Wednesday, January 16, 2013

DP Patterson Threatens His Counseling Victims with Violence - "Not a Brawler...Not a Wine-Bibber"

Which photo is gayer?

http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/01/the-witch-hunt-has-officially-begun.html#comment-form



Joe Krohn said...
Pr. Dietsche, it is not what the words said but what is implied. These signers will be 'interviewed' and systematically 'encouraged' to withdraw their names from the roll, or else. As one who has witnessed the dark side of the WELS; Whereas; in one meeting with a future DP, there was a fleeting moment where I feared for my physical safety; Pr. Rydecki was not removed from the WELS ministry for false doctrine, but because he would not adhere to their agenda. I am not 'grinding my ax' as some are wont to say, but to simply state the truth on what I have seen.

In the spirit of fraternal admonishment,
Joe

Martin Luther College - WELS - Cannot Abide Justification by Faith -
But They Copied a Homosexual Video and Lied about It.



Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Synod Pope Matt Harrison Really Cares About the Vi...":

Is it any different in the (W)ELS? I personally consider Martin Luther College's homoerotic Party in The MLC video (which was directed and acted by future (W)ELS clergy and teachers) to be their official coming out notice.

Any surprise then that the WELS COP recommended in their recent cabal to not address their seminary student's question regarding Synod policies on how to deal with porn addicted clergy:

D.05 Question from seminary student on COP policies regarding pornography


Background: A seminary student working on his senior project has asked for specific COP policies regarding the way that pastors involved with pornography are dealt with.

The Doctrine Committee recommends that due to its complex nature another topic be considered for a senior thesis project.


BARF! 


***

GJ - The pastors know they have a homosexual/bisexual network in WELS. One pastor was sure others were involved with Joel Hochmuth.


Ambiguous - Or Ingenuous - Or Deceitful:
More Laughs from No Call Paul




http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/01/the-witch-hunt-has-officially-begun.html#comment-form



Paul McCain said...
While I have no spoon in this soup, I would simply like, with respect for all involved, to say that if a church body has determined for itself a doctrinal position and has chosen persons and processes for assuring that members of the church body in fact adhere to those doctrinal positions, it should come as no surprise when a person who has been removed from said church body and still is running a blog site involving members of his former church body causes those members to come under suspicion of sharing in that person's positions.

I can't see how, as a matter of principle, the actions of the WELS Council of Presidents can be faulted.

It seems only natural that the WELS would wish to assure itself that those who participate on this forum do not share in the opinions and positions of the person who was recently removed from the WELS.

And if they do, would they not also be duty bound to leave the WELS and find their church fellowship elsewhere?

BOYS BASKETBALL: Cal Lutheran's Dynamic duo | High School Game Time | HSGameTime PE.com - Press-Enterprise



Cal Luthern (sic) boys basketball players Ryan Smith, center, and Robert Riesenberg, right with coach Dave Peter on Monday, January 14, 2012. The C-Hawks are the top-ranked team in the CIF Division 6 poll and could be the one team from South County that plays for a CIF boys basketball title in March. Smith is 6-foot-10, Riesenberg is 5-9. Both are three-year starters. Riesnberg was the league MVP and led the C-Hawks to the CIF title game last spring. Smith is a D-1 college recruit. 

BOYS BASKETBALL: Cal Lutheran's Dynamic duo | High School Game Time | HSGameTime PE.com - Press-Enterprise:



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A Text Size  
WILDOMAR — There are 12 enrollment-based CIF-Southern Section playoff divisions for basketball. The smallest is Division 6 for schools with enrollments ranging from 19 to 99.
Sitting atop the first CIF D-6 basketball poll of 2013 was Wildomar Cal Lutheran. It is not a typo.
Entering this week, the C-Hawks are 10-3 and 4-0 in the Arrowhead League, where they have won 17 consecutive games dating to February 2011.
Last year’s team played in the CIF D-6 championship game, won its first-round game in the Southern California regionals, went 12-0 in league and is without question the best team ever to come through Cal Lutheran, according to coach and athletic director Dave Peter.
This year’s team is not far behind.
“Between this year’s team and last year’s team, they are the top two teams we’ve had at our school,” said Peter, now in his 14th year at Cal Lutheran. “It would be fun to have a video game simulation.”
There are two primary holdovers from last season’s senior-dominated roster and both are primarily responsible for the C-Hawks’ historic run: Robert Riesenberg, a 5-foot-9 senior guard, and Ryan Smith, a 6-10 senior center. Riesenberg was the league’s MVP as a junior while Smith was named the league’s best defensive player. They both were first team all-CIF D-6 selections.
“What he doesn’t have in size as a 5-9 player, he’s going to make up on the court with his intensity,” Peter said of Riesenberg, who is averaging 14.8 points, 4.2 assists, 4.3 steals and shooting 39 percent on 3-pointers this season. “He’s a great outside shooter. He’ll pick your pocket, even if you don’t want him to. He’s a very feisty floor general and just understands the game.”
“He’s probably the most competitive kid I’ve had in any sport. He wants to compete and he wants to win. … I don’t practice against the guys anymore because I got sick and tired of him stealing it from me.”
As for Smith, Peter said he has improved tremendously over the past year, gaining strength and stamina while improving his footwork and mid-range jumper. Smith is being recruited by NCAA Division I schools, including Top 25 ranked Minnesota.
“I’d be willing to say he’s 20 times better this year,” Peter said. “He worked his butt off in the weightroom. He had not played much travel ball prior to last year. I think that was huge for him. Every single day he was playing basketball.”
For three years, Smith also played football for Peter as “a 6-8 tight end/D-end.” But not this past fall.
“Last year after basketball season, I went to him and said, ‘Look, you just can’t play football,’” Peter said. “‘You’re going to be 6-10 and your future is in basketball.’ He’s the first kid in my 14 years of coaching football that I ever said don’t play football.”
Smith, who said he gets his height from his mother, who is 6-foot and his father, who is 6-5, took an official visit to Santa Clara in the fall and is receiving attention from Cal Baptist, a Division II school, as well as the D-I schools — the University of San Diego, Idaho, Montana and the Golden Gophers, Peter said.
“They’re looking for a big man,” Peter said. “In this class, big men are few and far between, especially guys that can actually run the floor, shoot and pass.”
Both Smith and Riesenberg are from North San Diego County; Smith from Escondido, Riesenberg from Fallbrook. They both attended Lutheran middle schools and have been commuting to the tiny Wildomar campus since they were freshmen. Both agree that last year’s team was better. For now.
“There was better team chemistry last year,” Riesenberg said. “This year, we’re getting better. Every game we learn something new about ourselves.”
Smith is averaging 16.8 points, 13 rebounds, 4.8 blocks and shooting 57 percent from the field. In a recent league victory over Anza Hamilton, Smith had his first career triple-double with 26 points, 18 rebounds and 10 blocked shots.
“He’s improved more than any other player on our entire team,” Riesenberg said, before giving his buddy a little ribbing. “He’s able to jump now. Last year he couldn’t even dunk. This year he can throw it down, drop-step and throw it down. He’s gotten bigger, stronger, faster; everything has improved.”
Last season, the C-Hawks lost in the CIF D-6 title game to La Canada Renaissance Academy, 67-45. Renaissance has been moved up in divisions, leaving an opening for Cal Lutheran to perhaps exceed the heights reached by last year’s team.
“I definitely think we can win the championship this year,” Riesenberg said. “Just because Renaissance is out and I don’t see any other team that is as good as them.”
Peter is a little more cautious, even questioning the legitimacy of the No. 1 ranking.
“Honestly, there are probably six teams that can win it all,” he said. “Whether it’s No. 1 or No. 6 or 8 or 9. Whoever can stay healthy and put a run together. Being No. 1 is a nice pat on the back. It’s just a number and doesn’t really matter.”


'via Blog this'

Comments about Comments



rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Stop Being a Bridesmaid in Blogging":

My comments have always been posted here. There were many instances where a comment was posted individually. When I go back and look at them, I sometimes think that the idea may have been a bit incoherent. I am glad that my comments are always unedited. I do not have the time to visit too many other blogs, only to have my posts be sent down the memory hole. This is not about anyone's soapbox. Ichabodians prefer this site because we are treated fairly here. The synodical muckety mucks are getting their comeuppance. If they would have engaged in honest doctrinal debate, they would not be in the pickle that they are in now.

---

WELS Pastor Joel Lillo, Fox Valley has left a new comment on your post "Stop Being a Bridesmaid in Blogging":

You haven't published one of my comments for months. I feel you may be blocking them.

***

GJ - Joel, you have been sending the same comment for five years. It has to have some originality.

Walther Myths Examined and Exposed

CFW and his brother kidnapped their niece and nephew
from their father's parsonage.

Walther founded the LCMS.

False. Loehe began the organization, inviting the Missouri group to join. Many of the best leaders were from Loehe, because they were not part of the Stephan cult. The Saxon group came over because of Stephan, not because of Walther.


Walther was an orthodox Lutheran.

False. Walther graduated from a rationalistic university and associated with two Pietistic circles. When the first leader moved away and died, the Walther group subordinated themselves to Martin Stephan as their cell group guru.


The Saxon group left for America to pursue religious freedom.

Ha! The rationalists were in charge of the state church, but Stephan's congregation had special permission to have cell group meetings. He was quite well known as a leader in various Christian efforts, hardly a martyr suffering in prison. Stephan took his group away when things got too hot for him - court trial and house arrest.

Rambach was a Halle University Pietist.

The Saxon group preserved Lutheran orthodoxy by coming to America.

False. Stephan was a Pietist, educated at Halle University (in part). He taught the Easter absolution of the whole world to Walther, who enforced it in Missouri, parroted by his hand-picked successor F. Pieper. This Easter absolution nonsense is the heart of UOJ.


Walther and the clergy did not know of Stephan's adultery.

False. They definitely knew, as acknowledged in Zion on the Mississippi. Stephan was constantly with young women alone, chiefly Louise Guenther. Stephan left his wife in Dresden to fend for herself and took Louise to America. Stephan was already attracting negative attention in St. Louis, so they bought overpriced Mormon land in Perrysville.


Walther and friends found out about Stephan's adultery through private confession.

This fable was refuted in Zion on the Mississippi many decades ago. The author reported that the clergy either knew or chose not to see the obvious. The big scandal was not adultery, but Stephan spreading his syphilis into the colony.


No one understands Stephan's strange behavior in America.

False. LCMS leaders know that Stephan had syphilis in Europe, infecting his wife and children. He went to spas with his mistress to treat his rash. His night walks were also because of discomfort with syphilis symptoms, and he took young women along. The last stage of syphilis attacks the brain and causes strange behavior and delusions.


Walther did not sign the statement making Stephan their bishop for life.

He signed it.


Stephan was given three choices during the Walther mob scene - they piously claim at the Perrysville shrine to Walther.

False. Walther's mob robbed the bishop, threatened his life, and forced him at gunpoint across the river to Illinois. Instead of confronting the bishop with his sin, Walther secretly stole back the land given to Stephan. Instead of following Galatians 6:1 and Matthew 18, the carefully selected group violated the law and the Scriptures.


Stephan's adultery was the fault of Mrs. Stephan.

Walther himself shopped this slander against the long-suffering wife of the bishop. She fended for herself. She took care of her dying children the best she could. She did everything she could to stop his adultery, even tossing one young woman out her house when Stephan set up a room for her. Stephan called himself the ruler of the house and brought the girl back.

PS

Anyone not addicted to Holy Mother Synod worship can see that the Synodical Conference began as a private sex cult. Abuse of the pastoral office was practiced by Stephan, and his dictatorial powers were taken over by Walther. Anyone who was not LCMS was a damnable heretic, even though Walther never caught on to Lutheran doctrine.

The Darwin Schauer case in the LCMS shows that the Synod President is still a pope, as Walther was. Likewise, WELS and the Little Sect on the Prairie are more interested in PR results than telling the truth about their crimes (murder, adultery, child abuse).



---

From someone:


Found a G.C. Knapp in working through Heick's "A History of Christian Thought."  It occurs in Book Four, The Disintegration of Confessional Theology; chapter seven, German Rationalism; section head, The Theologians of Rationalism. The page reference is 128.

"Frequently all the theologians of this period  have been thought of being as one stripe.  This is not quite correct.  Two main schools of thought can be distinguished among them: the Supernaturalists and the Rationalists proper. The former exerted a kind of restraining influence in the earlier period of the Enlightenment; they marked the transition from Orthodoxy and pietism to rationalism...Relying on Kant's axiom that pure reason cannot establish religious truth,  second group of Supernaturalists emphasized that reason cannot deny the claims of Christianity. Among the proponents of this view were F.V. Reinhard at Wittemberg and Dresden (d. 1812) and G.C. Knapp at Halle (d. 1825). They labored to prove by rational means the possibility, necessity, and reality of the content of supernatural revelation. Truth was to be proved by Scripture. The idea was that Scripture, not reason, was to decide in matter of religion; but reason establishes what the teaching of Scripture is."


Lutherans Know How To Divide and Destroy Their Denominations, Too

Episcopal Presiding Bishop Schori and another bishop posed for a happy picture.


Most readers realize by now that Katie Schori, the presiding bishop of The Episcopal Church, has been doing a bang-up job of destroying her own denomination, using equity from the church headquarters to sue her own priests and bishops.

Finally! A bishop with a wife who will stay home and cook dinner.

Her titular boss, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has done the same for world-wide Anglicanism, by promoting the same apostate causes. In America, the the climactic issue was Bishop Robinson posing with his husband after being enthroned. The American Episcopalians showed a lot of spine, leaving their church body and their priceless buildings for the sake of doctrinal integrity. I always thought of Episcopalians as especially flexible in doctrine, but they were better grounded than their Lutheran counterparts.

ELCA followed this Robinson debacle by passing the 2009 vote to ordain homosexual clergy. That began the exodus known as the LCMC (pre-existing but very small until 2009) and the bishops' own group, the NALC.

"Urbe et...what's the rest? Never took Latin."


Pope John the Malefactor (ELS) did his best when a few clergy disagreed with him and WELS about the ministry. He kicked them out. Some congregations left on their own rather than kiss his papal ring.

Now WELS is on another toot about their precious UOJ. DP Jon-Boy Buchholz has led the way by artlessly dividing a congregation in New Mexico. That reminded me of the Cuban boy in America. The family was told, "We are negotiating with Cuba" while the SWAT team was descending, using drawn guns to capture the boy and drag him back to the island he risked his life to escape. Likewise, Jon-Boy told the gathered congregation they would all continue to study UOJ while preparing his defenestration of the pastor.

The WELS Coven of Popes said to Jon-Boy, "You don't get all the fun by yourself, thou artless divider of congregations and districts. We are going to examine the Intrepids as closely as Glende and Ski examined Katy Perry. Anathema sit! Anathema sit! Anathema sit!"

I hate to bring up Luther at a time like this, with Milwaukee and St. Louis reading the blog. I might as well discuss nuclear physics with bunny rabbits. But Luther understood this warfare quite well.

The dividers are doing God a big favor, but not in a way they realize. The apostates want the glory, the power, and the riches. By separating the conservative loyalists from Holy Mother Synod, the apostate leaders are making things worse for themselves while setting the faithful free.

Katie Schori is a fast-forward look at Lutherdom in 2017. ELCA and WELS are dividing fast.

The LCMS? Matt Harrison and his buddies will continue to lavish money on themselves while suppressing all dissent from their divisive policies. 



Tearing the Denomination Apart - A Global Trend.
VirtueOnline - News

I couldn't get a Katie Schori poster to download, so I picked another advocate to feature.


VirtueOnline - News:

African Anglican Archbishops Blast Church of England Decision over Gay Bishop Direction 
Can Archbishop-elect Welby stop the hemorrhaging and restore the Communion's Biblical heritage?

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue 
www.virtueonline.org 
January 14, 2013

The division between the liberal pan Anglican West and orthodox Anglican Global South leaders widened this past week with vigorous denunciations by archbishops lining up to denounce the Church of England's decision to allow celibate gay bishops.

There has not been such an eruption of anger and frustration since the openly gay Gene Robinson was consecrated Bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.

One by one, the mostly African archbishops have lined up to denounce and threaten the Church of England's decision to allow unverifiable celibate gay bishops to function in the church, even though the laity recently shot down the idea of women bishops in the Church of England.

If the idea of celibate gay bishops actually comes to fruition, it will threaten already wide divisions in the worldwide Anglican Communion and sabotage any possibility the newly anointed Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby has of bringing the warring factions together.

Nigerian Archbishop Nicholas Okoh, leader of some 21 million Evangelical Anglicans and the largest province in the Communion, said such reforms "could very well shatter whatever hopes we had for healing and reconciliation within our beloved Communion.

"The decision to permit homosexual clergy in civil partnerships to now be considered for the episcopacy is one step removed from the moral precipice that we have already witnessed in The Episcopal Church (USA) and the Anglican Church of Canada," he noted.

Earlier, Ugandan Archbishop Stanley Ntagali and Archbishop Eliud Wabukala of Kenya, who is also head of the Gafcon group of traditionalist Anglican primates, issued a joint statement saying that the recent decision of the House of Bishops to allow clergy in civil partnerships to be eligible to become Bishops is really no different from allowing gay Bishops. "This decision violates our Biblical faith and agreements within the Anglican Communion."

Later in the week, nine Anglican Primates including archbishops Mouneer Anis of Egypt, Ian Ernest, Primate of the Indian Ocean, The Most Rev. Datuk Bolly Lapok, Primate of South East Asia, The Most Rev. Stephen Than Myint Oo, Primate of Myanmar Bishop of Yangon and The Most Rev. Hector "Tito" Zavala, Primate of the Southern Cone issued a statement deploring the actions of the Church of England.

"Sadly, both the decision to permit clergy to enter civil partnerships and this latest decision which some call it a 'local option,' are wrong and were taken without prior consultation or consensus with the rest of the Anglican Communion at a time when the Communion is still facing major challenges of disunity. 

"It is contrary to 'the inter-dependence' which we try to affirm between churches within the Communion.

"Moreover, it does not only widen the gap between the Church of England and Anglicans in the Global South, it also widens the gap between the Anglican Communion and our ecumenical partners. 

"Further, it jeopardizes the relationship between us Anglicans living in the Global South and followers of other faiths, and gives opportunities to exploit such departure of moral standards that this type of decision may provide. 

"The Church, more than any time before, needs to stand firm for the faith once received from Jesus Christ through the Apostles and not yield to the pressures of the society."

In other words, the Church needs to be "salt" and "light" and to present a distinctive message from that of the secular world around us.

This action by the Church of England will further deepen the divide created in the 77 million Anglican Communion which saw the Diocese of New Westminster in the Anglican Church of Canada bless same-sex couples in 2002 and later The Episcopal Church ordaining Gene Robinson as its first homogenital bishop in 2003.

African Anglican churches, which almost to a province are orthodox in faith and morals, and those churches in revisionist Western diocese that maintain biblical standards are in the vanguard of traditionalists opposing the change as contrary to Biblical teaching. Many are under direct threat from revisionist archbishops. Five dioceses have left The Episcopal Church unable to accept the changes they see as advancing a secular liberal agenda far removed from Scripture.

The Church of England has bowed "to the contemporary idols of secularism and moral expediency," the Nigerian Archbishop opined, and "is one step removed from the moral precipice we have already witnessed in The Episcopal Church (USA) and the Anglican Church in Canada."

"The supposed assurances of celibacy, while perhaps well intentioned, are both unworkable and unenforceable," he added.

CHALLENGE FACING WELBY

The reaction from African archbishops underscores the challenge awaiting the new Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, who will officially take over as head of the Church of England and spiritual leader of the Communion in March.

The Global South will be watching to see which way the theological wind blows and how far he will bend to cater to what they see as a dying Western Anglicanism that might well be out of business in two decades unless they experience a spiritual revival.

Archbishop Rowan Williams failed, in his decade in office, to avoid a de facto schism between revisionists and traditionalists, mainly African evangelicals who with strong support from U.S. orthodox Episcopalians and Anglicans served notice that they would no longer tolerate the liberalizing trends of Church leaders in the United States, Canada and Britain.

For the last decade, the Anglican Communion has survived in a broken state. The formation of GAFCON/FCA - the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans in 2008 is now being pushed hard in England. This latest move could well result in more division. As one senior cleric in the Church of England stated, "If the bishops lift the ban on blessings it will result in deep divisions of a kind that has not been seen in the Church of England for centuries. People are already close to setting up an alternative Church."

Since a quarter of Anglican bishops boycotted the 2008 Lambeth Conference and a third of the Primates boycotted in Dublin last year, the Communion has been in a state of suspended animation, with the Archbishop of Canterbury all but impotent to do anything about it

A new Archbishop of Canterbury in the person of Durham Bishop Justin Welby, an avowed evangelical, offers glimmers of hope to a flailing Anglican Communion, but the Global South will suspend judgment till they see which way the wind blows.

Even as the Anglican Communion drifts further apart, the admission of women bishops and the possibility of gay but celibate bishops in the Church of England will only further cement positions African Anglicans reject.

Ntagali said he was discouraged to see "that the Church of England, which once brought the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Uganda, has taken such a significant step away from that very Gospel that brought life, light and hope to us."

The question now is, can Archbishop-elect Welby pull an evangelical rabbit out of a moribund Church of England ecclesiastical hat? To use another analogy, will he preside as the emperor with no clothes, an Archbishop in name only, unable to stop what many view as the inevitable demise of the Anglican Communion as we know it?

END

'via Blog this'

Stop Being a Bridesmaid in Blogging



I learned early that all my comments could be wiped out. I posted on Free Republic that George W. Bush had advanced the liberal agenda on many different fronts. The moderators booted me and erased every post I had written - very 1984.

Subsequently, the site admitted that Bush betrayed the conservatives many different ways. Therefore, I decided to stop wasting time composing comments that would be wiped out on a whim. I began blogging on my own.

Facebook comments disappear quickly, so why waste time debating with people who have no knowledge of Lutheran doctrine? They can easily erase comments they do not like and often expel people from discussion pages. 

The Intrepid Lutherans decided certain people could not even post comments. Paul McCain only allows people to flatter him for copying from The Catholic Encyclopedia.




At Steadfast Lutherans, Mr. Whipple and his pussycat refer to justification-by-faith Lutherans as "morons." Mr. Whipple got rid of the Darwin Schauer discussion by erasing the entire thread - and all the damning facts about the DP involved. I preserved the relevant facts here.

I am quite generous in letting comments through, especially when they express their opposing view with the worst grammar, spelling, logic, and research. 

Many people find their thoughtful, edifying comments featured as separate posts. "Only a few" people comment, claims the papal plagiarist. That is why Ichabod has 18,309 comments posted, averaging close to two for each post.

Almost 10,000 posts have been published.

I have seen a few people start blogging on their own. I am glad to see that, since the writing effort alone helps clarify issues. I learn by writing because I have to research each item. The apostates make sure I have everything substantiated - but they still howl, gibber, and rave.

Synod Pope Matt Harrison Really Cares About the Victims of Clergy Abuse?
Read About a Known, Convicted Sex Offender Given a Job by the DP

The LCMS gave Darwin Schauer a new opportunity for his crimes,
but Matt Harrison is silencing discussion.



Pr. Don Kirchner (Kirchner)
Senior Member
Username: Kirchner

Post Number: 3351
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 6:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


Not a rant. The objection is implying that Synodical officials were making calls to stifle discussion on some websites.

We were told by a BJS editor that this in fact did take place. After the thread was removed there was a statement thereon about its removal that referenced the Office of the Synodical President.

Furthermore, I received a confirmation that "Matt asked Rossow to stop discussing the case on the site for now."

Moreover, President Harrison made a very negative comment about on-line conversations about the issue in his address to the MN North convention.

It became a circle-the-wagons situation, the Synod investigated its own and (surprise!) found that Synodical officials handled the whole situation quite appropriately. In the letter that they sent us, laying this out, they of course copied Synodical legal counsel with their findings and conclusions. So, we can ascertain what their underlying concern was, and it sure wasn't the victim, her family, or the congregation. 

Pr. Don Kirchner (Kirchner)
Senior Member
Username: Kirchner

Post Number: 3352
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 9:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post


"And what perhaps concerns me most is that from all indications, this is inconsistent from the Synodical administration's usual actions."

Really? How so? I'm more inclined to view things as Mr. Blecker stated them. There is nothing new under the sun. This is the way a bureaucracy typically works.

Example: During the Barry administration there was a push for the districts to pass specific disciplinary guidelines for cases of alleged sexual harassment or abuse. We questioned the need since there already are "guidelines" in place that the DPs are too (sic) follow in such cases. Furthermore, by passing them the pastor was agreeing to be generally hung out to dry in cases of mere allegation. The basic purpose of the proposed guidelines was to cover the Synod/District in case such a situation arose.

President Barry, present at the MN North Disrict Convention, was asked about the need. He couldn't be specific; he simply said they were necessary. And he passed the word through his surrogates that he wanted those new guidelines passed. It was clear to us that legal counsel was insisting on it.

They did not pass, and President Barry was not a happy camper, particularly with those of us who worked to get the proposal defeated.

So, my comment of what is the big deal is in response to a view that such Synodical action is out-of-the-ordinary. No, it is typical and not surprising at all.

When our situation all came down last year, my circuit counselor asked to have lunch with me. My sense of why he'd come was confirmed as he furiously took copious notes of everything I said in our conversation. When I brought up the fact that, the day we found out about the abuse and held a meeting with him and the DP, that the DP had mentioned Schauer's previous conviction and also stated that the circuit counselor also knew about it, which the CC affirmed. But, when I brought it up at lunch (Keep in mind that the Synod/District position had now changed to one in which they claimed that they thought the previous conviction had been expunged.), the CC's response? "I don't recall that comment." To a trial attorney, the response that "I don't recall that" or "I have no recollection of that" is a red flag that the person is lying. It's an awkward response; a truthful response typically is "I don't remember that" or "I don't know." I snapped back: "How do you think I found out that you knew about the previous conviction?" His reply: "Oh, right."

I patiently explained that I knew Synod's concern, that they were afraid of a lawsuit, but that Synod/District did not place Darwin Schauer in the situation whereby he could abuse the victim. Generally, it didn't happen at church in his capacity as a "lay minister." Bottom line- there was no legal basis for a lawsuit even if somebody wanted to bring one.

The circuit counselor's closing comment to me, after the pious devotion after lunch of course: "I'll tell them that there is no lawsuit." Again, I knew why he'd come. I kind of felt sorry for him. I bought him lunch.

Good men will rationalize their actions, Mr. Gehlhausen, with the view that they are protecting Christ's church.

***


GJ - The entire discussion about Darwin Schauer was erased from the "Steadfast" Lutheran group-think blog. 

Needless to say, the entire site is devoted to UOJ, where Antinomians rule supreme.

Why Not Let the Synod Subsidize Professors' Salaries?



bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Synod Board...":

More on how Harrison wants CUS to assume its own debt, or somehow he wants the LCMS to pay it off via a special offering:

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=25787&cpage=1

I thought that when the CUS (version 1.0) was originally introduced, the primary purpose was to provide a funding mechanism for capitalization of the schools and the system. I’d say that the synod “got taken to the cleaners” on that promise. Proper capitalization of the CUS and “living within its means” are way overdue.


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http://reporter.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=20511

In FY 2012, about 17 percent of all Synod's unrestricted resources were "granted" to CUS Inc. to pay the principal and interest due on this historic CUS debt. If it could be eliminated, several million dollars would be available to The LCMS Inc. each year to respond to the challenges in mission and ministry that our Lord places before us.



Cleansing the Temple is long overdue.

Tuesday, January 15, 2013

WELS Is Really Going To Land on Mark Jeske the Intrepid Lutherans Who Support Luther and the Book of Concord


David Becker has left a new comment on your post "LiveLeakers - The WELS COP Minutes - Mostly Boring...":

This is still the entire statement of faith of Time of Grace, as stated at http://www.timeofgrace.org/statementoffaith.php:

“We believe in the triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe that God has revealed himself through his word, the Holy Bible, and that the Bible is divinely inspired and without error. We believe that all human beings are terminally sinful and that only through the innocent life and death of Jesus Christ can anyone be saved. We believe we are here on this earth to spread the good news of Jesus Christ to as many people as possible.” 


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http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/01/the-witch-hunt-has-officially-begun.html

TUESDAY, JANUARY 15, 2013


The Witch Hunt Has (Officially) Begun

The following paragraph is from WELS District President Doug Engelbrecht’s summary of the recent meeting of the WELS Conference of Presidents, sent out to the pastors of his district:

PD.02  Intrepid Lutherans
·         Another item involved the Intrepid Lutheran website.  There is a concern that those who still wholeheartedly support this group by being “signers” are also supporting a pastor who has been removed from the ministerium of the WELS for doctrinal reasons, because he has been given a forum on their website.  The consensus was that each district president should approach pastors in their district who are listed as “signers” on the website and determine whether or not they are in support of the false doctrine that the suspended pastor espouses.   

As for me being "given a forum on their website,” the fact is, it’s our website.  I am still part of it (actually, still the chairman of Intrepid Lutherans, Inc.), much to the chagrin of the WELS leadership.  No one is "authorizing" my posts here.  Each of us posts independently, sometimes running our articles by one another for input, sometimes not.


Also, I don’t know how much clearer we can make this so that the COP will understand, but “being signers” on this blog has never meant anything more or less than what we have stated from the beginning on our Stand With Us page:

In what do we invite you to join “with intrepid heart, willing to appear before the judgment seat of Christ?” To what do we ask you, with great consent, to subscribe your name? To the Biblical and Confessional contentsof What We Believe. We are not asking you to subscribe to the contents of every post and comment that will appear on this blog.

No error or false doctrine has ever been identified or pointed out to us on our What We Believe page, which has not changed since the first day Intrepid Lutherans rolled out.

The only change we have recently made to our Stand With Us page is to remove the reference to ourselves and our signers as “members of WELS.”  This was never entirely accurate in the first place, because, technically, even lay members of a WELS congregation are not “members of WELS,” since only pastors, male teachers and whole congregations can be “members” of the synod.  As it now stands, there is at least one fully and unmistakably non-WELS member who is an Intrepid signer:  Yours Truly.

Of course, it was not my choice to be a non-WELS member.  That decision was made for me by DP Buchholz back in October.  During one of his visits to my congregation in which he labeled me a heretic and tried to convince my flock to rescind my call (before my suspension), one of my members told him point blank, “This sure seems like a witch hunt.”

DP Buchholz was visibly agitated by that comment, and referred back to it several times over the following weeks.  He assumed that it originated with me, but it didn’t.  My members—most of them, anyway—could see with their own eyes what was going on.  He was indignant at being accused of orchestrating a witch hunt.  The truth hurts, as they say.

Now the witch hunt has become official.  I don’t know what else you call the above “consensus” that was reached by the WELS COP.  Apparently there is some new doctrine of “blog fellowship” lurking around out there in the shadows.  Apparently, since DP Buchholz has labeled me a heretic to be “marked and avoided” (Rom. 16:17), the entire COP has reached a consensus that every WELS pastor must “mark and avoid” me and my "false doctrine," even in the blogosphere, on threat of interrogation and other more sinister repercussions.

Let’s remember what, again, they would have me “marked and avoided” for.  What was that wicked heresy that I was teaching—that unscriptural, unlutheran, “novel” doctrine?

That sinners are justified before God by faith in Jesus Christ, and only by faith in Jesus Christ.  Grace alone. Faith alone. Scripture alone. Sola gratia. Sola fide.  Sola Scriptura. 

Luther has surely turned over several times in his grave.

But since the COP apparently wants to continue the discussion about justification with WELS pastors, I will assist them by attempting, over the coming months, to make my position crystal clear here on this blog, so that they can judge for themselves whether “the suspended pastor” espouses “false doctrine,” or whether the suspended pastor is the one proclaiming the true Gospel, the doctrine confessed in the Lutheran Confessions, the faith once delivered to the saints.  Then readers of this blog will have all the information necessary to make an informed judgment about whether I am someone to “mark and avoid” or someone with whom to stand in solidarity.

In either case, although being a signer of Intrepid Lutherans doesn’t mean you agree with everything I say or write, it has, nonetheless, just become a little more dangerous.  Dear WELS reader, you should be outraged at the witch hunt that has been enacted by the COP. This is no time for fear.  It’s time to be intrepid!

2 COMMENTS:

Anonymous said...
Five characteristics of a cult:

1) cults tend to centralize power in the hands of a single individual or small group that is considered beyond question

2) they treat all questions about the group and its beliefs as intolerable challenges to the group's authority and authenticity

3) they demean all those who do not share their beliefs and sow fear and mistrust amongst their believers about all such people

4) they typically cut off all or most opportunities for members to interact freely with those outside the group

5) they take revenge upon those who choose to leave the group in ways which include cutting them off from all relationships with those who remain inside, confiscation of material goods and even physical harm

From "The Thin Line between Religions and Cults"

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/brad_hirschfield/2009/04/the_bright_line_between_religions_and_cults.html

+ Pr. Jim Schulz
Daniel Baker said...
Anathema to the council of presidents and their popish behavior. God will not be mocked by their treachery against His holy Church.
Joe Krohn said...
Those points were hauntingly familiar to the experience we had, Pr. Schulz. I would say that until the WELS jettisons the business model, it is doomed for much more of this. There is too much 'group think' going on. Re-visiting what the Office of the Ministry is and what it isn't would also go a long way.

Oh, and by the way...I have been a non-WELS signer now since 2011. I am in good company. :)
Tim Niedfeldt said...
I'll be a non-WELS signer soon enough Joe. Remember way back when when certain people warned me of what happens to the best of intentions and where the path of CG leads? (Doug Lindee, everybody on BW, and eventually even you) Also remember I said I would leave when I felt that discipline had been lost and the post-modernism, relativism, and CG crept in? Well it's that time. I'm not going to be a prick and leave them high and dry on my technology duties but I am tutoralizing a new person to take over my Sunday morning role and hopefully by the end of February I will extricate myself.

I will become more active again...It's time to shed the slide down the slippery slope..and let others know not to go down it.

Tim Niedfeldt
Anonymous said...
There definitely is such a thing as "blog fellowship" now. I contribute to a blog called Ecclesia Augustana (http://ecclesiaaugustana.blogspot.com/). So far there are three names listed as contributors (more to come), two of which are WELS and then me -- not WELS. Of the two WELS laymen one is an MLC student. Big wigs at WLS got wind of it, phoned the big wigs at MLC who in turn asked to meet with him. During the meeting and since then, they've asked him to take his name down from the blog because it would "be in [his] best interest" (use your imagination on what that means). They listed that my congregation voted to leave the WELS and how a certain article about fellowship was really out there and he needed to be aware of it. They also told him that he's not allowed to perform organ concerts at non-WELS churches anymore because it wouldn't be in his best interest. Yes, concerts, not worship.

Point is, yes, you aren't even allowed to have your name next to someone who presents topics for discussion that may differ from the WELS' doctrine. If the WELS would ever be consistent, MLC should then, logically, stop hosting free conferences. WELS pastors should never present papers at any free conferences. I guess it's okay if they're live streamed and hosted at physical locations but once it's a blog it's criminal. It's also okay when it's Mark Jeske teaching alongside those outside of WELS' fellowship on how to do Ministry at the Change or Die conference (http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2011/03/change-or-die-issues-etc-comments.html). They also should ask their brother in the ELS, Pastor Joseph Abrahamson, to stop contributing on Brothers of John the Steadfast (steadfastlutherans.org) or any WELS/ELS pastor from ever contributing a single comment on any forum where there are also people outside of WELS' fellowship. This is scary stuff if you really think about it. My mind keeps going back to the first comment on this thread. Well, at least DPs are actually examining the pastors in their District. Too bad it's not with Chemnitz's Enchiridion and too bad it's not to weed out those who are killing souls with the third use of the Law. Instead, it's to weed out those who teach along with the whole Catholic and Apostolic Church that sinners are justified and considered righteous by God, freely, by faith alone (Ap IV, 88-89) Witch hunt indeed, witch hunt indeed...

Christian Schulz
Anonymous said...
I, too, am a fully and unmistakably non-WELS member who is an Intrepid signer. I left WELS by choice, in no small part due to the increasingly cultish collectivism of the synod bureaucracy.
"The Holy See of Milwaukee"

Fellow laymen, ensure your pastor is preaching the Scriptures and upholding the Confessions. There is more at stake than congregational identification; our pastors have a unique responsibility for our souls and will be held accountable by God. Support these good pastors through your prayers and your voices.

Spenglergeist.

Joel Dusek
Aurora, Colorado
LPC said...
This reminds me of the time when I used to belong to a Pentecostal denomination that uses similar tactics.

The book by Ronald Enroth, "Churches that Abuse", should be updated with this recent development.

LPC


AP said...
I'm sure some out there are questioning the use of the term witch hunt here. What is now apparently happening in WELS meets the major criteria of a witch hunt:

1. An insecure leadership or governing authority who for some reason feel threatened. A historical example would be the Puritan ministry in 1690s Salem after the colony had lost its charter.

2. The perception (and only perception) of some secret, internal enemy that is blamed for all that is wrong with society (or in this case church). This enemy is organized, there is never just one, and there is some leader. At Salem, former minister George Burroughs was thought to be the leader or a secret society of witches.

3. An inquisition of some sort, meaning an effort to uncover members of this secret organization. Guilt or innocence is never the issue at these "trials". The point is to get the accused (who is already presumed guilty) to name names.

4. Overreach. Eventually, the witch hunt goes too far, and slowly the absurdity and flat out wrongness of it all becomes apparent. It usually takes some very brave souls to stand up to it, often to go down for it, for the thing to end. Giles Corey was pressed to death at Salem for refusing to offer a plea before the witch hunting court. His brave stand was a turning point. Guilty people do not die for principle.

It seems that Intrepid Lutherans have now become the "enemy within" as John Demos calls the victims of witch hunts. Let us hope that the absurdity of an inquisitorial witch hunt in WELS will become quickly apparent and that a rising swell out outrage will shame the powers that be into stepping back from the cliff.

Dr. Aaron Palmer
Paul McCain said...
While I have no spoon in this soup, I would simply like, with respect for all involved, to say that if a church body has determined for itself a doctrinal position and has chosen persons and processes for assuring that members of the church body in fact adhere to those doctrinal positions, it should come as no surprise when a person who has been removed from said church body and still is running a blog site involving members of his former church body causes those members to come under suspicion of sharing in that person's positions.

I can't see how, as a matter of principle, the actions of the WELS Council of Presidents can be faulted.

It seems only natural that the WELS would wish to assure itself that those who participate on this forum do not share in the opinions and positions of the person who was recently removed from the WELS.

And if they do, would they not also be duty bound to leave the WELS and find their church fellowship elsewhere?
AP said...
With sincere respect to Pastor McCain, who is quite right on the NNIV:

I have been hearing this argument over and over. It is based on logical fallacy and faulty assumptions.

This silly notion of blog fellowship is rooted in a classic fallacy: Pastor Rydecki believes X. Pastor Rydecki is a member of Intrepid Lutherans. Therefore, all Intrepid Lutherans believe X. It would be like saying, Thrivent gives financial support to WELS. Thrivent gives financial support to ELCA. Therefore, WELS and ELCA are in full doctrinal agreement. The fallacy isn't even then applied consistently.

Moreover, why is it so difficult for people to read the original statement that we endorsed when we signed onto Intrepid Lutherans. It clearly explains what a signature here means and what it does not mean. So why is it logical to assume anything different? You are talking about pure "guilt" by association here, which was actually one of the strongest forms of evidence used against so-called witches in the early modern period.

I agree that the COP's job is to oversee doctrine and practice in WELS. I wish they would in fact! I would like someone, for example, to explain to me why it has allowed questionable (the kindest word I can use) practices adapted from heterodox sects to freely flourish in WELS. I hear the LCMS has the same problem. Seems like selective prosecution to me.

Dr. Aaron Palmer
Anonymous said...
Amen, Dr. Palmer.

Christian Schulz
Anonymous said...
WELS J.P. Koehler in “Gesetzlich Wesen unter uns,” "Legalism among Us," put it this way (pp. 238–39; emphasis in original):

"Owing to the Lutheran emphasis on justification and faith, it is natural that among us doctrinal presentation receives emphasis for the purpose of preaching the gospel. . . . by this term I understand such adhering to orthodoxy where the stress is shifted from faith to correct faith. . . . Such adherence to orthodoxy is primarily of an intellectual kind and functions by demanding and with an admixture of consciousness of one’s own being in the right or having everything right.

This bravado of orthodoxy feeds on the factious spirit which opposes the ecumenical spirit. For that reason it gets caught up in words instead of living in the facts. The result is traditionalism which has lost the spirit of the words, the spirit of the gospel. All of this is of a legalistic nature and opposes the gospel, and shows that in the course of doctrinal controversy the adherence to orthodoxy has deserted the basis of the gospel."

+ Pr. Jim Schulz
Anonymous said...
In the situation with Ecclesia Augustana, Rev. McCain, the contributor hasn't broken the WELS' fellowship laws. The only thing they were right about, according to their doctrine, was that he couldn't play the organ at a Vespers hosted by a non-WELS, but confessionally Lutheran, parish (which actually, ironically, agrees with WELS' Article II of the constitution). He did, in fact, pull out of that service (which is much more than Rev. Mark Jeske did with the Change or Die conference). The most significant thing, however, is that they have now gone beyond their written fellowship doctrine and have now included, ex cathedra, blog fellowship -- the same thing as free conferences which they actively host and participate in. In addition, according to his meeting with the high ups, he can't perform organ concerts. Concerts, before this, we're never in question; Worship services were. But then again, being selective, whether it's our contributor or Rev. Mark Jeske, is ridiculous. They'll pick on a confessional college kid but refuse to discipline liberal, non-subscriber of the BoC, Rev. Mark Jeske, as mentioned in my previous comment. Same with all organ players who perform concerts in their local AGO chapters. This is the new, de facto and massively hypocritical, doctrine and ridiculousness of the WELS' leadership.

In regards to justification and Fr. Rydecki, again, the Lutheran Confessions are all (including the Scriptures of course) the pastors subscribe and swear to, as I hope you are aware. Not other booklets produced in the 90s or 30s, etc. So according to the WELS' doctrine, Article II of their constitution, Fr. Rydecki has done absolutely nothing heretical.

So with these two anecdotes, it should be be shown that neither of these men have violated WELS' doctrine according to Article II of their own/previous constitution. If the WELS wants to be honest they should include This We Believe in Article II of the constitution and get on that stat. Same with their old, and now ex cathedra, theses on fellowship.

Christian Schulz
Pastor Spencer said...

To all readers, especially those engaged in this current discussion -

Many times over the past several months, I have said that I will not allow this blog to become absorbed in the justification debate going on in the WELS. I have said this to proponents on both sides and to various of our synod's leaders.

Upon further consideration, I have come to believe that I was wrong. I was being stubborn and arrogant. Who am I, after all? I do not "own" Intrepid Lutherans. It does not belong to me. If people want to debate this issue and want to do so on this blog, they should have the right to do so. While I may not think it is as important as, say, the translation issue, others may feel different. This is, after all, a "discussion forum," not a wholly-owned subsidiary of Pastor Spencer. I for one am not beyond admitting when I make a mistake or act arrogantly and prideful. This was not always the case in my younger days. I hope I have grown and matured in this regard, at least somewhat.

In addition, I believe I am following the thinking of Gamaliel, which God the Holy Spirit inspired St. Luke to record in Acts 5:33-42. Let Pastor Rydecki thoroughly explain exactly what he believes, and what he does not, and why. Let others argue and debate with him as much as they want. If his ideas are truly opposed to the Gospel of Christ, they will come to nothing. However, perhaps in the process we can all learn something, deepen our understanding, explain God's plan of salvation even better, and grow in our faith. Thus, I see it as a win-win situation. Again, if people don't want to debate this or even hear about it or see it on this blog, they will "vote" with their keyboards and wallets, and we will go out of business post haste!

Oh, and no one has asked me to step aside and allow this discussion, and I have not received any pressure or "advice" from either side. This is my own decision. For myself, I still hope to remain on the good Lutheran middle path, and serve mainly as a referee.

One thing: I urge both sides to keep your comments civil and brotherly. You can be firm, make strong statements, and even be strident and passionate. However, there is a big difference between a heretic and a damned heretic! If I see any comments which declare people on either side as "going to hell" or words to that effect, and I can reach the delete button first, they will not see the light of day. I hope my fellow moderators will follow me in this. Marquis of Queensberry debate rules, if you please.

OK, go to your corners and come out punching. And may God defend the right!

Pastor Spencer
Anonymous said...
Pure doctrine is simple and easy to understand. To paraphrase Dr. Luther: "For, thank God, a child seven years old knows" what justification is:

Justification is by faith alone.

nnuf said.

Cf. Formula of Concord - Solid Declaration III:25

+ Pr. Jim Schulz
Anonymous said...
Let the witch hunt begin. That is not what COP comments said. This is not a civil response in my humble opinion.
Rod Dietsche


Joe Krohn said...
Pr. Dietsche, it is not what the words said but what is implied. These signers will be 'interviewed' and systematically 'encouraged' to withdraw their names from the roll, or else. As one who has witnessed the dark side of the WELS; Whereas; in one meeting with a future DP, there was a fleeting moment where I feared for my physical safety; Pr. Rydecki was not removed from the WELS ministry for false doctrine, but because he would not adhere to their agenda. I am not 'grinding my ax' as some are wont to say, but to simply state the truth on what I have seen.

In the spirit of fraternal admonishment,
Joe
LPC said...
The tenor of the COP comment implies that these DPs want to know the colours of the signers of IL.

So, to the IL signers, show your colours when they come around to ask you through your pastors whether or not you stand or oppose Pr. Paul Rydecki on Justification. It is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing this, it is the COPs, so OK fair enough. I am quite glad that it is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing the issue for it shows he has no interest in being divisive, but just to articulate his faith, his conviction, as to what he believes the Scripture teaches.

IMO, I do not think any IL can be in the middle here; at least if we read the statement made by the COPs as documented in this post. It appears an IL signer is required to state where he/she stands.

By not showing where you stand, by default you have announced your colour - it is yellow. Thus, let them know. This is a great opportunity to make your confession known.

LPC
LPC said...
The tenor of the COP comment implies that these DPs want to know the colours of the signers of IL.

So, to the IL signers, show your colours when they come around to ask you through your pastors whether or not you stand or oppose Pr. Paul Rydecki on Justification. It is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing this, it is the COPs, so OK fair enough. I am quite glad that it is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing the issue for it shows he has no interest in being divisive, but just to articulate his faith, his conviction, as to what he believes the Scripture teaches.

IMO, I do not think any IL can be in the middle here; at least if we read the statement made by the COPs as documented in this post. It appears an IL signer is required to state where he/she stands.

By not showing where you stand, by default you have announced your colour - it is yellow. Thus, let them know. This is a great opportunity to make your confession known.

LPC


Anonymous said...
This is starting to put things, around me, in a certain perspective.
What does this mean, to laity, who signed, those deemed non members?

What exactly, is being done & what are those who stand fast & firm, in for?
Heidi Stoeberl
Pastor Spencer said...
Heidi,

I'm not sure, frankly, what this means. I have spoken to the synod President about this. It is my understanding that each District President will handle this in his own way.

I can say this much: I have had dozens of contacts from Pastors around the synod who have said they are not going to change the way they preach and teach, namely, that we justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace. To a man, they have deemed this debate "an argument over words." Ovbiously, Pastor Rydecki does not see it that way, and neither does the CoP. So, exactly how this will play out in the end - God alone knows. Again, I say, let Pastor Rydecki explain his position thoroughly and completely, and let the Pastors and people "test the spirits." (First John 4:1)

Thank you.

Pastor Spencer
Rev. Paul A. Rydecki said...
Just to remind everyone, I was perfectly willing and even eager to continue studying the doctrinal issues with my brothers in the WELS in order to determine if it was all just "an argument over words." I wasn't the one condemning people as false teachers or calling on them to repent for their teaching on justification. Not once. It was the WELS leadership that determined I was the false teacher and called on me to repent for teaching that sinners are only justified through faith in Christ. So at this point, if one believes that it was all "an argument over words," then what will he do with the WELS COP that has condemned a man (and divided a congregation) over a simple matter of words? It seems to me that one cannot sit on this fence for too long.