The Glory Has Departed


Norma Boeckler, Artist in Residence

Bethany Lutheran Worship on
Ustream

New Year's Eve Hymn service - 7 PM Central
NT Greek Lessons - January, 2017

Saved worship files are at the live worship link.

email: greg.jackson.edlp@gmail.com,
which works as gregjacksonedlp@gmail.com too.

Luther's Sermons, Lenker Series
Book of Concord Selections
Bente's Historical Introductions,
and Martin Chemnitz Press Books

Thursday, December 31, 2009

Jeepers - Pieper's WELS Sermon - On a Poker Website






Then We Will Show
December 31st, 2009 by admin Leave a reply »

I can’t believe what the kids are watching today! I mean, I should be happy. By watching these shows they are learning about statistics, judgment and risk assessment. Is it some hip educational program? Nope. NASCAR? Nope. Poker! You can almost always turn to some station, ESPN2 or the likes, and watch a Poker tournament. If this is sports, then I am physically fit! Golf, which some compare to watching paint dry, looks absolutely riotous compared with Poker. Yet, you have to admit there is some drama (not too much, because the audience gets to see what everybody has in their hands) there as the tension builds when the players have to show their cards.


I’m not saying we should truck on down to Benny’s joint for a weekly poker game or TiVo the next championship poker broadcast so we don’t miss it, but as Christians, I think it is time for us to show our cards. Jesus prayed for the day and I think it has come.


Then We Will Show.


1.Oneness (20-23).


2.Glory (24)


3.Love (25-26).


The words of our text for today are part of Jesus’ “High Priestly Prayer.” He prayed for his disciples. Then he prayed for all who would believe in him. He prayed these words on the Thursday before his death, just hours before Judas betrayed him.


“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me (20-23).”


Did you notice the two times Jesus mentioned the world in these words? “So that the world may believe…to let the world know.” Well, how is the world ever going to believe in Jesus if we don’t show them our cards? How is the world ever going to know Jesus is the Savior if we don’t let this wicked, old world know?


You see, that’s where the battle starts. The church has often been portrayed as a little fortress on a rock, battered by the winds and waves. Church architecture promotes this with its sanctuary and fortress-like walls. The world is out there, to be avoided! Long before security gated neighborhoods became popular, the church was the security gated community. German, Swedish and Norwegian Lutherans had their own churches. The Irish, Polish, German and Italian Catholics had their own churches. And they didn’t get along. I’m not talking about the Lutherans and the Catholics—I’m talking about the Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, Italians, Poles and Irish! We could just as well bring the divisions up to date with the Mexicans and the Chinese, the Korean and the Philippinos. You expect people to be at each other’s throats. You expect people to segregate themselves and show bias, if not outright hostility, towards others.


You’d expect that, because that’s the sinful human nature at work. Where you find God at work, you see just the opposite and that is different. That is unusual. That is noteworthy enough that even the world will sit up and take notice.


It was that way in the early Christian church. Paul brags, “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free (1 Corinthians 12.13).” It didn’t matter whether you knew the Bible or not. The preaching of Jesus Christ converted both the Jew who had memorized God’s Word and the Gentile who didn’t really know what he was supposed to worship. The Holy Spirit through Baptism claimed for God those freemen who belonged to themselves and the slave who belonged to other. It didn’t matter. There were no divisions. No distinctions. And here’s another reason there were no divisions. The Holy Spirit moved them to care for one another. Almost every one of Paul’s letters to the Christian congregations contain something like this—“Ever since I heard about your faith and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you (Ephesians 1.15).” But this unity was not automatic. It was something the early Christians had to always strive for. “I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought (1 Corinthians 1.10).”


This shouldn’t be hard for anyone who has been in a family to understand. There are lots of strains and pulls in a relationship. You’ve got to work on being close to brother and sister.


It’s like a marriage, and let’s take that as an example. Two people. Got their own ideas, their own likes and dislikes, their own hormonal systems just to add a little spice, like putting cornstarch in somebody’s contact lens solution. How does that big stallion and little filly get along? Will he be gone every night, just like he was before he got hitched? Playing cards, drinking, hooting and hollering with his buds over the din of their off-road vehicles? Will she be hitting the clubs with the girls, because it’s free drinks for them after 2 pm, don’t you know, and whining to him for pretty things like she did to her daddy when she was in junior high? I think we’ve just summarized the plot of most day-time and prime-time soap operas! Or will he be thinking about her, trying to tickle her fancy, working to spend time with her, getting her interested in some of the stuff he just can’t put down? Will she be holding him up in esteem, working to understand his way of thinking, trying to house-break, if not civilize, him a little bit and expand his horizons?


The Christian couple who does this, their friends are going to start wondering about them. “Why don’t we ever see Billie and Bonnie fight? Why don’t they ever disagree in public? Did they get a frontal lobotomy when they went to those pre-marital classes at that Lutheran Church?” But the more they watch this Christian couple, the more they get to know them, they’ll realize, “They have a great marriage because they are Christians—we don’t go to church. Maybe that’s why our marriage stinks.”


You get the point. Let’s look at the other thing we will show—glory!


“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world (23).”


Jesus is talking here about heaven. We are going to see Jesus in his heavenly glory. It will be indescribable. The Bible always portrays that vision of God as one of the highest joys of heaven. The joy of seeing fireworks (especially after that 51s slaughter we went to). Or better yet, the joy of a mother seeing her children again, the joy of parents seeing son or daughter on the stage, getting that high school diploma, the joy of a young bride seeing her husband get off the plane from his tour in Iraq. Maybe those things are as close as we can get to the joy we will one day feel in heaven when we see Jesus.


But how in the world is that going to show to unbelievers here and now? Go back to Jesus’ first words. “I have given them the glory that you gave me (22).” We aren’t exactly glowing like Jesus did on the Mount of Transfiguration, shining like lightning, our clothes whiter than any Laundromat could make them—that’s only the actors on those Crest whitening strips commercials! Most of us, if the truth be told, are showing the wear and tear. That’s not the glory Jesus is talking about, the outward glory of those naturally ageless celebrities like Kenny Rogers and Michael Jackson. Here’s the glory Jesus is talking about, that heavenly glory we already have here that unbelievers can spot. “We do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all (2 Corinthians 4.17).” Grace under pressure. Hope in the midst of heartache. Joy in Christ through the tears. That’s the glory Jesus was talking about. One more word from Paul on this, “We all reflect the Lord’s glory and are transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory (2 Corinthians 3.18).”


It’s the glory of a Christian life. It’s the glory of the Christian hope. That’s why even unbelievers want a Christian funeral. Maybe they think they’ll sneak in under the wire. Big, suave, cosmopolitan Ernest Hemmingway put a gun to his head when he found out he had cancer. Little stay-at-home Evelyne Zensen prayed, “Come, Lord Jesus, come quickly.” Do you think people notice? Yup.


They will also notice our love.


“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them (26).”


We’ve talked a lot about love this Easter season, that we love one another. I don’t think a group of Christians can hear that message enough. Back up a step, though. Our love for one another is impossible without the love of God for us. His love comes first and moves us, creates in us, that love for him and love for others. Jesus is talking about how God’s love for us will show in us.


Ever notice how children who are loved well by their parents just beam? The time, the attention, the respect the parents give their children make those kids confident, at ease with others, willing to take some risks and look foolish if it doesn’t turn out, because they know they have someone who always loves them. I think teachers can tell at a glance which kids are loved well, whether they make the honor roll or just escape being declared ineligible because of English class.


Are you well-loved by God? Am I always in my God’s mind? Looking at the Bible, we’d have to say “yeah.” “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3.16).” “Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands (Isaiah 49.15-16).” Your junior high son or daughter ever come home with something written on their arm or the back of their hand that was so important, they couldn’t risk forgetting it before they found some paper? That’s our God! We are always in his mind. There is nothing he wouldn’t do for us, even to the point of Jesus giving up his life for us on the cross. No wonder we sing, “God loves me dearly, grants me salvation, God loves me dearly, loves even me. Therefore I’ll say again, God loves me dearly, God loves me dearly, loves even me.”


Do we show we are loved by God? Again, we’d have to say, “yeah.” Look what we think of him! Good Shepherd. Lord. Savior. Deliverer. Friend of sinners. That’s a whole different picture than the Hindus have of their gods, some of whom are the Destroyer and the Avenger. What do we think of what God has done for us? We don’t say, “Well, I hope I’ve been good enough for God to let me into heaven.” Most Americans say just that, which is why it doesn’t surprise me at all when we find out most Americans don’t go to church to regularly hear that Word of God. Not us. We would say, “I am certain I am going to heaven, because Jesus died for my sins.” That confidence in our Savior’s love for us will show. How about deliverance in earthly crisis? The world expresses doubt in God’s love. “Watch out what you pray for, you just might get it.” We express certainty in God’s power to deliver. “Take it to the Lord in prayer.” Or a preschooler tells her mother after the bank robber took his gun away from her mother’s head and ran out of the bank, “See, Mommy, Jesus protected us.”


People will notice. They really will. “How did you keep it together when your father died?” “Why didn’t you divorce him when he lost his job and you had to let the house go?” God gives strength to his people. It is so natural to us that we don’t think about it all that much, which isn’t a bad thing. I always get into trouble right after I’ve stopped to count all my virtues! But the times will come, as they have already come, and, as before, when that day comes, again


Then We Will Show.


1.Oneness (20-23).


2.Glory (24)


3.Love (25-26).


Kids certainly watch some goofy stuff. Because that’s what people were made for—watching. These eyes can notice the difference between a ripe peach and a peach that needs to be on the tree a few more days. We can notice a healthy color or a face that’s starting to show jaundice. People, including unbelievers, will notice, because they are watching you. Give them a chance to know who Jesus is as we display his grace in our lives.

Rev. Don Pieper is a minister in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. He has devoted his life to

sharing the Gospel of Christ to all of Gods people. For more information about the Green Valley

Evangelical Lutheran Church visit us at
www.gvelc.com or call

702-454-8979 .

Ask for Pastor Don or Pastor Matt.


Your Amnesty International Spokeswoman




Ski posed with Lucinda Williams,
spokeswoman for Amnesty International.
The CORE seems to be an appendage of St. Peter's, Freedom.


---

bill has left a new comment on your post "Your Amnesty International Spokeswoman":

I.J. Reilly

so your son needs a picture of Ski with T.I. (whoever that is) to make up for your inability to properly train your child in the way he should go?

That's too bad, but I suppose it's good you can admit it.

For everyone else here's a little snippet of lyric from "T.I." who Ski apparently got his photo taken with.

This is the musician who I.J. Reilly let's his son listen to.

>>>Hey would ya, stay?
Could ya play wit it with your tongue just a little?
You're such a sexy individual, physical and mental
And if you sentimental
Shouldn't the rules bend a little
Let me start at the top, stop in the middle
Use a popsicle make shiver, giggle when it tickle
I can talk to you dirty if you like that
I finish once, hit a blunt, start right back
I know you told me you a good girl
But shawty you a grown woman not a little girl
You can blame it on the Patrãn or the champagne
But sometimes being bad can be a good thing, ya now<<<

What a good Christian father Reilly is! He allows his kid to listen to vile music and justifies a "pastor" who does the same.

WELS Mentor Under Water




We stopped at Saddleback Church in August and
listened to the Porpoise-Driven Prophet speak.




  • Evangelical pastor Rick Warren speaks at the Islamic Society of North America 46th annual convention in Washington, Saturday July 4, 2009. Evangelical pastor Rick Warren speaks at the Islamic Society of North America 46th annual convention in Washington, Saturday July 4, 2009.  (AP Photo/Luis Magana)
      (AP)  Evangelical pastor Rick Warren is begging parishioners at his Southern California megachurch to cough up $900,000 before Jan. 1 to keep the parish out of the red.

      In an urgent letter posted on the Saddleback Church Web site on Wednesday, Warren says expenses are up because parishioners are out of work and "the bottom dropped out" when year-end donations dropped dramatically.

      He asks parishioners to donate before the new year to keep the Orange County church out of debt, The Orange County Register reports.

      A spokeswoman for Warren said the church does not release financial details, so it's difficult to put the $900,000 shortfall in context.

      Warren delivered the invocation at the inauguration of President Barack Obama and is the author of numerous books, including the best-selling "The Purpose Driven Life."



    • Keep Studying Women's Ordination Until WELS Realizes the Synod Already Has a Bevy of Women Pastors

      Click the image to open in full size.Word of Paula White’s new post seeped out Sunday when Randy White preached his last sermon as senior pastor at the church and resigned. White, 51, said he was stepping aside because of health concerns. He declined to elaborate on his condition, although he said he had been ill and in and out of the hospital for much of the last seven months.
       
      “I have some serious health issues right now,” White said in an interview Friday. “I’ve had six different doctors say that I had to take the stress, the pressure out of my life. So I’ve resigned, and Paula’s taking over.”
       
      Although she had made periodic visits, Paula White, 43, has been away from full-time pastoring at Without Walls for more than two years. She left Tampa following a 2007 divorce from her husband. Since then, she said, she has ministered mostly in New York, Texas and abroad.
       
      About two months ago, White said, she received a call from her ex-husband. He told her about his health situation and asked her to consider returning to lead the congregation, once one of the fastest-growing churches in the nation. White said she prayed, fasted and sought counsel from religious leaders including Bishop T.D. Jakes, the Texas pastor she calls her “spiritual father.”
       
      “This is not a casual decision,” she said. “This has been something that has been well thought through and prayed (about) and saturated. I am looking forward to leading people to the best of my ability.”
       
      Once a powerhouse couple in charismatic Christian circles, the Whites started the ministry that would become Without Walls in a South Tampa storefront. Its present sanctuary seats 4,000, Randy White said. The ministry was hit hard in recent years by the couple’s divorce, the death of  White’s daughter from brain cancer and the hint of scandals, including a federal inquiry into the church’s finances by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.
       
      Last year, Randy White said the church was rebounding, like a phoenix rising from the ashes.
      White said that despite his mixed emotions about resigning, he believes his ex-wife is the perfect fit for the congregation.
       
      “I can hold my head high,” he said. “For 18 years, I served the people and served this community and we weathered a lot of storms through that process. I’m very pleased with how God used me.”
      Meanwhile, Paula White says she is in the discovery and development stage as she prepares to again lead the church.
       
      She plans to live in Tampa and will continue to base her television efforts, Paula White Ministries, out of the city. A highly sought-after evangelist, White says she will curtail her travel and focus on the local church.
       
      “Many people watch the media ministry, and they’ll have a place where they can say Pastor Paula is planted,” she said. “It really is my joy and privilege to serve in this capacity.”
      Sherri Day can be reached at sday@sptimes.com or (813) 661-2440.


      ---

      Women's Ministry Committee Members

      Pastoral Advisors
      Pastor Dave Kehl [GJ - Church and Change]
      Professor Rich Gurgel [GJ - Church and Change]

      Executive Team:
      Marilyn Miller*
      Kathie Wendland
      Linda Buxa
      Carolyn Sachs
      Naomi Schmidt

      Publications Team:
      Linda Buxa*
      Amanda Maresh
      Lisa Bluhm
      Melissa Bock
      Franceska Wendland

      Congregational Ministry Team:
      Sally Valleskey*
      Su Hanson
      Edie Hintz
      Jane Eddinger

      National Conference Team:
      Amanda Bourman*
      Val Johnson
      Laurie Starr
      Vera-Ellen Cook
      Sarah Owens
      Mary Clemons

      Web page Team:
      Naomi Schmidt*

      ---

      Nat'l WELS Women's Leadership Conference
       
      You won't want to miss this awesome event!National WELS Women's
      Leadership Conference
      Leading with a Christ-like attitude
      July 16-18, 2010
      Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, WI

       
      Keynote Address:
      Leading with a Christ-like Attitude: Kathie Wendland
      Developing Personal Bible Study and Devotion Habits: Prof. Richard Gurgel

      Group Presentations
      Serving Where God Puts You: Valerie Johnson
      What is the Women’s Ministry Committee?: Women’s Ministry Committee
      Committing our lives to the Lord - Mary Clemons

      Breakout Sessions (you may attend 3):
      Emerging Leaders of Tomorrow: Cynthia Whaley
      Reaching Women in the Church – Organizing Women’s Ministries: Sally Vallesky
      Christian Leadership in the Secular World: Marilyn Sievert
      Value of Prayer: Vera Ellen Cook
      Defining Your Leadership Style: Dr. Stacy Hoehl
      Working Together to Address Conflict*: Marilyn Miller
      Evaluating the Quality of a Bible Study*: Pres. Paul Wendland
      Sharing Jesus with a Servant’s Heart*: Sarah Owens
      Healthcare and Christian Leadership*: Connie Sauer and Linda Golembiewski
      *offered on Saturday (only)
       
      Music:
      Koiné the Church Band
      United Voices of Praise
       
      Email us to get on our mailing list!

      See highlights from the July 7, 2007
      National Women's Leadership Conference 


      ---



      Our History and the Original Brainstorm


      The WELS Women's Ministry Committee was spawned from an event that took place in June, 2002. The event, a brainstorming retreat, was a pilot project of the WELS Board for Parish Services. The "think tank" objectives were:

      1) to review and reaffirm the Biblical principles of the universal priesthood of all believers and of the role of men and women in the Church,

      2) to brainstorm, clarify, and prioritize ideas regarding vehicles and approaches which will foster, encourage, and enhance the personal and corporate ministry of WELS women and,

      3) to craft the outline for a document that will present our recommendations to the WELS Board for Parish Services for appropriate action.

      Ten WELS women from various walks of life participated in the June task force. Some of these women had full-time ministry positions or had had them at one time. Several women were working professionals, several were retired volunteers. Six WELS pastors representing the Board for Parish Services, Wisconsin Lutheran College, and Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, and Martin Luther College also participated. The Friday, Saturday, and Sunday retreat generated a set of "Action Plans". One of the programs that resulted as a key idea from the brainstorming retreat was a Commission or Committee on Women's Ministry in the WELS.

      It took a year to get the committee going; nevertheless, the think tank weekend essentially generated the committee.  Initially, four women who attended the think tank were appointed to this committee. There were three men on the committee who represented the Board for Parish Services and the seminary. 

      In October 2008, the committee expanded and now includes an Executive Committee, formed with the initial committee plus two new members, and several Sub Committees totaling 23 gifted women from across the nation and the two pastoral advisors.

      Why is this ministry needed?
      At the retreat the need to enhance the ministry of WELS women was expressed. All who attended felt—and also represented many other WELS brothers and sisters who feel—that there are some barriers that we in our church body must overcome in order to enhance this ministry of and to women. The task force participants felt that women in the WELS passionately seek to serve God in the Church in ways that please God and do not violate His Word. The committee's task is to fulfill the need to foster, encourage, and enhance the personal and corporate ministry of WELS women.

      What types of opportunities for service and/or fellowship do are we considering?
      The following are the key ideas that came out of the task force weekend in 2002:

      ▪ Hold a women's conference.
      ▪ Initiate a commission or committee on Women's Ministry (already referred to above, formed in 2003)
      ▪ Foster respect for WELS Christian women (to counter the real and perceived lack thereof)
      ▪ Identify, validate, celebrate women's (and men's) ministry
      ▪ Create a women's magazine.
      ▪ Create an environment that fosters heightened ministry among WELS women
      ▪ Pray
      ▪ Ask the Conference of Presidents and Synodical Council to make women's issues an agenda item
      ▪ Offer all called workers enhanced leadership training
      ▪ Enhance the understanding of the Scripture's principles of the roles of men and women
      ▪ Enhance the understanding of the Scripture's principles of the priesthood of all believers
      ▪ Encourage WELS women to learn as much as possible about the Scriptures
      ▪ Identify and teach spiritual gifts in appropriate ways, starting young.

      As you can see, the suggested action plans are ambitious! There is much to be done. But we on the committee are fully aware that women's ministry in the WELS is not dependent on our committee, by any means. There are many, many opportunities for Christian service for WELS women, and we have invited women in our synod to e-mail our committee with encouragements and successes regarding women helping and serving in their congregations so we can be a clearinghouse for these ideas. Our committee is moving fairly slowly; we want to "get it right," before initiating any major conferences or programs. By this I mean we are studying Scripture together at all of our meetings regarding men and women in ministry-service in the Kingdom. In the meantime there are lots of other programs, Bible studies, retreats, and seminars that are enhancing the ministry of WELS women throughout the United States and beyond!

      Our Communication Tools:
      Some communicating is taking place via the WELS website. In addition to a website for women, we envision a WELS women’s' magazine, regional and/or national conferences, and presentations. All of the women on the committee have done and continue to do retreats and presentations to spiritually serve WELS women. These events can also serve to be opportunities to share the work of the Committee and the work of other WELS women's groups throughout the synod.


      ***


      GJ - Which women were consecrating Holy Communion? WELS/ELS will never tell. That would be informative and edifying. The outlines given above show this is another outgrowth of Church and Change.

      Featured Comments on Recent Posts







      I appreciate the research being done by various readers. Waking up to dozens of comments is fun, for me. Apparently it is agony for those trying to slip all this past the unwary. A layman from St. Peter, Freedom, is unhappy that they are famous on Google for pictures of their pastors and stories about their work. Who posed with the floozies? Who published the photos to Facebook and kept them there?

      Learn from Kudu Don Patterson, the next DP in South Central Texas. When his publicly displayed pictures were posted, he locked down his account pronto.

      ---

      WELS Pastor Tim Glende featured this photo with Katy Perry
      ("Ur So Gay" and "I Kissed a Girl")
      on his main Facebook page. Try finding it now!
      The winsome lass was once a Gospel singer.

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Seattle's Mark Driscoll":

      Imagine you googled WELS and St Peter and up pops Ichabod.

      Can you understand what someone must think when they start reading and seeing pictures of their pastors plastered all over the screen?

      Anger, frustration, denial, defensivness...(sic)

      Give them a break-- encourage them to critque (sic) the sermons (give them tools to test a good sermon), gently explain the problems.

      Love your fellow believer/brother/christian and pray for them.

      ---

      Freddy Finkelstein has left a new comment on your post "Just As I Warned - WELS Has Women's Ordination Wit...":

      Doing a little more browsing in the Resources section of Staff Ministry website, I see two linked resources listed under the "Worship" heading. One of the links is to a "Worship Planning" service: http://www.planningcenteronline.com/

      It's got everything a Lutheran Church needs for the arduous task of planning the Divine Service each week. Who needs a hymnal when you've got all these groovy features:

      Integrated Stage Layouts
      Tracking of Volunteer Availability
      Transposition of Chord Charts
      Visual Media of various kinds, including integration with Worship House Media
      CCM Usage Tracking for CCLI Reporting

      And who do you suppose is using this service? Emblazoned on the front page is the full endorsement of North Point Ministries, Granger Community Church, and Saddleback Church. These guys are all reading from the same notebook.

      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Compare These Ancient Quotations with What Is Happ...":

      If the C&C thespians are anything like the LCMS thespians performing skits and dramas, let me tell you it is like that old advertisement, "I laughed, I cried, it was better than Cats"! LOL

      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      The whole lay ministry program comes across as a new mandate from synod. Have churches been asking for such a program? Will churches be expected to shell out for a lay ministry program whether they want it or not? Is this more mischief from synod personnel who have nothing better to do? I am afraid this is another poorly, thought-through initiative that will get sold with a lot of hype and misleading remarks, including reference to a passage or two. Synod is good at making excuses after having made up their minds.

      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      http://cumsanctospiritu.blogspot.com/2009/12/mlcs-charlie-chaplain.html 

      ---

      Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      From the WELS Women's Ministry Website:

      Our History and the Original Brainstorm
      The WELS Women's Ministry Committee was spawned from an event that took place in June, 2002. The event, a brainstorming retreat, was a pilot project of the WELS Board for Parish Services. The "think tank" objectives were:

      1) to review and reaffirm the Biblical principles of the universal priesthood of all believers and of the role of men and women in the Church,

      2) to brainstorm, clarify, and prioritize ideas regarding vehicles and approaches which will foster, encourage, and enhance the personal and corporate ministry of WELS women and,

      3) to craft the outline for a document that will present our recommendations to the WELS Board for Parish Services for appropriate action.

      Ten WELS women from various walks of life participated in the June task force. Some of these women had full-time ministry positions or had had them at one time. Several women were working professionals, several were retired volunteers. Six WELS pastors representing the Board for Parish Services, Wisconsin Lutheran College, and Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, and Martin Luther College also participated. The Friday, Saturday, and Sunday retreat generated a set of "Action Plans". One of the programs that resulted as a key idea from the brainstorming retreat was a Commission or Committee on Women's Ministry in the WELS.

      It took a year to get the committee going; nevertheless, the think tank weekend essentially generated the committee. Initially, four women who attended the think tank were appointed to this committee. There were three men on the committee who represented the Board for Parish Services and the seminary.

      In October 2008, the committee expanded and now includes an Executive Committee, formed with the initial committee plus two new members, and several Sub Committees totaling 23 gifted women from across the nation and the two pastoral advisors.

      http://www.welswomen.net/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=180006131&sec_id=180002756&nc=1262231422796

      ---

      Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      WELS Directory of Staff Ministers.

      http://staffministry.net/directory.php 

      [GJ - The list linked for Staph Ministry is useless because it includes ordained pastors with MDiv degrees - Bruce Becker - and is outdated. Another grant is needed. Doubtless the WELS directory has an actual list. The linked list seem to be - "Everyone who supports us, one way or another."]


      ---


      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Mentor Under Water":

      Rev. Jackson,
      I just finished reading all your posts for the week and just thank God for you and your work on this blog exposing these WELS pastors who are NOT Lutheran! I am especially sad about the pastor who left St. Peter. I can feel his pain. Pres. Schroeder where are you?? The DP is obviously useless.

      signed,
      a confessional WELS lutheran pastor's wife


      ---


      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      Freddy would like to see the financials for the staff ministry program. I would like to see Larry "O" out -- along with the staff minister program. The WELS convention cut a lot of things that needed cutting. The staff minister program should have been on the top of the list with Parish Assistance second on the list. These are the two programs that most directly influence the WELS ministry and WELS congregations in a negative way. Now with parish assistance on the way out, WELS can now point to Larry "O" and say, "You are the weakest link!"


      ***


      GJ - Someone would like the SP to take care of Fox Valley and the weak DP. Most of the DPs are weak, unless someone questions them. Only then is the wrath of God revealed  in all its terror. Sorry folks, the DPs are elected and re-elected.  They are key to local conditions. If Randy Hunter is rewarded with a vicar and gets a female pastor, that is only because the elected DP allowed it. If Dom Perignon Patterson gets a free vicar for his affluent church, the DP gave that congregation priority.

      I see the problem as circuit/district tolerance, apathy, and ignorance. A few of us are working on the ignorance part. If people remain apathetic, the apostates will more of the same. They have been romping without restraint for 30 years and still occupy many positions of influence. Undoing their harm will take patience, courage, and the efficacious Word.

      The Columbus apostates taught me the Book of Concord - not that they knew the contents of that book. They forced me into study as they tried to justify their love affair with Deformed doctrine.

      The pan-Lutheran sound of shrieking comes from those who are being found out, on the Roman side and the Fuller/Willow Crick side. They are all Enthusiasts, but some prefer one brand over another.


      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Featured Comments on Recent Posts":

      As suggested by a commenter above, I googled: WELS and St Peter. The first Ichabod result was on the 3rd page--result 22.

      ***

      GJ - I will work on getting the rank higher. Thanks.


      Finkelstein Reply to St. Peter's Freedom Member




      Freddy Finkelstein has left a new comment on your post "Seattle's Mark Driscoll":

      Dear Anonymous Member of St. Peter's,

      I read with interest your letter to Dr. Jackson, and took particularly interest in two points that you made. Others picked up on these points, as well. I'll add my thoughts.

      You state: No one at St. Peter or the CORE is criticizing traditional WELS worship or its practices, and our Thursday evening and early Sunday morning service are tradional (sic).

      This is not true. Fundamental to a move away from any given practice is to express a need to do so. For decades, the prevailing concern was the need to be relevant to a changing society, to young people in particular, by catering to their entertainment dependencies. To express such need is to be critical of current practice, as insufficient or "ineffective" by some measure. Until only recently, this was the primary reason given for any move away from traditional practices: “We need to for the survival of the Church” or “We need to for the sake of evangelism.” Questionable even when these claims were made, today, these reasons are manifestly farcical.

      Under the earnest appeals of evangelists trained in the methods of the Church Growth Movement – by far the prevailing methodology taught in American Christianity over the past generation – nearly all of pop-church Evangelicalism adopted these supposedly necessary anthropocentric changes in Worship practice. The case that was made for the necessity of anthropocentrism was theoretical. That case can no longer be made with any credibility. The last five years have seen the manifest implosion of Evangelicalism – as a direct result of CGM theories put into practice, as a result of divorcing practice from doctrine, of becoming doctrinally ambivalent, and of using practice, not as an outworking of doctrine, not as definite public Confession, but as a means of building organizations, the vacuum created by CGM finally shattered Evangelicalism. It has seen dramatically precipitous decline in the past five years. As general proof, ask yourself what happened to the Evangelical voice during the last two election seasons – especially the last season. It was entirely absent. The reason? No money, no leadership, no people. They are leaving in droves. And they are heading two directions: the liturgical church and the emergent church -- and of great surprise to everyone has been the strong representation of young people, searching for depth, among those heading to churches with strong liturgical practice. It is so bad, that last year the Southern Baptists began producing materials for the celebration of Advent and Lent, to keep from losing members to churches that celebrate these seasons of the traditional church calendar. This is notable, given that Baptists are sectarian, not catholic, striving to avoid in their doctrine and practice all elements suggestive of catholicity. They do not have a history of observing the traditional church calendar. The fact is, Barna Research – the primary clearinghouse of Church Growth related “market research” and support materials over the past generation – officially declared Church Growth a statistical failure. These practices do not produce growth as theorized, but quite the opposite, they produce shrinkage. The so-called need to be supposedly relevant to a changing society, by directly importing secular cultural elements and adopting them as church practice, while never standing on firm theoretical ground, is now a demonstrably false need. To repeat, argument can no longer be made with any credibility.

      continued in next post...

      ...continued from previous post

      You go on to state: It just is so curious to me why so many who hold to the tradiotional (sic) methods of worship find the need to criticize other forms of worship.

      The case heard more often these days, isn't a need, but a preference for entertainment-grade worship experiences. Again, this notion celebrates the complete divorce of doctrine from practice, and, significantly, the separation of practice from Confession. It also relies on the false notion that all practice is completely free, with no limits or requirement that any factor other than preference be involved. It is also manifestly anthropocentric – as much as any argument from the standpoint of supposed need is. Proceeding according to the idea that "practice is merely preference," those resistant to change are discredited by being labeled spiritual weaklings, and marginalized either by condescending to slowly changing or by having their concerns ignored altogether.

      But when one agrees that doctrine is not separate from practice, but that practice descends from doctrine, and, in particular, when it is understood that practice is a critical element of making a common Confession, it is clear that there are many important factors involved, and that preference is, in reality, only a minor factor. The fact is, what we, as WELS Lutherans, confess in common is not generically the Bible, but something specific that we say the Bible says. We make this Confession not because it is a membership requirement that we agree to with the same unceremonious regard we have for signing, say, a non-compete agreement with our employer, but as a matter of Christian conscience. It is a specific Confession that sharply differentiates us from other confessions, such as Roman, Anglican, Reformed, Arminian, etc. Carrying with it the force of conscience, we stand on our Confession with resolute certainty, even as Luther and others, in the face of death. It is not an insignificant thing, but a weighty matter to make a Public Confession – it is tied directly to our identity as individuals, and integral to our entire Worldview.

      What's more, we all make this same Confession, together. No Lutheran congregation has the freedom to indicate, either by its words or by its practice, that it confesses anything other than our own confession. To do so makes us all a participant in the false confession of the heterodox, and violates the conscience of every Christian in our Synod. This means that, for the sake of unity (for its continued strength among us, and its credibility before the world), we voluntarily and unanimously avoid practices and phrases that would blur the sharp doctrinal divisions that exist between us and the heterodox. For example, while the practice of immersion is just as efficacious as sprinkling or affusion, for the sake of Confession in the face of the false teachings of immersionists, we forcefully reject this practice as forbidden by God – as we are enjoined in the Formula of Concord, Article X. Baptism isn't the only practice impacted by Public Confession, and for the sake of doctrinal and Confessional unity, we not only have the right, but the obligation to examine one another's practices. We are not free to engage in heterodox practices, as if there is no confessional division between us and the heterodox.

      Honestly, this whole issue was dealt with, in depth, over on Bailing Water last year. A good summary of that extended discussion was compiled by a layman, and published on Ichabod and on Bailing Water earlier this year, An Open Letter to WELS - From a Layman. I would recommend that you read every word and follow every link of that letter -- it will explain much regarding these questions that you have.

      Freddy Finkelstein

      Wednesday, December 30, 2009

      Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Supporting Women Pastors




      PB K. Jefferts-Schori and the first woman bishop in Cuba.
      WELS Staff Ministry


      Freddy Finkelstein has left a new comment on your post "Just As I Warned - WELS Has Women's Ordination Wit...":

      This document makes very clear to me why it is that elements of WELS leadership had been pressing for “women's ordination” and advocating a pastoral role for women, by having them commune other women. It's just too bad for them that so many WELS layman and pastors are such spiritual weaklings that, out of "brotherly concern for their weakness," a moratorium was placed on female celebrants in WELS. I frankly suspect that this has little actually to do (primarily) with a desire to change doctrine, but rather with organization building and ambivalence toward doctrine and practice. If someone wants to build an empire underneath them, and if the word “minister” can be construed as a “slippery term” (much like the terms “teacher” and “authority” have become), then why not profit from the lack of clarity? If there is anything we know, it's that now-defunct CGM theories were primarily about developing programs – buzz-phrases like “evangelism” and “kingdom blah blah whatever” sitting in secondary position, as the beneficiaries of “effective programs.” The document produced in this blog entry bears the unmistakable fingerprints of the Church Growth Movement, beginning with the pietistic foundation of "lay ministers," with whom I have sufficient experience, both within and outside WELS, to have no confidence in, whatsoever.

      Frankly, I'd like to see the financials of the staff ministry program, and the results of the market research they have no-doubt conducted. How many students do they need in order to stay in the black? What is the male-to-female ratio of this program? What does their market research tell them about attracting new students? Are they at the statistical limit for attracting male students? If they need to attract more students to stay solvent, or to grow the program, is attracting female students the only realistic way to do so? Are there other reasons for needing to attract more females to this program – statutory or accreditation oriented reasons, perhaps? What would encourage more females to enter the program? The hope of a career as a Minister of the Word – with the same IRS advantages as males? If these are the considerations being made, are they relevant to the solvency of the staff ministry program only, or of MLC itself?

      This whole lay ministry program stinks to high heaven. I'm suspicious.

      Freddy Finkelstein

      ***

      GJ - There is a list of all staff ministers somewhere, but I did not find it at the wels.net website.


      Compare These Ancient Quotations with What Is Happening Now at The CORE, Rock and Roll, Latte, Victory Movie Theater, Church and Chicanery






      Rick Miller, thou has conquered!
      Actual sign at The CORE, not a PhotoShop.


      Real, Relational, Relevant
      "Would you be interested in a church that offers...Practical and Relevant Messages? Contemporary Music and Drama? Friendly People Who Are Interested in You? A Non-threatening Environment Where You Can Investigate a Relationship with God? Maybe Crossroads Is For You!...Targeted for September, '92, Sunday morning 'seeker' service designed to introduce Christianity in the most practical relevant way possible!" Crossroads Community Church, Pastor Rick Miller (WELS), Crossroads Community.

      "Church music doesn't have to sound 'different.' It can sound just like the music people listen to every day. At Crossroads you won't find a pipe organ, but you will find great music appealing to a variety of tastes...Who says church has to be boring? In many of our services the Crossroads Drama Team makes us laugh or cry, and take a hard look at ourselves." Crossroads Community Church, Pastor Rick Miller (WELS), Crossroads Community .

      "Crossroads Community Church. Comfortable Contemporary Creative Services Sunday Evenings 6 pm South Lyon High School Pontiac Trail and Eleven Mile (313) 591-4087 Newspaper ad Crossroads, Pastor Rick Miller (WELS).

      Crossroads Community "PREPARING FOR HOLY COMMUNION. BECAUSE...I am very sorry for my sins...I trust only in Jesus as my Savior from sin...I receive from the Sacrament the forgiveness and strength I need to amend my life...I believe the words of my Lord that His Body and Blood are REALLY PRESENT in Holy Communion. Therefore I announce my desire to partake of the Lord's Supper:... Crossroads Community Church, Pastor Rick Miller (WELS), Crossroads Community.

      Willow Creek – Just Like St. Mark, Depere and Wisconsin Lutheran Chapel.

      "You may not have noticed, but Crossroads has changed its name!...Why the change [from Crossroads Christian Church]? First, we were told that the original name implied a denominational affiliation. Also, we believe that the 'community' label identifies us more closely with the philosophy of ministry at Willow Creek Community Church. We want to begin referring to ourselves more and more as a 'community' of fully devoted followers of Jesus."
      Pastor Rick Miller, (WELS), Crossroads Community Church, News and Information for January, 1992.
      [Willow Creek is a denomination and St. Mark Depere belongs to it.]

      Doctrinal Pussycat Mueller

      "Since several brothers have asked about the status of Rick Miller, I provide the following information. Rick has asked for a release from his call at Huron Valley Lutheran High School in order to serve a group of people as their pastor and to help organize them as an independent Christian congregation. The group is composed of some former members of St. Peter Lutheran Church in Plymouth, of some former members of St. Paul Lutheran Church in Livonia, and some people who have left LC-MS churches. The group has stated that it has a different philosophy and style of ministry, which includes drama, contemporary music and a thematic form of worship and liturgy, which allows for greater personal participation by its female members. The group has also stated that it would like to retain fellowship relations with our Wisconsin Synod."
      District President Robert Mueller, President's Report to the Conferences, Fall, 1991 Note: the congregation has women lectors p. 2f. [GJ - Now that's new! - not.]

      "As an independent group it does not plan to use the name 'Lutheran' in its title. It will be known as The Crossroads Christian Church...For the present, Rick Miller is still a pastoral member of the WELS...At that time [January 31, 1992, submission of a constitution] the fellowship question will be determined on the basis of the group's doctrinal statements and practices."
      District President Robert Mueller, President's Report to the Conferences, Fall, 1991 p. 3. [GJ - Not using Lutheran? That's new - not.]


      "CROSSROADS CALLS SECOND PASTOR. On January 5th, Crossroads extended a call to Kelly Voigt, currently pastor of a mission church in Tallahassee...Kelly would be responsible for heading up outreach activities and the preparation needed before Seeker Services can begin. He would be the speaker for the Seeker Services, while Pastor Rick would continue delivering the New Community messages."
      Pastor Rick Miller, (WELS), Crossroads Community Church, News and Information for February, 1992, Seeker Services are endorsed by Pastor Robert Hartman, Pastor Jim Huebner, in the evangelism seminar video tape. p. 1. See Indianapolis Star story on Dan Kelm. [GJ - What ever happened to Huebner? Oh - he is First VP of WELS.]

      "PHILOSOPHY OF MINISTRY AT CROSSROADS...Conduct seeker services... Provide small group leadership. At Crossroads, as people come to know Jesus they are encouraged to participate in groups of 8 to 10 people who meet weekly for 2 years of fellowship, holding one another accountable, discipleship training, encouragement and support. 1 Thess. 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up." Pastor Rick Miller, (WELS), Crossroads Community Church, 1 Thessalonians 5:11.

      "Several churches have found a creative and effective way of maintaining an active membership from year to year. Basically, they ask their members--each year--if they wish to continue as members for the coming year...Good Shepherd Lutheran Church (Irvine, CA) also has a 'Covenant of Membership' card. On their 'Covenant Sunday' Pastor Jim Hale encourages persons to come forward in the service and place their card on the altar." Win Arn, Win Arn Growth Report, copyright, 1986 709 E Colorado Blvd Pasadena, CA 91101 818-449-4400 Same plan at Crossroads Community Church.




      Seattle's Mark Driscoll





      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mark and Avoid Jeske Admires Mark and Avoid Drisco...":

      "Nowhere is the connection between Driscoll’s hypermasculinity and his Calvinist theology clearer than in his refusal to tolerate opposition at Mars Hill...Mars Hill is not 16th-century Geneva, but Driscoll has little patience for dissent. In 2007, two elders protested a plan to reorganize the church that, according to critics, consolidated power in the hands of Driscoll and his closest aides. Driscoll told the congregation that he asked advice on how to handle stubborn subordinates from a 'mixed martial artist and Ultimate Fighter, good guy' who attends Mars Hill. 'His answer was brilliant,' Driscoll reported. 'He said, ‘'I break their nose.'’ When one of the renegade elders refused to repent, the church leadership ordered members to shun him. One member complained on an online message board and instantly found his membership privileges suspended. 'They are sinning through questioning,' Driscoll preached." -- New York Times, "Who Would Jesus Smackdown?", 01/06/2009

      More:

      http://www.youtube.com/user/ReallySad1


      ---


      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Time To Tell the Truth at St. Peter, Freedom, Wisc...":

      As a member of St. Peter, I have every confidence in the ministries of Pastor Glende and Pastor Ski. I would go to war for them, and trust that they have hearts for God and for sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and him crucified. I have been a faithful, active member there for many years, and would hold their ministry up to any kind of examination. If there is false doctrine there, let us examine it - all we get here is guilt by association, smears, leering comments and condemnation.

      To see the scurilous (sic) things posted on your site, to see that you allow people to say things like "I heard..." and have very little attribution, and try to condemn men who are trying to lead the lost to eternal life, is shameful, but then you need to decide how you want to conduct yourself.

      If you want to continue in believing that salvation and eternal life can only be achieved by worship circa 1970 or before, and that all things God breathed can only be found on pages 5 or 15 of the Lutheran Hymnal, so be it.

      Pastor Christenson left because he wanted to become the lead pastor, and also because he was not comfortable in a setting with a 1,000 members as St. Peter currently is. You may want to cast aspersions and try to make more of this then there is, if so, have at it. The truth does not live on this website, so you probably won't want to start now.

      Maybe if you tried to enrich and engage the loveliness of the saving message of the gospel, instead of acting like wannabe Pharisees, you might have some positive effect on the kingdom. But that is not who you are - you will probably not even have the courage or intellectual guts to allow a comment like this here for others to consider.

      No one at St. Peter or the CORE is criticizing traditional WELS worship or its practices, and our Thursday evening and early Sunday morning service are tradional (sic). It just is so curious to me why so many who hold to the tradiotional (sic) methods of worship find the need to criticize other forms of worship.




      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Seattle's Mark Driscoll":

      "No one at St. Peter or the CORE is criticizing traditional WELS worship or its practices"

      Baloney! Every church growther I have heard from says that the traditional worshiping/practicing Lutherans are the reason for the demise of the WELS and are getting in the way of saving souls. Open your eyes! None of this happens in a vacuum.

      ---

      Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Seattle's Mark Driscoll":

      "No one at St. Peter or the CORE is criticizing traditional WELS worship or its practices"

      Baloney! Every church growther I have heard from says that the traditional worshiping/practicing Lutherans are the reason for the demise of the WELS and are getting in the way of saving souls. Open your eyes! None of this happens in a vacuum.

      ---

      GJ - A constant in all Church Growth/Emerging Church presentations is the mockery of real worship as boring, ineffective, and standing in the way of real progress. I will dust off my Rick Miller (WELS) quotes to show how hoary with age those claims are.

      Beside - Ski, Glende, Katie, Buske, Parlow, Patterson, and many others have a need to renew their Enthusiasm constantly through Schwaermer training. How telling it is that Ski flew down to Atlanta for Babtist Andy Stanley, only to run into Dan Deutschlander, who thought Ski was going to hear him speak. That gives new meaning to "mark and avoid" in WELS. Mark and avoid a Lutheran while posing giddily with a Babtist.

      Glende got his initial training or influence from Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, who was kicked out of the LCMS ministry and hired to be a Church Growth consultant for WELS in Columbus, Ohio. Stolzenburg landed at St. Paul, German Village, where Glende's parents worked.


      The Roman Mary Is Scary






      Virgin of Carmel Saving Souls in Purgatory, 
      Circle of Diego Quispe Tito, Peruvian (Cuzco), 1611-1681.


      L P has left a new comment on your post "Ding-a-Ling: Mass Bells Are Breaking Up That Old G...":

      Speaking of RC liturgy...

      Try doing this...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64

      I am sure some will get a *high* on this one.

      LPC

      ***

      GJ - The tape shows the elaborate choreography of the the Roman mass. Bishop Fulton Sheen was good at marketing. Unfortunately for him, he had a spat with Cardinal Spellman, described by one prelate as "that fat little liar." Sheen lost the battle and the war.

      The Church of Rome hides its four main doctrinal errors well:
      1. Purgatory is a mini-Hell for the semi-saved. The faithful will be tortured there for thousands of years before they reach heaven. Good works reduce some time in Purgatory, but not much.
      2. The Virgin Mary visits Purgatory to comfort the poor souls there. She is the Co-Redeemer because she offered up her Son, like a priest saying mass, when He died on the cross. She is the Mediatrix of all grace. Mary was born immaculate and never committed an actual sin. She was assumed into heaven, although it is not resolved whether that was after death or before death. The jury is still out.
      3. Christians are justified by faith, but only if good works are added as a requirement. Because the Atonement is not sufficient and human works are not adequate, a few thousand years in Purgatory settle the accounts past due.
      4. The pope is infallible whenever he declares doctrine, and so are all priests who teach in harmony with him. This doctrine was revealed by the infallible Pope Piux IX, who also declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

      Lutherans should read Roman Catholic works from time to time, to stay alert about the actual doctrines of the Church of Rome. Lutherans should also observe Roman worship every so often, so descriptions are accurate. Out of respect, as F. Pieper said, a Lutheran may attend Roman Catholic services without worshiping with them. For example, when a Roman Catholic friend or neighbor dies, it is respectful to attend the funeral.

      Lutherans should not direct others to the "bang on right" words of the pope, because the best statements of the Antichrist only mask the demonic doctrines of Rome. Likewise, Eastern Orthodoxy only offers a me-too for Rome, in full fellowship with Roman Catholicism but still judged a "defective church" by the pope.

      The priest down the street may be pro-abortion, advocating women's ordination, and celebrating his current life-partnership with Father Bruce, but he is still bound by Rome's doctrine. Because Rome will not admit to any error, Roman Catholicism remains a Medieval, Mary-centered, Purgatory teaching church that demands works for forgiveness, holding back that forgiveness in the name of human reason.

      Catholic Archbishop Weakland proved that
      a homosexual church leader
      could still be a featured speaker
      at Wisconsin Lutheran Willow Creek College.


      ---

      L P has left a new comment on your post "The Roman Mary Is Scary":

      I was an ex-RC kid, catechized in the Baltimore Catechism. I was taught that Mary is more friendly to sinners than Jesus. You cannot run to Jesus because he is angry at your sin so run to Mary because Jesus cannot deny his Mother, he is a good son etc. So appeal to Mary.

      I have not read much RC theology lately but I do encounter RC apologists in the internet, who through their efforts, tell me the same old same old stance of Romanism.

      Here is where Romanism is so insidious:

      They start with correct premises, but they give you the wrong conclusion, a conclusion based on their agenda. For example, they say to you 1+1=2, correct, and so you agree. Then they say, ok, therefore 2 +2 = 5. We the magisterium are telling you that 2+2= 5 based on the fact that 1+1 = 2.

      It is not without reason that the BoC charges Rome of sophistry. So I agree with Pr Greg... we can read what they are writing for the sake of informing us, but we should not use what they wrote to influence us, because that sophistry is still present in that system.

      Why would you like to constantly pick out the bones and take the meat from such sources? I do not see the motivation for such a project. Why would you say - hey the anti-Christ is helpful here, he said some good things here, we should take heed? This does not make sense to me.

      LPC

      ***

      GJ - This does make sense to me, LPC. I see a large circle of LCMS pastors who are the new Oxford Movement. Some are so far gone that they have left for Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy. Others have their little Rome in the LCMS parish, so they keep their pension and wives.

      Some pastors never get over their professors. As one DP remarked, they keep giving sermons for their seminary professors, not for their members. I know two of the Ft. Wayne professors fervently promote the Roman/EO approach. The results are obvious in the exits from the Lutheran Church, at graduation or soon after. Apparently St. Louis is similar, but I do not know which professors are the papal Manchurian Candidates.

      The parallel with Church Growth is clear enough. When the trend is identified and impossible to deny, the culprits scream like little girls about being slandered, meanwhile engaging in the worst kind of slander. One of the LCMS "confessionals" just did that in a public forum. When a man has only three years parish experience, no training beyond seminary, and no bibliography, he ought to let his silence allow him to appear wise.


      Reconciliation - Rome's Way




      ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson
      Nodding my staff like yeah, waving my alb like yeah.


      SceleratissimusLutheranus has left a new comment on your post "Just As I Warned - WELS Has Women's Ordination Wit...":

      Dr. Jackson, I remember you saying in one of your video lessons that all the leaders from the Lutheran church bodies, with their life partners, would be kissing the Pope and telling him how sorry they are for the Reformation in 2017.

      I don't think your assessment was too far off the mark. Doesn't women's ordination usually follow the homosexuals getting their "rights" as well?

      ***

      GJ -  Women's ordination is not the main problem: it is a symptom of the real problem. When the authority and efficacy of the Word are abandoned, everyone knows - anything goes. In the last 50 years, homosexual and feminist activists have worked together for their parallel goals in the church. Apostasy benefits many groups at once as the visible church fractures. Clever leaders simply side-step the main issue. Every symptom reflects the foundation of the new thinking - the old heresies.

      Unionism promotes doctrinal indifference and doctrinal indifference supports unionism. When all the Lutheran synods looked to Fuller and Willow Creek as their ministry model, every foul error was bound to follow.

      The Enthusiasm of Pietism (separating the Holy Spirit from the Word) has expressed itself in two ways among the American Lutherans. One is the Church Growth Movement. The other is Romanism or its clone, Eastern Orthodoxy. Smells-and-bells Lutherans fall all over each other in praising Roman Catholic leaders and aping  high mass, which Chemnitz called "either a farce or a tragedy." The incensed Lutheran priests-in-waiting think they have the solution to Church Growthism, but they are just another expression of the same disease - Enthusiasm.


      Just As I Warned - WELS Has Women's Ordination Without Bothering To Ordain





      NWC's Jungkuntz: My boys have done me proud -
      Church Growth, women's ordination, unionism.
      I did it. It took some time, but I did it.

      The following is the complete document from the staff ministry website for WELS, headed by Larry Olson, (DMin, Fuller Seminary). The first part is a summary of some interesting items. The second part is the complete document.

      ---

      Preview:

      www.staffministry.org/resources.php?file=142

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers
      Page 4
      The new staff minister will be made aware of this program during his/her studies at MLC and how it is intended to work. The new staff minister will be encouraged to make full use of this program and will be given mentor contact information before moving to the congregation or organization he/she will be serving. Though this program is intended to be a helpful resource in becoming established in ministry, it is not comprehensive. The new staff minister is encouraged to seek other sources of guidance and wisdom.
      1Peter 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe
      yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

      Page 13
      3. Communion - who distributes? (Assisting with communion [sacerdotal function] may be necessary to maintain Minister of the Gospel status with IRS in the US) [see IRS code below.  WELS women staff ministers need to officiate during distribution of Sacraments and conduct services in order to legally qualify:
      In contrast, the Tax Court held in Lawrence v. Commissioner, 50 T.C. 494, 499-500 (1968), that a "minister of education" in a Baptist church was not a "duly ordained, commissioned, or licensed" minister for purposes of IRC §107. The petitioner held a Master's Degree in Religious Education from a Baptist Theological Seminary, but was not ordained. Although his church "commissioned" him after he assumed the position, the court interpreted the commissioning to be for tax purposes, as it did not result in any change in duties. Most significant, however, was the court's analysis of petitioner's duties or rather, the duties he did not perform. He did not officiate at Baptisms or the Lord's Supper, two Ordinances that closely resembled sacraments, nor did he preside over or preach at worship services. The court concluded that the evidence did not establish that the prescribed duties of a minister of education were equivalent to the duties of a Baptist minister.]

      Page 15
      E) Your approach to your ministry
      1) Our Lord has called you to be a leader. What does this mean? Some realities.
      a) You are an important spiritual leader in the congregation.
      b) You will be expected to become a primary leader in the congregation. The
      mentoring process will help you learn that roll and carry it out well.

      Page 16
      2) An important aspect of being a spiritual leader at your congregation means focusing on
      your congregation's mission. Be ready to share that mission which includes the following
      components:
      a) The goal is making disciples of children and parents.

      IRS
      http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=210018,00.html
      Treas. Reg. § 1.1402(c)-5(b)(2) provides that service performed by a minister in the exercise of the ministry includes:
      1. Ministration of sacerdotal functions;
      2. Conduct of religious worship;
      3. Control, conduct, and maintenance of religious organizations (including the religious boards, societies, and other integral agencies of such organizations), under the authority of a religious body constituting a church or denomination. 


      ---





      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers
      Resource 1 - Handbook


      1.0 Introduction
      For some time, members of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) Conference of
      Staff Ministers (the Conference) have noted the difficulty new staff ministers have in the early
      years of ministry. These challenges are the result of many factors, including the relative newness
      of this form of ministry compared to pastors and teachers, the unfamiliarity of congregations and
      other organizations with the use of this form of ministry, the new staff ministers’ inexperience,
      and the like.

      It is the desire of the Conference to enhance the work of Christ’s kingdom by assisting new staff
      ministers to more effectively use their gifts and abilities in their new roles in a timely manner.
      The program described in this document is the first step, Lord willing, in developing a permanent
      mentoring program to address this issue.

      1.1 Purpose
      The purpose of the pilot mentoring program is to implement and evaluate a trial program that
      will assist and train new staff ministers. The intent is that the program will be evaluated and
      modified as necessary during and after the trial period and made a permanent function of the
      Conference, provided the program has demonstrated value and benefit to new staff ministers.

      1.2 Objectives
      The mentoring process will help the new staff minister:

      .
      Grow spiritually in his or her commitment to our Lord and to the Lord’s ministry.

      .
      Prepare for and carry out his or her first two years as a staff minister.

      .
      Focus on achieving the congregation’s or organization’s mission in each aspect of his or
      her ministry to which the staff minister has been called or assigned.

      .
      Address personal issues, e.g., balancing family and his or her call, personal finances,
      personal/family devotions.

      .
      Grow in his or her leadership skills.

      .
      Develop appropriate relationships with (as applicable) congregational or organizational
      leaders and members, pastor, teachers, circuit pastor, and other synodical groups.

      .
      Benefit from the talents, skills, and interests (as applicable) of congregational or
      organizational leaders and members, pastor, teachers, and circuit pastor.


      .
      Grow in his or her organizational skills.

      .
      Grow in his or her planning skills.

       Page 1




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      1.3 Mentoring Process
      The mentoring process covers the first two years of the new staff minister’s service. The process
      includes the following activities by the mentor:
      .
      Onsite visits (preferred, otherwise teleconferences) involving the new staff minister, the
      pastor or supervisor, and available congregation or organization leaders.
      .
      Observation of the new staff minister in the performance of some duties, if feasible.
      .
      In-depth meetings or teleconferences with the new staff minister.
      .
      Individual meetings or teleconferences with the pastor or supervisor and, if possible,
      congregation or organizational leaders.
      .
      Follow-up phone calls or conferences as needed.
      .
      Reports to the congregation or organization.
      .
      Report to the Conference for evaluation of the program.

       Page 2




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      2.0 Roles and responsibilities
      The two primary roles are those of the mentor and the new staff minister. Other involved parties
      include the congregation or organization and its leaders, the pastor, the circuit pastor, the Board
      for Parish Services, and the Conference of Presidents. The roles of the other parties will vary
      from minor (awareness) to significant (day-to-day interaction with the new staff minister). The
      mentor and new staff minister roles are described further and interaction with these other parties
      is noted.

      2.1 Mentor
      The role of mentor is key to the success and value of the program. Careful consideration of the
      individuals placed into this role and their activities is warranted. For the pilot program, qualified
      (as defined below) members of the Conference may volunteer to be mentors. Assignment will be
      by mutual consent as described in Section 3.1.

      2.1.1 Qualifications
      The general qualifications for mentor are:
      .
      A mentor will be a synod-certified staff minister, either active or retired, that has served
      or is serving a WELS congregation or parachurch organization in WELS fellowship.
      .
      A mentor will have demonstrated a clear understanding of the Scriptures and competence

      for Gospel ministry.
      .
      A mentor will have an understanding of today’s WELS parish ministry
      .
      A mentor will have good listening and questioning skills.
      .
      A mentor will have experience and ability to organize and follow a schedule of contacts

      and establish a mentoring relationship.

      .
      A mentor will have a clear understanding of the mission of the church and the need to
      communicate as needed with all individuals involved (i.e. congregation or organization
      leaders, pastor, circuit pastor, district president).

      .
      A mentor will have demonstrated skills in personal relations with adults, leadership,
      communication, writing, and problem-solving.

      In addition to these general qualifications, mentor candidates under consideration for designation
      to a specific new staff minister will have the following specific qualifications:

      .
      A mentor will be designated in accordance with biblical teaching of men and women’s
      roles. i.e. a male mentor a for male new staff minister.
      .
      To the extent that it is possible, a mentor’s experience will have significant overlap with
      the duties outlined in new staff minister’s call (music, administration, evangelism, etc.)

      2.2 New staff minister
      The role of new staff minister is envisioned primarily as traditional aged Martin Luther College
      (MLC) graduates receiving a call into ministry via the assignment committee. However, the
      program is available to certification students that are serving a call or graduates, if desired, by
      consent of the officers of the Conference and the staff ministry faculty at MLC.

       Page 3




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      The new staff minister will be made aware of this program during his/her studies at MLC and
      how it is intended to work. The new staff minister will be encouraged to make full use of this
      program and will be given mentor contact information before moving to the congregation or
      organization he/she will be serving. Though this program is intended to be a helpful resource in
      becoming established in ministry, it is not comprehensive. The new staff minister is encouraged
      to seek other sources of guidance and wisdom.

      The most important source of guidance and wisdom is God’s Word. The new staff minister will
      want to be in the word regularly and often to receive the gospel motivation and direction for
      putting his or her training into practice. The new staff minister will seek to display proper
      respect and honor the mentor as God’s representative for his or her good.

      1Peter 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe
      yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but gives grace
      to the humble.”

      2.3 Other roles
      Other individuals and groups will significantly influence the development of the new staff
      minister. The interaction between the new staff minister and the pastor, supervisor,
      congregational leaders, or organizational leaders must be taken into account during the
      mentoring process.

      2.3.1 Pastor or supervisor
      The pastor or supervisor will likely be the individual who has the closest working relationship
      with the new staff minister. Although this person will likely have day-to-day oversight of the
      new staff minister, the mentor will counsel the new staff minister to follow the encouragement of
      Col. 3:23-24:

      23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since
      you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ
      you are serving.

      In so doing, the new staff minister will view his or her pastor or supervisor as an overseer that is
      God’s representative. Conversely, the mentor will encourage the pastor or supervisor as the one
      responsible for the work environment to follow the encouragement of 1 Peter 3:8:

      Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be
      compassionate and humble.

      The mentor will work with the pastor or supervisor to evaluate the job description and
      expectations for the new staff minister. The goal will be to ensure that the expectations are
      reasonable and appropriate. The mentor will encourage the pastor or supervisor to be mindful of
      the specific spiritual gifts of the new staff minister in the assignment of duties. The mentor will
      also encourage the pastor or supervisor to respect the training, ideas, and alternative perspective
      of the new staff minister as one whom the Lord has called to this ministry.

       Page 4




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      If, during the mentoring process, the mentor becomes aware of difficulties or problems in the
      relationship between the new staff minister and the pastor or supervisor, the mentor will
      encourage the new staff minister to follow the appropriate procedure for such situations, namely
      according to Matthew 18 and, if necessary, with the assistance of the circuit pastor.

      2.3.2 Congregational or organizational leaders
      Although the pastor or supervisor may have day to day responsibility for overseeing the new
      staff minister, the congregation or organization is the employer to whom the staff minister must
      ultimately answer. The role of the leaders of the congregation or organization will be to provide
      overall direction to the ministry of the new staff minister and differentiate between
      responsibilities of the new staff minister and the other called workers, faculty, or staff. The
      mentor will work with these leaders to help them understand the training and capabilities of the
      new staff minister. As with the pastor, the mentor will help the leaders understand the new staff
      minister’s spiritual gifts so that the division of ministry tasks is appropriate.

      The leaders of the congregation or organization will also bear the responsibility to support their
      new staff minister both spiritually and financially. For situations in which a staff minister
      receives a call rather than being hired, the mentor will help the leaders understand, if necessary,
      the scope and divine nature of the new staff minister’s call. The mentor will work with the
      leaders to make sure they clearly communicate their provisions for and expectations of the new
      staff minister, including but not limited to salary, vacation time, health insurance, housing
      allowance, level of involvement in church or organizational activities outside the scope of the
      new staff minister’s responsibilities, and provision for conference attendance.

      2.3.3 Other parties
      The involvement of other parties is described in Section 2.4 Responsibilities. The other parties
      function in oversight roles and include the Conference of Presidents, the Board for Parish
      Services, and the circuit pastor, where applicable.

      2.4 Mentoring Program Responsibilities
      2.4.1 The Conference of Presidents (COP)
      1.
      Have knowledge of the program and work with the Conference, Martin Luther College, and the
      calling congregations to promote and enhance the mentoring process
      2.
      Make congregations aware of the new staff minister candidates and encourage them to consider
      calling a candidate with the appropriate talents, abilities, and spiritual gifts.
      3.
      Strongly encourage a congregation that receives a Martin Luther College assignee as a new staff
      minister to participate in this mentoring process
      2.4.2 The Board for Parish Services and BPS administrator
      1.
      Advise the Conference regarding the selection of mentors and implementation of the mentoring
      process through the administrator
      2.
      Cooperate with the Conference, the COP, Martin Luther College, and the calling congregations to
      promote and enhance the mentoring process
      Page 5




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      2.4.3 The congregation or organization
      1.
      Cooperate with the Conference, the COP, the CPS, and the mentor in the operation and improvement of
      the mentoring process
      2.
      Accept the fact that the new staff minister is a trained minister but not likely an experienced
      minister.
      3.
      Be committed to helping the new staff minister receive training and gain experience in the areas
      to which he or she has been called or hired.
      4.
      Become involved in the mentoring process for two years
      5.
      Assume the expenses incurred by the mentor in the mentoring process
      2.4.4 The congregation or organization personnel (pastor, oversight board,
      and coworkers)
      1.
      Accept the fact that the new staff minister is a trained minister but not likely an experienced
      minister.
      2.
      Help the new staff minister as he receives additional training and gains experience in the areas to
      which he or she is called or hired
      3.
      Accept the new staff minister as the one who has been called or hired to fulfill the staff minister’s
      role, and thus give him or her due respect.
      2.4.5 The mentor
      The mentor (attitudes):

      1.
      is fully committed to the Lord and to his ministry.
      2.
      is willing and eager to mentor the new staff minister.
      3.
      has humble confidence that he or she is able to help the new staff minister.
      4.
      is evangelical, kind, friendly, and approachable.
      5.
      is eager to serve our Lord and his people.
      6.
      is eager to learn and maintain the skills of mentoring.
      7.
      considers the new staff minister as a colleague in the Lord’s ministry.
      8.
      is convinced our Lord will bless his or her mentoring ministry.
      The mentor (behaviors and skills):

      1.
      demonstrates his or her commitment to our Lord by his or her personal spiritual life: church
      attendance, public Bible study attendance, personal Bible study, family devotions, devotion to
      his or her family, and devotion to his or her service in the public ministry.
      2.
      cultivates a strong relationship with the new staff minister by his or her attitude, words, and
      actions.
      3.
      is able to and will address in a forthright but evangelical and kindly way any areas of the new
      staff minister’s ministry that need to be improved.
      4.
      both talks and listens.
      5.
      is able to ascertain the needs of the new staff minister.
      6.
      demonstrates concern for the new staff minister’s interests and opinions.
      7.
      has numerous resources at his or her disposal.
      8.
      has acquired leadership skills.
      9.
      is knowledgeable about the doctrine and practice of public ministry within the WELS.
      10.
      is well organized and is able to teach those skills to the new staff minister.
      11.
      is computer literate.
      Page 6




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Note: During the pilot program, no outside funding for the program is anticipated. Mentors will have to
      volunteer their time without expectation of an honorarium or other compensation other than
      reimbursement of travel and other direct expenses from the new staff minister’s congregation. It will also
      be the responsibility of the mentors to seek and obtain permission from his or her own congregation or
      organization to participate in this program.

      2.4.6 The Conference of Staff Ministers (the Conference)
      1.
      Is responsible to, works closely with, and reports to the BPS and the COP.
      2.
      Administers the mentoring process through its officers.
      3.
      Recruits and selects mentors with input from and concurrence of MLC staff ministry faculty.
      4.
      Develops resources needed for the mentoring process.
      5.
      Works with mentors to obtain the necessary training.
      2.4.7 Circuit Pastor
      1.
      For congregational settings, the circuit pastor will function as the local representative of the
      district president during the mentoring process.
      2.
      Will encourage the new staff minister and be an additional resource for guidance and support.
      Page 7




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      3.0 Program implementation
      3.1 Assignment
      The Conference officers will maintain a list of qualified mentors. Mentors will be assigned by
      the Conference president in consultation with the Martin Luther College (MLC) staff ministry
      program faculty, the new staff minister, and the new staff minister’s congregational leaders
      (pastor, officers) or organizational supervisor.

      Mentor selection and assignment will take place as soon as possible following the new staff
      minister’s call or position acceptance.

      3.2 Mentoring activities
      The activities for the program are intended to last two years. The following tables present a
      schedule for these activities.

      Year 1 Activities Responsible
      person(s)
      Completed
      By
      Meeting
      time
      1. Onsite visit (preferred) or teleconference with
      the pastor and congregation chairman or other
      appropriate individual(s)
      Mentor 6/30 2 hours
      2. Onsite visit (preferred) or teleconference with
      with new staff minister
      Mentor 7/14 2 hours
      3. Phone calls to the new staff minister. Mentor Monthly
      Aug-March
      ½ hour
      4. Follow-up calls to pastor or supervisor Mentor As needed ½ hour
      5. Annual evaluation of program by phone
      conference
      Conf. Chairman, Mentor,
      New Staff Minister...
      4/1 1 hour
      6. Report pilot program findings to Conference Conference President 4/20 ½ hour
      7. Phone calls to the new staff minister. Mentor Monthly
      April – June
      ½ hour
      8. Prepare midterm report for new staff minister
      and congregation, copy to the Conference
      Mentor 7/31 As needed

      Year 2 Activities Responsible
      person(s)
      Completed
      By
      Meeting
      time
      1. Midpoint phone call to the pastor and
      congregation chairman or other appropriate
      individual(s)
      Mentor 6/30 2 hours
      2. Phone calls to the new staff minister. Mentor Monthly
      July-March
      ½ hour
      3. Follow-up calls to pastor or supervisor Mentor As needed ½ hour
      4. Annual evaluation of program by phone
      conference
      Conf. Chairman, Mentor,
      New Staff Minister...
      4/1 1 hour
      5. Report pilot program findings to Conference Conference President 4/20 ½ hour
      6. Prepare final report for new staff minister and
      congregation, copy to the Conference
      Mentor 7/31 As needed

      Additional details and specific guidelines for implementation of theses activities are provided in
      Section 4 Program reporting and review, and in Resource Numbers 2 through 6 following this
      Handbook.

       Page 8




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      During the implementation of these activities, the mentor is encouraged to:

      .
      Pray for guidance in your work and for the individual being mentored.

      .
      Schedule time for both of you to grow in your faith.

      .
      Learn from each other, both are partners in the mentoring process.

      .
      Closely follow the goals and strategies developed by the congregation’s board, council,

      the pastor and the staff minister. Remember you are not participating as a church

      counselor or an evaluator. You are to work within the congregation’s structure.

      .
      Communicate regularly with the pastor and congregation on the mentoring process.

      .
      Use your experiences, skills and knowledge to counsel and guide the mentored individual

      to develop his ministry using his gifts and abilities. We are not attempting to clone the

      mentor.

      .
      Be a God-pleasing model in all that you do and say.

      3.3 Mentor training
      For the pilot program, no additional training for mentors is proposed. Qualifications for pilot
      program mentors include requirements that these individuals be mature Christians who already
      understand and have experience with mentoring. Appropriate training will be considered for the
      final program based on input from the pilot program mentors.

       Page 9




      Resource 1 – Handbook

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      4.0 Program reporting and review
      4.1 Pilot program
      The mentor will prepare a brief report annually for the benefit of the new staff minister and the
      congregation or organization being served. The midterm report (after one year) will highlight
      the stronger gifts and talents exhibited by the new staff minister, progress made during the
      previous year, as well as areas that will be the focus of improvement in the coming year. The
      final report will cover the same topics, with recommendations for further growth and continuing
      education.

      The Conference officers will review the performance and effectiveness of this initiative annually.
      Prior to the review teleconference or meeting, the Conference president will seek information
      from the new staff ministers in the program, mentors, members of the congregations or
      organizations served, pastor and others as deemed appropriate. The officers will prepare a
      written report and for presentation to the Conference at the annual meeting along with any
      recommendations for modifications to the pilot program. The Conference will either approve or
      reject the proposed modifications at the annual business meeting. A copy of the report and
      approved modifications to the program will be submitted to the BPS administrator.

      4.2 Establishment of permanent program
      The Conference officers will recommend to the Conference at the annual meeting a course of

      action for the following year. The recommended course may be:

      .
      Extend the pilot program for another year.

      .
      Establish a permanent program.

      .
      Discontinue the program.
      The officers will base the recommendation on the effectiveness of the program, the number of
      opportunities available to evaluate the program, the number of candidates for whom the program
      would be helpful, and the like. The officers will recommend a long-term course of action only
      after a sufficient number of opportunities to implement and evaluate the pilot program
      adequately have occurred. It is anticipated that the pilot program will extend for several years to
      provide sufficient feedback for proper evaluation.

       Page 10




      Resource 2 – Mentor’s initial conference with the pastor
      and chairman of congregation

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Completion date: June 30 or prior to arrival of the new staff minister
      Estimated length of teleconference or meeting: 2 hours


      Objectives

      1.
      Acquaint pastor and board chairman with the mentoring process (Resource No. 1 –
      Handbook)
      2.
      Gain support for mentoring
      3.
      Help pastor and board chairman recognize that the new staff minister needs help,
      encouragement, and assistance
      4.
      Establish rapport with pastor and board chairman
      5.
      Address several practical items related to the new staff minister’s ministry
      Mentor’s preparation for the meeting with pastor and board chairman

      1.
      Arrange a meeting date and time with the pastor and board chairman
      2.
      Duplicate necessary copies of Resource No. 1 - Handbook
      3.
      Study Resource No. 1 - Handbook and become thoroughly familiar with the mentoring
      process.
      Agenda

      A) Prayer
      B) Discuss the Mentoring Program Handbook (Resource No. 1)
      C) Resource No. 3: Ministry duties and responsibilities


      1)
      Discuss this resource

      2) Ask the pastor and board chairman to review and discuss Resource No. 3 after
      completion of this meeting. Request that they be ready to complete that form at the
      summer meeting which the mentor will hold with the new staff minister.

      D) Discuss the following items related to the new staff minister’s ministry
      1) When the new staff minister is scheduled to arrive at his calling
      2) The specifics of the assignee’s call
      3) Challenges the new staff minister will likely face as he begins his ministry
      4) VEBA insurance – check that coverage is in place as soon as assignee arrives
      5) Housing – If there is no provided housing, is the board working with the new staff


      minister to find suitable housing?
      6) Have arrangements been made for moving?
      7) Is the congregation assuming the travel expenses for the assignee to travel to his new

      home?

      8) Salary payments and related matters
      a) Pay check procedures
      b) Does the new staff minister possibly need an advance in salary as he first moves to

      his new calling?

      c)
      Is the assignee familiar with the parsonage allowance as that relates to federal income
      taxes? Encourage that a knowledgeable individual from the congregation explain this
      to the new staff minister.

      d) Federal and state taxes
      e) Social security
      f) Utilities


       Page 11




      Resource 2 – Mentor’s initial conference with the pastor
      and chairman of congregation

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      9)
      Additional practical items
      a) Driver’s license
      b) Car license


      E) Thank the pastor and board chairman for their interest and cooperation
      F) Closing prayer


       Page 12




      Resource 3 – Ministry duties and responsibilities

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      New staff minister____________________________ Date completed___________________
      Congregation______________________________________
      City_____________________________

      Directions: On the line following each task or item put who is responsible and for what period of
      time. Especially note new staff minister’s ongoing and substitute (for others) responsibilities.

      Worship leadership

      1. Liturgy, music, sermon, etc. - who plans, who presents?
      2. Children’s message – who plans, who leads?
      3. Communion – who distributes? (Assisting with communion [sacerdotal function] may be
      necessary to maintain Minister of the Gospel status with IRS in the US)
      Spiritual Growth leadership

      1. Catechism – who plans, who leads?
      2. Sunday School – who plans, who leads?
      3. Sunday morning Bible study – who plans, who leads?
      4. Small groups – who plans, who coordinates, who leads?
      5. Bible Information Classes (BIC) classes – who plans, who leads?
      6. Congregational Assistant Program (CAP) – who plans, who leads?
      7. Youth/Men/Women/Children devotions/studies – who plans, who leads?
      8. Leadership Training – who plans, who leads?
      9. Other – who plans, who leads?
      Page 13




      Resource 3 – Ministry duties and responsibilities

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers
      Service leadership

      1. Shut-in Visits/Hospital Calls – who plans, who leads?
      2. Inactive Visits/Calls – who plans, who leads?
      Evangelism/Outreach leadership

      1. VBS, Seminars, etc. – who plans, who leads?
      2. Cold Calls/Follow-up Calls - who plans, who does?
      Fellowship leadership

      1. Christmas, Easter, and other activities – List and designate who plans, who coordinates?
      Page 14




      Resource No. 4 – Mentor’s first meeting with the new staff minister
      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Completion date: July 14 or very soon after the arrival of the new staff minister
      Estimated length of meeting: 2 hours

      New staff minister’s Name_______________________ Date of Meeting ___________
      Congregation _______________ City __________________State ________

      Mentor’s preparations for this meeting

      1. Be sure the new staff minister has this Handbook with Resources.
      2. Become thoroughly familiar with the contents of all items used for the meeting; especially
      be prepared to
      discuss each item in the agenda for this meeting
      3. Call the pastor to inform him of your meeting with the new staff minister
      Agenda

      NOTE: This agenda, as is evident, assumes that the mentor will lead the discussion.

      A) Introduction
      1) Tell me about yourself: family, home town, your personality, schooling, interests,
      activities at MLC
      2) Comments about this agenda: Don’t be intimidated by its length, prioritize, take tasks one
      at a time.

      B) Your new call
      1) Your church - some information
      2) Your responsibilities
      3) Your reaction
      4) God’s desire, expectations, and promise

      C) Your relationship with our Lord
      1) Church attendance
      2) Personal Bible study and devotions
      3) If married, family devotions
      4) Bible class attendance

      All of this to maintain you as a faithful servant of our Lord - personal and in your ministry.
      Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you
      an inheritance among all those who are sanctified (Acts 20:32).

      D) Establishing our relationship
      1) We are colleagues in Jesus’ ministry.
      2) Share your thoughts, please speak what is on your mind, ask questions, clarify
      3) How we address each other
      4) My role: to serve you, to help you do your ministry better

      E) Your approach to your ministry

      1) Our Lord has called you to be a leader. What does this mean? Some realities.
      a) You are an important spiritual leader in the congregation.
      b) You will be expected to become a primary leader in the congregation. The mentoring

      process will help you learn that roll and carry it out well.

       Page 15




      Resource No. 4 – Mentor’s first meeting with the new staff minister
      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      2)
      An important aspect of being a spiritual leader at your congregation means focusing on
      your congregation’s mission. Be ready to share that mission which includes the following
      components:
      a) The goal is making disciples of children and parents.
      b) The tool for achieving that goal is God’s Word.
      c) The methods are nurture and outreach.

      3) You are the Lord’s and the congregation’s servant
      4) Prepare God’s people for works of service: Your role is to help those working around you
      to do their ministry better:

      Eph 4:11-13 “It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be
      evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of
      service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and
      in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of
      the fullness of Christ.”

      5) Your responsibility to your family ( if you are married)
      a) Spiritual growth
      b) Communication
      c) Understanding your call and the time required to fulfill it
      d) Time for yourselves


      6)
      Relations with colleagues in the teaching, staff ministry and preaching ministry; parents;
      elected leaders; congregation members, and community people. Consider these thoughts:
      your personality, relating with people of all ages in the church and the community

      F) Some practical issues

      1)
      The new staff minister’s financial situation
      a) Offerings for the Lord
      b) Amount of student loans – repayment plans
      c) Use of credit cards
      d) Encouragement to set up savings plans


      2)
      Some encouragements
      a) Be prompt
      b) Keep promises
      c) Produce more than you promise
      d) Listen, observe
      e) Get to know and understand the culture of the people in the school, church, and

      community
      f) Respect the people of the church and community
      g) Inquire about why things are done the way they are
      h) Don’t be too quick to suggest change
      i) Don’t assume the way things are done are wrong just because you learned differently

      at MLC
      j) Talk to teachers and pastors regularly especially the first part of the school year
      k) Appropriate dress for school and around town, you are a leader, people look to you,

      model the ministry
      G) Discuss the contents of Resource No. 1: Handbook

       Page 16




      Resource No. 4 – Mentor’s first meeting with the new staff minister

      Pilot Mentoring Program
      WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      H) Resource No. 3 - Ministry duties and responsibilities
      1) Share with the new staff minister that prior to his arrival you met with the pastor and
      board chairman to discuss some important issues which will be discussed in this visit.
      2) Discuss this resource as it was completed during the Onsite Visit No. 1.

      I)
      Items discussed at the meeting including the pastor, board chairman, and mentor
      1) The specifics of the new staff minister’s call
      2) VEBA insurance coverage
      3) Housing
      4) Travel expenses for the new staff minister to travel to his new home
      5) Salary payments and related matters

      a) Pay check procedures
      b) Advance in salary as he first moves to his new calling
      c) Parsonage allowance as that relates to federal income taxes
      d) Federal and state taxes
      e) Social security


       Page 17




      Resource No. 5 – Mentor phone contacts with new staff minister

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Agenda

      a) Discuss any of the new staff minister’s concerns and questions
      b) Discuss progress on Ministry duties and responsibilities

      Record of Phone Calls

      August. – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      September – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      October – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      November – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      December – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      January – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      February – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

       Page 18




      Resource No. 5 – Mentor phone contacts with new staff minister

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      March – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      April – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      May – Date_________ Length____________
      Notes:________________________________________________________________________

      (Attach additional sheets as necessary.)

       Page 19




      Resource No. 6 – President’s questionnaire for mentor and new staff minister
      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Completion date: April 1 or shortly before the yearly Staff Minister’s Conference
      Length of meeting: 1 hour

      Note: This meeting can be done with the mentor and new staff minister together or
      independently. A copy of this questionnaire should be forwarded on to the Administrator for the
      Board for Parish Services for his records and review.

      1. What challenges did you encounter during the mentoring process? ______________________
      2. What blessings did you encounter during the mentoring process? _______________________
      3. How did the pastor, chairman, and congregation feel about the mentoring program? ________
      4. If you could change anything about the mentoring program what would it be? ____________
      5. Would you recommend that the mentoring program be continued in the future? Why? _____
      (Attach additional sheets as necessary.)

       Page 20




      Resource No. 7 – Mentor’s annual report

      Pilot Mentoring Program WELS Conference of Staff Ministers

      Completion date: July 31

      Note: This report is to be prepared at the end of both the first and second year of mentoring. It is
      intended for both the new staff minister and his or her congregation or organization. Copies of
      this report should be forwarded to the president of the Conference of Staff Ministers and the
      administrator for the Board for Parish Services for their review.

      1. In which areas has the new staff minister demonstrated noteworthy gifts? ________________
      2. In which areas has the new staff minister made demonstrable progress during the past year? _
      3. In which areas do you recommend that the new staff minister focus improvement efforts? ___
      4. What recommendations for further growth do you have for the new staff minister? _________
      5. What recommendations for continuing education do you have for the new staff minister? ___
      (Attach additional sheets as necessary.)

       Page 21






      Adam Mueller, Todd Fellows, Larry Olson, Jeff Gunn



      ---
      Someone wrote:
      Randy Hunter did not get permission to "call" Kirsten Koepsell and she is not certified at this time, but nothing has been done about this unbrotherly action. Some additional notes, based on the Latte Church website's own words -

      Minister of Worship Kristen Koepsell
      As Staff Minister of Worship, Kristen is responsible for planning and implementing all worship opportunities at St. Andrew.  She also oversees the large corps of worship volunteers who serve in many and varied capacities each week.
      ( - and I bet you dollars to donuts that some of these volunteers are male.)  Music is the largest part of the worship ministry at St. Andrew, but the worship ministry also includes lay readers, dramatic and visual arts, hospitality ministries and audio/visual tech support.  Kristen works closely with Pastor Hunter to study and understand biblical worship principles and practices, evaluate current worship practices at St. Andrew, and define future directions for St. Andrew’s worship ministry.
      (Sounds an awful lot like "Pastor" work to me!)

      Kristen graduated from Wisconsin Lutheran College in 2003 with a B.A. in Psychology and minors in Communication and Theology. While at WLC she worked for two years in the Campus Ministry Office planning and implementing daily chapel services, organizing various musical groups for worship, and learning from Campus Pastor Nathan Strobel.  She is currently pursuing Staff Ministry certification from Martin Luther College.

      Kristen grew up in the Pacific Northwest and always intended to return there after college, but God had other plans for her. He has planted her firmly in the family of faith at St. Andrew and for this she is truly and deeply grateful. When she’s not writing services or running rehearsals, Kristen spends her time reading science fiction and classic literature, playing piano, writing music, taking long walks in good weather, staying connected with friends and family, and generally enjoying life.

      “The best part of my job is knowing that my work directly impacts the spiritual lives of those who worship here and enables them to connect with God. I say this with a full and complete understanding (and appreciation!) of the fact that the actual work is done by the Holy Spirit through the means of grace – but it is a great privilege and a great joy to be an instrument in ‘administering God’s grace’ in the form of worship gatherings. The second most rewarding aspect of my work is assisting all sorts of members of the congregation in bringing their gifts to God and to each other as joyful offerings. How exciting it is to see brothers and sisters in Christ – of all ages! – learning and working together to serve God and His people. The interpersonal connections made and the spiritual lessons learned through this ministry are invaluable blessings from our gracious God.”

      ***

      GJ - Chief Little Hat (comment below) is saying, "Do you believe me or your lying eyes?"

      This official WELS website, copied verbatim, is the result of years of Larry Olson's work. He is known officially as the Harmless Heretic. "Everyone knows he is a false teacher." Yet this harmless heretic has managed to accomplish covertly what the Episcopal Church struggled over for years, out in the open.

      If people looked at the work of other female assistants at Chicanery congregations, they would find them also doing the work of pastors.

      At the very least, for tax reasons, Larry Oh! (DMin Fuller) is directing staff ministers to play the role of a pastor without being a pastor, for tax reasons. WELS began ordaining male teachers for tax reasons (no joke), so now they need to obey the IRS to get their tax breaks.

      ---

      Freddy Finkelstein has left a new comment on your post "Just As I Warned - WELS Has Women's Ordination Wit...":

      This document makes very clear to me why it is that elements of WELS leadership had been pressing for “women's ordination” and advocating a pastoral role for women, by having them commune other women. It's just too bad for them that so many WELS layman and pastors are such spiritual weaklings that, out of "brotherly concern for their weakness," a moratorium was placed on female celebrants in WELS. I frankly suspect that this has little actually to do (primarily) with a desire to change doctrine, but rather with organization building and ambivalence toward doctrine and practice. If someone wants to build an empire underneath them, and if the word “minister” can be construed as a “slippery term” (much like the terms “teacher” and “authority” have become), then why not profit from the lack of clarity? If there is anything we know, it's that now-defunct CGM theories were primarily about devloping programs – buzz-phrases like “evangelism” and “kingdom blah blah whatever” sitting in secondary position, as the beneficiaries of “effective programs.” The document produced in this blog entry bears the unmistakable fingerprints of the Church Growth Movement, beginning with the pietistic foundation of "lay ministers," with whom I have sufficient experience, both within and outside WELS, to have no confidence in, whatsoever.

      Frankly, I'd like to see the financials of the staff ministry program, and the results of the market research they have no-doubt conducted. How many students do they need in order to stay in the black? What is the male-to-female ratio of this program? What does their market research tell them about attracting new students? Are they at the statistical limit for attracting male students? If they need to attract more students to stay solvent, or to grow the program, is attracting female students the only realistic way to do so? Are there other reasons for needing to attract more females to this program – statutory or accreditation oriented reasons, perhaps? What would encourage more females to enter the program? The hope of a career as a Minister of the Word – with the same IRS advantages as males? If these are the considerations being made, are they relevant to the solvency of the staff ministry program only, or of MLC itself?

      This whole lay ministry program stinks to high heaven. I'm suspicious.

      Freddy Finkelstein



      ---


      Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Finkelstein on the Notorious WELS Document Support...":

      From the WELS Women's Ministry Website:

      Our History and the Original Brainstorm
      The WELS Women's Ministry Committee was spawned from an event that took place in June, 2002. The event, a brainstorming retreat, was a pilot project of the WELS Board for Parish Services. The "think tank" objectives were:

      1) to review and reaffirm the Biblical principles of the universal priesthood of all believers and of the role of men and women in the Church,

      2) to brainstorm, clarify, and prioritize ideas regarding vehicles and approaches which will foster, encourage, and enhance the personal and corporate ministry of WELS women and,

      3) to craft the outline for a document that will present our recommendations to the WELS Board for Parish Services for appropriate action.

      Ten WELS women from various walks of life participated in the June task force. Some of these women had full-time ministry positions or had had them at one time. Several women were working professionals, several were retired volunteers. Six WELS pastors representing the Board for Parish Services, Wisconsin Lutheran College, and Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, and Martin Luther College also participated. The Friday, Saturday, and Sunday retreat generated a set of "Action Plans". One of the programs that resulted as a key idea from the brainstorming retreat was a Commission or Committee on Women's Ministry in the WELS.

      It took a year to get the committee going; nevertheless, the think tank weekend essentially generated the committee. Initially, four women who attended the think tank were appointed to this committee. There were three men on the committee who represented the Board for Parish Services and the seminary.

      In October 2008, the committee expanded and now includes an Executive Committee, formed with the initial committee plus two new members, and several Sub Committees totaling 23 gifted women from across the nation and the two pastoral advisors.

      http://www.welswomen.net/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=180006131&sec_id=180002756&nc=1262231422796


      GUIDING PRINCIPLES:
      3) We are unafraid to apply Scripture wherever Scripture speaks, but
      we refuse to bind consciences beyond Scripture.
      While teaching all that Scriptures has to say, we will resist the pressure to set up a rule book
      of what ministry by and for women must look like in every ministry setting. Refusing to set
      up a one size fits all rule book gives people the opportunity to make wise and spiritually
      mature use of their Christian freedom. It refuses to cater to the laziness of our sinful nature
      that does not want to wrestle with challenging issues. We will urge people to listen carefully
      to what Scripture does have to say. We will also encourage them to make wise use of
      Christian freedom in decisions neither commanded nor forbidden by God,
      always striving to
      do only that which will honor God and build up Christ’s church.

      http://www.welswomen.net/home/180002756/180002756/Guiding%20Principles.pdf

      National WELS Women's
      Leadership Conference
      Leading with a Christ-like attitude
      July 16-18, 2010
      Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, WI

      Keynote Address:
      Leading with a Christ-like Attitude: Kathie Wendland
      Developing Personal Bible Study and Devotion Habits: Prof. Richard Gurgel