I see a new name on on followers list - Kirk. That is all I know.
Welcome, Kirk.
ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
From Another Blog
February 9, 2009 by Rick
“This year’s Lenten services will begin on February 25th, Ash Wednesday,” and our congregation, St. Peter, will not be a part of the usual pastor rotation. Instead, Pastor Skorzewski (aka “Pastor Ski”) and Pastor Glende (aka “Pastor Tim”) will each lead three of the six services. According to our December/January/February 2008-2009 newsletter, the reason our “Lenten services will not include a pulpit exchange of pastors” is due “to pastor vacancies in the area.”
James Skorzewski is pastor of The CORE, our new daughter congregation. The CORE will begin holding services the Sunday after Easter at the defunct Big Picture movie theater. The Big Picture is similar to an IMAX theater, except the Big Picture’s movie screen is larger than a standard IMAX. The Big Picture boasts an entertainment screen that is 80 feet wide and 60 feet tall.
Also, this puts The CORE only one block away from another WELS church: St. Paul Evangelical Lutheran Church and School. St. Paul is a congregation of over 1100 members and is notable for its outreach efforts among Hmong immigrants. There are over 40 other WELS congregations within a 20 mile radius from The CORE’s new location. Within about a mile of The CORE, there are four other WELS congregations each averaging over 1000 members. Lawrence University is also near by.
The CORE’s plan is to reach out to the people in the Appleton area who would not consider becoming Lutheran or WELS. In other words, The CORE’s goal is to reach all the people those large WELS congregations are not reaching. The CORE’s motto is, “In order to reach people no one else is reaching, we must do things no one else is doing.” One of the things The CORE has been planning to do is avoid public identification as a “WELS” and/or as a “Lutheran” congregation.
St. Peter is not supporting The CORE financially. Anonymous WELS members gave $100,000 as well as a parsonage to get The CORE started.
In other news, St. Peter also called Chris Christenson to be our Assistant Pastor to serve under new Senior Pastor Tim Glende. Pastor Glende’s mentor, Rev. Ron Ash retired in 2008 as pastor, but still serves as advisor for The CORE. Pastor Skorzewski and Pastor Ash both serve on the Board of Directors of a controversial organization called Church and Change.
[This personal web log is about amateur photography, worship, history, and anything else of interest from a WELS confessional Lutheran layman’s Christian perspective. If anyone would like to participate, please leave a comment, or contact me directly at x22sun-wordpress2 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.
“Light from Light” is from the Nicene Creed and refers to Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the three person oneness of God (Trinity). God is three persons. God is one. There is only one God.
“Light from Light” also refers to photography.]
Lunch with the Doctrinal Pussycat:
The Anything Goes District
Rev. Douglas J. Engelbrecht
Northern Wisconsin District President
nwdpwels@sab.wels.net
920-722-6712
Great Tuesday. Lunch with my DP, executive meeting, as well as meeting people interested in The CORE. Great things are happening.
Lunch was great. Man it is great to have a DP that wants to reach the Lost and support what we are doing. He's one of the best.
about 1 hour ago from web
---
Times have changed,
And we've often rewound the clock,
Since the Puritans got a shock,
When they landed on Plymouth Rock.
If today,
Any shock they should try to stem,
'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock,
Plymouth Rock would land on them.
In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking,
But now, God knows,
Anything Goes.
Good authors too who once knew better words,
Now only use four letter words
Writing prose, Anything Goes.
---
At his installation:
The CORE will not identify itself as a WELS congregation, and might not identify itself as Lutheran. However, the CORE’s new logo does incorporate a cross.
The service was held in our grade school gymnasium and was well attended. Most of the pastors presiding and attending were wearing jeans and silk shirts, and the Milwaukee band Koine played during the service.
Anything Goes!
Are You Going To Believe Me
Or Your Lying Eyes?
Real Spin has left a new comment on your post "Is the WELS Magazine FIC the Xerox Room for Church...":
Kristin is the "staff minister of worship" not the pastor of the congregation. The Saint Andrews website clearly shows that there is a pastor and vicar (males) as well as a board of elders (all males) presiding over the congregation. www.st-andrew-online.org
The website clearly states that she is "an instrument in ‘administering God’s grace’ in the form of worship gatherings" most likely referring to her help behind the scenes not that she is the one actually administering the means of grace.
If you go further to the sermon downloads you can clearly see that the Pastors preside over the worship service and sermons are delivered by the pastors not the female staff minister.
In the Q&A section of the WELS website there are questions regarding the roles of female staff minister. The answer to one such question is "The specific duties of staff ministers, male or female, will vary with the call extended to them by the calling body. In the case of female staff ministers, of course, the duties may not involve the exercise of authority over men." please see here for context http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=69&cuItem_itemID=7331 additional information on the staff ministry program is available on the MLC website.
Sorry, no female pastor in the WELS just many woman using their God-given abilities in church in a way that is pleasing to God.
***
GJ - Short answer: ordained pastors "administer the Means of Grace."
Brief Statement, 2009: The head of Staff Ministry in WELS is Larry Olson, who obtained his drive-by D.Min. from Fuller Seminary, Cloaca Maxima, where anyone questioning women's ordination is disciplined. He also studied at that stealth WELS training center - Trinity, Deerfield. But Larry is known as the Harmless Heretic with only 75 staff ministers trained so far.
Confession of Faith:
WELS and Evangelical Covenants Agree
Verbatim!
I started seeing an odd agreement among Church Growth congregations when I read their statements of beliefs. I wondered what the Ur-Document was. I think I have found it. This is better than the Rosetta Stone. I have lined up a few lines with the links. Everyone is encouraged to pursue this.
Craig Groeschel's list is the Rosetta Stone of WELS plagiarism. Let's look at the overall order:
God
Jesus Christ
About the Holy Spirit
About the Bible
About Human Beings
About Salvation
About Eternity
The WELS copycats (and CrossRoads, ECC nee WELS, South Lyons) have listed their beliefs in the same order, with some minor variations. I have listed the Rosetta Stone version first, followed by the rest.
God (Groeschel)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are coequal and are one God.
· Genesis 1:1,26,27,3:22
· Psalm 90:2
· Matthew 28:19
· 1 Peter 1:2
· 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
God (Rock and Roll - http://www.ctrtx.net/content/view/20/44/)
God
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty.
Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
God (CrossRoads, started by WELS in S. Lyons, now Evangelical Covenant - http://www.ecrossroads.net/default.aspx?sectionid=2490&pageid=4060)
About God
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are coequal and are one God.
--
God (CrossWalk, WELS, Phoenix - http://www.crosswalkphoenix.com/explore-faith/statement-of-beliefs.aspx)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - “ the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. -- Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
About God (Crown of Life, Corona, California, WELS - http://www.crownoflifechurch.net/aboutus.html) : God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. Genesis 1:1,26,27, 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14.
--
About God (Lord and Savior, WELS, - http://www.lordandsavior.org/site/pastorupdate.asp?sec_id=140001807&nc=1235488527582)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
Genesis 1:1, 26, 27, 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
ABOUT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
God the Father's special work was to create the universe in which we live. He made us along with every creature, gave us our bodies and souls, as well as our gifts and abilities. He still daily preserves us by richly and daily providing all that we need for our bodies and lives. -- Genesis 1:1-2:3; Psalm 33:6-9; Job 10:10-12; Job 38:36; Psalm 36:6-7; Psalm 145:15-16
--
ABOUT GOD (Bethlehem, WELS, Lakeville - http://www.bethlehemlakeville.org/about/our-beliefs)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
ABOUT GOD (Shepherd of the Lakes, WELS, Huebner - Church and Change Board Member - http://shepherdoflakes.com/site/ms.asp?sec_id=140000665)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons “ the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. -- Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
--
Jesus Christ (Groeschel)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is coequal with the Father and Holy Spirit. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven and will return again someday to earth to reign as King.
· Matthew 1:22,23
· Isaiah 9:6
· John 1:1-5,14:10-30
· Hebrews 4:14-15
· 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
· Romans 1:3-4
· Acts 1:9-11
· 1 Timothy 6:14-15
· Titus 2:13
--
Jesus Christ (Rock and Roll)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life. He offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords.
Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; 1Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4 Acts 1:9-11; 1Timothy 6:14-15; Titus 2:13
--
Jesus (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
About Jesus
Jesus is the Son of God. He lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven and will return to take us home to be with Him forever.
--
ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. -- Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13
--
About Jesus Christ (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven’s glory and will return again someday to reign as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13
--
ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (Bethlehem WELS, Lakeville)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13
--
ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (Shepherd of the Lakes, WELS, Huebner)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. -- Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13
About the Holy Spirit (Groeschel)
The Holy Spirit is coequal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. He gives every believer spiritual gifts when they are saved. As Christians we seek to live under His control daily.
· Acts 1:8
· 1 Corinthians 3:17
· John 16:7-13,14:16-17
· Galatians 5:25
· 1 Corinthians 2:12,3:16
· Ephesians 1:13,5:18
--
Holy Spirit (Rock and Roll)
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son in power, authority and majesty. Since we cannot by our own thoughts or choices believe in Christ or come to him, the Holy Spirit calls us to faith through the good news of Jesus Christ. He makes us aware of our sin and deep need for Christ. He also draws us to Christ by working through the Word of God and Baptism. After drawing us to faith, the Holy Spirit then carries out the work of renewing us through Word and Sacrament - giving us power for Christian living, understanding spiritual truth and guidance in doing what is pleasing to God. As Christians, we strive to live under his control daily.
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16-17; Ephesians 1:13
--
Holy Spirit (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
The Holy Spirit is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus. He lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding spiritual truth and guidance in doing what is right. As Christians we daily seek to live under His control.
--
ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son in power, authority and majesty. Since we cannot by our own thoughts or choices believe in Christ or come to him, the Holy Spirit calls us to faith through the good news of Jesus Christ. He makes us aware of our sin and deep need for Christ. He also draws us to Christ by working through the word of God and Baptism. After drawing us to faith, the Holy Spirit then carries out the work of renewing us through word and sacrament – giving us power for Christian living, understanding spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is pleasing to God. As Christians, we strive to live under his control daily. -- 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16-17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:18
--
About the Holy Spirit (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : The Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ and lead them to faith. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. He gives every believer spiritual gifts. As Christians, we seek to live under His control daily. 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:18
About the Bible (Groeschel)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs about living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without error.
· 2 Timothy 3:16, 1:13
· 2 Peter 1:20-21
· Psalm 119:105, 160, 12:6
· Proverbs 30:5
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The Bible (Rock and Roll)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, but this was done under the supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit, a process called inspiration. The Bible is the source of the message of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. It is the source of all truth for Christian beliefs and living. Being inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible is completely free of mistakes, errors or contradictions.
2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119: 105, 160; Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5
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The Bible (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. Because it was inspired by God, it is truth without error.
--
ABOUT THE BIBLE (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, but this was done under the supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit, a process called inspiration. The Bible is the source of the message of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. It is the source of all truth for Christian beliefs and living. Being inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible is completely free of mistakes, errors or contradictions. -- 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119: 105, 160; Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5
About the Bible (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : The Bible is God’s Word to us. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is the truth without any mixture of error. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5
About Human Beings (Groeschel)
People are made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. People are the supreme object of God's creation. Although every person has tremendous potential for good, all of us are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". Sin separates us from God and causes many problems in our life.
· Genesis 1:27
· Psalm 8:3-6
· Isaiah 53:6a
· Romans 3:23
· Isaiah 59:1-2
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Human Beings (Rock and Roll)
People were originally created in the spiritual image of God and were sinless and holy. Since the fall of mankind into sin, this is no longer true. Now, all people are born sinful and are constantly inclined to sin by nature. We are spiritually lost and dead apart from Jesus Christ. However, through faith in Christ we are new-born and are given the ability to serve God, live for his purposes and enjoy his blessings.
Genesis 1:27; Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5; Ephesians 2:1-5; Luke 15; Luke 19:10; John 3:1-21; Romans 12:1-2; 2 Corinthians 9:6-15
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Human Beings (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
People were made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. People are the supreme object of God's Creation. Although every person has tremendous potential for good, all are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God. Sin separates us from God and causes many problems in our lives.
--
ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
People were originally created in the spiritual image of God and were sinless and holy. Since the fall of mankind into sin, this is no longer true. Now, all people are born sinful and are constantly inclined to sin by nature. We are spiritually lost and dead apart from Jesus Christ. However, through faith in Christ we are new-born and are given the ability to serve God, live for his purposes and enjoy his blessings. -- Genesis 1:27; Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5; Ephesians 2:1-5; Luke 15; Luke 19:10; John 3:1-21; Romans 12:1-2; 2 Corinthians 9:6-15
About Human Beings (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : People are the supreme object of God's creation. Although in Christ every person has tremendous potential for good, all of us are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called “sinâ€. This attitude of disobedience is often called original or inherited sin and is present in every person. It separates people from God and causes many problems in life. Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1, 2
About Salvation (Groeschel)
Salvation is God's free gift to us but we must accept it. We can never make up for our sin by self:improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. When we turn from our self:ruled life and turn to Jesus in faith we are saved. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
· Romans 6:23
· Ephesians 2:8-9
· John 14:6, 1:2
· Titus 3:5
· Galatians 3:26
· Romans 5:1, 10:9-10
--
Salvation (Rock and Roll)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. It comes to us through no effort or decision on our part. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or a life of goodness and kindness. God won salvation for us by loving us, sending his son Jesus Christ to live a perfect life and die a sacrificial death as our substitute. It is through this act of Jesus that salvation became ours. Even faith is not to our credit, for there too God provides his Holy Spirit to create faith in our hearts and minds. Salvation comes to lost mankind by grace alone, through faith alone, in God’s Word alone.
Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6; John 15:5-16, Romans 3:20-26; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:17
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Salvation (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. We can never make up for sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. When we turn from our self-ruled lives and turn to Jesus in faith we are saved.
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ABOUT SALVATION (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. It comes to us through no effort or decision on our part. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or a life of goodness and kindness. God won salvation for us by loving us, sending his son Jesus Christ to live a perfect life and die a sacrificial death as our substitute. It is through this act of Jesus that salvation became ours. Even faith is not to our credit, for there too God provides his Holy Spirit to create faith in our hearts and minds. Salvation comes to lost mankind by grace alone, through faith alone, in God’s word alone. -- Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6; John 15:5-16, Romans 3:20-26; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:17
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About Salvation (Crown of Life, Corona, California) : Salvation is God’s free gift to us received by faith. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment Jesus Christ enters into his heart and life by faith. Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1
About Eternity (Groeschel)
People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life in Heaven. Heaven and hell are real places of eternal existence.
· John 3:16, 14:17
· Romans 6:23, 8:17-18
· Revelation 20:15
· 1 Corinthians 2:7-9
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Eternity (Rock and Roll)
People were created to exist forever. We will exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through the forgiveness and salvation won by Christ. To be eternally separated from God is eternal death or hell. To be eternally united with him in the enjoyment of all his blessings is eternal life or heaven. Heaven and hell are real places where all mankind will exist eternally. In eternity, our bodies and souls are reunited either to suffer the pains of hell or to enjoy the eternal blessings of heaven.
John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Corinthians 2:7-9
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Eternity (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin or eternally with Him through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is Heaven. Heaven and Hell are real places of eternal existence.
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ABOUT THE LIFE TO COME (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
People were created to exist forever. We will exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through the forgiveness and salvation won by Christ. To be eternally separated from God is eternal death or hell. To be eternally united with him in the enjoyment of all his blessings is eternal life or heaven. Heaven and hell are real places where all mankind will exist eternally. In eternity, our bodies and souls are reunited either to suffer the pains of hell or to enjoy the eternal blessings of heaven. -- John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Corinthians 2:7-9
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About Eternity (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are real places of eternal existence. John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Cor. 2:7-9
In addition to Essential Beliefs, we uphold the following (Groeschel)
In Non-Essential Beliefs, we have liberty. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters... Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls... So then each of us will give an account of himself to God... So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.
In All our Beliefs, we show charity. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
· Romans 14:1,4,12,22
· 1 Corinthians 13:2
Catalyst One Day Event:
You Need to Know This
Ski went to the November Stanley/Groeschel event:
Groeschel: My church needs my leadership more than my preaching. Interesting thought.
11:46 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
Groeschel: Pastor's who don't take time off are dull of pride and are poor leaders. - wow.
11:42 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
At the one day Catalyst conference. Good stuff
5:41 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
@ the movie in Granger baby! What a town!
6:52 PM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific in reply to the
Going to Granger to see Andy Stanly & Craig Groeshel speak on leadership.
8:31 AM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific
Ski's plans have been made known to his WELS circuit:
At Appleton Circut Pastors Conference. Going to give an update on The CORE.
7:32 AM Dec 1st, 2008 from twitterrific.
Andy Stanley held the Catalyst One Day Event with Evangelical Covenant Minister Craig Groeschel, November, 2008. Here is what he presented:
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN
At Catalyst One Day, you will:
■Discover the key to creating and sustaining momentum in your organization
■Identify and break through the barriers to momentum
■Overcome personal leadership lids
■Leverage the three triggers which ignite organizational momentum
■Create a culture of continual improvement
■Embrace a new approach to leading organizational change
Vintage Groeschel, decanted at a Willow Creek Training Event
- How many of you have been to a church and it was dead? They didn’t have… IT
- What about going to a place where you felt God and knew they had… IT?
- Sarted in a two car garage students met in closet… Every week students came out of the closet
- They didn’t have the stuff that most people think we need to have a church.
- Every week people came to know God and invited their friends because they didn’t have the stuff they thought they needed… they had what they needed… The Spir-IT!
- It’s something more than just the Spirit - to say the people who don’t have it don’t have the spirit would be insulting
- New York Campus has seen %145 increase in a year - the campus he attends is the only one that has decreased = %3
- What is it? The answer is = don’t know
God makes IT happen. We can’t create it, we can’t reproduce it, we can’t manufacture it, it can’t be taught, but it can be caught, it’s not a model, it’s not emergent, purpose driven, seeker sensitive, it is usually brought by more than one person, but usually one person can kill it - You could say, “IT Happens!” but often it doesn’t
- Good news = if you don’t have it, doesn’t mean you can’t find it
- Bad news = if you have it, you may not keep it
Acts 2:42-47 - - They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
- Four qualities that are most often there when IT is present:
- Laser Focus - most people today said more ministries/events is better. I believe better ministries is better. Jim Collins asked, “what can you be the very best at?” In order to reach people that no one is reaching, you’ll have to do things that no one else is doing. But to do things that no one else is doing, you can’t do what everyone else is doing! Planned abandonment!
- Started examining ministries. Concert ministries was just entertaining other churches people. Don’t do
- Cut all but 5 things. Worship, Small groups, kids ministry, student ministry, missions.
- What are you doing that you need to STOP doing.
- They see opportunities where others see obstacles
- You have everything that you need to do all that God wants you to do.
- You don’t have what you want or what they think they need, you have what you and they need
- What if I said you need to raise 100,000 dollars by Friday? Couldn’t do it. What if I said you have to raise 100,000 for a shot for child otherwise they will die? YEP! Overcome the obstacle!
- He often provides where God doesn’t provide. They had to see something they couldn’t see.
- What is God trying to show you through your greatest limitation?
- They are willing to fail
- Failure is not an option… I agree, “It’s a necessity!”
- Peter couldn’t have done what he did if he hadn’t failed! He failed walking on water, he failed by denying Him, but he succeeded feeding his sheep! 3,000 were saved!
- They failed starting two campuses in Phoenix and ended up having to merge them
- There are two steps to failure.
- The Mule - shook of the dirt, the dirt started piling up at his feet and he started stepping up. SHAKE IT OFF! STEP IT UP!
- What has God called you to do that you are afraid to attempt? When are you going to do it?
- They are led by people who have IT!
- You need to have IT for your ministry to have IT!
- Before long ministry started to kill IT! It became less about building his kingdom and more about building my church. I started preaching messages that would bring people in instead of pleasing to God
- I tried to be Rick Warren - but I’m accidental. I tried to be Joel Osteen - but I’m not that happy!
- When you have IT in you, it starts coming out, and other people with IT will come to you
- We start to try to acquire the things we don’t need to have IT
- God showed me I had became a full time pastor and a part time follower of Christ! DANG!
- I stopped reading other books, and started just reading the Bible. I went to another country and held a baby that would probably die after I left. I started fasting again!
- Let God break your heart again!
- If you read this say a prayer for Mike. A guy Craig has been ministering to for 4 years and still hasn’t accepted Christ!
- If you don’t have it what are you going to do to get it?
- WOW! Go here and buy his message if you are a church leader. It should be up here later.
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So here is Swerve, where Groeschel is writing about borrowing an Andy Stanley sermon. If Swerve sounds familiar - Ski is a follower.
How To Use Someone Else's Material
Recently I used Andy Stanley’s series, “How to Be Rich.” (If you haven’t listened to his messages, I highly recommend that you do.)
Here’s what we did:
•We asked for permission. (For the record, if you use something from LifeChurch.tv Open, you don’t have to ask for permission. Since I didn’t know North Point’s stance, asking permission seemed like the right thing to do.)
•We gave Andy credit publicly and sent people to his church’s website.
•We sent Andy a note with a small gift to say “thank you.” (This obviously isn’t necessary, but I wanted to express my gratitude for his hard work, excellent material, and generosity.)
Parts of the series included almost exclusively his material. Other parts were very much my own. To me, he deserved full credit and honor for God’s work through him.
Several people thanked me for exposing them to North Point’s ministry. I’m thrilled to turn them on to a great spiritual resource.
When have you observed this done well?
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008 at 5:46 am and is filed under communication. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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Since Groeschel has to borrow sermons, we have to wonder if those, like Ski, who borrow Groeschel, are ever getting original material to foist on their audiences.
One person actually objected to this practice. I have some of his material copied below. Please read the entire essay.
When it comes to matters of integrity and decency, the normal course of events it seems, is that the secular culture and the world often condones that which the church condemns. For example, when the world calls adultery an “affair,” justifies divorce without cause, or calls addictions “diseases,” it is then the church that holds its own people accountable to a higher standard of morality and has less toleration for a lack of integrity and morality.
Although we typically find the world celebrating sin and the church confronting it, there is one area where this seems to be reversed: Plagiarism.
When it comes to intellectual property, copying another person’s work, and presenting it as one’s own, the secular world has absolutely no room for toleration. However, the church too often fails to condemn the same behavior, and sometimes even boasts of its use!
Why?
Consider this, can you imagine a member of congress standing up and saying “Last night I was doing some research and 74% of …” when he didn’t, but was reciting another person’s experience? Or what about a CEO standing in front of his board of directors saying “I remember it like it was yesterday,” while every word he speaks is another person’s history? Or what about your child’s 6th grade English teacher grading a book report presentation that was actually memorized from another student’s report?
We all know what happens when people in the secular world behave this way. Last year, an aide to the president resigned. Ironically, a university was recently under fire for copying another school’s policy on, plagiarism. Even Oprah Winfrey has been embarrassed, twice, for endorsing books written by authors who have manufactured history. If this behavior was appropriate, why was Oprah embarrassed by it, and why was it a scandal in the secular press? How can it then be endorsed by those who claim the name of Christ, and be tolerated by churches who practice this deceptive behavior while claiming and even openly bragging about their churches being “authentic” and “genuine?”
So what exactly am I talking about, the reader might ask? Am I talking about a pastor who hears another pastor’s sermon and wants to share it with his congregation, uses the same outline and verse, and disclaims ahead of time what he is doing? While I think doing so should be rare, it isn’t what I am criticizing here. This post is also not concerned specifically with a pastor who reads another’s sermon aloud, and tells his congregation what he is doing. While that should be rare too, it isn’t what I am addressing in this post.
What I am focusing on is the use of the same sermon, the same text, the same examples, and the same experiences, even first person, as if they are one’s own.
Craig Groeschel, who gives his sermons away on the Internet for free says, “It isn’t plagiarizing if you’re given permission,” and also agrees that “just because it isn’t plagiarizing doesn’t always mean you shouldn’t give credit to others.”
While I agree with Pastor Groeschel’s definition, I think it is incomplete, because plagiarism, I believe, also includes the element of deception when a sermon is presented, because the expectation of the congregation, without being notified, is that the material is the speaker’s own work. Especially when examples, experiences, and testimonies are spoken in first person. Just because a pastor has permission to use someone else’s material, this doesn’t mean he is without responsibility to not compromise his integrity to his hearers by presenting the material to them as if it were the work of his own study and preparation.
Craig Groeschel is a member of the Evangelical Covenant Church, closely related in doctrine to Trinity, Deerfield, where Larry Olson studied, and where WELS spends so much money in training that The Sausage Factory is listed twice in their catalogue as a sponsor.
Affiliation
LifeChurch.tv is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC) - a rapidly growing multi-ethnic denomination in the United States and Canada with ministries on five continents of the world. Founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants, the ECC values the Bible as the Word of God, the gift of God's grace and ever-deepening spiritual life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, the importance of extending God's love and compassion to a hurting world, and the strength that comes from unity within diversity.
What makes the Covenant unique from other denominations is the fact that while it strongly affirms the clear teaching of the Word of God, it allows believers the personal freedom to have varying interpretations on theological issues that are not clearly presented in Scripture.
Note the statement of beliefs on the same page, which will occupy a separate post above.
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