Episcopal Clergy in Los Angeles
Friday, December 04, 2009
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RIVERSIDE, Calif. — Clergy and laypeople voting to replace two retiring assistant bishops in the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles will choose Friday from a pool that includes two openly gay candidates.
The selection of one or both of the gay candidates at the diocese's annual convention would mark the first election of a bishop in a same-sex relationship since Bishop V. Gene Robinson was chosen in New Hampshire in 2003. Robinson lives with his longtime male partner.
Robinson's win six years ago led dozens of conservative parishes and four dioceses to vote to leave the 2.1-million member U.S. denomination and pushed the 77 million-member Anglican fellowship to the brink of schism.
There are six candidates in this week's election, including the Rev. John L. Kirkley of San Francisco and the Rev. Canon Mary D. Glasspool of Baltimore, who are openly gay.
It is hard to know, however, what further impact the selection of a second gay bishop would have on the faith.
The majority of Anglicans outside the United States are theological conservatives.
Within the United States, breakaway traditionalists have formed the Anglican Church in North America as a rival to the Episcopal Church.
Episcopalians have made clear to the rest of the Anglican family that they will not roll back their support for same-sex couples.
Last July, the Episcopal General Convention, the church's top policy-making body, effectively lifted a moratorium on electing another gay bishop. The temporary ban had been requested by Anglican leaders seeking to prevent a permanent break in the communion.
The Los Angeles diocese has 70,000 members and covers six Southern California counties.
Most of the candidates have viewed and approved the "Party in the MLC" video.
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mjleyrer has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
How do we know that most of them have seen and approved Party in the MLC?
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GJ - Because the candidates are gay, Mr. Leyrer.
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mjleyrer has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
So... you have no real real proof that they have seen and approved it? You're just assuming they did?
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GJ - I added that line to the actual story, to prank the humorless defenders of "Party in the MLC," similar to installing the gaydar dish on Old Main at Martin Luther College.
I got the idea about adding the sentence from people who accused me of making up the fact that Jeske preached at a joint service with the LCMS. Even though the link was embedded in the article I quoted verbatim, some accused me of making up one sentence because they did not find it in another source, which I never mentioned or linked.
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dk has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
Dr. Jackson is a called and ordained Pastor, a theologian, and by all appearances, a very knowledgeable gardener. (I read his book but haven't seen his garden)
Beyond that, Dr. Jackson is an honest man. He hasn't hidden anything about himself and his thoughts--he hasn't attempted to hide his dismay and anger at the 'teachers' who falsely represent God's Truth. Of course someone should be angry at false teachers.(and he's pretty good with satire too)
If you invest the time it takes to LEARN, and read what he's written, you will find that his argument against Objective Justification is solid--
the idea the God justifies anyone, without the Means of Grace, before faith, is completely unScriptural.
Jackson bears witness to the truth by proclaiming over and over: (paraphrase) The Means of Grace are called the Means of Grace because they are the means by which grace comes to a person: The Word and Sacrament are solely responsible for creating faith in the heart of a person, and faith justifies.
Professor (Dr.) (Pastor) Jackson deserves your respect for the hard work he's done. If you doubt Jackson's orthodoxy, honor him AND yourself by arguing with Scripture and the Confessions. You may learn something.
Do the work. If he's wrong, rebut. But if you won't do the work it might be a better use of your time to read Daily Kos.
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I. J. Reilly has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
Mr.Jackson may be ordained, but he is not currently called... unless he called himself like he gives communion to himself.
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GJ - Reilly (fake name) has spoken with the wisdom of WELS, where they "ordain" teachers and "call" kindergarten teachers. Does he know me or my situation? No, but that never stops the Chicaneries from beating their gums. They do not trust the Word of God, but they want everyone to listen with bated breath while they explain the word of man.
I was called to serve Bethany a long time ago, and that has been continuous since that time, 1998. I would like to see the Shrinkers start a congregation without synodical support, multi-million dollar loans, Thrivent grants, foundation loot, and special consultants.
Ah, that is where we have gained the upper hand. Without failed pastors to advise us, our little flock has broadcast the Word around the world. Our overhead is low. Didja ever hear of tent-making, Fake Reilly? I read about it in Shakespeare or the Bible. I would love to see one Chicanery working a real job and preaching twice a week during Advent and Lent.
Ski has spent well over $250,000 and has empty time sheets in all categories, including his quarterly blog offerings. But he goes to more Schwaermer conferences than his mentor, Andy Stanley. But all is not lost. I hear the Fox Valley pastors are fed up with the spreading cancer there. Stay tuned.
Doebler has one web page, after getting a $20,000 grant from Antioch. How much for a second web page? Or maybe there is a back door? Whatcha hiding?
Randy Hunter has a woman pastor working for him, according to the Book of Concord definition. Is the ELS upset? Is his WELS district? Is anyone?
Being legitimate in the eyes of a man-made synod does not equal being faithful in the Word and Confessions.
How many Reformed groups require their mission people to teach the Biblical Means of Grace? Zero. But how many "conservative" Lutheran synods demand that their mission people teach Enthusiasm? All of them.
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
Anonymous at 8:43pm,
"As Staff Minister of Worship, Kristen is responsible for planning and implementing all worship opportunities at St. Andrew."
http://www.st-andrew-online.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=5563&sec_id=2361
Kristen is a Pastor having received and accepted a divine call to serve in the WELS' St. Andrew Lutheran Church as Minister of Worship.
Here she is listed as Minister of Worship. http://www.st-andrew-online.org/site/cpage.asp?sec_id=2361&cpage_id=5431#Staff
Definition of Minister
noun 1. a person authorized to conduct religious worship; member of the clergy; pastor.
2. a person authorized to administer sacraments, as at Mass.
3. a person appointed by or under the authority of a sovereign or head of a government to some high office of state, esp. to that of head of an administrative department: the minister of finance.
4. a diplomatic representative accredited by one government to another and ranking next below an ambassador. Compare envoy 1 (def. 1).
5. a person acting as the agent or instrument of another.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minister
It's a false claim to say that Kristen is not a Pastor.
History of St. Andrew
|
|
| Pastor Randy Hunter |
| Minister of Worship, Kristen Koepsell |
| Minister of Spiritual Growth, David Hochmuth |
| Vicar, Alex Groth |
| Elders |
| Leaders |
“The best part of my job is knowing that my work directly impacts the spiritual lives of those who worship here and enables them to connect with God. I say this with a full and complete understanding (and appreciation!) of the fact that the actual work is done by the Holy Spirit through the means of grace – but it is a great privilege and a great joy to be an instrument in ‘administering God’s grace’ in the form of worship gatherings."
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Candidates for Bishop Love "Party in the...":
Does this lady help with communion?
It is not permitted or Scriptural! Tell me what I am reading ain't so.
President Schroeder, We have a problem!!! Somebody fix it. This is where my part ends, cause women can't usurp athority.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
Does this lady help with communion?
It is not permitted or Scriptural! Tell me what I am reading ain't so.
President Schroeder, We have a problem!!! Somebody fix it. This is where my part ends, cause women can't usurp athority.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
27 comments:
How do we know that most of them have seen and approved Party in the MLC?
So... you have no real real proof that they have seen and approved it? You're just assuming they did?
Michael, go back to sleep. You are not fooling anyone.
Michael? My name is Matthias. Good try though.
Jacko! I get it now! Man, you are a riot. That is a good one. Props to you sir.
Matthias, please stop.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone so easily baited as this halfwit leyrer.
I guess I could imagine someone creating leyrer to make a point...but I think Jackson's an honest guy.
So that must mean there's a real leyrer out there.
Here watch, I'll set him off:
To get a degree at MLC all you need is a pulse
"...but I think Jackson's an honest guy."
Are you kidding me?????????
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
If you present a story and it is not 100% true and you represent it as such, you are a liar!!!
He is a liar and an ass!!!! And so are you if you believe him.
Honestly not trying to argue here but did you go to MLC? I would just find it curious if you did. I think the academics over there are harder than they are at a lot of places but what do I know, I don't go there. What I think you should have said was to get a call in the WELS all you need is a pulse. That would have been more accurate.
And thanks for calling me a halfwit. Appreciate that one.
Dr. Jackson is a called and ordained Pastor, a theologian, and by all appearances, a very knowledgeable gardener. (I read his book but haven't seen his garden)
Beyond that, Dr. Jackson is an honest man. He hasn't hidden anything about himself and his thoughts--he hasn't attempted to hide his dismay and anger at the 'teachers' who falsely represent God's Truth. Of course someone should be angry at false teachers.(and he's pretty good with satire too)
If you invest the time it takes to LEARN, and read what he's written, you will find that his argument against Objective Justification is solid--
the idea the God justifies anyone, without the Means of Grace, before faith, is completely unScriptural.
Jackson bears witness to the truth by proclaiming over and over: (paraphrase) The Means of Grace are called the Means of Grace because they are the means by which grace comes to a person: The Word and Sacrament are solely responsible for creating faith in the heart of a person, and faith justifies.
Professor (Dr.) (Pastor) Jackson deserves your respect for the hard work he's done. If you doubt Jackson's orthodoxy, honor him AND yourself by arguing with Scripture and the Confessions. You may learn something.
Do the work. If he's wrong, rebut. But if you won't do the work it might be a better use of your time to read Daily Kos.
Anonymous at 5:38pm, please provide details specific to your accusation. Your comments are self descriptive when you don't provide verifiable facts that readers can confirm.
Mr.Jackson may be ordained, but he is not currently called... unless he called himself like he gives communion to himself.
I.J. Reilly may not be ordained... but he currently thinks he knows theology...
I hereby... issue a call to Dr. Jackson to be my pastor... via the world wide web.
that settles it...
next.
(enough with the ellipsis Reilly)
young Leyrer needs a spanking.
He must really have a despicable family. What toads they must be.
I'll betcha daddy sat junior down and said
"Son, you got a big mouth (mostly because we never believed in discipline) but we Leyrers have never made fools of ourselves (we're lucky) so I'd appreciate it if you dis-aligned yourself from your family (so that we don't have to) whenever you feel like making a fool of yourself. oh... thanks...My call (and benefits) depend on it. Now go sow your wild oats!!
young Leyrer needs a spanking.
He must really have a despicable family. What toads they must be.
I'll betcha daddy sat junior down and said
"Son, you got a big mouth (mostly because we never believed in discipline) but we Leyrers have never made fools of ourselves (we're lucky) so I'd appreciate it if you dis-aligned yourself from your family (so that we don't have to) whenever you feel like making a fool of yourself. oh... thanks...My call (and benefits) depend on it. Now go sow your wild oats!!
Mr. Reilly, on what information do you base your claim that Pastor Jackson isn't called to serve as the Public Minister of the Word to the families that attend Bethany Lutheran Church divine services?
Brett Meyer
Guess I hit a nerve, huh? GOOD! You want a rebuttal? Here ya go!
"Randy Hunter has a woman pastor working for him, according to the Book of Concord definition. Is the ELS upset? Is his WELS district? Is anyone?"
She is not a woman pastor according to anything. Y'all are ass-uming her duties AND whatever the chain of command is at Hunter's church. So much hyperbole.
I think I said "rebuttal" using Scripture and the Confessions.
um...
try again.
I think both sides of this could benefit from a recently posted Luther quote:
"I simply taught, preached, and wrote God’s Word; otherwise I did nothing. And while I slept [cf. Mark 4:26–29], or drank Wittenberg beer with my friends Philipp and Amsdorf, the Word so greatly weakened the papacy that no prince or emperor ever inflicted such losses upon it. I did nothing; the Word did everything."
The bantering should stop. Is there a place where we can talk about the truth without having to wade through lol catz and polemical nonsense?
Anonymous at 8:43pm,
"As Staff Minister of Worship, Kristen is responsible for planning and implementing all worship opportunities at St. Andrew."
http://www.st-andrew-online.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=5563&sec_id=2361
Kristen is a Pastor having received and accepted a divine call to serve in the WELS' St. Andrew Lutheran Church as Minister of Worship.
Here she is listed as Minister of Worship. http://www.st-andrew-online.org/site/cpage.asp?sec_id=2361&cpage_id=5431#Staff
Definition of Minister
noun 1. a person authorized to conduct religious worship; member of the clergy; pastor.
2. a person authorized to administer sacraments, as at Mass.
3. a person appointed by or under the authority of a sovereign or head of a government to some high office of state, esp. to that of head of an administrative department: the minister of finance.
4. a diplomatic representative accredited by one government to another and ranking next below an ambassador. Compare envoy 1 (def. 1).
5. a person acting as the agent or instrument of another.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minister
It's a false claim to say that Kristen is not a Pastor.
Does this lady help with communion?
It is not permitted or Scriptural! Tell me what I am reading ain't so.
President Schroeder, We have a problem!!! Somebody fix it. This is where my part ends, cause women can't usurp athority.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
I don't think it would be fair to call her a woman pastor when she clearly has not been through seminary or has been ordained.
I would like to point out that I'm NOT defending this. I would never want that in my church.
But can't you have ministers of finance, ministers of defense, etc etc. It's not fair to make such a statement when she's been through the system that the WELS has approved. Now, there's something to be said about the system but to call her a full blown pastor would be wrong. Well, at least from the information you've presented.
Minister of defense...
WHAT?
somebody tell me this is a joke please please please tell that leyrer wasnt serios..
I jus tgot dummer
Oh, by the way, Mr. Jackson... which pastors in the Fox Valley are starting this revolt?
Dr. Jackson never said anything about Fox Valley pastors "starting a revolt." He used the phrase "fed up," which, according to laymen in the Valley, is correct.
I am a layman at Riverview Lutheran in Appleton. I care not only about my own congregation, but about my neighboring churches, and I've been concerned about this whole CORE thing from the get-go. I listen to whatever information I can get my hands (ears?) on. My pastors and the other pastors around don't share much at all with laypeople about this whole thing, but you still hear things now and again...from people I consider very reliable.
St. Peter Freedom had a level-headed pastor come and go within five months, fed up with "deceit" (HIS WORD), in the St. Peter/CORE conglomoration, and insisting that he feels sorry for the members of those churches, who hear nothing more than recycled Baptist theology every week. I'd call that pretty fed up.
While most pastors in the area still remain silent (there are a lot of wimps up here), there are at least 5 pastors in the area who, for now at least, are still voicing objections "through appropriate channels." Apparently they are doing so louder and louder, to their district leadership and synod leadership. If their voices are ignored much longer, though, "fed up" will become a "revolt."
The cowardly pastors of Fox Valley will not bite the hand that feeds them. C&C knows this only too well.
The WELS has a couple different forms of public ministries (i.e. the pastoral ministry, the teaching ministry, the staff ministry, etc.). Calling her a minister of worship is just a way of showing that she's in the staff ministry, not a pastor. In fact, staff ministers work under the direction of the pastor. As far as being an instrument in "administering God's grace" goes, she plans the worship experience. Ergo, God uses her talents as a staff minister to create a worship service in which the Means of Grace can be administered. Rather than twisting her words around and arguing about this, why don't you just call up St. Andrew's, ask to talk to her, see what she meant by the statement, and then you'll have your clarification?
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