Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Service We Receive the Gospel Through the Means of Grace

Cone has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":

The Divine Service isn't meant for heathens per se. It's meant for God's elect. God's elect yearn for the Sacraments because they know the importance of them. They don't yearn for gimmicks and shows and entertainment worship. Sadly, a lot of services are directed toward the "convert" or in other words towards the unbeliever. God tells us to be faithful and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Where do we get off thinking we need to add something to it? God knows his sheep and they will hear His voice. See the doctrine of election and especially this:

http://www.gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2011/05/freed-from-shopkeepers-prison-in.html 

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GJ - The Seeker Service, dubbed the Sneaker Service by Guy Purdue, is imported from Willow Creek Community Church. No crosses distinguish Willow Creek from a suburban mall. No cross inside annoys the seeker. Rev. Hybel is so wise that he teaches the Lutherans how to do things right.

WELS tried Friendship Sunday, another form of the Sneaker Service, under Valleskey's direction. That really worked well. Of course, it is not our business to decide what works well, but the Fuller alumni (like Valleskey, Kelm, Huebner, Olson) insist they can make things turn out right.

Everyone was wrong before these genius theologians went to Fuller Seminary and Willow Creek. If many of their seminary graduates have become Pentecostal, atheistic, or Babtists, that is not the fault of the faculty. Oh no. The obvious apostates "went too far." That is the ticket - learning from Fuller but not going too far with false doctrine, creating a hybrid.

I know what Lutherans need - Lutheran doctrine and Babtist revivals. But that is a contradiction. Those who worship in the name of Enthusiasm also believe in their Enthusiasm, whatever it might be - from miraculous cure services to incense smoke and mirrors.

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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":

So true...there was a time when I thought...this is the way we are going to do it! We are going to change WELS and Lutheranism for the better! We will help the Holy Ghost make it big!!!!

Bazingo...



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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":

Excellent comments from the Gottesdienst paper: [GJ - the link did not work for me]

"This can be seen by looking back at the pastoral guides of old. Oddly enough, they line up with
the ordination vows. These are the timeless, central, all consuming duties of the pastor. Johann Gerhard identifies seven duties in his early 17th century Loci theologici under the Ministry. (1) the preaching of the heavenly Word; (2) the administration of the sacraments; (3) praying for the flock entrusted to them; (4) the honorable management of their life and behavior; (5) the administration of church discipline; (6) the preservation of the rituals of the church; (7) the care of the poor and the
visitation of the sick. - p.13

Also, Chemnitz 50 years earlier re the pastor faithfully carrying out ecclesiastical ceremonies:

"Chemnitz also set the example that Gerhard would later follow when it came to the pastor's duty
toward faithfully leading the flock in worship. Listen to these words:

Part 3. With regard to the doctrine concerning ecclesiastical ceremonies (which we first said would be the third chief part of this examination), it is contained and set forth in the church order. Pastors should also be examined with regard to that very doctrine, so that they might both have the right understanding of it and be able rightly to explain it to their hearers. Likewise, one should inquire whether and how
they observe those ceremonies. Superintendents should also confer with pastors regarding marriage
orders, incorporated in the church order, that they might have the necessary understanding also of
them." - p.14

For many years at the Sausage Factory "Liturgics" class was a joke among the students. WELS has been at the receiving end of that punch line for generations.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":

From Gottesdienst, a quote from Gerhard:

"The sixth duty of ministers of the church involves the preservation of the rites of the church. To be sure, the institution of those rituals pertains not only to ministers of the church but also to the Christian magistrate and ought to be done with the consensus of the whole church. Nevertheless, this preservation is correctly assigned to ministers lest they either change or abrogate the rituals accepted by the public authority of the church on the basis of their personal whim. Rather, they should preserve them to protect harmony and promote good order. For although church rituals by nature are adiaphora since God’s Word neither commands nor forbids them, and though they do not of themselves constitute some portion of divine worship, nevertheless their abrogation ought not occur merely because of one party in the church." - p.15

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GJ - Gerhard denies UOJ, so he must be dismissed as a heretic.

WELS Worship Conference Reports

2138 has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":

Sermons from Day One:

The Palm Sunday sermon was by Pastor Treptow. My impression was that it was primarily a law-obedience sermon. Here were his main points: We should worship the King with unquestioning obedience (go get the donkey), with creativity (robes and palm branches), and with spontaneous shouts of praise (hosanna in the highest). Maybe one small reference to Christ’s cross. I didn’t hear anything about the depravity of my condition; rather, I heard about how we sometimes feel uncomfortable when we don’t want to sing out loudly.

He started off with a Bill Cosby reference about the Lone Ranger, and how Tonto would always “get the snot beat out of him.” He then compared that to how we also might want to tell Jesus not to ride into Jerusalem, because, “You’re going to get the snot beat out of you!” He made humorous references to the smell of a donkey, and how it might trample on someone’s good cloak, and how some didn’t know that there was a “dress code” that day.

I guess I didn’t hear why I was supposed to worship the King; rather, I should get over my inhibitions and creatively shout some praises without questioning why.

The Maundy Thursday sermon was by Pastor Zank. This sermon used Law and Gospel well. His main point: we are heirs of the Holy Supper, and ought to cherish its use. He discussed the Corinthian abuse of the Supper, but then discussed how Satan loves it when we also attend Communion bearing grudges and being otherwise unprepared, to our soul’s harm. God would have every right to take his Holy Supper from us, and not give it back until we showed ourselves worthy. He made very clear gospel proclamations, about how Christ’s death on the cross redeemed man from all his sins, including the sin of abusing the Supper. He said that Communion is a testament to the other people in the congregation—man, woman, child, visitor—of our unity.

He began with a story of his grandfather handing down to 10-year-old Joel a family heirloom—a golden pocket watch—that he had received from his grandfather, and that he hoped would get passed on to his grandson someday. He didn’t tell the whole story at once, but artfully weaved the story in and out of his sermon, telling how he abused that watch, and eventually broke it. He tied that into our own sins and abuse of Communion. While his parents fixed the watch and kept it until he was old enough to be trusted, we thank God that he doesn’t wait until we can be trusted before entrusting us with his Holy Supper. We receive the very forgiveness that we so desperately need in the Sacrament. It is not “more special” forgiveness than what we receive in Absolution, but it is “more of the same”—a strange way to put it, almost making it sound ordinary. But he was guarding against the abuse of puffing ourselves up with pride and turning Holy Communion into a ritual that makes us look good. It is only God pouring out his love and mercy on us poor, miserable sinners!

2138 has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":

Sermons from Days 2-3:

The Easter Morning sermon was by Pastor Cherney. “Be honest: what would you have expected to see if you had come to the tomb?” So begins the sermon. We put ourselves in the women’s shoes as they travel to the tomb that first Easter morning. He talks about some of the things that some go to church to hear—how the church can fix their families, their finances, their communities, etc. “And after all that fails to work, then people are right back in the sludge pit they were in before.” Rather, when they come to church, tell them something really amazing—He is risen.

The Easter Evening sermon was by Pastor Degner. Jesus used the powerful Word of God to “connect the dots” from the Old Testament to his cross and resurrection for the Emmaus disciples that Easter evening. He spent quite a bit of time extolling God’s Word and its power, sharper than any two-edged sword. And yet, are pastors afraid to use it on the delinquent member? When we visit, do we make small talk and talk about everything else, but forget to preach God’s Word? Rather, try going back every week for eight weeks, and preach God’s Word. He closed by mentioning how he’s beginning to see why the pastors in their 60s still have that “fire,” and why he does too—with the Word of God, we need not fear.

The sermon for Good Shepherd Sunday was by Pastor Patterson. We long to be there in heaven! Started with a story about an elderly woman with lots of heartache—“why am I still here, pastor?” He stated in his sermon that everyone will not go to heaven; only those who believe. He ended his sermon, with something like, “We will keep holding on to the Shepherd’s hand, and be the best sheep we can be. Amen.” He did not stand in the pulpit, but walked back and forth in front of the altar as he spoke.

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2138 has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":

Quotes from “Recruiting Choir Members and Vocalists” by Professor Tiefel: “Public worship that works well for both nurture and outreach includes: excellent preaching; a suitable worship space; friendly and engaged people; a solid repertoire of hymns, old and new, which proclaim the gospel clearly and which the people sing accurately and enthusiastically; the stability of a liturgical framework without the staleness of identical worship each week; a unified service that reflects a seasonal emphasis and highlights a specific facet of the gospel in both spoken word and vibrant song; the saving gospel set to a variety of musical forms from different times and places within the Holy Christian Church.”

Questions: Do we cater our worship to visitors in the name of “outreach”? Are “friendly and engaged people” overemphasized in today’s church? Is the proclamation of God’s Word in the liturgy ever “stale”?


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AC V has left a new comment on your post "WELS Worship Conference Reports":

"He did not stand in the pulpit, but walked back and forth in front of the altar as he spoke."

Because it's about ME and how INTERESTING and ENGAGING I I I I am! Just like the TV preachers, Enthusiasts all.

Banned by the Babtists - Loved by WELS: The NNIV

2138 has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":

Notes on the WELS Conference on Worship, Music, & the Arts:

From page 30 of the booklet: “The committee appointed to study the 2010 revisions in the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible is recommending to the synod convention that this Bible translation continue to be used by WELS. The lessons selected for worship at the conference will be read from the revised NIV.”

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Banned by the Babtists - Loved by WELS: The NNIV":

I guess the NNIV in WELS is a done deal then? Eh?

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GJ - Questioning that decision is equal to attacking Holy Mother WELS. Raising the issue implies that the indivual reads Ichabod, another crime.

WELS Convention Poster

Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdom Today

Not a Photoshop

Saturday, July 23, 2011

Conjoined Twins or Two Headed Monster

Daniel Baker said...
"Considering the theological landscape of the WELS, I think that Intrepid Lutherans has been doing a fantastic job. I support the organization wholeheartedly.

I think it is a bit disingenuous to imagine that the issue of UOJ is the one thing causing the WELS to slide into apostasy, with the other matters being mere symptoms of this root problem. Frankly, the WELS pastors I know personally do not speak of justification in UOJ terms, but they have still fallen prey to the dogmatic and practical ideologies of American Evangelicalism.

Also, I would agree that the quote you reference from Pr. Spencer's sermon is rather sloppy, but I also know that he has said as much himself. Even the best of us slip up every now and again."

July 22, 2011 11:06 PM

As I thought about Daniel's comment during my morning run, it made me wonder if UOJ is the root cause.  It's poor representation of the Gospel certainly exacerbates many problems like a properly balanced teaching of Law and Gospel.  In fact I would go so far to say that UOJ does away with the Law entirely.  And we know that it is unscriptural to separate the Law from the Gospel.  Now you have preaching that is all Gospel; how to live, works to show your faith, motivational speeches instead of the preaching of repentance and the remission of sins and so forth...in other words using the Gospel as Law.  So for all of the problems that manifest in so many other areas, it is not disingenuous to make such a claim.

So what else could it be?  Since we are all ill with Original Sin and susceptible to suggestion and temptation, it would have to be Enthusiasm; when the devil tells us that we will be like God and know all things.  In other words we know God as well as He knows Himself and are just as smart and know what is right for us.  Out of this enthusiasm is born UOJ.  In so many places it makes the claim of explaining the mysteries of God when in fact all we have is what He has chosen to reveal to us in His Word and in our reality.  Enthusiasm then begins to feed off of UOJ since all are justified and forgiven and even saved as some preach and UOJ makes us think we are all the better for it.  I don't know about ELCA, but I know the conservative bodies still preach faith.  But the official statements are skewed enough that in time faith will go out the window if trends of the last 50 years or so are any indication.

So in summary, one would have to say that Enthusiasm is the root cause of UOJ and so many other problems in worship and practice that must be rooted out.  But because of the nature of the false teaching of the Gospel it is a bit of a different animal and has become at least in my mind an evil conjoined twin with Enthusiasm.

As far as sloppy preaching goes...yes people slip.  But we never let it slide when it comes to truthful preaching.  Ever.  There is a wealth of 'slips' in the WELS essay files that remain.  What does that say?  A picture paints a thousand words.  When Pastor Spencer says such things you wonder.  If he admitted it was sloppy I haven't found the comment.  I contacted him privately and never got that impression.

4 comments:

Daniel Baker said...

I would agree that Enthusiasm is perhaps a root cause of UOJ. The over-arching apostasy in the WELS stems from a lack of trust and emphasis on the Means of Grace, particularly the Sacraments, and an undue emphasis on our ability and work in the processes of justification and sanctification. This is manifest in various ways, including the evaporation of the Gospel and the preaching of only Law (I am much more familiar with this than I am with somehow preaching Gospel as Law). I understand that you are familiar with a heretic that promotes the extremist view of UOJ, and in that sense you have another perspective on the matter than I do. But in the heart of the WELS, Milwaukee, I have only heard UOJ promoted one time, and that was very recently and very privately (I can't recall even hearing the doctrine espoused in school!). This is why I am hesitant to assume that UOJ is really the driving heresy in the WELS. Like I said, for you it obviously is a pertinent issue, because of the blasphemer who erroneously excommunicated you. And in that light I encourage you to continually fight against his unbiblical and unconfessional expression of Justification. But I wouldn't make it the driving point of your crusade against the WELS in total, and I certainly wouldn't attack faithful pastors like those at Intrepid Lutherans.

July 23, 2011 4:06 PM

Daniel Baker said...

Also, I like your title - it gave me a chuckle. However, I would think of UOJ as one of many slimy tentacles under the head of False Doctrines that threaten the WELS.

July 23, 2011 4:07 PM

LutherRocks said...

My only crusade is to be exonerated for standing against false doctrine. Time will tell which side the WELS stands. I have been truthful in all my statements on the blog concerning questionable things. If calling out a mistake is construed as attacking...well this would be the root cause of other problems in WELS. Sometimes you just have to put on man pants. :)

July 23, 2011 4:21 PM

Daniel Baker said...

Indeed. As I thought about it more, arguing about the "root cause" is ultimately foolish. In reality, we know what the root cause of the apostasy in the WELS is - our enemy, the devil, who roams around like a roaring lion looking for souls to devour. Thank God that we have the shield of Faith to defend us from the enemy's flaming arrows and the life-giving Spirit Who empowers us to stand firm against his assaults.

July 23, 2011 4:48 PM   --- LPC has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...": I do not think it is disingenuous. For I too can point to my experience which negates Daniel's experience with his WELS pastors. My opinion is that it is UOJ that is the root cause, ideas do have consequences. Under UOJ is a paradigm - a philosophical ideology and it permeates other areas of one's theology. UOJ ideology is a sophist ideology. It speaks JBFA when you speak to UOJers on the subjective side, but they also will speak universalistically as they interpret the atonement to be equal with justification. UOJ is a paradigm, it is world view and that is the reason why it is a wicked teaching because it engulfs one's interpretation of the world - antinomianism in one way and then legalism in another way - this is a sophist multi-headed monster. UOJ's paradigm is Calvinistic Rationalism. That was how Calvin and his gang reasoned - they saw people being baptized with no change of life on the subject and they concluded the Sacrament gave nothing or it only regenerates the elect.UOJers believe that for faith to happen, what faith has to hold on must have happened first. Again that is a rationalism - it is not Scripture speaking, it is the mind speaking in such conclusions. LPC --- Daniel Baker has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...": Your experience does not negate mine, LPC, it's just different. On the other hand, my experience does negate your hypothesis; namely, the UOJ is *the* root cause. If it was the root cause of Evangelical apostasies, then it would stand to reason that the WELS pastors with which I am familiar who have fallen prey to Reformed tendencies wholeheartedly support UOJ. In fact, however, they do not, and flatly reject its tenets. As such, UOJ cannot be the root cause of their doctrinal and practical errors.

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GJ - Some examples of WELS/LCMS/ELS Enthusiasm are: receptionism in Holy Communion, women pastors, Church Growthism, unionism, Puseyism, doctrinal indifference.

Sometimes I think WELS is more hysterical about UOJ, but then I see posts by McCain, Webber, and others.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...":

Lito has identified and stated the issue correctly.

Contrary to Daniel's contention the apostasy in the (W)ELS is not simply an undue emphasis on our work in Justification, it is false doctrine being officially taught and confessed from the top to the bottom. Any emphasis on man's work in his justification (works righteousness) is false doctrine and believing that faith is a work of ours ((W)ELS official teaching of UOJ), that we must believe that we're already forgiven, justified and declared righteous by God's divine verdict for God's divine verdict to be true and beneficial is false doctrine and both separate the confessor of such false doctrines from Christ, the forgiveness of sins, justification, salvation and Christ's Church. Daniel's statements soft peddle the hard truth and taints his view of the false central doctrine the (W)ELS Synod teaches, (W)ELS demands every member confess the false doctrine of UOJ if they do not want to be hypocrites in their Synod and churches.

Daniel calls (W)ELS Pastor Patterson a heretic who promotes and extremist view of UOJ. I agree he is a heretic for teaching a false gospel. Your entire synod teaches the same thing he boldly taught and enforced. There's an abundance of (W)ELS essays given and defended, based on (W)ELS official doctrine, teaching the exact thing you call him a heretic for. Although a heretic waring against Christ and His Church he is at least faithful to his Synod and confession. More than can be said for the majority of clergy, elders etc who sit on the fence waiting to see who will win.

UOJ is the official doctrinal confession of the central article by the (W)ELS. Their own teaching shows that it displaces Justification by Faith Alone. This makes the (W)ELS unChristian. Anyone who is faithful to their Synod membership and Synod confession concerning this chief article also rejects Christ and God's way to righteousness, without works, by faith alone. Does anyone need to publicly confess this false doctrine in order for it's acceptance in their heart to have an effect? No. How many rejected this false gospel when DP Buchholz gave his pro UOJ essay - the very doctrine Patterson boldly defended. How many (W)ELSians are publicly contending against the recent excommunications? How many are leaving the (W)ELS since they all excommunicated Rick and Joe? Not to speak of the (W)ELS financing the abortion of babies etc etc.

Daniel, any doctrine which when perverted separates the confessor from Christ is the driving issue behind apostasy and worse, whether you acknowledge it or not.

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...":

Daniel,


The question I ask from you is that how do you know that they do not support UOJ? If they do reject UOJ which you claim that they do, yet which your Synod supports - in other Synodical statements, then why are they there i.e, still in WELS? What are they? Secret anti-UOJers? If they are still crypto-antiUOJers maybe they are still not fully convinced of the potent poison of UOJ. In short, how do you know they are not playing politics with the issue?

False doctrine has many faces, the devil does not give you a warning, the thief does not make himself known that he is a thief and gives you a warning that he will plunder your home tonight at 2AM. I would say that is a bit naive.

I will however grant that pastors do not have a real handle on the issues of UOJ and when presented at more length as to what it implies, they may step back from it. However, this disconnect may still be lurking somewhere. If JBFA in its purity is not an issue and the main big one for your pastor friends, then I'd say they are numb by something somewhere.

JBFA is not just an important topic along side other topics, I should think it is the main big topic if I were an anti-UOJ pastor in WELS.


LPC

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...":

Pr. Greg,

...UOJ, but then I see posts by McCain, Webber, and others

These people who have their own groupies, UOJ is a settled matter for them. The case is closed so any one who opens up and challenges UOJ, you get them jumping up and down to an obvious heretic.

Re:Secret anti-UOJers.

I'd say it is now time to stand in the open and sign one's name against an understanding of Justification which is false.

The problem it seems is that it is the Laymen that are more courageous on being anti-UOJ, while the Pastors who should know better are the wussies. Certainly I have not seen them in Ichabod (though perhaps they communicate with you behind the scenes).


LPC

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm Is the Two-Headed Calf Called Lutherdo...":

Joe is right. The new "normal" is opposed to Christ and His Word and Will.

It doesn't take active participation to engage in the spreading of false doctrine and practice. It simply requires not doing anything at all.

The central teaching of the New Age Religion is that everyone is a god, if they believe it or not, they are all gods. How much more godlike can you be than to dictate, in the practice of UOJ, when God was talking about Objective Justification and when he was talking about Subjective Justification in Scripture. Hoe much more godlike can you be than to dictate God's verdicts and say they have no effect - nay, they aren't true until the individual believes it. How much more godlike than to dictate when God meant the "wider" sense of this Word, He meant the "narrower" sense of this Word. How much more godlike can you be than to dictate the that the new Pastoral office your "Worship committee" just created is restricted to these duties, responsibilities as opposed to Christ's list of responsibilities and requirements of the one Office He created. How much more godlike can you be than to manipulate the removal of a called pastor from his parish; a parish which just voted their approval and confirmed his call as Christ's stead in their church. How much more godlike can you be than to manipulate the Word and right practice to entice, attract and convert men into the church. How much more godlike can you be....well, they're surprising us every day in their vain attempts to be their own little gods.

Good Insights about WELS Politics, Doctrine:The Infallible Doctrinal Pussycat

From the Forgiveness Without Faith Blog, Aka The Intrepids

Pastor Spencer,

I'm certainly glad to hear that the synod's presidium has not done anything to dissuade your efforts. I'm extremely troubled, though, to hear that you have been pressured and intimidated by more than one district president. That is truly a travesty.

The more I learn about our synod's structure, the more problems I see inherent within the office of district president, including:

1. District presidents seem to have near total autonomy within their districts, with few if any checks or balances. The synod presidium does not have the ability to step in when need be to correct an erring DP. Really, no one in the entire synod has the ability to correct an erring DP.

2. District presidents are charged with making difficult and sometimes controversial decisions in order to maintain confessional doctrine and practice, and yet district presidents must stand for re-election every few years, which would lead them not to do anything controversial.

3. District presidents should be, above all else, solid theologians. It doesn't seem that a popular vote is the best way to identify theologians within a district. Rather, a popular vote will tend to elect men for far more superficial reasons.

Mr. Adam Peeler

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GJ - The Changers slowly moved all their guys into positions of power, and that includes the Doctrinal Pussycats. The synod politicians seem spineless and putty-brained, but that is their trick to delay, block, and obfuscate all issues that threaten the Changers. Watching Buchholz do nothing about Jeff Gunn, due to his "concern for the souls involved," is like staring at a glacier.

Look at all of Englebrecht's tricks in the Anything Goes district. He did everything possible to support Glende and Ski, even changing the CP and ducking the big meeting. CP must mean Circuit Plagiarist now.

One must listen to the double-talk and separate the real story from the smoke. For example, John Lawrenz, as the president of MLS, long ago, used all the talking points about WELS being tough on doctrine, implacable about fellowship, etc. At the same time he was a Church and Change leader and working against everything he promoted as the essence of WELS. The clearest example is serving as president of the school while declaring on the floor of the district convention that "We" (the school) are willing to serve in whatever capacity the synod declares. That meant he would gladly serve as the Judas goat in giving up prep school status.

I had already challenged Lawrenz about his authoring of cell group material for WELS. The Judas Iscariot speech clinched it. Lately he has been at the portable Asian seminary. He installed Steve Witt, a founder of Church and Change, as the new president. When Lawrenz chirps on the Church and Change list-serve, Kudu Don Patterson purrs - "Pure gold, John."

The Changers work at several levels in WELS. They own the Conference of Pussycats, both colleges, the Sausage Factory, FICL, and various para-church groups. They use these contacts to funnel money into Cornerstone, a joint LCMS-WELS scam that no one seems to notice or address. I would love to see a list of congregations they have broken down with their insane brick-and-mortar grow-ti-vation plans. Schuller is bankrupt: the template does not work in a dying sect.

I seldom say much about SP Schroeder, although he is a disappointment for many. Nevertheless, he is a figurehead, like all Synod Presidents. About 90% of the clout comes from the laity and pastors. If they choose to sit on their hands, look dumb, and do nothing, the SP can do nothing in terms of actual "doing."

What Schroeder fails to do is teach. He cannot be considered a Lutheran pastor or teacher, because he does not proclaim sound doctrine and repudiate false doctrine. His messages are generic Protestant, enough to calm the base without offending the Daddy Warbucks of Church and Change. Others take their cue from him - stay Methodist, remain irenic, ruffle not the feathers.

I continue to believe that any layman, pastor, or leader can have an enormous impact by studying the efficacious Word and applying it. The supposed bad impact is always going to be good, if we believe God is gracious, that all things work for the good for those who love Him.

We are not Lutherans until we can agree with Luther about the "holy, blessed cross" instead of saying, "But I wanted the chairmanship of the summer camping committee."

I have known many clergy who have emasculated themselves for the sake of the Kingdom (Matthew 19:12) - the Kingdom of Synod. They look like capons today - fat, stupid, and ready for Christmas dinner.

WELS Church Lady - UOJ, No Way

WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "Luther - On Faith":

Pastor Nate Bourman! Yes, he is one of our younger pastors. Someone assigned Pastor Bourman to be an essay presenter, yet the wording of the conference paper is unlike his organized sermons. Most of us may remember that this essay was delayed in its posting on the SCD website. UOJ

(sic) goes against scripture. Only believers are regarded as righteous.



I could quote Romans 3:22-24; however, these two get the most publicity on the subject. I will, instead, quote from The Book of Psalms KJV: Ps. 130:3-4 "If Thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with Thee, that Thou mayest be feared." Ps. 31:1 "In Thee, O Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: Deliver me in Thy righteousness." Ps. 143:2 "And enter not unto judgment with Thy servant: for in Thy sight shall no man living be justified."

Romans chapter four is what I rename the Second Book of Abraham. Even the "masonic" NIV says the righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.(Rom.3:22)Also, from the NIV, the first words of Romans chapter five: "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of the Lord."

I borrowed the Psalm quotes from J.T. Mueller's "My Church and Others" booklet. There was NO NIV back then, so Brother J.T. had to settle for the King James Bible. Sadly, Mueller borrowed from F. Pieper when composing his Dogmatics from the 1930s.(Mueller threw in the term objective justification, but no guilt free saints in hell heresy) Fortunately, from the first printing in the 1920s to the last printing in the 1960s, "My Church and Others" retained its purity to the Scriptures and Lutheran Confessions.

It still puzzles me when I think of the time that I asked my pastor about universal objective justification(sic). He looked at me strangely and said, "Where did you hear something like that?" I love the WELS, but we cannot protect the synod when bad doctrine is being unaddressed.

In Christ,
Rebecca

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Luther - On Faith":

(W)ELS on the withered hand of faith -

Pastor Nate Bourman
But, sadly, Satan worked and continues to work within the Lutheran ranks. Some wanted to make justification an act of God “at the moment of faith” and so they denied and even rejected universal, objective justification. Page 4
http://scdwels.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/justification-paper.pdf

The Jungkuntz disciples are the most significant destructive influence 

in the Big Four Today - ELCA, LCMS, WELS, ELS.

President Mark Zarling
Faith is merely the receiving hand into which God pours out His grace through the Gospel. Our dogmaticians spoke of faith as the organon leptikon. Faith does nothing more than receive the forgiveness which is offered in the Gospel. It is not a condition we fulfill nor is it a cause of forgiveness. We are already forgiven. God's message of justification in Christ is there whether we believe it or not. Faith then receives the blessings. Unbelief rejects them, so unbelief will be damned. The reason there is confusion in regard to the role of faith is rather simple. Satan is always trying to get men to pat themselves on the back. The opinio legis inherent in every old Adam likes to think that it can somehow assist in working out salvation. Page 7

We dare not teach that faith comes first, or that faith is all-important. Whenever I must examine my faith, I find it weak and full of doubts. Faith gives no solid comfort. It turns man to look inward at his own heart, rather that at the sure promises of God as found in Scripture. There are times when I might doubt that I even have faith. However, there is nothing uncertain in the truth of justification. Sin is taken away, forgiven, and swallowed up in the empty tomb. Christ has accomplished forgiveness and salvation. It is true, even if I doubt it, even if I don't believe it. Page 11
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/ZarlingJustification.pdf

Siebert W. Becker
It is crystal clear that the announcement of forgiveness to all the world comes first; then faith builds on that announcement and finds comfort and assurance in it. Page 2

 German Missouri catechism, Gausewitz (Syn Conference President) Catechism, Missouri KJV Catechism. Was Becker a liar or just ignorant? Apt to teach?

The doctrine of universal justification is often ridiculed with the argument that if God really forgives sins prior to faith then the Lutheran doctrine of justification by faith becomes meaningless. Such conclusions demonstrate a rationalistic spirit that consciously or unconsciously refuses to be guided by Scripture alone. Page 12

Faith does nothing more than accept the forgiveness proclaimed in the Gospel. It is not a condition we must fulfill before we can be forgiven. It is not a cause of forgiveness on account of which God forgives us. The forgiveness comes first. Faith is merely the response to the message. God says to us, “Your sins are forgiven.” Page 12
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BeckerJustification.PDF

District President Pastor Jon Buchholz
We must understand that faith doesn’t create anything new. Faith doesn’t bring anything into existence that doesn’t already exist. Faith doesn’t cause something to happen. Faith simply grasps—trusts—something that already is in place. Faith grasps the objective reality of God’s completed salvation in Christ.

9 This very important truth—that faith is appropriative and not causative—can be illustrated thus: A sports fan may say, “I believe that my team will win the World Series this year.” Such faith does not bring about the desired outcome. The person’s belief doesn’t cause anything to happen.

Christian faith appropriates and holds onto the reality of God’s justification completed in Christ. It does not cause justification or forgiveness to take place. It simply grasps God’s justification that is already a reality. Page 5
http://www.wlsessays.net/node/390

Joe Krohn Asks the Intrepids To Be...Intrepid

Luther Rocks

Standing on the Word of God in Worship and Practice

Friday, July 22, 2011

A Little Less Talk and a Little More Action

Revelation 3:15-17 (NIV '84)
"¹⁵ I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! ¹⁶ So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. ¹⁷ You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."

Intrepid Lutherans are patting themselves on the back today for 'rocking SS Good Ship WELS '.  The vessel may have done a bit of a tippy tippy, but that is only because a few folks may have changed positions aboard deck; albeit becoming visible; hardly 'rockaboatus'.

I do applaud their efforts, but at the same time take issue regarding the bullet point of  "our central teaching, "Justification by Faith Alone"." and the sloppy teachings that emanate from a sloppy confession.  Hardly.  Take a look in the WELS essay files.  So many writings back up "This We Believe"; WELS statement of faith.  Many of the listed bullet points would go away if WELS truly confessed Justification by Faith Alone; a true rendering of the Gospel.  And as far as the Intrepids go, they are enablers.  Whenever the discussion got too intense and a 'get off the fence' moment was presented with scriptural backing, the situation was diffused.  Pity.

Here is just one example of muddying the waters just enough so no one gets in trouble; Pastor Spencer's Easter 2011 sermon (an excerpt):

"Christ is the savior of the world, that is, He has covered the sins of all people of all time, yes, even those who reject Him. No one goes to hell because of their sins. Those that go to hell do so because of their unbelief. This is why He commanded that His Gospel be preached to everyone everywhere until the end of time. There is no reason for anyone to be damned. All sins have been paid for. All can be saved."

Although Pastor Spencer rallied quite nicely in the above quote, his middle statement that 'no one goes to hell because of their sins, but because of their unbelief' is a logical fallacy and opens the door for sloppy Justification teachings.  Actually they do go to hell because of their sins and the greatest of these is the unforgivable sin; the rejection of the Holy Ghost.  (See Mark 3:28-30; Matt. 12: 30-32; Luke 12:8-10; Heb. 6:4-8; Heb. 10:26-29)

These sloppy teachings manifest themselves at Holy Word Austin with Pastor Patterson teaching that all sins were forgiven before the Holy Ghost ever enacted faith.  We took issue with this and were summarily excommunicated...for the same confession they are stating in their bullet point and which Pastor Rydecki opined here.

One of their own does not confess the official WELS confession that all are justified, righteous and forgiven regardless of faith and I have his email saying so.  Here are a couple excerpts:

"So to say that God justifies the ungodly does not mean that he has justified all people.  The tense of the very (sic - verb) also speaks to that.  Those who teach the extreme of UOJ want to say that God already justified all people.  Past tense.  This is a misunderstanding.  Christ already died for all people.  Christ already redeemed all people. Yes, true.  Christ has offered a pure offering to the Father that has satisfied his wrath against sin.  Yes, also that.  Forgiveness has already been acquired by Christ for the world.  Yes, but that forgiveness is in Christ and should not be spoken of with respect to those who are not in Christ.  Christ is the Savior of the world in the same way that the bronze serpent was the Savior of the whole Israelites community.  All who looked up at it were saved from the snake bites.  All who look to Christ in faith are saved (forgiven, justified, etc.)."

And:

"The Ohio Synod viewed faith as man's part in the equation.  God has met us halfway in Christ.  Now man's part is to believe it, and in order for man to do that, the Holy Spirit helps him a lot through the Means of Grace, but still, man must act on those Spirit-given powers in order to believe.  That's wrong.  Our faith is 100% the work of God in man, not man's work at all.  As Luther said in Bondage of the Will, "No one can possibly believe this.  But the elect do."  This is all God's work.

We ought not speak of people as being already justified before they are born.  The Confessions equate Justification with Regeneration.  Period.  And the Scriptures do the same.  Justification/The forgiveness of sins are Third Article doctrines, not Second Article doctrines.  The confusion is this, that when some people say "God has justified the world," they mean, "Christ died for the sins of the world."  But our sloppy use of the word "justify" has caused all sorts of problems.  The latter is "redemption," not "justification."  Some go so far as to say that God imputes the righteousness of Christ to all people.  This directly contradicts the passage you quoted above that says that "to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited (imputed) as righteousness.""

I also understand from a WELS layperson that one of theirs also has the ear of the Synod President.  All the more for a call to action.

May the Lord's will be done always and at the upcoming convention.

Kyrie Eleison!
***

GJ - I am trying to understand the WELS Intrepid love affair with the late Walter Martin. I have watched Martin on TV, and he is good at hunting cows with a bazooka. Given the apostasy in all Evangelical groups, even by their own standards, his work did not meet with much success.

The best conservative Baptist apologist is not even close to the truths of the Bible, especially about faith itself.

A Baptist denies that a baby can have faith, that baptism is efficacious through the Word. In fact, all Baptists denounce infant baptism as Roman Catholic heresy. Similar objections are raised about Holy Communion.


So Walter Martin is a good Baptist while Ed Stetzer is a bad Baptist. If that is a confessional Lutheran stance, I fail to see the discernment.

I believe WELS pastors are attracted to the Baptists, like lint to Velcro, because UOJ has no Gospel in it.

Can any reader imagine the Intrepids quoting one of 6,000+ posts on this blog? Or linking it?

But the Intrepids get sensitive about Mark and Avoid Jeske having two synods, even while simultaneously linking all kinds of LCMS sources, including Matt Harrison's PR team on Issues Etc.

New Design To Replace Melted Gateway Arch

McDonald's has offered this alternative to the Gateway Arch. They will take down the melted arch, and double the new version. The only difference is the color, which will be a sunny yellow.

St. Louis Arch Melting in Torrid Heat-Wave

Officials tried taking loads of dry ice up in the passenger elevator, to cool their famous landmark.

Attention has shifted to re-naming the Gateway Arch.

The pretzel industry, long dormant in this Germanic city, may rebound with a symbol of their product etching the skyline.

Luther - On Faith

Luther Quotations on Faith

April 14, 2011 by Rick

The following are five quotations from Martin Luther on the subject of faith.  They are taken from What Luther Says, compiled by Ewald M. Plass, Volume I, pages 477-479, paragraphs 1412-1415, and 1420.
Luther contended that salvation is the free gift of God, and therefore could be received only though faith, and that faith itself is a gift of God.  Says Plass regarding paragraph 1412: Faith is “a work performed in us rather than by us.”  Faith is a divine work that produces all the other works below it.
Paragraph 1412:

Faith is full of life and power.  It is not an idle thought.  It does not float on the surface of the heart, as a goose does on water; but it is as water that has been warmed by fire.  Although such water remains water, it is no longer cold but warm and, therefore, an entirely different sort of water.  So faith, which is the work of the Holy Spirit, makes the mind and the thinking of a person different and thereby makes an entirely new man of him.  Faith, then, is an active, independent (difficilis), and powerful thing; and if we want truly to evaluate it, we should call it an influence (passio) on us rather than an act (actio) performed by us.  For it changes our souls and our views.

Paragraph 1413:

Do not think lightly of faith.  It is a work that is of all works the most excellent and the most difficult.  Through it alone you will be saved, even though you were obliged to do without all other works.  For it is the work of God, not of man, as Paul teaches (Ephesians 1:19).  The other works He performs with our co-operation and through us; this alone He works within us and without our co-operation (sine nobis).

Paragraph 1414:

Faith is a divine work which God requires of us; but He Himself must give us the strength to do it.

Paragraph 1415:

It is a mistake to place faith and its work alongside other virtues and works.  Faith should be elevated above all and regarded, as it were, as a sort of constant and general influence above all works, through the movement and activity of which everything that is in man is sent into motion, works, is vigorous and pleasing.

Paragraph 1420:

A Christian modestly says to God: Dear Lord, although I am sure of my position, I am unable to sustain it without Thee.  Help Thou me, or I am lost. — He is indeed certain of his position, as Peter was on the water (Matthew 14:29).  Peter could not be more certain than he was.  The water was supporting him.  He saw no obstacle in his way.  But when the wind came rushing on, he saw what was lacking in him.  This must be taken well to heart.  For although we are sure of our position, have Scripture, and are covered and armed with clear passages in the very best way, yet our security depends on the power, the will, and the might of God, who protects us and defends us against the devil, our adversary and greatest enemy.

But this happens that God may make us determined and yet keep us fearful, so that we are always filled with concern and cry to Him: O Lord, help us, and increase our faith (Luke 17:5); for without Thee we are undone.  At heart we should always feel as if we were just beginning to believe today, and every day we should feel as if we had never heard the Gospel before.  We must believe anew every day.

The St. John Lutheran Church Pipe Organ Recital: This Sunday at 3 PM

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Tudored by History: We Need To Know Our Past. WELS...":

Several years after the WELS kicked out St. John, I was talking with my former pastor about this beautiful church. He made the comment, "well, it is just too bad that St. John's cannot get back into the synod". As Rod Serling would say - "submitted for your consideration". In my opinion, what happened to St. John's is symbolic, if not a microcosm of the direction that the dying WELS is taken. The WELS leadership could care less about Bading and Brenner now that they have Fuller to look up to. I am bringing along a friend of mine, who is blind, to the organ recital. Although he is a jaded ex-Roman Catholic, he appreciates good music, good acoustics, grand church architecture, and has a collection of organ recitals that were recorded live at different churches. Through the conversations that I have had with him, he knows more about the Lutheran Church than most WELS laity. I am looking forward to this Sunday.

For Those Whose Mothers Died Young

Nancy Hanks

If Nancy Hanks
Came back as a ghost,
Seeking news
Of what she loved most,
She'd ask first
"Where's my son?
What's happened to Abe?
What's he done?"

"Poor little Abe,
Left all alone.
Except for Tom,
Who's a rolling stone;
He was only nine,
The year I died.
I remember still
How hard he cried."

"Scraping along
In a little shack,
With hardly a shirt
To cover his back,
And a prairie wind
To blow him down,
Or pinching times
If he went to town."

"You wouldn't know
About my son?
Did he grow tall?
Did he have fun?
Did he learn to read?
Did he get to town?
Do you know his name?
Did he get on?"

- Rosemary and Stephen Vincent Benet

***

GJ - I do not mean to provoke anti-Lincoln comments. I grew up in Illinois, where Lincoln is on the license plates, in an area where Lincoln served briefly in the Blackhawk War. Our college library had a collection of Lincoln materials. He was a saint, in other words.

Someone posted on Facebook about a mother who died relatively young. I know several people who had that experience, probably the most dominating event in their lives.

The poem is quite touching, a good reminder to consider mothers while they are still alive. Mine lived to be 90 plus, active until the end, still composing poems on the fly as we wheeled her around the nursing home. She even led the nursing staff in a rousing singing of "God Bless America." When we did not sing loud enough, she made us start again. I think she was remembering her teaching days in WWII.

We sang "Don't Fence Me In" with the rest of the nursing home. I thought nothing of the song. When it was finished, she said, "That's me."

I thought, "I got this from both sides of the family."

Some have absent or disappearing dads, and some fathers die young. I remember my neighborhood friend losing his dad while we were in high school. It was a sudden heart attack while painting in a closed garage. My friend became a cardiologist.

Runaway fathers make their sons very insecure and perhaps far too attached to Holy Mother Synod. I imagine they also have great ambivalence about their mothers. Was it her fault? His fault? Both?

I worked at my father's shop, from age 8. The early years meant a few hours on Saturday. Later I worked full-time during the summers. That gave me an introduction to quality ingredients, perfectionism, and working long hours.

WELS Convention Agenda, My Version

New capital funds appeal - "Bet you can't hit me with a quarter."
B. A. Bumb, Executive Director

Opening service - a sober James P. Tiefel will pick up a New NIV, open it carefully, and throw it against the nearest wall.

The convention will only sing Lutheran hymns from The Lutheran Hymnal.

Leaders and members of Church and Change will be judged to have excommunicated themselves through their obstinate opposition to Lutheran doctrine and practice.

Paul Calvin Kelm will throw the rock band instruments off the stage, screaming, "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations." Even then, he will not be allowed back into the synod.

The faculties of The Sausage Factory, Mary Lou College, and Willowcreek's Liberal College will join hands, weeping, asking for instruction in Lutheran doctrine. People will look around the hall awkwardly, wondering who is left to teach them.

Due to demand, the Gausewitz catechism will cost $50 each on the secondary market.

The Little Sect on the Prairie will break fellowship with WELS, saying to the public media, "We have always been loosey-goosey, but those Wisconsin Synod people are way over the line."

The delegates will debate whether to use the King James Version, KJV 21, or another KJV.

Not invited to sing.

Love Shack employees will come to the microphone and say, "We have pledged to stop leaking news and spiking news through Herman Otten. It's just dishonest."

SP Schroeder will ditch Thrivent in favor of a new way to make money on the side.The name may suppress sales.Maybe they need a motto in better taste.

No Gospel, No Faith, No Love, Mercy, or Forgiveness

Greed, gluttony, lust for power.

Many people are shocked by the thuggish nature of WELS clergy, who glory in their behavior and brag about how rotten they are.

No Gospel
But they are not alone. What do Glende, Jenswold, and McCain have in common? They are ardent promoters of Universal Objective Justification. McCain probably celebrates the Assumption of Mary, while Glende honors the infallibility of Groeschel - those are simply two flavors of the same Enthusiasm.

All three clergy are incredibly nasty, nasty in their published or broadcast communications, nasty in their general behavior, nasty enough for public rebukes from many sources.

UOJ is not the Gospel - it supplants the Gospel in the name of the Gospel. All the UOJ advocates back away from UOJ when people take a look at what they are saying. They retreat to justification by faith, but their redoubt (great pun, no?) is a fraudulent appendage to their one and only dogma - everyone is forgiven.

Like ELCA, they mean universal absolution when they say Gospel!. Like ELCA, they mean every single cannibal and polytheist and Mormon is forgiven of all sin--before birth--when they say grace!.

I have provided abundant proof, with the help of friends and the late Robert Preus, that the orthodox Lutherans never taught UOJ, that the Book of Concord does not have a speck of it.

More importantly, for those who worship the Olde Synodical Conference, my researches have shown that justification was the ONLY justification taught in many publications--Missouri and WELS--for many decades.

The documentary evidence--from Luther, Calov, Gerhard, Melanchthon, Chemnitz, Andreae, Chytraeus, Gausewitz, the LCMS German catechism, the LCMS KJV catechism, and Robert Preus--shows that justification by faith alone is the Biblical, Lutheran doctrine.

No Faith
The natural result of teaching against faith in the Word is to destroy that trust. If someone could audit the leadership of WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect on the Prairie, he would find that many leaders have no faith in God. They are simply marking time, waiting for their pensions to kick in, and hoping for a smooth exit.

How else can anyone explain their ease of fellowship and close working relationship with ELCA? Only shameless apostates would remain in the same room with ELCA leaders, who pay murdering the unborn with their lavish health plan for clergy.

Only atheists who hated the Scriptures would promote the New NIV. Murdoch's New Age Bible is so bad that the Baptists do not even want it sold in their denominational stores, let alone adopted for all their religious publications. WELS is hotter than Georgia asphalt for the New NIV, especially among their dunderhead UOJ faculty.

No Love
The Olde Synodical Conference likes to hold itself superior to ELCA, but many have fled the lovelessness of the Walther cults for the generic niceness of ELCA.

The Syn Conference leaders would like to pretend that the backsliders leave. No, people flee because of emotional, sexual, and physical abuse. They are nauseated by leaders who back up murdering church workers and cover up for sexual abuse of women and minors. ELCA (venereal warts and all) reported clergy in trouble for their abuse in The Lutheran magazine, but WELS will not admit to its own District President going to state prison, its vicar in state prison, its youth leader arrested for playing with boys, its adulterous Shrinker expert promoted back into the parish (!), and its straying parish pastor promoted to mission consultant. And the list seems endless.

God will judge. God has judged and the members are fleeing, because they do not hear the comfort of the Gospel and see only the results of lawlessness. They could enjoy the same perversions in the Roman Catholic Church with better brands of incense and fancier robes.

No Mercy
The Syn Conference pastors think they have a right, an obligation, to beat down the members. They have a nice racket going. First they demand royal treatment if anyone dares to disagree with their fanatical heresies or unethical behavior. If someone tries to follow every commandment in their Talmud, that person is condemned for doing the very thing demanded in the first place. "How dare you tell me I could be wrong? How dare you tell me to my face? How dare you quote the Scripture and Confessions? I will talk; you will listen."

Coming to the pastor is converted into the Greatest Sin of All Time, which May Destroy Our Beloved Parish and Holy Mother Synod. (Pause to sigh, "Tragic, tragic.") Now the question is whether individual is guilty of 15 or 50 felonies. Forget the false doctrine, which pales in comparison. Forget the molested teen or embezzled money. What about the 8th Commandment?

Clergy born free of sin cannot possibly be wrong, because they are free of sin. No one has explained how that does NOT apply to anyone else. That is not something to think too long and hard about. Better not to think at all.
Pray. Pay. Obey -
the Roman Catholic way.

I know of one UOJ parish where the layman apologized on the spot for the smallest slip of a tongue, a statement that happened to be true. The clergy went after him for weeks, with statement after statement about how he was a miserable sinner who had to repent. He sent me the stack of documents to show the relentless pursuit of a contrite man. And this Gospel-soaked UOJ parish shut down faster than beauty salon in a hippy commune.

No Forgiveness
If someone wants to see a lack of forgiveness, just get to know one UOJ Enthusiast. I posted something unrelated to justification on another blog. Immediately, someone posted anonymously - "Aren't you the fanatic who follows Larry Darby?"

A Collection o of Comments

AC V has left a new comment on your post "Wisconsin Sect Dirty Tricks":

"Easter celebrates the greatest treasure the world ever has received. If in this world a person has received nothing other than this treasure, he or she will have lived a rich life.

What is this treasure? It is the forgiveness of our sins. Psalm 32, verse 2 reminds us, 'Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count against him…' Jesus’ physical resurrection on Easter declares the world 'not guilty' of sin."

http://www.bethlehem-luth.org/newsletter.htm

- Rev. George Ferch, Michigan Lutheran Seminary Governing Board Chairman

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Wisconsin Sect Dirty Tricks":

Inquiring minds want to know. If Tiefel is positing the WELS worship conference as the gold standard for worship, then why as Dean of the Sausage Factor Chapel (i.e. the guy in charge of worship) is he turning out CORE clones?

Coming soon to a parish (sorry, "congregation." "Parish" is too Catholic) near you: Gown-less, chancel-wandering, Bible-thumping motivational speakers.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Additional Attempts To Rescue Crypto-Universalism,...":

"This is what has been taught for generations in conservative Lutheranism."

True, if you mean for the past 100 years or so. False, if you mean since the Book of Concord. Compare and contrast:

"The katallassein of Rom 5:10 and 2 Cor 5:19 does not refer…to any change that occurs in men, but describes an occurrence in the heart of God." - Francis Pieper, Christian Dogmatics, II, 348, circa 1917–1924.

"Although Christ has acquired for us the remission of sins, justification, and sonship, God just the same does not justify us prior to our faith. Nor do we become God's children in Christ in such a way that justification in the mind of God takes place before we believe." - Abraham Calov, Apodixis Articulorum Fidei, Lueneburg, 1684.

[GJ - J. S. Bach, thoroughly orthodox, owned the Calov Bible commentary]

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bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Oh! Oh! I Just Discovered a UOJ Principle: Barth's...":

Lutherans bringing Hmong over to Minneapolis area makes Clint Eastwood movie:

http://pastelder.blogspot.com/2009/01/everybody-blames-lutherans_11.html

12 January 2009
"Everybody blames the Lutherans."

A great line from the latest canonical work of the greatest theologian of our time, Clint Eastwood's "Gran Torino".

Video clip--see last few seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XydN7j83m54&feature=related