ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
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Thursday, June 2, 2011
Patterson and Glende Became Facebook Friends in May
What do they have in common, besides anonymous comments sent to this blog?
Church and Change!
Going to false doctrine conferences!
Imagining that Babtists have something to teach Lutherans!
Do not forget - Glende and Patterson both excommunicated members for doing what WELS demands, that someone go to them and tell what their objections are.
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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Patterson and Glende Became Facebook Friends in Ma...":
Scott...you really need to get your nose in the Icha-slang Lexicon...It is left 'boot' of fellowship. BTW...it didn't even hurt...I knew it was coming and made sure I had the Word of God in between me and the boot...kind of like when I was a kid and there was a spanking coming...I'd stick a little extra padding in one of my back pockets and make sure I turned my cheek in the direction of the spanking :O Hope the new job works out well for you!!
Paul Paul the Unlearned
Goes Medieval on Our Free, World-wide Gospel Broadcasts.
The Usual Thugs Join In for Ascension Day.
Paul T. McCain (Ptmccain) Member Username: Ptmccain Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2009 |
My point simply in mentioning Jackson's sectarianism is simply to demonstrate that there is no point in paying any attention to what the man does, or says. He craves attention by which he attempts to spread his heretical views of the Gospel. And, ironically, he has set himself up as a cult-like leader of his little "internet church" sect. |
Michael Bryant (Mike) Senior Member Username: Mike Post Number: 2341 Registered: 1-2005 |
"He craves attention by which he attempts to spread his heretical views of the Gospel." And we don't help matters by comparing what he is reported to do to entirely dissimilar (reported) actions by a few within our fellowship. The fact that he is only known to truly influence those within his internet church sect is evidence (to me anyway) that there aren't waves of LCMS'ers flocking to him to "hear the truth". If 5% of our membership has even HEARD of him, I would be truly astounded! Joel Osteen is a bigger problem - but we don't need Koinonia to correct his followers either. |
Mike Gehlhausen (Mikeg) Senior Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 5023 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mike B., You wrote: "And we don't help matters by comparing what he is reported to do to entirely dissimilar (reported) actions by a few within our fellowship. The fact that he is only known to truly influence those within his internet church sect is evidence (to me anyway) that there aren't waves of LCMS'ers flocking to him to "hear the truth". If 5% of our membership has even HEARD of him, I would be truly astounded! Joel Osteen is a bigger problem - but we don't need Koinonia to correct his followers either." And I have yet to understand whether he consecrates bread and wine and then ships it to members for their use -- which is similar to what elders have been said to do in some congregations -- or whether he tells his members that his consecration over the Internet is effective. If he does claim the latter, he might be interested in this LCMS CTCR opinion. "DVD Consecration" - A response to a request from a district president [February 2006] |
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GJ - I am not especially honored that Paul McCain is ranting about me again. He was so obnoxious on the ALPB Online Forum that he was suspended. He disappeared after that from ALPB. I am not sure whether they kicked him out or he left again. He quit that forum before for "mental health" reasons, as he wrote.
One reader told me he sent McCain a friendly email and got an abusive, angry reply back. The reader was stunned, to say the least.
Every so often McCain starts posting about me, so I am glad he has found a group worthy of him.
These so-called conservative Lutherans are upset that I discuss justification by faith, which makes me a heretic in their blinded eyes. That means Luther and Gausewitz were heretics too. Pope Paul McCain is selling a justification by faith (no UOJ) catechism at CPH right now. It even uses the KJV, so McCain is a heretic too, by Lutherqueasy standards.
McCain agrees with Herman Otten, his secret political buddy, but Paul does not get along with Herman either. I used to think Paul got along with ELCA best, but that blew up. Now we can see that the Cascione group is his natural home.
I need advice from the LCMS Bored of Doctrine? That is funny. One of the Enthusiasts makes a false assumption, then says, "If you are sending out the consecrated elements with a DVD, you need to read this from us." Maybe you Enthusiasts should start with your own Enthusiasts, including Rolf Preus, Jack Cascione, and Pope Paul McCain.
People asked for an independent church, and Brett Meyer was kind enough to move us from teleconference calls to free Internet video services. The LQ sorority does not need to watch anything or read anything. Thousands have used the video services, according to Ustream. The last 11 months of the blog have recorded 500,000 page-reads.
The Bethany blog is just for sermons. I have seen them being read all over the world, especially in the Third World. I am not sure why, but the map indicates that response.
Today, Ichabod had 2400 page-reads. I do not think most people regard that response as a cult.
We agree with the Scriptures, appreciate the KJV most of all, and are in complete agreement with the Book of Concord. That disqualifies us as a cult.
I am not draining away your Thrivent or Schwan dollars, so I am no threat.
But people are wise to the UOJ fraud now, and that is a threat to the sob-sisters of LQ. I
am nothing and have no power. They are convicted by the Word of God.
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Still Blank:
Since I was 'drawing a Blank' during my last post, I thought I would finish the sentance (sic) I apparently deleted in process: "He even posted a fine letter I wrote to a fellow church member (that apparently shared it with him)."
Pr. Kirchner, indeed I did give permission for the letter to be shared, so in that respect, I have no problem with it being there... I just did not expect it.
Labels:
Paul McCain
Timothy Drawing a Blank, Complains about Being Quoted When He Encourgaged Sharing His Magnum Dopus
Timothy Blank (Timothyblank) Intermediate Member Username: Timothyblank Post Number: 425 Registered: 11-2004 |
Wow, Mr. Jackson has added my name to his list of violations of the 8th commandment. A "UOJ stormtrooper" and a "fool." He even posted a fine letter I wrote to a fel (sic) (that apparently shared it with him): http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/201 1/01/blank-clc-uoj.html Timothy |
Donald Kirchner (Kirchner) Senior Member Username: Kirchner Post Number: 2914 Registered: 11-2001 |
...that apparently shared it with him... You should mention that you did add a postscript to your letter: "You are free to share what I have written with whomever you wish." |
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GJ - I wonder why it is a sin to publish something that should be shared with "whomever you wish." I was discussing this issue when I was in the CLC (sic).
Another question is - what is this enormous list of Eighth Commandment violations? Someone who makes an accusation like that--on a public (if seldom read) forum like LutherQueasy--should back it up with facts. Otherwise we might think Bland is another sob sister.
I can tell the readers this - he has never written me directly or sat down and held my hand while telling me my faults. (I am glad for that.)
Labels:
Eighth Commandment
According to Bored, Randy Hunter Looks in a Mirror
And Sees God
bored has left a new comment on your post "Another Strawy Epistle:Perish Services Pleads for ...":
What does snow and the Church Growth Movement have in common? Both are made up of flakes.
Did anyone else get the fullness of what Hunter is saying here? According to him, God made churches with their strengths AND weaknesses because God doesn't like to be bored. And here I would've thought sinful man was responsible for the weaknesses in churches. hm...
Randy, I'm remarkably bored by you because you seek to make God from an image of yourself--and call me crazy, but if we're going to remake God according to the strictures of contemporary populism I just don't think you are quite qualified.
By the by: The Latte Lutheran churches aren't just filled with young hipsters who only have themselves to blame if they lose their faith while sipping the double-whip false doctrine of Enthusiasm. I happen to know that in Hunter's congregation there are several cognitively vulnerable children--whose eternal souls are in the hands of Pastor Randy and their idiot parents.
Let us pray for these.
Labels:
Church and Change
The Ascension of Our Lord
Mid-Week Lenten Vespers
Pastor Gregory L. Jackson
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bethany-lutheran-worship
Bethany Lutheran Worship, 7 PM Central Time – Ascension.
The Hymn #558 4.44
The Order of Vespers p. 41
The Psalmody Psalm 4 p. 123
The Lection Passion Harmony, TLH
The Sermon Hymn #245 4.6
The Sermon – Faith Conquers Fear
The Prayers
The Lord’s Prayer
The Collect for Grace p. 45
The Hymn #189 4.7
KJV Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
KJV Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
ASCENSION
O Jesus Christ, Thou almighty Son of God, who art no longer in humiliation here on earth, but sittest at the right hand of Thy Father, Lord over all things: We beseech Thee, send us Thy Holy Spirit; give Thy Church pious pastors, preserve Thy word, control and restrain the devil and all who would oppress us: mightily uphold Thy kingdom, until all Thine enemies shall have been put under Thy feet, that we may hold the victory over sin, death, and the devil, through Thee, who livest and reignest with God the Father and the Holy Ghost, one true God, world without end. Amen,
Faith Conquers Fear
The New Testament seems to emphasize the failings of the disciples. I doubt whether any other historical account shows the initial followers of a great leader to be so obvious in their faults.
I could list many of them, but they are best summed up in two phrases – fear and lack of faith.
One is an emotion. The other is not.
Fear is our emotional response to what we sense at the moment, based on our experience and assumptions. Loud noises are frightening. So is complete silence.
We were in Milwaukee on day, on the Lake. The lake’s surface was as smooth as glass, not a wave in sight, rare for any of the Great Lakes. If we had known better, we would have been afraid. The temperature dropped 40 degrees in about one hour. That was another bad sign, which we ignored. I remembered that hour, because I was reading in the car. At first I had the window down to cool off the car. While I was waiting I got so cold that I rolled up the window.
The calmness and temperature drop preceded a gigantic storm that we missed by arriving at home. Waves dashed against homes high up on the cliffs. If we had known more at the time, looked at a barometer (not found in Dodge Aspens), we would have headed for home more quickly.
The disciples were certainly intelligent enough. And they had plenty of experience. However, their senses told them things based on the wrong assumptions. What they thought they knew was wrong, because their emotions grabbed their human knowledge and ignored the presence and teaching of the Son of God.
As Luther wrote in one of his sermons about the Sea of Galilee, when fear grips us, faith goes out the window.
Faith is not an emotion, not a virtue. I realize how some Lutherans get confused, because our Arminian (Decision Theology) culture treats faith as an intellectual choice or virtue.
God’s Word creates and sustains faith, so faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit, a product of the Holy Spirit when the Word teaches us the Gospel Promises.
In contrast, the Word as God’s Law can teach us fear and respect toward God. “To this man will I look, who trembles at the Word of God.”
The Ten Commandments teach us first to fear God as the infinite power revealed in His Word. Those who juggle with the Word of God and try to teach Jesus to speak correctly, their way, are without fear of God. They know the Name of God has great power, and they abuse that power to oppress and deceive people. Their hardness of heart reveals how they treat the Word of God, which makes them flintier as they continue to abuse it.
At a bakers’ convention I met many wealthy bakers’ families. For instance, one baker had dozens of outlets in one city. He mentioned that he ordered 200 bags of flour at a time, in 100 pound bags. That equals 20 tons of flour in each order. So they were rich. His wife looked liked a baked lizard from sunning herself all the time, in tropical climes. The sun is so powerful that it can turn skin into leather. The woman probably did not notice that, but adored her deep, deep tan.
People glory in their hardness of heart, too. They only proves how blinded they are. They can mouth the words of Scripture but cannot teach its meaning, except to distort it.
So we can see how patiently and lovingly Jesus built up the faith of His disciples. Many times He rebuked them for their lack of faith, their fear, but He built up their faith by showing them how much they could trust in Him.
Although the resurrection itself was a great and glorious miracle, the Ascension was a special confirmation of Jesus’ power as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Before their eyes, the disciples and the 500 saw and heard the risen Christ. Moreover, the disciples saw Him ascend into heaven.
That is why conservative Lutherans and all liturgical believers mark the Day of Ascension. It is the triumph of divine revelation over human knowledge and experience. The liberal skeptics hide their unbelief in the actual resurrection of Christ, not to mention all His divine attributes. Ascension is just too much for them. They openly confess it to be impossible. They rarely observe this day.
The Ascension of Jesus had to be just as powerful in the preaching of the risen Christ as the empty grave itself. And it is a powerful antidote to fear, our emotional response to uncertainty and to guilt over sin.
Fear about material needs is based upon not trusting the most basic attribute of God – that He cares for our earthly needs. We cannot help being fearful when the headlines are screaming and the people around us are suffering. A few years ago, we all assumed a certain degree of prosperity and security. That has been taken away, but God still guides the universe. Similar crises have happened in the past, due to man’s greed and deception, war and foolish leadership.
Jesus sent out the apostles without jobs of any kind. There is no mention of how they get along. They were even warned to carry swords, because of physical danger. But God provided.
The other part of fear relates to guilt. The fear is lack of faith in God’s goodness and mercy. The Gospel Promises remove that fear, banish it especially when we are reading the Gospel and dwelling upon it.
This week I recalled a Chinese missionary I met when I was in grade school. He had to take a long journey in a wild land. The China of the warlords was a dangerous place. His government guardian gave him protection. The man who went with him was the official executioner, with a large sword. The missionary was no longer afraid.
Luther uses similar comparisons when he preaches about the attacks of Satan upon our emotions, because the devil attacks where we are weakest. God’s Word is a powerful weapon against anything Satan can say because all power has been handed over to Christ against Satan. One “little” Word of God can fell him.
And it does not depend on our power, goodness, or virtue. It is God’s own Son who is the valiant warrior against Satan. He is both the Hero and the innocent Lamb of God, dying for our sins.
This is too great for us to grasp, but the Word of God is engrafted into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, so the Gospel grows in us, encourages this faith in God’s mercy, and produces Gospel fruits.
Quotations
ASCENSION DAY
"The efficacy of the Word, unlike that of the seed, always has a result. The man to whom the Word of God comes, and who repels it, is not as he was before. Where long and persistently refused, hardening at last comes, Exodus 8:15; 9:12; John 12:40; Hebrews 4:1, and the Word becomes a 'savor of death unto death,' 2 Corinthians 2:16. Every word heard or read, every privilege and opportunity enjoyed, leaves its impress either for good or for evil. It is not so properly the Word, as man's abuse of the Word; not so much the efficacy of the Word, as the sin taking occasion of the efficacy that produces this result, Romans 7:8."
Henry Eyster Jacobs, Elements of Religion, p. 155.
"Since the Word of God is this weapon [sword], it behooves us to make use of it at all times and to this end become acquainted with it both by means of public preaching and by earnest Bible study at home. Cursory reading must be supplemented by careful memorizing of proof-texts and strong passages. Only in this way sall we be able to make the proper use of the Word of God as a true
weapon of offense at all times."
Paul E. Kretzmann, Popular Commentary of the New Testament, 2 vols., II, p. 292.
"Such is the nature of faith that it feels nothing at all, but merely follows the words which it hears, and clings to them."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., III, p. 194.
"Now, it is true, the preaching of faith is very lovely and winsome, but coupled also with subtle and potential risk, particularly for the fleshly heart. For preaching about faith is preaching about grace. Thus when in the first article of the Creed I preach that God created heaven and earth, or in the second article that God sent His only Son to earth, allowing Him to suffer and die, and so on, this is all the work of God, granted and bestowed on us by grace. When one now preaches about this goodness and grace of God, coarse and fleshly hearts object and willfully distort the grace of God, as St. Jude says, into lasciviousness.
Sermons of Martin Luther, The House Postils, 3 vols., II, p. 113.
"Now the Christian Creed indicates that the Lord's ascension is in no way our doing, but an article we are to believe. All festivals in the church are celebrated by Christians for the sake of faith, that it might be served by preaching. Just as it is not my work nor that of anyone else that God's Son is conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, so also it is not my doing that Christ rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and has sent the Holy Spirit."
Sermons of Martin Luther, The House Postils, 3 vols., II, p. 113.
"If one preaches about the comfort of faith, people become rude and malicious. But if one does not preach the comfort of faith, poor consciences are struck with fear and terror."
Sermons of Martin Luther, The House Postils, 3 vols., II, p. 114.
"I would much rather have people say that I preach too sweetly and that it hinders people from doing good works (even though my preaching does not do that), than that I failed to preach faith in Christ, and there was no help or consolation for timid, fearful consciences."
Sermons of Martin Luther, The House Postils, 3 vols., II, p. 115.
Another Strawy Epistle:
Perish Services Pleads for Business,
Third Time in Nine Months
From: Elton C. Stroh <ecstroh@frontier.com>
Date: Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 8:48 PM
Subject: Time for Crossroads?
To: Undisclosed Recipients <ecstroh@frontier.com>
Dear brother in Christ:
I am pleased to announce the launching of a new Crossroads Consulting Ministry web site www.timeforcrossroads.com .
After visiting the site, let me know if you have questions. Perhaps this would be a good time to begin a conversation.
Elton
Pastor Elton C. Stroh
Executive Director | Crossroads Consulting Ministry
Crossroads Consulting Ministry is directed by Pastor Elton C. Stroh. Pastor Stroh served as a WELS parish pastor for 24 years during which, under God, he launched a new congregation, served as senior pastor in a turnaround congregation, and was privileged to serve in a number of district and synodical positions. Most recently he served as a church consultant and directed WELS Parish Assistance – a consulting ministry that became a blessing to about 500 congregations with the assistance of both full- and part-time lead consultants and well over 100 associate consultants. Pastor Stroh also conducted the Turnaround Churches in the WELS research project.
Crossroads Consulting Ministry offers both a comprehensive and streamlined ministry planning process, both of which are custom designed around the needs and desires of client congregations. Each planning process includes the following: (1) analysis of current reality, (2) development of short- and long-range ministry goals, and (3) strategic implementation. Special services are also provided as requested. Examples of these services include developing multi-site ministries, coaching/mentoring, leadership development, organizational realignment, organizing staff for maximum effectiveness, teambuilding, and assisting with conflict management.
Kristen Koepsell - Minister of Worship
David Hochmuth - Minister of Spiritual Growth
Elton Stroh - Pastor/Crossroads Consulting
Randy Hunter - Pastor
Family: Married to Karen (Janke) for 24 years. Three children, Philip, Paige and Jack.Education: B.A. from Northwestern College ('81), M.Div. from Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary ('85)
Hobbies: Sailing, raquetball, walking with Karen, reading, writing
Quote: What do churches and snowflakes have in common? It's not the color. It's not always the beauty. It's that both are one-of-a-kind.
If you've visited a few churches you know all about it. The music, style, people, architecture, strengths and weaknesses are different from one to the next. God made it that way...He loves variety. At St. Andrew we're glad for that. It helps keeps "church" from becoming what it should never be: boring.
One thing, though, that never changes: God. He is. He just is. In His Word we find the unchanging solid things for life. It's a place to stand, a place of retreat and a place from which to launch. That, too, keeps church alive.
We invite you to discover both with us: God's changing church and God's changeless truths. We're curious also about your response. See, we've discovered people are like snowflakes, too!
Contact Pastor Hunter
Kristen Koepsell - Minister of Worship
As Staff Minister of Worship, Kristen is responsible for planning and implementing all worship opportunities at St. Andrew. She also oversees the large corps of worship volunteers who serve in many and varied capacities each week. Music is the largest part of the worship ministry at St. Andrew, but the worship ministry also includes lay readers, dramatic and visual arts, hospitality ministries and audio/visual tech support. Kristen works with Pastor Hunter to study biblical worship principles and practices, evaluate current worship practices at St. Andrew, and define future directions for St. Andrew's worship ministry.Kristen has been involved in worship ministry since she began singing in church with her Sunday school class at four years old, and greatly enjoys carrying on that part of her family's legacy. She graduated from Wisconsin Lutheran College in 2003 with a B.A. in Psychology and minors in Communication and Theology, and is currently pursuing Staff Ministry certification from Martin Luther College. When she's not writing services or running rehearsals, Kristen spends her time reading (her favorites being science fiction, classic literature and contemporary non-fiction), playing piano, writing music, running, and staying connected with friends and family.
Contact Kristen Koepsell
David Hochmuth - Minister of Spiritual Growth
As Minister of Spiritual Growth, Dave oversees many aspects of the congregation having to do with education and service to others. Prior to entering fulltime ministry, Dave was a civil engineer for 26 years. Having spent a significant portion of his life as a layperson, Dave understands the challenges of people trying to juggle multiple priorities and still keep Jesus as the central focus of their lives. He also brings to his ministry a love for God’s Word and sharing its truths with others.By way of biographical information, Dave was born in Tucson, Arizona, and grew up in Santa Clara, California. The first time through college he attended the University of California - Davis, graduating with a degree in engineering. He then attended graduate school at Colorado State in Ft. Collins, Colorado, graduating with a Master's degree in civil engineering. In 2003, he reentered college in the Staff Ministry certification program at Martin Lutheran College, New Ulm, Minnesota. He completed his certification in 2006.
In 1989, Dave married Mary Held, a graduate of then Dr. Martin Luther College. Mary currently serves as a teacher at Westside Christian School. After their marriage, God blessed the Hochmuths with three children: Esther, Sarah, and Andrew. They moved to Cross Plains, Wisconsin, to begin serving St. Andrew in 2007.
Contact Dave Hochmuth
Elton Stroh – Pastor/Crossroads Consulting
As Executive Director of Crossroads Consulting Ministry, Elton invests much of his time assisting WELS congregations with ministry planning and responding to other requests. Trained and experienced lead consultants (including Pastor Hunter), as well as associate consultants assist with this ministry on a part-time basis. Prior to launching Crossroads, Elton served as a parish pastor and directed WELS Parish Assistance – a consulting ministry that became a blessing to about 500 congregations. He also conducted the Turnaround Churches in the WELS research project.Elton received a B.A. degree from Northwestern College ('74), a M.Div. degree from Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary ('78), and is currently enrolled in a D.Min. program (leadership and ministry management). He is married to Gail, a horticulturist employed at The Bruce Company. Both were raised on farms and enjoy the outdoors. Elton and Gail have two married children, a fantastic daughter- and son-in-law, and eight grandchildren. One family resides in Pewaukee and the other in Wauwatosa, which makes family gatherings fairly convenient.
Contact Pastor Stroh
Visit Crossroads Consulting’s web site
***
GJ - Elton, babee. I am trying to be hip. I know - it does not work well. The same is true for Lutherans who try to be Babtist.
Here is my problem. You identified two schools you attended as WELS. Next you mentioned a DMin program, Elton. But where is it? Most people name the school instead of hiding it. Fess up.
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AC V said...
"Perhaps this would be a good time to begin a conversation."
Undisclosed Recipients: "Why did we get this spam?"
Objective Observers: "Hubris and need for an income."
Undisclosed Recipients: "We wish Crossroads would go away."
Objective Observers: "Perhaps this conversation should take place on the floor of the synod convention this summer."
June 2, 2011 7:24 AM
Delete
Blogger bored said...
What does snow and the Church Growth Movement have in common? Both are made up of flakes.
Did anyone else get the fullness of what Hunter is saying here? According to him, God made churches with their strengths AND weaknesses because God doesn't like to be bored. And here I would've thought sinful man was responsible for the weaknesses in churches. hm...
Randy, I'm remarkably bored by you because you seek to make God from an image of yourself--and call me crazy, but if we're going to remake God according to the strictures of contemporary populism I just don't think you are quite qualified.
By the by: The Latte Lutheran churches aren't just filled with young hipsters who only have themselves to blame if they lose their faith while sipping the double-whip false doctrine of Enthusiasm. I happen to know that in Hunter's congregation there are several cognitively vulnerable children--whose eternal souls are in the hands of Pastor Randy and their idiot parents.
Let us pray for these.
June 2, 2011 7:37 PM
Labels:
Church and Change
WELS Statistics Are Hollow
Bruce Church has left a new comment on your post "TS Asks Joe Krohn":
:
The whole CG paradigm is starting to make sense now. It's all about statistics, as we know. The reason CG pastors don't visit their flock is so they have fewer occasions to take people off the rolls.
The CG idea is to increase membership by adding people to the rolls even if they show minimal commitment, such as darkening the door of the church occasionally. The Lord's Supper is also observed less frequently so a person can skip it altogether for years and no one would notice, or at least that would be par for the course.
The CG pastors think, "Let the next pastor be the one to tell the church council the bad news." the CG pastor wants a raise, but his shrinking the congregation might get his salary docked. Also, they figure that they'll get a better call if people look at the congregational reports and see that their church has more and more members.
It took one CG pastor I knew 17 years to visit everyone in his congregation once, and it wasn't a large congregation by any standard. Also, when the elders finally figured out they couldn't contact someone, they sent persons letters over a period of two years warning them they were about to be taken off the rolls. Quite lenient.
What finally clued members in that something was wrong is when attendance started to drop, and the church had a hard time paying its bills. Then people started talking about how everyone had lost touch with people on the membership list. It was as though they were looking at the White Pages rather than the church membership list.
What this leads me to believe is that the WELS total membership stats are hollow. My first clue is that if you search WELS.net on the terms: WELS attendance statistics sunday worship, the last time anything is mentioned about attendance figures is 1995, and at that time they were declining ever since 1984. (Of course, besides for a few snippets, they hide the whole report from public view.)
The second clue is that Pr. Schroeder said, when reporting on the 2009 statistics, that in the last decade the only category that had a big drop was infant baptisms. So we are led to believe that the membership didn't drop, but it did become less fertile?! My theory is that the WELS shrunk in membership 1% per year same as the LCMS did, and the same as other churches are doing, but the CG method of not visiting members means that many have left the WELS and the pastors don't know it, and they don't want anyone else to know it for the aforementioned reasons.
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2009 WELS Statistical Report
http://www.wels.net/news-events/wels-statistics-released
Schroeder says, "Perhaps the most interesting thing to note is that over the past ten years, nearly all statistical categories have remained virtually unchanged, with one very clear exception. Infant baptisms have declined significantly from a decade ago, reflecting the fact that WELS families are having fewer children. This alone seems to account for our overall drop in total membership, as well as declining enrollment in some elementary and high school programs."
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2010 WELS Statistical Report
http://www.wels.net/news-events/synod-members-down-about-one-percent
The 2010 WELS Statistical Report has been released, and it shows the baptized membership in congregations across the synod is down by about 4,200, or about one percent, from 389,545 in 2009 to 385,321 in 2010.
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GJ - The figures are beefed up on the plus side, also by neglect. The best number for actual membership is - how many are there on a Sunday.
Labels:
ELCA; ELS; LCMS; WELS
Zorro - On the NNIV
I like those old newreels of land speed records being set on the Bonneville flats. At first, the speeding car is just a dot off in the distance. Then, all the sudden, it's tearing right on by. Then it's gone.
That reminds me of the current NNIV discussion within the WELS.
Translation committee members talked for maybe a three quarters of an hour at post-Easter pastoral conferences. Some articles were written in FIC. Now, onwards to adoption.
That didn't take long.
Pastors with even a shred of experience know it is wise to let people talk important matters out by allowing them time to express themselves. Common sense dicates that ought to be a matter of courtesy.
Manners, apparently, are dead as well as even more vital considerations.
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