attacks on the very heart of the Gospel.

And as for Cruz’ gracious response to you, this is by no means the case. Somebody sent me the link to Jackson’s blog site where Jackson and Cruz excoriated you and the BJS site.

Cruz said this about you: “Rossow stepping in shows he is afraid of something. He seems to be embarrassed by my question.”

So, such is the deception of this group of errorists, and they crave attention.

***

GJ - Paul, just keep selling Justification and Rome - and let the readers understand. They do not need Holy Mama Synod telling them what to think. If you would just accept a call to a congregation you might find out what people outside the Thrivent-ELCA-executive office suites are thinking.

Not Falsifiable Claims about UOJ and Robert Preus

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

Pr. Greg,

The Herr Prof. Gard's claim suffers a shipwreck in my of course opinion.

He stated:


To state it once again: Dr. Robert Preus never changed his doctrinal position on Objective Justification

Such a claim is not falsifiable. It is pretty serious in my business, i.e. your testimony sir can not be admitted as evidence.

Apparently LC-MS theologians do not care if what they claim meets the standards for evidence.

I should not be shocked but I am.

LPC

***

GJ - Here is the definition of falsifiable from WordWeb, a cool free program - "Capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation."

In other words, no one can prove or disprove this claim. But what are we missing or avoiding? Yes, the book itself. What does Justification and Rome teach? California pointed out that the value of printed books is - they last and cannot be changed in a twinkle the way a web page can.

For example, I looked up the link where the LCMS banned McCain's horribly edited Book of Concord. The page existed before,  because I linked it and copied much of it. But I got - Error 404. Page Not Found.
Like the Church and Change material in WELS, or Ski's blog about the Drive Babtist Worship Conference, all someone has to do is remove the link or change the URL.

But Justification and Rome sits near my desk, next to my pile of Walther and Stephan resources. I remember when STD was a divinity degree, not something on a bishop's health record.

The datum is the book, which they will not argue. If Rolf really did help edit the book, why not share the actual draft he inherited? Why not debate the book rather than his self-serving memory?

Pixelated Gospel Now Available from Blog List

Oddly, Robert Preus' grandson used this pixelated graphic of Robert Preus.

This is the original photo of Robert Preus, easily available on Google Images.

One reader wanted the link to the perfervid UOJ discussion on Steadfast Enthusiasts, so I added the Andrew Preus, Seminary Student blog link to the list on the left. I learned from a recent post that the Canadian seminary teaches rock-solid UOJ, eh? Color me surprised.

At least they are posting both sides of the issue there, as this blog does. The trouble is, Steadfast thinks that Stephan-Walther Halle Pietism is Lutheran orthodoxy. Why did cell groups take over the Olde Synodical Conference? Because they came over on the ships with Walther and Stephan.

Luther Rocks: Growtivational

Luther Rocks: Growtivational:




'via Blog this'

All Hat - No Cattle: The Bedroom Blogger Strikes Again

Paul McCain - again:
Just a warning to those who may be reading this and might be misled by Mr. Jackson.

Mr. Jackson is a former Lutheran pastor who moved from Lutheran church to Lutheran church, being removed from at least two, as he managed to make himself persona non grata in LCA, LCMS, WELS and CLC circles. He has now tried, with increasing desperation and childish displays of pique, created an alleged “congregation” that consists of immediate family members and a very small circle of Internet congregants, even to the point of claiming to “distribute” the “Lord’s Supper” to them via an Internet connection and streaming worship services from a spare bedroom in his home.

He has a need to be regarded as some sort of expert on all things Lutheran. Suffice it to say, Mr. Jackson never understood Robert Preus, for he never, at any point, in spite of the many academic credentials he loves to mention, received a thorough orthodox and confessional Lutheran education.

So, please warned and aware of Mr. Jackson and his dangerous false teaching.

I have cautioned the BJS web master to be aware that Jackson and his followers will attempt to dominate every conversation on this site, always eager to try to promote and propagate their false teaching. They will, if left unchecked, attempt to turn attention to themselves and their agenda no matter what the topic of conversation here is.

Mr. Jackson has been banned from any number of other Lutheran discussion sites for this behavior.

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John Standley replied:

How about your behavior, Mr. McCain? You’re pretty unloving as well. If what Dr. Jackson says is sooooo wrong then all you have to do is cite the Word and understand that the Word will show the correct doctrine, whether it be your side or his side. Using personal attacks shows that you are worried that the Word won’t do what it’s supposed to do.

Do I agree with some of Jackson’s tactics? No. I see his humor and I laugh along with him. But it seems like you and others get really pissed and then try to defame him. At least Dr. Jackson, when he speaks against what a person says, uses cited quotes from that person.

Like I said before, when you submit yourself to the level of bad-talk instead of dealing with the words, you show yourself to be scared that your words won’t work — instead of trusting God’s Word to work where and when it pleases.

P.S. I appreciate your work on the new BoC.

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Lito Cruz, PhD:


McCain, You are just sour because Jackson had a more thorough education and unlike you he was not intellectually in-bred.

***

GJ - I do not know who John Standley is. I thought his response was perspicacious.

I am impressed by the number of people willing to challenge the wacky world absolution opinion so ardently promoted by McCain, Preus, Cascione, F. Pieper, J. P. Meyer, Walther, and Bishop Stephan the Syphilitic. The issue is not agreement with me, but with the Word of God.

Why is a parish-allergic book salesmen so offended that people wanted to participate in traditional Lutheran services? People all over the world watch our videos and read the sermons. They can judge for themselves.

Bethany Lutheran Church has shown the Olde Synodical Conference how to reach people across the world without spending millions of dollars - but that is the point. How can mission executives travel to Rio and the French Riviera if some bloke is broadcasting for free across the world?

We do not beg for Thrivent dollars or sell their insurance in exchange for church calendars, free napkins, and commissions disguised as grants. Therefore, we do not support the Salvation Army religion (as Thrivent does) or Habitat for Humanity.

There is a precedent for a tent-making ministry. Hint - it rhymes with McCain's first name.

McCain parades his slander as facts. Each choleric post has a different falsehood added, but that comes from the man who was not working with Otten, although Otten has files full of McCain materials.

Why did McCain suddenly apologize to Norman Teigen, privately and publicly? I have the letter Norman wrote to Concordia Publishing House. More significantly, why did McCain viciously attack Norman, inventing a spurious charge and suggesting Teigen should be excommunicated? I could see no connection between Norman's modest and humble comment and McCain's rage - when it first appeared.

I could dissect McCain's latest tantrum, but I would rather laugh at the responses to him. If that is his defense of UOJ, the false doctrine is finished, kaput, shovel-ready.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "All Hat - No Cattle: The Bedroom Blogger Strikes A...":

McCain, "received a thorough orthodox and confessional Lutheran education."

Translation: "received a thorough Synodical indoctrination."

When clergy question the false gospel of UOJ in the Lutheran Synods it usually becomes a circus, like watching hobo's on a hotdog, as they form a posse to re-educate the one so bold as to question the undocumented doctrine.

***

GJ - Repeat-after-me is the standard fare at seminaries. During the Seminex days, the so-called student rebels were simply following what their professors told them to think.

The MDiv's devotion to their professor's lecture notes is touching indeed, but contrary to their ordination vows, based on the Word of God and the Confessions.

ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace Eau Claire, Announces His Divorce - St. Paul religion & politics | Examiner.com

D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace Eau Claire, Announces Divorce - St. Paul religion & politics | Examiner.com:


Duane C. Pederson was pastor of First Lutheran Church in Eau Claire for over a decade before becoming the Bishop of the Northwest Synod of Wisconsin in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.  When disgruntled members of Grace Eau Claire decided to start their own mission congregation, or Synodically Authorized Worshipping Community, First Lutheran just down the street was a natural place to hold their first services.

Grace Lutheran Church took a vote to disaffiliate from the ELCA, which narrowly failed, but also voted to affiliate with Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ in a measure to maintain congregational harmony and unity among a majority of members who have found the anti-Biblical theological drift of the ELCA a violation of their own bound conscience.

After the vote, Pederson wrote in an email to a large number of undisclosed recipients, “This past week, I initiated contact with a number of folks who have provided leadership to those who oppose disaffiliation, and others who have not given leadership but who have been dismayed and troubled by what has transpired at Grace.   Nearly all indicate that it is time to depart Grace for the sake of their own faith and personal well-being.”


Pederson and his Synod worked in 2011 to establish “Amazing Grace Lutheran Church,” LLC.   In his invitation to their first worship service, the Bishop wrote,

“Many may wish to worship at a new Synodically Authorized Worshiping Community (SAWC) whose first worship service will be held Sunday after Easter, May 1, 4 pm, at First Lutheran in Eau Claire, and each Sunday thereafter.  Initially, my staff and I will lead the services.  In the near future, the time will likely change to a Sunday morning time.  Those who assemble will determine, with my support, what their life together will become – perhaps it will be a group who assembles for worship for a few months while the future is determined before disbursing to other congregations; perhaps it will become a community with some longevity if there is enough interest and participation; perhaps the community could become a satellite of an existing congregation; perhaps the community could become the beginning of a new congregation.  With the start of this SAWC, there are no preconceived notions as to what it will become, if anything.

It is my hope that many people will assemble on May 1 to begin envisioning a new future.  It is time to “shake the dust off our feet” and move on”

Many saw the Bishop’s creation of a new mission church as the ELCA’s new model for dealing with congregations leaving the ELCA, mirrored after the many successful missions founded by Christians leaving the denomination.

Over time, Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC hasn’t amounted to much of anything, and neither Bishop Pederson nor the former disgruntled members of Grace Lutheran have “moved on.”  Pastor Miller, who served First Lutheran, concerned about the burden of resources and his own congregation becoming embroiled in the dysfunction of denominational politics, agreed to allow Bishop Pederson’s “Synodically Authorized Worshiping Community” to meet at his congregation through the end of January.  Sources maintain that when Pastor Miller indicated his intention to hold fast to the February 1st deadline, he was removed as pastor of the congregation this past January.  Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC now continues to meet in the First Lutheran Church building.

What ensued, in full cooperation with the Bishop’s office, the Synod Council, and the Synod Council consultation committee, is a full-court-press legal battle in the courts of Wisconsin.  Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC and its members have filed lawsuits against Grace Eau Claire to take control of the property and assets.

Local observers not affiliated with either church are acutely aware of the conflict.  “That little group is tearing up two congregations right now, even First Lutheran is in total disarray,” said one man about "Amazing Grace."

On the domestic front, Bishop Pederson announced in a letter to all his congregations that he and his Wife Sylvia are moving on and have begun the legal process of divorce.  “That letter came from this office on official synod letterhead,” confirmed a synod spokesman.

Writing of the divorce, Pederson says,

“Arriving at this point has been many years in the making.  While we do not intend to discuss the details and reasons for ending our marriage, we are now taking a step that is very public.  It is enough for you to know that we are not involved with other people, we have sought and are seeking appropriate support, and the demands of the office of bishop are not a contributing factor.  We are appreciative of Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson’s counsel and care.”

Though divorce among Lutheran clergy is not unheard of - 38% of Lutheran pastors’ marriages end in divorce mostly as a result of burnout in ministry - many clergy are asked to leave their positions and not accept another call for a period of time following their divorce. Bishop Pederson has indicated he intends to continue as Bishop of the Northwest Synod, breaking with a long-standing tradition of repentance and time away from the ministry while the pastor sorts out his life.  In fact, in the ELCA, pastors are strongly advised, often even forced, to take a leave of absence when they decide to divorce- a position affirmed in the denomination's statement on human sexuality: "Gift and Trust".

Psychologist Donald Siposnek PhD., an expert in child custody disputes, says that the process of divorce leaves individuals feeling powerless, causing them to exercise power in other areas of their lives in dysfunctional ways.  For pastors and Bishops, who are called to shepherd God’s flock as the Heavenly Father would Shepherd his flock, divorce usually has the effect of severely impairing a pastor’s ability, at least in the short term, to minister in healthy ways as he struggles to regain a sense of power and control in his own life.  

Essentially, Grace Lutheran Church is seen by some as the child in a bitter custody dispute subjected to the spiritual and emotional trauma of becoming a vehicle by which their Bishop regains a sense of control and equilibrium of power over his own life.  Some have suggested that Bishop Pederson’s change in position from letting Grace Eau Claire leave the ELCA peacefully and orderly to a position of enabling and encouraging- or at the very least refusing to publicly denounce and discourage- a protracted legal battle coincides with the culmination of the announcement of his divorce.  Many point to the fact that there are over 20 congregations across the United States “dually affiliated” in which their Bishops are not playing a role to encourage and enable bitter and pro-tracted legal disputes.  Those congregations are all in synods where their bishops have a publicly healthy family life.  “Pastors might exercise control in unhealthy ways over congregations to make up for the loss of control they have experienced in their own lives as they go through divorce.”

Christian Psychologists who counsel pastors and bishops through divorce warn clergy of the ways in which divorce can impact churches and synods, recognizing that as imperfect people even clergy fall into the trap of playing out their own conflicted personal lives upon the lives of those they have been entrusted to minister to and support.

Christian Divorce Services advises clergy,“If Satan can’t rip people away from Christ through your divorce, he will use it to rip apart your church.”

Sometimes the only way to restore peace, harmony, and spiritual health is for the pastor or bishop to step down out of a sense of divine grace and love for the ministry and his flock.  This takes great humility and a greater sense of commitment to your vows of ordination than to constitutional or canon law.

It is unlikely that Bishop Pederson will leave his post anytime soon as a member of a constitutionally driven rather than Biblically driven denomination, though his resignation as Bishop may be the most prudent and faithful choice he can make.  As he remains bishop, psychologists would offer that the Eau Claire congregations under his care could continue to be in bitter conflict, despair, and disarray perhaps for years to come as the Bishop overcomes his own personal sense of loss, powerlessness, conflict, and despair.  Individual members and even entire churches would be faced with one of two choices: stay on for the bumpy ride, or find someplace else- even some other denomination- to go to.  The reality, though, is that many Christians walk away and never return to any Church.

Eau Claire, a small town where virtually everybody knows everybody else, will experience the effects of this bitter Church fight, vis-a-vis the Bishop’s divorce, for years to come.



'via Blog this'

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace...":

What's ironic is the two large ELCA churches were just one block apart from each other. When I was a kid I attended a service or two at one or the other of these ELCA churches, but I can't remember which one. I only remember how the inside looked, and their websites don't have panoramic views of the interior:

http://g.co/maps/56s6g

Grace Lutheran (now LCMC):
http://www.grace-church.org/

First Lutheran:
http://first-lutheran.org/about/

Frantic Floggers of UOJ Miss the Point.No Authority Trumps the Word of God or the Confessions

I find Paul appealing,
but McCain appalling.

KJV Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The first student post at Steadfast Enthusiasts gathered over 500 comments and is still moving along. Therefore, Andrew Preus posted a second, similar post, which is also gathering comments. Meanwhile, LaughQuest has turned a Sabre of Boldness award into another defense of Universal Objective Justification, forgiveness without the Word of God, an opinion called "pure and wholesome" by Andrew's father, Rolf.

Some are chiming in to say Robert Preus never rejected UOJ, although his book proves otherwise. To show I am wrong, Andrew cited a Geneva-trained theologian not mentioned in Justification and Rome. "My dead aunt Gertrude agrees with me, so that proves I am right." That is the line of thinking displayed as the UOJ train begins to derail.

The Kokomo Statements (three from J. P. Meyer's book, Ministers of Christ) are either used by the pernicious justification-by-faith Lutherans to abuse UOJ or they are the official teaching of the Wisconsin Sect. They are wonderful but criticized by Jon Buchholz, the desert DP. My head spins trying to follow the authorities whirling around. But that is the trouble with Enthusiasm, when the Holy Spirit is divorced from the Word. All the opinions have that in common, but harmony is impossible. Either God declared the entire world forgiven the moment Christ died - or - He did so the moment Christ rose from the dead. In both cases He neglected to give us a single passage saying this was true. So the UOJ Stormtroopers cannot even get the most important date in world history straight. That does not bode well for the longevity of their fad.

But all the UOJ fussing avoids the central point, revealed by St. Paul, a major theme of the Reformation - No other Gospel. The Lutheran Reformers cited Galatians 1:8 frequently and refused to compromise on justification by faith. If they could bring Robert Preus back from the dead, or an angel, or the Apostle Paul, and all agreed against the Gospel, the Gospel would remain true.

The state churches of Germany were rationalistic in the 19th century, so those authorities were in complete agreement with the universities. All agreed - Christianity was at best as a moralistic, society-transforming philosophy. That was their emergent church, so believers could not be ordained in most cases. The power of church and state did not repudiate the truth of the Scriptures. That did not change one iota of the Word of God.

Synods Do Not Establish Doctrine

Michigan Lutheran Seminary, WELS: Habemus Papam!

Rev. Joel Petermann has accepted the call to serve as president of Michigan Lutheran Seminary (MLS), Saginaw, Mich. MLS is one of four three two WELS preparatory high schools operated by the synod. The MLS president has many responsibilities, including leading the school in its mission to train students for the public ministry of the gospel and to encourage them to attend Martin Luther College, New Ulm, Minn., upon graduation.

Petermann currently serves as pastor at St. Paul, Amherst, N.H., and president of the North Atlantic District. He will continue in those roles on a limited basis as he gradually transitions into his new position. After the North Atlantic District elects a new president this summer, Petermann will complete the transition and assume the role of school president full time.

A 1986 graduate of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wis., Petermann has experience as a preparatory school and college instructor, a home missionary, and a parish pastor. Although Petermann will miss many aspects of parish ministry, he is looking forward to “encouraging young people to consider the glorious and joyous ministry of the gospel of Jesus.”

The position of MLS president has been vacant since September 2010, but Rev. George Ferch, chairman of MLS’s Governing Board, reports that the vacancy has been capably filled by Dr. William Zeiger, vice president of MLS.

Paul McCain - The Fruit of UOJ

Paul McCain graduated from a Roman Catholic high school,
but never really left.
The crypto-papists in the LCMS love him for that.

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Pope Paul the Unlearned Denounces Himself":

Read Paul McCain's rants on the BJS Justification thread. His opening salvo was a spit filled personal attack. He continually goaded myself and Lito Cruz to talk about the distribution of Holy Communion at Bethany Lutheran Church. I answered his question with a series of my own questions trying to narrow down his main concern. His response was another hate filled attack at Pastor Jackson.

Was all of that a fruit of faith?...not a chance. Some people who do not have the Holy Spirit's faith in Christ do not go out with a wimper, they go out snarling like a rabid chipmunk.

UOJ is evil. It is a false gospel spawned in the heart of reason by men, who rejected the Holy Spirit's gracious and reassuring faith in Christ alone, created to establish their full absolution and righteousness without faith. OJ and SJ were simply terms used to limit the omnipotent declarations of God and change the righteousness of Christ in the Holy Spirit's faith into a beggar's withered hand.

Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolution. Another Epic Fail

This photo is much better than the pixelated monstrosity posted in Steadfast Enthusiasts.

Young Andrew Preus is still in seminary, at St. Catharines, eh?

But he wants to rescue Robert Preus from the accusation that his grandfather taught justification by faith in his final book, repudiating the UOJ that animates the Olde Synodical Conference, as it did Halle University and Stephan Huber.

Not so! - young Andrew insists. Perhaps he will write his MDiv thesis on The Errors of Ichabod.

But Andrew wants to argue from the lecture notes of the 1980s, which only proves my point. I would love to have the actual lecture notes, plus the original draft of Justification and Rome. Nevertheless, the book is a repudiation of UOJ, even after being mauled and abused by Dan and Rolf. I can only deal with the actual data--the published book--not the smokescreen interpretation of the perfervid clan. The 1980s notes do not prove the book argues UOJ.

The sad fact remains - the clan cannot see the plain meaning of the book, just as they cannot comprehend the clear words of the Scripture - not even in the Romans 4:24-25 transition to Romans 5:1-2.

What makes their claims valid? They say, "We are related, so we know. We have the Deposit of Faith." My grandfather was an inventor, but that does not make me one. He was a mechanical genius, but I break things while repairing them. The DNA argument only works among the Synodical Conference types, who regard in-breeding as a plus.

I will get into the recent history of this conflict. Jack and Robert Preus used a vicious attack against Walter Maier Junior to displace him as the next president of the seminary (Springfield moving to Ft. Wayne). The excuse was that Maier taught justification by faith instead of UOJ.

Jack launched a national campaign, and it worked. Maier was sprayed with skunk aroma, and that stuck. In fact, I have been accused of being a "Maier disciple," although I never appeal to his work. That made any Ft. Wayne backing away from UOJ awkward, because it would have meant that the Preus-Scaer-Marquart team was wrong.

They could argue from Walther-Pieper-Stoeckhardt, but they could not base their opinions on the Book of Concord, Luther, or the Scriptures. I have studied plenty of UOJ literature. They admit in their own publications, as the amusing Jack Kilcrease has, that UOJ or OJ or General Justification are new terms never found in the Confessions or Holy Writ. They have even conceded that the Biblical word justification always means justification by faith. Always!

Now there is a replay of the same conflict. Ft. Wayne's David Scaer is still an ardent UOJ advocate, but Ft. Wayne's Pless clearly teaches otherwise.

The pixelated photo of Robert Preus is like the  picture of justification offered by Andrew:
distorted.

Synods Do Not Establish Doctrine


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Rev. James Schulz:

I don’t think that Robert Preus denied Objective Justification as much as he didn’t see the need to use the term in “Justification and Rome.” If the Objective/Subjective Justification categorization is so obvious, so convincing, such pure, unadulterated gospel, such a crystal clear explanation of how a person is saved, then why didn’t Robert Preus present it that way in “Justification and Rome”? Why didn’t the Concordists present it that way? Why is it always assumed, but never categorized in such manner as it has since the 1980s:
The Doctrine of Justification
1. Objective Justification
2. Subjective Justification


I remain unconvinced that we need to emphasize the terms “Objective” and “Subjective” Justification because they effectively fight off the false doctrine of synergism. I remain unconvinced that the authors and editors of the Book of Concord were fighting Justification by works and so emphasized “Subjective Justification” instead of “Objective Justification.”


So, convince me.


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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

Andrew Preus continues the same tactic as prior UOJers. Whenever confronted with the facts, they downplay UOJ to make it sound as Lutheran as possible, and not a product of Reformed Decretal theology. UOJers ought to be made to defend, not the aspects of UOJ that might sound most Lutheran, but the aspect of UOJ that sounds most Reformed, i.e., that the Father DECREED that the entire world was justified on the day of resurrection.

Sebastian Schmidt, by the way, studied in Geneva for his doctorate, and Strasburg U. where he taught was getting into Reformed territory, if it wasn't in Reformed territory. 


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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

I see that an LC-MS prof chimed in saying he was in constant conversation w Robert Preus till his death and Preus never backed away from UOJ. He expects us to take his word for it right?

At any rate Preus stands or fall in the relation to the Word and what he wrote in Justification and Rome. He did a lousy job teaching UOJ there.

LPC

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GJ - I do not accept testimonials from seances when we have the book available. I have bought three and given two away. Someone on Steadfast pointed out that Message A does not always come through to students, who heard Message B, if they are listening at all. Chemnitz said he wished he would have listened more to Luther when he had the chance.

Pope Paul the Unlearned Denounces Himself

Steadfast Enthusiasts


His Holiness spoke from his blogging throne in the guest bedroom:


"The ironic thing is that in spite of all Jackson’s alleged scholarship, he actually never received a solid Lutheran theological education, and that shows in all his weird rants and ravings. A shame he has gathered a tiny little band of Internet followers around him. Deceiving and being deceived."


McCain, as a young MDiv, asked me to review Kurt Marquart's book on the Church - in Christian News. When the review appeared, he wrote back with great happiness that the book was selling like hotcakes as a result.


McCain was quite willing to review my Liberalism: Its Cause and Cure - for Christian News. He was quite positive about it. I could also quote from his letters when he was campaign manager for Al Barry and Secret-Agent-Man at Christian News.


I do not know what made him become so rancid at such an early age - not to mention what caused his appalling loss of memory.


I also studied at his alma mater, taking classes with Klemet Preus and David Scaer. I attended lectures by Robert Preus and Kurt Marquart. Marquart and another professor (at St. Louis) wrote positive reviews of Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant.


Most people know that, but McCain's grasp of basic facts is slipping. He constantly reads this blog, as do others who need edification but only find reason to be even more bitter and hateful. I do not understand it.


McCain is not qualified to teach in higher education. He knows that, but has never done the work required to make him a qualified scholar. A PhD is recognition of proven scholarship, not an allegation of scholarship.  


McCain has never really served a parish, since his first and only parish job was just a cover, so he could get DP Al Barry elected in place of Ralph Bohlmann. Since then he has successfully dodged a congregational call. That makes him a "pastor," a shepherd without a flock, and an expert in theology? He is the only editor I know who had a Book of Concord recalled by his own denomination - for gross defects.

Febreze Fumigates The CORE

Febreeze has left a new comment on your post "Another Lulu.com Sale":

So I was recently Googling The CORE's stuff. I found some stuff on Youtube. Apparently after each praise session they ask those in attendance what they thought. The following are youtube videos and my initial comments on them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGCa4P2lF8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyU1rC41ptc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5QFkNyLFPQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPb_gyMvMzI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zBFCkid0tg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwMTH_Ir6lg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V08Xz6NXhGM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcaCeLRpMPU&feature=autoplay&list=UUIKirTPZYdvN9ue_32Wwu4A&lf=plcp&playnext=1

Now, I will admit, my comments are very unorganized. My comments really pertain to the videos I have linked and maybe some that I didn't link. Forgive my non-organization of my comments to the videos. But if one watches the videos they will see where my comments arise from.

My comments are as follows (along with the connotations of  The CORE's members):

"Ski is awesome"

"The music is great and relates to us."

"We worship and we sing."

"God is there, he's waitng for us to cry out to him."

"Heard the airport sounds and the setting was awesome"

"I'm at home at the airport"

"The message is just what I needed to hear" (as opposed to the Law and Gospel presented at a "traditional" Lutheran service?...what makes the Gospel different at the CORE then at a liturgical church?)

"I come because the people are nice"

"The CORE is relevant because it's a sinful zone as opposed to a sinless zone" (what? if we we're sinless we wouldn't go to church. We go to church, at a liturgical Service, because it delivers the forgiveness of sins to SINNERS!)

They think "regular" church Services are for "holy people" and not "sinners." They are harking on the third use of the Law. It will burn them out. They are hiding the Gospel because of the primary focus on the third use of the Law. They even admit that (pretty much) they don't like churches who preach the Gospel as opposed to a church who harks on the third use of the Law.

Episode 3: "why do you come?" "I am here because the people are excited, because there is a girraff." (What?)

Episode 4: focused on praise. introduction to people around you...because the Divine Service is all about personal friendships rather than God's Word to you. "what makes it real? Pastor Ski and the people here."

Episode 12: so much time in effort placed into a play like interactive gimmick. Why isn't the focus on the Means of Grace which deliver forgiveness?

The "ready for worship" video: "love this song!" Is it more about the music or...?

Episode 3: who are the muscisians?! They're celebrities! Instead of just assisting worship humbly.

Episode 7: "meeting other people" My comments would be: we grow in our relationship with God not through a pumped up preacher, popcorn, soda, and music, but through his pure and Holy Word and through the Sacraments. Anything else is putting those things aside and putting our personal interests higher.

From these participants comments it comes off that they were just released from an action movie or a motivational speaker. I would never guess that they were released from the confession of sins, Law and Gospel exposition, and the Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Where does this "praise" mentality come from? I have to wonder. Some say it comes from UOJ because UOJ says we just need to accept that we're already forgiven -- therefore we "praise" him because of his already declared verdict. Others say that it's not even that, but, rather it's because we need to feel connected to Jesus without the Word and Sacraments but rather through music, popcorn, and a pumped up, eccentric preacher. With either case, in my opinion, it's pure Enthusiasm.

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Luther - The Large Catechism:

Therefore I beg such lazy paunches or presumptuous saints to be persuaded and believe for God's sake that they are verily, verily! not so learned or such great doctors as they imagine; and never to presume that they have finished learning this [the parts of the Catechism], or know it well enough in all points, even though they think that they know it ever so well. For though they should know and understand it perfectly (which, however, is impossible in this life), yet there are manifold benefits and fruits still to be obtained, if it be daily read and practised in thought and speech; namely, that the Holy Ghost is present in such reading and repetition and meditation, and bestows ever new and more light and devoutness, so that it is daily relished and appreciated better, as Christ promises, Matt. 18:20: Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.


10] Besides, it is an exceedingly effectual help against the devil, the world, and the flesh and all evil thoughts to be occupied with the Word of God, and to speak of it, and meditate upon it, so that the First Psalm declares those blessed who meditate upon the Law of God day and night. Undoubtedly, you will not start a stronger incense or other fumigation against the devil than by being engaged upon God's commandments and words, and speaking, singing, or thinking of them. For this is indeed the true holy water and holy sign from which he flees, and by which he may be driven away.


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GJ - I love the baggage video where the man drags his baggage to The CORE and no one is there.

Dual Purpose - Thrivent Grant?

Another Lulu.com Sale

Place the code word in the window at the bottom of the order, update the order, and the discount will apply.

Each sale only works once, but these sales keep appearing. Go to the main lulu.com page to find the graphic. I will try to keep up with them.

This is where to order the books. PDF downloads are free.

Comments against UOJ, Steadfast Lutherans

Brett Meyer:

Dr. Kilcrease doesn’t understand why I post quotes from Scripture or the Lutheran Confessions without explaining them. It’s been a source of frustration before as it is now.


The reason is that direct quotes from Scripture are God’s pure Word. Through the Word the Holy Ghost works to build and strengthen faith in those God has called and also to harden the hearts of those who reject it.


Scripture doesn’t require philisophical manipulation in order to wrench a “concept” from it. God speaks clearly throughout the Bible which is the reason we look at the whole of God’s Word regarding Justification and not pixilate it as the sophists do. God’s Word is completely harmonious – there is no contradiction.
False teachings are contrary to God’s Word and will be, by their nature, contradictory to it.


I do not often go into great explanatory detail when I quote the Confessions. They too are very clear as they are wholely faithful to Scripture which is the Norm for Christian doctrine, Christian faith. It’s also good to let the Confessors speak directly to those who care enough to study.


It’s a trait of false teachings that they must masticate the source in order to substantiate their doctrines which are contrary to the source – in this case Scripture.


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Brett Meyer:

Rev. McCall, Dr. Kilcrease,
I assure you there are no theological suppositions being superimposed on Scripture from the Justification by Faith Alone for the forgiveness of sins, righteousness and eternal life team.

Defense of my assertion is to quote the BOC, Smalcald articles Part II, Article I: The first and chief article. Note that the exposition of Rom. 4:25,John 1:29, Rom 3:23, Rom 3:26 the Confessors do not decree the unforgiven world forgiven without faith but clearly state forgiveness (justification) is by faith alone.

1] That Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins, and was raised again for our justification, Rom. 4:25.

2] And He alone is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world, John 1:29; and God has laid upon Him the iniquities of us all, Is. 53:6.

3] Likewise: All have sinned and are justified without merit [freely, and without their own works or merits] by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, in His blood, Rom. 3:23f

4] Now, since it is necessary to believe this, and it cannot be otherwise acquired or apprehended by any work, law, or merit, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us as St. Paul says, Rom. 3:28: For we conclude that a man is justified by faith, without the deeds of the Law. Likewise 3:26: That He might be just, and the Justifier of him which believeth in Christ.

5] Of this article nothing can be yielded or surrendered [nor can anything be granted or permitted contrary to the same], even though heaven and earth, and whatever will not abide, should sink to ruin. For there is none other name under heaven, given among men whereby we must be saved, says Peter, Acts 4:12. And with His stripes we are healed, Is. 53:5. And upon this article all things depend which we teach and practice in opposition to the Pope, the devil, and the [whole] world.Therefore, we must be sure concerning this doctrine, and not doubt; for otherwise all is lost, and the Pope and devil and all things gain the victory and suit over us.
http://bookofconcord.org/smalcald.php#officeandworkofjesus

Also, under the Solid Declaration in the BOC forgiveness follows faith and without faith the unbelieving world is not accounted righteous and forgiven but under God’s wrath:

20] However, now that man has not kept the Law of God, but transgressed it, his corrupt nature, thoughts, words, and works fighting against it, for which reason he is under God’s wrath, death, all temporal calamities, and the punishment of hell-fire, the Gospel is properly a doctrine which teaches what man should believe, that he may obtain forgiveness of sins with God, namely, that the Son of God, our Lord Christ, has taken upon Himself and borne the curse of the Law, has expiated and paid for all our sins, through whom alone we again enter into favor with God, obtain forgiveness of sins by faith, are delivered from death and all the punishments of sins, and eternally saved.

http://bookofconcord.org/sd-lawandgospel.php

This BOC quote also rejects Dr. Kilcrease’s teaching that the imperitive to “believe”, as a requirement for the forgiveness of sins, is Law and not Gospel. It is most definitely Gospel because Faith is solely worked, created and sustained by the Holy Ghost through the Means of Grace.

And in order to counter the UOJ claim that the BOC was only speaking of what UOJ would call Subjective Justification the BOC declares the two ways in which Scripture uses the word Justified – neither of them being a declaration of forgiveness without faith graciously worked through the Means of Grace.

72] And because “to be justified” means that out of unjust men just men are made, or born again, it means also that they are pronounced or accounted just. For Scripture speaks in both ways. [The term "to be justified" is used in two ways: to denote, being converted or regenerated; again, being accounted righteous.] Accordingly we wish first to show this, that faith alone makes of an unjust, a just man, i.e., receives remission of sins.

http://bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php

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Brett Meyer:

The Seventh-Day Adventists confess the same UOJ as the Lutheran Synods.

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Universal%20Justification.htm

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Lito Cruz:

Mr. Halvorson,

To add a bit more, to my post in

@Lito P. Cruz, PhD #68

The way to interpret Romans 4:25 that is safe and fair is to put it in context with the rest of Romans 4 as part of an argument and further to look at the statements of St Paul as a statement which includes the story of our Redemption as Christians.

Before you shoot more questions, I would suggest you deal with the explanation of Walther A. Maier whose paper I have included in the above post. Please study that paper carefully and try to shut yourself for the moment from any propaganda, if you wish by Team JBFA or Team UOJ.

When you have done that, I am happy to answer questions which you might direct to me personally.

LPC


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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Comments against UOJ, Steadfast Lutherans":

I recommend reading through the "Oh did you hear what Rydecki said..." post on LutherQuest. Count each time a leap of human reason occurs in the confessions of those commenting.

For example here is a snippet from a comment from UOJ promoter Rolf Preus, " If Jesus paid the ransom and the Father accepted the ransom this must mean that God has absolved everyone for whom the ransom was paid. Otherwise God's a cheat."

The leap of human reason is "...this must mean..." add 1 to your count

http://www.lutherquest.org/cgi-bin/discus40/discus.cgi  

Johnny goes marching home again

•   Medal of Honor
•   Silver Star
•   Legion of Merit
•   Bronze Star
•   Purple Heart

Johnny goes marching home again:


Sadly, a few decision-makers never forgave Baker for dropping out. When he was nominated in 2004 for Moline High School's Hall of Honor, he was rejected. Even though school officials had excitedly awarded him an honorary diploma upon his return from war, it wasn't good enough.

Gary Koeller, Moline's principal at the time, added that more than "just a single phenomenon" was expected of a Hall of Honor inductee.

But even before President Lyndon Johnson hung the Medal of Honor around Baker's neck for selflessly saving the lives of eight Americans, the 5-foot, 2-inch soldier was awarded the Bronze Star, Silver Star and Purple Heart. He completed 300 missions as a "tunnel rat," crawling through tunnels and planting explosives where the enemy traveled.

In 1989, Baker retired from the U.S. Army as a master sergeant after serving 24 years.
After that, he went to work as a computer analyst for the Veterans Affairs hospital in Columbia, S.C., one of the largest VA hospitals in the country.

He long served as vice president of the Congressional Medal of Honor Society. And he was appointed by President George W. Bush in 2002 to serve on the National Cemetery Association's advisory committee on cemeteries and memorials.

He accepted invitations to speak at more than 1,000 public schools. The Interstate 280 Bridge was renamed Baker Bridge.

He was no one-hit wonder.

But the decision-makers at the high school refused to back off. One of Baker's former stepsons launched a relentless attack, claiming Baker was an alcoholic and was abusive to his mother after returning from Vietnam.

Even after an investigation by a retired FBI agent and a former member of the Secret Service revealed no such darkness in his past, school officials clung to their snubbing.

Ironically, the purpose of the Hall of Honor is: "To honor Moline High School alumni who have achieved distinction and positively influenced the lives of others."


Read more: http://www.qctimes.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/barb-ickes/johnny-goes-marching-home-again/article_da95f362-4719-11e1-8e26-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1lcIKWdHy


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GJ - Synods are far more petty, excelling in driving members and ministers away.

Sceptics Think the NNIV Battle in WELS Is Not Over

ChurchMouse - Carl Olof Rosenius

Carl Olof Rosenius is essential to the history of
Swedish Pietism and the Augustana Synod.

Swedish pietism: Carl Olof Rosenius and George Scott « Churchmouse Campanologist:


Although I plan to post on David Gustafson’s book on Moody and Swedish pietists (mentioned therein) early next week, it seemed apposite to explore the possibilities for their appetite for Anglo-American holiness.

A likely place to begin is with two men, Carl Olof Rosenius, Lutheran pietist and George Scott, an English Methodist.


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