Friday, February 18, 2011

Fuller Seminary's Imprint Can Be Found in "Lay Ministry," SMPs, Etc.

C. Peter Wagner, Pentecostal Babtist at Fuller Seminary, knew a goldmine when he found it.
Fuller Seminary trained Lutheran doctrine and worship out of LCMS-WELS-ELS. ELCA pastors went there too and lapped up the toxins of Enthusiasm.
BC should see the endless list of male and female "staff ministers" in WELS.
David Valleskey, former Mequon president, studied at Fuller.
Valleskey "helped" Brug with The Ministry of the Word.
Frosty Bivens is also a Fuller student, and he is still misleading students at WLS, while writing for FICL.



bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Will Anyone Address the Swindle at the Seminaries?...":

Part of the reason for the LCMS seminaries having so few M Div students, and at the same time a glut of M Div graduates, is a 1989 (21 years ago) LCMS convention resolution said that lay ministers certified by the DP were kosher for life. This broke up many multi-site parishes which would otherwise have supported an ordained pastor with an M. Div or higher degree:

In 2007 the faculties of the seminaries said this practice was against the Augsburg Confession (much less common sense and spiritual sense). The practice is still common and official in the LCMS, however.

Issues Etc had a program on it in Oct 2010, and Steadfast Lutherans posted about that show today, 18 Feb:

More from Pr. Curtis on AC, XIV
February 18th, 2011Post by Todd Wilken

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=13892
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Wednesday, October 27, 2010
Lay “Ministers”
Pastor Heath Curtis of Trinity Lutheran-Worden, IL
http://issuesetc.org/2010/10/
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Book of Concord (Triglotta) PDFs here

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"For several years I've been a Pete Wagner fan. Although I don't see eye to eye with him on many important theological points (he approves of faith healing and speaking in tongues as long as it promotes church growth and he comes from a Billy Graham decision for conversion doctrinal background), he is the most eloquent spokesman of the Church Growth Movement. A prolific author on mission/evangelism/church growth subjects, Wagner is also an excellent teacher and a crystal clear writer."
WELS Pastor Reuel J. Schulz       
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS) Winter, 1980,
                                                       
"Read these books and you might become a Wagner fan too."
WELS Pastor Reuel J. Schulz  
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS) Winter, 1980,                
                                              
"In 1963 he [McGavran] planned to add to the Institute of Church Growth at Eugene an American Division headed by an American minister of church growth convictions, but the plan did not mature. In 1967 the annual Church Growth Seminar at Winona Lake, Indiana, drew in about 20 American ministers and heads of Home Missions Departments." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 14.         
                                             
"The Church Growth Movement has not yet paid enough attention to a critical self-assessment of its methodological presuppositions. Critics of the movement have raised important questions that need to be addressed." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 149.                                                         

"The basic responsibility for the seminar is mine, but I am also assisted by Donald McGavran, Win Arn and John Wimber of the Fuller Evangelistic Association." [Two week Doctor of Ministry seminar every winter at Fuller School of Theology, on church growth] C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 15.                                                        

"The conscious attempt to apply church growth philosophy to America was stimulated in the fall of 1972 by Pastor Charles Miller, then a staff member of Pasadena's Lake Avenue Congregational Church. At Miller's urging, I organized and asked McGavran to team-teach with me a pilot course in church growth designed specifically for American church leaders. We did it only as an experiment, but the results were remarkable: One of the students, Win Arn, left his position with the Evangelical Covenant Church and founded the influential Institute for American Church Growth." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books 1976, p. 15.                                                    

"Church growth consultation began at the Charles E. Fuller Institute in 1975, when it was still called Fuller Evangelistic Association, under C. Peter Wagner and John Wimber. I took over from Wimber in 1978." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Chapter: "Church Growth Consultation," by Carl F. George, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 159.                                                        

"These two lists give us two general categories of signs of the kingdom: Category A: Social signs or signs applied to a general class of people. These include (1) preaching good news to the poor, (2) proclaiming release to the captives, (3) liberating the oppressed, and (4) instituting the Year of Jubilee ('acceptable year of the Lord'). Category B: Personal signs or signs applied to specific individuals. These include (1) restoring sight to blind people, (2) casting out demons and evil spirits, (3) healing sick people, (4) making lame people walk, (5) cleansing lepers, (6) restoring hearing to deaf people, and (7) raising the dead." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 16.                                                    

"Church Growth consultants also draw from the social sciences, including anthropology, sociology, social psychology, psychology, educational psychology, instructional technology, communications, organizational development, management, and marketing." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Chapter: "Church Growth Consultation," by Carl F. George, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 160.                                                       

"When the roster of pioneers of church growth in North America is drawn up, three individuals will deserve a prominent place on it: One is Win C. Arn, one of the students in the first Fuller Seminary course in American Church Growth...Another pioneer is Paul Benjamin, who in 1974 left his position as Professor of New Testament and Church Growth at Lincoln Christian Seminary to establish the National Church Growth Research Center in Washington, D.C." C. Peter Wagner, Study Questions by John Wimber, Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: Regal Books, 1976, p. 17.                                                     

Professional church growth consultant: "A pioneer in this field is Pastor John Wimber of Yorba Linda Friends Church in Orange Country, California. Wimber has recently resigned his pastorate to head up the newly-created Department of Church Growth of the Fuller Evangelistic Association." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books 1976, p. 20.                                                         

"The preacher, in fact, was a fascinating combination of eloquent and illiterate (by his own testimony). In the services I saw fervent singing, joyous clapping of hands, dancing in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, testimonies, prophecies, preaching of the Word, and as a climax the handling of deadly poisonous snakes and drinking of strychnine. I discussed this with several members of the congregation. When I asked why they handled snakes they replied, simply, 'Because Jesus told us to do it as a sign.' Another sign of the kingdom." [Footnote - See C. Peter Wagner, What Are We Missing?, formerly Look Out, The Pentecostals Are Coming, Carol Stream: Creation House, 1973, 1978.] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 23.                                                  

"Win Arn, president and founder of the influential Institute for American Church Growth, is widely respected as a pioneer and major spokesperson for the American Church Growth Movement...He has produced or coproduced almost every film now in use in the area of church growth...'For the Love of Pete.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 230. ip is the son of Win                                                       

"W. Charles 'Chip' Arn is the foremost designer of church growth training curricula and resources used by individual churches and regional districts across the Protestant spectrum...Arn's most significant contribution to date is probably his work in The Master's Plan for Making Disciples, which is the first strategy of evangelism building on and incorporating the principles of church growth into a practical method for equipping laypersons and congregations to effectively reach their unchurched friends and relatives." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 230. Chip is the son of Win                                                     

"Kent Hunter is director of the Church Growth Center, Corunna, Indiana... Hunter sees his major contribution to the Church Growth Movement in the area of theology...Kent Hunter contributed two chapters to this volume: chapter 7, 'Membership Integrity: The Body of Christ with a Backbone,' and chapter 11, 'The Quality Side of Church Growth.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 240f.                                                       

"Roger Leenerts is an executive with the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, serving as associate executive secretary for North American missions on the Board for Mission Services. He has been a key instrument in introducing church growth principles and practices into the LCMS through sponsoring church growth seminars and workshops for key denominational personnel. Under this new emphasis, church planting became the primary mission emphasis for the synod. In the mid seventies only twenty new congregations were being started per year. Currently the number is over 100, and the goal for 1990 is 500 new congregations per year." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 246.                                                   

"Donald McGavran is the founder of the Church Growth Movement. See chapter 1, 'A Tribute to the Founder.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 248.                                                          

"Elmer Matthias is associate professor of practical theology at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, Missouri, an institution of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod...While serving the parish [Zion, Anaheim, California] he enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program in church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary, receiving his degree in 1977. At Concordia Seminary he became the first trained church growth seminary instructor in Lutheran circles, teaching church growth, evangelism, and parish administration." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 250.                                                      

"Lyle Schaller has been parish consultant since 1971 with the Yokefellow Institute, a retreat center in Richmond, Indiana, founded by D. Elton Trueblood. He has conducted approximately eight hundred workshops on church growth, parish planning, leadership, and related subjects." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 260.                                                        

"C. Peter Wagner is the Donald A. McGavran Professor of Church Growth at the Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Missions in Pasadena, California. The School of World Mission became a part of Fuller Seminary in 1965 when Donald McGavran, father of the Church Growth Movement, moved his nonacademinc Institute of Church Growth to Pasadena from Northwest Christian College in Eugene, Oregon. Since that time, Fuller Seminary has been the institutional base for the Church Growth Movement, first in its global expression and later in its North American expression." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271.                                                   

"C. Peter Wagner is the Donald A. McGavran Professor of Church Growth at the Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Missions in Pasadena, California. The School of World Mission became a part of Fuller Seminary in 1965 when Donald McGavran, father of the Church Growth Movement, moved his nonacademinc Institute of Church Growth to Pasadena from Northwest Christian College in Eugene, Oregon. Since that time, Fuller Seminary has been the institutional base for the Church Growth Movement, first in its global expression and later in its North American expression." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271.                                                   

"Recognizing the need for professional church growth consultation, in 1975 he [C. Peter Wagner] invited John Wimber to become the founding director of what is now the Charles E. Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth. Wimber got the Institute off to an excellent start, then left to become the founding pastor of Vineyard Christian Fellowship of Anaheim and Vineyard Ministries Internation... Your Spiritual Gifts Can Help Your Church Grow (Regal, 1979) is approaching the 100,000 mark... Church Growth and the Whole Gospel (Harper and Row, 1981) is a scholarly discussion of criticisms of the Church Growth Movement from the viewpoint of social ethics, in which Wagner did his doctoral work." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271f.                                                 

"Wagner invited McGavran to team teach with him, and the course was a success. Among its students was Win Arn, who almost immediately stepped out in faith and established the Institute for American Church Grwoth, also located in Pasadena. Both Wagner and McGavran were members of the founding board of directors. Arn has given brilliant leadership to the Institute for American Church Growth and ranks as the premier communicator of the Church Growth Movement in North America." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271f.                                                     

"Wagner was instrumental in the organization of the North American Society for Church Growth, and became its founding president in 1984. In the same year he was honored by Fuller Seminary with the Donald A. McGavran Chair of Church Growth." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 273.                                                     

 "Waldo Werning is director of the Stewardship Growth Center of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and an adjunct professor at Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne. He teaches a seminar course and conducts seminars which focus on 'supply side stewardship,' integrating church growth principles with a stewardship program." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 274.                                                       

"Stephen A. Wagner is senior pastor at Prince of Peace Lutheran Church in Carrollton, Texas. In addition he serves as chairman of the Church Growth Task Force of the Texas District, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod...He is the author of Heart to Heart: Sharing Christ with a Friend (Corunna, Indiana: Church Growth Center). He is also a contributing author to the Church Planting Manual (North American Missions Department of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, 1985), and he has written articles for denominational publications. Currently he is a candidate for the Doctor of Ministry degree in church growth from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 274.                                                   

"In January of 1982, he [Wimber] taught a course at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he is an adjunct professor, called 'Signs, Wonders, and Church Growth.' Wimber taught this course for four years and it became one of the most popular courses at Fuller." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 275.                                                        

"Cell. Sometimes called a kinship circle; a small group of 8-12 believers; an important part of the church's struct which has the primary functions of spiritual accountability and intimacy and secondary functions of Bible, prayer, and healing." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Body Life. The clustering of Christians together in a shared intimacy to achieve growth by all members of the body working together and building up one another." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Body Evangelism. A perspective which emphasizes the goal of evangelism as making disciples who are incorporated into the body of Christ, the result of which is church growth." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Church. An assembly of professed believers under the discipline of the Word of God, organized to carry out the Great Commission, administer the ordinances, and minister with spiritual gifts." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283f. Matthew 28                                                        

"Church Growth Principles. Worldwide truths which, when properly applied, along with other principles, contribute significantly to the growth of the church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                         

"Church Growth Eyes. A characteristic of Christians who have achieved an ability to see the possibilities for growth and to apply appropriate strategies to gain maximum results for Christ and the Church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                         

"Church Growth Conscience. The conviction that God's will is for the body of Christ to grow." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                          

"Communicant Members. The hard core of the church, those members who principally finance and support the church's existence." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 285.                                                       

 "Conversion Church Growth. Those outside the church come to rest their faith intelligently in Jesus Christ and are baptized and added to the church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 286.                                                          

"Conversion. Participation by non-Christians in a genuine decision for Christ, a sincere turning from the old gods and evils spirits, and a determined purpose to live as Christ would have people live." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 286.                                                         

"Discerning the Body. Seeing a local church or a denomination as it really is and obtaining and analyzing information about it and its members." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 287.                                                          

"Faith Projection. A projected growth goal based on present growth patterns, plus a trust in the Lord for an increase in the harvest. Usually a five year projection." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 289.                                                          

"Fluxuating Receptivity. The responsiveness of individuals and groups waxes and wanes due to the Spirit's peculiar activity in the hearts of people." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                       

 "Follow-up Gap. The difference between the number of persons who make decisions for Christ in a given evangelistic effort and those who go on to become disciples." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                         

"Felt Need. Describes the conscious wants and desires of a person; considered to be an opportunity for Christian response which stimulates within the person a receptivity to the gospel." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                          

"Harvest Theology. The presentation of the gospel which results in the actual decision of nonbelievers to follow Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 291.                                                          

"Life Style Evangelism. Role modeling by Christians so that non-Christians will identify with the life of Christ in the believer as well as the gospel message, and will better hear the message. This approach to evangelism is rooted in theology and sociology." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 293.                                                         

"Perfecting. The process of nurture and development (following discipling) that is required to take believers from the initial acceptance of Jesus Christ to mature faith and obedience; sanctification." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 296.                                                       

 "Planned Parenthood. A congregation decides to become a mother church and plants a daughter church. Intentional church planting." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 297.                                                       

 "Social Action. Christian involvement in changing the structures of society in order to help the poor and oppressed." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 299.                                                           

"Soil Testing. An evangelistic strategy that seeks out those people who are open to receiving the gospel at the present time." [Note the Mark Braun NWL article about the sower and the seed, employing this soil testing concept.] C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 300.                                                     

 "Winnable People. Those who are considered receptive to the gospel; those who will respond. See HARVEST PRINCIPLE; RESISTANCE-RECEPTIVITY AXIS." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 302.                                                           

"I know these questions are real because I was asking them myself when I first came, during my second missionary furlough from Bolivia, to study at Fuller under McGavran. Frankly, I entered his program in 1967 as a skeptic. But I emerged an enlightened person." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 35.                                                        

"Church growth is that science which investigates the planting, multiplication, function and health of Christian churches as they relate specifically to the effective implementation of God's-commission to 'make disciples of all nations' (Matt. 28:19-20 RSV). Church growth strives to combine the eternal theological principles of God's Word concerning the expansion of the church with the best insights of contemporary social and behavioral sciences, employing as its initial frame of reference, the foundational work done by Donald McGavran." [Constitution, Academy for American Church Growth] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 75.                                                   

Acknowledgments to: Donald McGavran, Win Arn, John Wimber, Paul Benjamin, Dennis Oliver, Harold Lindsell...Jack Hyles...Robert Schuller.... C. Peter Wagner, Study Questions by John Wimber, Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: Regal Books, 1976, p. 9.                                                         

 "In 1980 the Church Growth Movement celebrated its twenty-fifth anniversary. The historical even now regarded as the beginning of the movement was Donald McGavran's publication of The Bridges of God in 1955." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. x.                                                          

"Lyle Schaller, for example, now characterizes the emergence of the Church Growth Movement as 'the most influential development of the 1970's on the American religious scene." [In the Foreword to Donald McGavran and George G. Hunter III, Church Growth Strategies that Work (Nashville: Abingdon, 1980) p. 7.] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. xi.                                                       

Will Anyone Address the Swindle at the Seminaries?

Holy Mother Sow, we all love to feed off you.
Too bad there are not enough feeding stations for the future pastors."



bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "LCMS Seminary Costs":

An offsite post that may have been a reaction to (or at least informed by) the Icha-posts on LCMS seminary costs is here:

Economics in One Lesson -or- My Plan to Save the Seminaries, 15 Feb 2011
http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2011/02/economics-in-one-lesson-or-my-plan-to.html

These posts are related to the above post:

Don't go to the seminary, 30 Apr 2010
http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2010/04/dont-go-to-seminary.html

Challenging Article on Seminary Enrollment by Rev. Heath Curtis
February 18th, 2011, by Pastor Tim Rossow
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=13885
===============
Icha-posts on the wildly spiraling upward LCMS seminary tuition costs:

Church Growth Seminaries Use Failing Business Model
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/12/church-growth-seminaries-use-failing.html

Mercy! - The LCMS Budget Is Corrupt Beyond Belief
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/01/mercy-lcms-budget-is-corrupt-beyond.html

Your LCMS Benevolence Dollars - Not At Work Supporting the Seminaries
http://4ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/01/your-lcms-benevolence-dollars-not-at.html

Maybe Because Bruce Church Told the Truth about Sky-High Tuition and the 600 Empty Parish Lie
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/09/maybe-because-bruce-church-told-truth.html
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Someone Thanked Ichabod - Really Bruce Church - For the Coverage on Seminary Tuition Swindles
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/11/someone-thanked-ichabod-really-bruce.html
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Here are some Icha-Megatron quotes on the supposed looming pastor shortage:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/02/worship-part-iv-thy-strong-word.html

***

GJ - "We need to pay the Nagels and the Scaers of the world to work at theology full time."

Where would we be without David Scaer attacking justification by faith, promoting UOJ and Roman Catholicism?

Mischke Conferring with ELCA Archbishop.
Jeske Free Conference



rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "The Jeske Free Conference with ELCA Gay Activists:...":

I specifically remember when you exposed the Snowbird Conference in CN. I also remember the picture of Mischke, Bohlmann, and Chilstrom all seated next to each other. One WELS called worker said to me, "about that picture, it is not what you think that it is".


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GJ - I subscribed to The Lutheran magazine and found a great gap between their truthful coverage and The Northwestern Lutheran's lies by omission.

I sent Otten the photo of all three chiefs conferring together. The visual proof created a certain hullabaloo, which died down soon after.

No one care to do anything substantial.

Jeske is promoting Change or Die! as a free conference.

But at a free conference:
  1. The event is advertised as a free conference, not as a united ministry front on how to do things right.
  2. A free conference is organized to discuss doctrinal differences without showing doctrinal unity. This event is clearly showing unity of method and doctrine.
  3. A free conference would display common courtesy by communicating their plans with the synod presidents, but this joint-ministry event was a complete surprise to WELS SP Schroeder. I thought he told Church and Change to keep him posted on their plans. Also, Gurgle told one pastor that Church and Change no longer existed. For a dismembered lobbying group they seem terribly active and destructive.

The Jeske Free Conference with ELCA Gay Activists:
This Has Gone On a Long Time.
Did You Object?

Episcopal Bishop Robinson and His life-partner.
Fellowship with ELCA means fellowship with The Episcopal Church.
Fellowship with Jeske means the same.


"CHIEFS CONFER: Waiting their turn to speak at a recent Lutheran leadership consultation are Dr. Carl Mischke, president of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church...Bohlmann...and ELCA Bishop Herbert W. Chilstrom. At the July 18-20 event in Snowbird, Utah, in the Wasatch Mountains, 130 Lutheran leaders gathered to articulate a 'vision of leadership' for their respective church bodies."
The Lutheran, (ELCA) September 4, 1991, p. 33.

Did you object 20 years ago? I did. I published the material in Christian News. I wrote letters. I met with DP Mueller.

When WELS joined the multi-cultural project with ELCA, I let people know.

When WELS joined with ELCA to produce the Joy Radio show. Did you object? I did. When "Dr." Carl Mischke lied about it in a letter to a WELS pastor, I phoned the ELCA chairman of the group and asked him about WELS participation. The Synod President of WELS was calling him a liar. Even the man's secretary said, in astonishment, "We had Tom Barber [WELS] here all the time!"

The lies had to be modified somewhat, but they continued.

Now you will hear that WELS is not involved in Lutheran World Relief, that Missouri's LWR work is somehow different because they are in a different compartment of the egg carton called LWR. "Anybody home?" WELS say, "Nope." ELCA says, "Nope." Missouri says, "Then we are all alone here." WELS says, "Yup." ELCA says "Yup."

If you want to object to Jeske's newest nose-thumbing, you will have to ask yourself:
1. What were you doing about this during the last 20 years?
2. How many lies are you willing to overlook?

Secrecy Does Not Work - Except To Protect Corruption and False Doctrine.
WELS Official Secrets Act


The favorite method in WELS, to keep things going downhill, is the Official Secrets Act. Everything is a secret. Murders? - that is a secret. Lawsuits lost by WELS - secret. DP Ed Werner in state prison? - he's an ex-con now, so that is a secret, just as it was before. Dozens of clergy and officials supporting a known false teacher and serial adulterer? - blank look. Working with ELCA? - a big secret.

Those who object to the apostasy of WELS are managed by the Official Secrets Act. Anything done by the plaintiff must be kept a secret. Why? So the officials can deny that anyone objected to anything any time. However, the aggrieved officials can start trashing the plaintiff to their heart's content, because they are concerned with the smooth and efficient working of Holy Mother Synod.

For example, pastors and laity got involved as a group in dealing with Glende and Ski, two notorious plagiarists, in Appleton. They did their work. They studied the public material. The attorney was one of them, as he has stated in his own blog, so they had a witness, perhaps more. I had no connection with them, although I was blamed for their dislike of false doctrine and plagiarism. I did have plenty of material, backed by linked, on the plagiarism poster boys. Tim and Ski also did as many self-destructive things as anyone could imagine - and then some.

The results of these secret letters and meetings were - zilch. No one knew exactly what was said and written, because it was a secret. Who participated? I do not know, because it was a secret.

Since it was a secret, Deputy Doug Englebrecht felt secure enough to duck the promised meeting, leaving a typed letter for them to read. What was in the letter? That is a secret. If I had a copy, it would be posted. Perhaps it will be later, if someone who knows someone who knows someone leaks it.

Cap'n Huff-N-Puff also sent one of his appointed lackeys to listen to Ski and judge his orthodoxy. The sycophant visited The CORE and found it a delightful depenser of orthodox doctrine and practice, according to Doug. The man might have started foaming at the mouth. We will never know, because it is a secret. Using WELS' criteria, I will not believe it unless I have a video from the lackey - and even then... (WELS can be very strict, you know.)

The lackey visitation reminds me of a parallel incident in ELCA. Even the ELCA pastors in California were offended that HerChurch in San Fran was having pagan feminist rosaries and other inanities in their worship service. The ELCA bishop sent a lackey. Does this sound familiar yet? And yes! The lackey found that the service was completely orthodox, even though he/she attended unannounced. The bishop reported this fact, so we only have the bishop's report of the lackey's report. But we now rest assured that none of the videos posted by HerChurch are true or even honest. The debbil probably produced them. Or Ichabod is just getting ELCA pastors upset over nothing.

Back to Appleton and the Plagiarist Pastor Poster Boys - Tim and Ski. What happened because of all these secret meetings, letters, conversations, reports? This study group must have produced something. I don't know their names and I don't have their response - everything is secret. I am not being coy - I do not hold back information when I have it.

Nothing happened. Correction. Something did happened. Beating up the attorney escalated several notches. Trashing the group went into high gear. Here is just one example - they were all falsely accused of working with me when they were not.

That is pretty insulting, because Deputy Doug accused them of being dishonest accomplices and willing stooges. Such is his self-loathing that he would accuse others of being what he clearly is.

In contrast, when the Intrepids identified another example of plagiarism in Appleton--it's the water--the pastors apologized and removed the Swindle material from the WELS parish websty.

Also, there is real activity because:
1. The attorney published his material.
2. The Intrepids publicly objected to the joint WELS-ELCA-LCMS workshop.

The lesson people should learn is this - hang together or hang separately.

Secret objections are not only buried - they are perverted by the perverted leaders who manage this farce.

I have to grade some papers. My Icha-widow is awake and she thinks I am earning a living.