Sunday, November 10, 2013

Classic Ichabod - Another Children's Sermon from WELS
I Am So Glad Jesus Rode a Hog.
Scott Oelhafen

Sunday, November 30, 2008

Another Children's Sermon from WELS



Harley Davidson - Our theme for today's WELS sermon.


WELS Pastor Scott Oelhafen, the author of this...uh....the author.


I Am so Glad that Jesus Rode a 'Hog'

A sermon by Pastor Scott Oelhafen

August 31/September 1, 2003 - Pentecost 12

Text: Luke 8: 26-39
(Posted but no longer available on the congregation's website--Trinity, Waukesha)

[GJ - That particular Sunday marked the 100th anniverary of Harley Davidson. Few ministers can manage a product tie-in so deftly. I hope the Harley Davidson folks preserved this commercial message on their website.]

1. He proved His heavenly horsepower
2. He promoted His heavenly mission
(Special thanks to Trinity member Greg Heichelbeck for parking his Harley Davidson motorcycle in front of our church for this sermon and for loaning me his Harley merchandise for this service).

Dear friends of Jesus,
They came this past week all dressed up and places to go. Did you see them? They came motoring across the country, state, and city, revving their engines. Undoubtedly, you heard them. From the city streets, to the parking lots and even in the hallways, their mommas were proud of them. It was truly a sight to behold. Of course you, know what I´m talking about. School started this past week and students, staff, and parents returned to the classroom. Okay -- that´s not what I´m referring to. Unless, you´ve been sequestered in a cabin in the Northwoods for the past few months, you´ll know that Metro-Milwaukee has welcomed more than an estimated half-a-million Harley-Davidson motorcycle enthusiasts. With their world headquarters here in Milwaukee, Harley-Davidson is celebrating its 100th birthday. It´s a popular motorcycle company holding 46% of the sales in North America.

We have a number of Trinity members that are associated with Harley. If you talk with them, they´ll tell you why someone wants to buy a Harley. They´ll tell you that when a customer is buying a Harley, he or she is buying an image first and a motorcycle second. So what´s the image of Harley-Davidson? Most people get their image from the movies like The Wild One in 1953 or Easy Rider in 1969. Harley riders are pictured as big, tough, rebels without a cause. But, remember these words, your mom probably first spoke to you: “don´t always judge a book by it´s cover.’ Some years ago a young, single school teacher decided to travel across America to see the sights she had taught about. Traveling alone in a truck and a camper in tow, she found herself on Interstate 5, near Sacramento, California. In rush-hour traffic, wouldn´t you know it, her water pump blew. She was tired and scared. In spite of the traffic jam, no one seemed interested in helping her. Leaning up against her trailer, she finally prayed, and this was her prayer: “Please God, send me an angel .. preferably one with mechanical experience.’ Four minutes later, a huge Harley drove up, ridden by an enormous man, sporting long black hair, a beard and multiple tattoos. With an incredible air of confidence, he jumped off hisHarley, barely glanced at the young woman, and went to work on the truck. Within another few minutes, he flagged down a large truck, attached the tow chain to frame of the disabled truck. He whisked the truck off the freeway to a side street where he continued to work on the truck. The intimidated teacher was too overwhelmed to speak -- especially, when she read the paralyzing words off his leather jacket – “Hell´s Angels, California.’ Yes, God had sent her an angel she wasn´t expecting. As he finished the repair, she finally got up the courage to say: “Thanks so much.’ Noticing her fear, he looked right in her eyes and simply said: “Don´t always judge a book by it´s (sic) cover. You may not know who you´re talking to.’ And with that, he smiled, closed the hood of her truck, and straddled his Harley. He was gone as quickly as he appeared. “Don´t judge a book by it´s cover.’ Good advice – especially when it comes to the greatest person in history – Jesus Christ. Most people who saw Jesus weren´t impressed by Him. Jesus didn´t have the kind of education or degrees that would´ve attracted attention. He didn´t come from a prominent family – just the adopted son of a carpenter from an unknown hick-town known as Nazareth. Isaiah told us ahead of time in his prophesy concerning Jesus Christ: He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him (Isaiah 53:3). Most people would call Jesus the original “rebel without a cause.’ He certainly didn´t fit in to what most people were expecting in a Savior. Sadly, most people of His day dismissed Jesus as unimportant and irrelevant (like many do today). Jesus didn´t fit in to their lifestyle and His Word didn´t appeal to their way of thinking. So they wrote Jesus off. In doing so, they missed out on a God-centered purpose for life now, and an eternity with God in the future. Let´s not make the same mistake. You probably know the nickname for Harley-Davidson motorcycles, don´t you? They´re known as hogs. If you could see the divine Jesus walking among us, I´d like to think that that Jesus could identify with us as human beings. And I´ll bet that even Jesus would ride a Harley this weekend. I don´t know He´d choose a Harley model like Low-rider, Fat Boy, or Heritage. But, as our sermon text will show us, I Am So Glad that Jesus Rode a Hog. In the Biblical account of demon-possession, we´ll hear again how Jesus rode those demon-possessed hogs or pigs, right out of town. But, Jesus did this for good reasons. Jesus Rode Those Hogs to prove His divine horsepower. And Jesus Rode Those Hogs to promote His heavenly mission.

I find it very interesting, and maybe you do too, that of all the places to go in the United States, Milwaukee, Wisconsin has been chosen by Harley-Davidson riders as they (sic) place to be. It´s a place by a lake. Listen to another gathering by another lake, albeit a smaller one, that´s recorded for the ages for us to visit time and time again. Listen as our sermon reading begins: 26 They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes,[2] which is across the lake from Galilee. 27 When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!" 29 For Jesus had commanded the evil[3] spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places. Demon possession still attracts a lot of curious fans, especially in college or around Halloween. Just look at the movies that will be advertised in the coming few weeks. Most people just laugh demon possession off as a Steven Spielberg movie trick or pure science fiction. But, our sermon reading shows us that demon possession is fact, and happens more than we realize. The Bible tells us that there´s a spiritual world behind what we can see (and beyond what news agencies report on), and both angels and demons are locked in a spiritual battle (thank God the book of Revelation tells us that the good angels triumph as do all Christian believers). Think about how horrible demon possession would be: to be controlled by a will not your own. The man of our reading had been demon possessed for some time, away from his family, living among tombs. Actually this Biblical account is recorded in 3 of the 4 Gospel writers. The Gospel writer Mark tells us that the demon would make the man cut himself and cry out at night. What suffering! Listen to what happened next: 30Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" 31"Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. Notice how many demons were in this man. A Roman legion of soldiers numbered between 3000-6000. Incredible – a good-size city (3000-6000) of demons were controlling this man. How horrible, and hopeless! But, one more powerful than Legion had come to this place by a lake and the demons had to acknowledge him. Notice the demons knew who Jesus was: the Son of the Most High God. Though many are quick to dismiss Jesus, even these demons had to admit His identity and bow at his feet. And they knew that Jesus hadn´t come to save them but to judge them. For Jesus had come to do battle with them and they only could retreat. When demons are faced with Jesus – they always lose. Listen to what happened next. 32A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. 33 When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. To prove that Jesus has all power of heaven and earth at His disposal, and to prove His horsepower as the Savior, Jesus Rode Those Hogs right out of town. For demons are always destructive.

So let me ask you, can you relate to this account of Jesus? I doubt that many here have been in the presence of the demon: Legion. But, each of us has demons that we have to reckon with. Some of us have to daily face the demons of addiction – maybe it´s the demons of drugs, alcohol, pornography, gossip, or materialism (the quest for more and more). Maybe you just can´t stop. Others have to struggle with the demon of death, that makes you feel all alone because your spouse or parent has died and you may feel abandoned. Still others have to face demons of fear, disease, or divorce. We feel trapped and don´t have a ghost of a chance to escape on our own. We can find help only when we begin to realize that we were born as rebels without a cause, rebelling against our creator in what we say, think, and do and deserve nothing but eternal punishment. Yet, remember the Savior´s presence and His words: Come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest (Matthew 11:28). Jesus took our demons, sins, and shame to the cross where He paid the ultimate price – His sufferings and death. Better than a car repair, He paid our way into heaven. And He walked out of the tomb to free us from the ultimate demon of death. Now, He invites us to come to Him and He will give us exactly what we need. Sometimes Jesus chooses to remove those demons with continued prayer, Bible study, and angels of all shapes and sizes who will help us. Sometimes, He chooses to let these demons remain – but always providing His almighty presence, peace, and power. Remember, Jesus Rode a Hog to prove His heavenly horsepower.

But, Jesus also rode that Hog to promote His heavenly mission. Jesus just did what no one else could do. He healed a man who was demon possessed. But, listen to two very different responses to Jesus´ saving activity as our sermon text concludes: 34 When those tending the pigs saw what had happened, they ran off and reported this in the town and countryside, 35 and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. 36 Those who had seen it told the people how the demon-possessed man had been cured. 37 Then all the people of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, because they were overcome with fear. So he got into the boat and left. 38 The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 "Return home and tell how much God has done for you." So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him. Can you imagine the crowd shuffling Jesus out of town, after all the good He had done? That´s what happens when people are inconvenienced by Jesus and His Word for our lives. Even though they know the truth, they don´t want what Jesus has come to bring: a new life, a new change from being selfish to being self-less, a change from following sin to following the Savior. And this reaction is the scariest part of our reading – people can actually reject Jesus. You and I can reject Jesus. And Jesus doesn´t force Himself on anyone and He does leave if He´s continually rejected. The second reaction was more amazing and had a happy ending. Jesus had come to be the Savior of the World. That demon possessed man knew it and wanted to tell others. Here we have an unusual witness but one that we can relate to. Jesus gives us the same command: start at home, and let´s talk with our families, friends, and neighbors how Jesus has freed us from Satan´s grip for a life of love and concern for others. There´s no better purpose in life. We too can promote Jesus´ heavenly mission as the Savior of the World. And we can do that today by our encouragement to others, by our invitations, by our offerings and prayers. There just might be someone we know who can be freed from their personal demons if we connect them with Jesus.

Yesterday, I took my family to the Waukesha Expo Center and waterfront by Lake Michigan to see the gathering of Harleys by Lake Michigan. It was amazing to see the chrome bikes, the black leather clothes, and the black and orange t-shirts. But, I guess I was most surprised by the vintage tattoos. I wonder what would happen if I came home with a tattoo to my wife Christine. Do you think she´d like it? The only thing I´d have to wonder about is the pain of removing that tattoo :). But, think about it: you get a tattoo to always remember. Do you realize that each of us are tattooed to God´s hands by virtue of our baptism? We´re tattooed into God´s family, which is even better than being a part of the Harley family. Isaiah tells us in the Bible that God has engraved you on the palms of His hands (Isaiah 49:16). God can always see us and see a way for us to be rescued from our earthly and more important eternal problems. So the next time you see a Harley, I pray you´ll remember: Even Jesus Rode a Hog, to prove His Horsepower and promote His heavenly mission. Amen.

***

GJ - The apple does not fall far from the tree. Wally Oelhafen was in charge of the Michigan District Mission Board, and he loved, loved, loved the Church Growth Movement. Wally only got angry when the CGM was criticized.

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Sceleratissimus Lutheranus has left a new comment on your post "Another Children's Sermon from WELS":

I'm speechless, this is the worst example of preaching I've seen to date. You know the definition of a synod is supposed to be people walking together in common support of the Gospel, but I think WEL"S" is now composed of different elements going in different directions. Sorry, as an Orthodox Lutheran I cannot walk in harmony with this CG/Church and Change bilge!
 
Nicely done. I think Jesus would use any means possible - just like he DID. Peace.
TL Boehm
http://www.eloquentbooks.com/BethanysCrossing.html
 
What exactly is wrong with the sermon? I heard the law and the gospel in there.

I thinks it's a good illustration. What do you think Jesus would ride ;) a trike?

Advent blessings,

Fred Guldberg
Star of Bethlehem
Winston Salem, NC
Collapse this comment
 
Here's the WELS version of a Robert Tilton sermon turning fruits of Faith into law.

"Or, has it been a while since we’ve made a special, voluntary “vow?” For example, our Stewardship Committee asked all of our members to consider contributing toward our congregation’s debt reduction program. I don’t know names or households who are participating in the program. Have you done it? Or have you made any other special vows of action or offerings out of love and thanks to the Lord? These are all questions asked of churchgoers here this morning, perhaps surprising questions. Yet when God speaks to us like this, we soon see their appropriateness as we see our sinfulness and selfishness. May God forgive us for the sake of his Son who gave his life on the cross so that we might have forgiveness! Our reading closes with the results that come from God-pleasing worship. God speaks and says, “He who sacrifices thank offerings honors me, and he prepares the way so that I may show him the salvation of God." Two results come from our offerings:
· God is honored as we show what he is worth to us
· We “prepare a way” for God to do marvelous things in our life, things we perhaps have never envisioned
So today, as we hear this message after we’ve come to God’s house, may we take these lessons to heart. May we learn what God’s OT people needed to learn about their worship and offerings and repent of our sinful attitudes. Then, may our Savior Jesus give us reason to worship and bring him gifts! May he bless us through his Word and sacrament in his house and may we bring him the best of what he’s blessed us with. Amen."

http://www.htlc-wa.org/home/140004986/140004986/140047070/111618Sermon.pdf?sec_id=140004986
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I'm speechless, this is the worst example of preaching I've seen to date. You know the definition of a synod is supposed to be people walking together in common support of the Gospel, but I think WEL"S" is now composed of different elements going in different directions. Sorry, as an Orthodox Lutheran I cannot walk in harmony with this CG/Church and Change bilge!

Brett Meyer versus Gary - Intrepid Lutherans



http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/11/the-lutheran-understanding-of-2.html#comment-form

Vernon Knepprath said...
Gary,

I've been giving your question(s) some thought, and I don't think I can give a "yes" or "no" answer. Striving again to keep it simple, I see the theology of the confessional Lutheran, including our salvation/justification, as being consistent with the "theology of the cross". By that I mean that true confessional Lutheranism, consistent with Scripture, is not about us. It's not about what we do or how we feel. It's about what God has done for use. God has created us, He has redeemed us and He sanctifies us through the means of grace. This seems to be the main point of your question. In that regard, I really like Brett's statement about every aspect of our jusification being objective in the sense that it is entirely the work of God. This is one of the few cases of the use of the word "objective" that I have heard over the past few years that I would say fits quite well with Scripture.

Vernon
Gary said...
I agree with Brett's statement that salvation is all God, that it does not involve us, but isn't that the exact same thing I said in my previous statement?

Faith is a gift from God. The sinner does nothing to produce it or earn it. The moment of salvation occurs when God chooses to quicken the dead soul of the sinner by the power of his Word at the moment of Baptism or by the preaching of the Word. That is the moment that the sinner is "gifted" faith. The sinner is NOT saved (receives the promise of eternal life) until God chooses to give him faith. The fact that Christ has already paid the penalty for all his sins does the sinner no good until God chooses to give him faith in (the majority of instances) his Baptism. The LCMS and WELS do not deny faith is needed for salvation, but it is not man's faith, it is God's. "For by grace are you saved, through faith..."

I have never heard a "UOJ" pastor preach that the sinner produces faith in order to be saved or that because the sinner is already "objectively justified" by Christ's death on the cross, that he is already saved, without Baptism or without the power of the preaching of the Word saving him.

Am I missing something?
Brett Meyer said...
Gary, my quote from Martin Luther was in response to your statement, "When Martin Luther spoke of being justified by faith, he was not talking about an evangelical "born again" experience... What Luther meant is that the just, the saved, shall live by faith, they do not need to live a life of fear that they must frantically do good works to assist in their justification, to decrease their torment in Purgatory"

Whether you agree with him or not, what he clearly meant by men being justified by faith is that faith in Christ alone is our sole justifier. In fact he clearly condemns the doctrine of UOJ because the doctrine of UOJ teaches that faith is nothing (and definitely not the righteousness of Christ) but an empty hand receiving what is already declared to be true - UOJ's object of faith is a declaration of justification which supposedly came before and without faith, without the Means of Grace and without the Holy Spirit working through either. UOJ's faith is the false faith Martin Luther speaks of when he states, "To accept as true the record of Christ--this they call faith. The devils have the same sort of faith, but it does not make them godly. Such belief is not Christian faith; no, it is rather deception."

Luther's statements are Scripturally sound and faithful to the Christian Book of Concord. It would help if you would detail what you reject about Luther's statements that I posted.

Regarding your statements at 11:05AM - We all understand that UOJ teaches salvation is by faith alone.
What is under contention is that Scripture and the BOC teach that an individual is only acceptable to God the Father through the gracious gift of faith in Christ alone.
That the forgiveness of sins is by faith alone so that it might be by grace alone. Romans 4:16
That an individual is only declared/considered righteous by God the Father solely through the gracious gift of faith in Christ alone.
That an individual is only reconciled to God the Father solely through the gracious gift of faith alone.
That God's wrath and condemnation over man's sin abides, remains, on everyone who doesn't have faith in Christ alone.
That God is not double minded as UOJ teaches where He is at the same time reconciled to the unbelieving world (UOJ teaches this is also true for believers) while they are under His abiding wrath and condemnation.
That the forgiveness of sins is Life and Salvation. UOJ separates the two in contradiction to God's Word.Romans 5:17-18 where 'justification of life' and 'reign in Life' is eternal salvation.

You state, "
WELS DP Jon Buchholz and lead pike in the WELS war on Justification solely by faith alone stated, "The forgiveness acquired by Jesus for all at the cross gives us confessional Lutherans, among all the church bodies of the world, the highest motivation to share our Savior. In contrast to the “Jesus Saves” churches, we don’t preach a salvation that is incomplete and just waiting for the sinner to do something to complete the transaction. We proclaim boldly, “Jesus Saved,” past tense, finished, certain." Page 23
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BuchholzJustification1.pdf
Gary said...
If Brett's statement above is meant to say that Luther believed that "Catholics" were, and are not today, saved, then the Church ceased to exist sometime shortly after Nicea up until October 31, 1517. That sounds a lot like the fundamentalist Baptists who state that the Church disappeared after the last apostle died and reappeared with the first Baptist, John Smith.

So much for the "Gates of Hell" not prevailing against Christ's Church.
Brett Meyer said...
Sorry, got ahead of myself. I meant to include your quote.

You state, "I have never heard a "UOJ" pastor preach that the sinner produces faith in order to be saved or that because the sinner is already "objectively justified" by Christ's death on the cross, that he is already saved, without Baptism or without the power of the preaching of the Word saving him."

WELS DP Jon Buchholz.......
Brett Meyer said...
Gary, do you believe that a Roman Catholic who is 100% faithful to the official teachings of the Catholic Church is a Christian and saved?

Please elaborate on your answer. Thank you.
Gary said...
Response to Brett's 11:05 statement:

Correct me if I am wrong, Brett, but it sounds like you are saying that the sinner must produce faith to be saved. That sounds awfully synergistic.

We receive God's gift of grace, through HIS gift of faith. God "gifts" you faith to receive his grace (his gift of the forgiveness of sins and eternal life." The sinner does not produce his own faith to receive God's grace. That was what I was taught as a fundamentalist Baptist and evangelical growing up. These groups refuse to believe that God saves infants in Holy Baptism because they believe that an infant cannot believe, because an infant cannot make a decision to have faith and accept God's "free gift" of salvation. However, by requiring the sinner to make a decision, and requiring that the sinner possess sufficient intelligence and maturity to understand the concept of "how to have faith", which is the same as saying, "how to produce faith out of my own abilities", that is not a free gift, that is a transaction. I bring my faith to the salvation transaction table and God brings forgiveness and eternal life, we agree to do a trade, and WA-LA, I am now saved by (my) faith!

THAT is Synergism, and is NOT Lutheran!

You sound like you are saying the same thing as the Baptists and evangelicals, Brett. I sincerely hope that I am misunderstanding you, brother.
Brett Meyer said...
Gary please elaborate - what exactly did I say that sounded like "the sinner must produce faith to be saved (forgiven)"?

Also, could you respond to my 1:14pm question as it was in response to your statements directed at my confession. Thanks.
Gary said...
"In contrast to the “Jesus Saves” churches, we don’t preach a salvation that is incomplete and just waiting for the sinner to do something to complete the transaction. We proclaim boldly, “Jesus Saved,” past tense, finished, certain."

I don't have all the context to Pastor Buchholz' comments but if he was saying that everyone in the world is saved because Christ "saved everyone" on the cross, or that all the Elect are BORN saved, then he is dead wrong. He is teaching, with the former, universalism, and with the latter, a form of Calvinism.

I highly doubt that either interpretation is what he meant.

My guess is that what he meant was this: Your redemption, your "ticket" to heaven, has already been purchased by Jesus Christ in his death on the cross and by his resurrection. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY WORK TO BE SAVED! This free gift from God is yours. It is not a reward for good deeds or good behavior. It is free! All that is necessary to receive the benefits of this free gift is this: Believe/Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

When someone gives you a free gift, when is it yours? Is it yours... only after YOU make a decision that you want it, and then reach out and take it? No. If you refuse to reach out for it, the giver gives it to someone else or takes it back to the store??

No! The free gift if yours the very second that your Father decided he wanted to give it to you! It is yours without your decision. It is yours without you reaching out for it. It is your gift, regardless of anything that you do or don't do.

But if after your Heavenly Father places your gift in your lap, you throw it on the floor, and walk away from him...you will fail to receive any benefit from his gift...and will perish in hell. But it was yours, not because YOU decided to accept it by faith, but because your Father willed it to by yours.

Faith, given to you by God, receives grace. "Previent" grace does not produce faith. That is Arminianism. That is Synergism. That is not Lutheran.
Brett Meyer said...
Gary, allow me to briefly address your statements.
”All that is necessary to receive the benefits of this free gift is this: Believe/Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins”
According to the doctrine of UOJ, which you defend, the individual already had his sins forgiven before he was baptized. Why do you then repeat “and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins”? UOJ makes baptism nonsensical.

“No! The free gift if yours the very second that your Father decided he wanted to give it to you! It is yours without your decision. It is yours without you reaching out for it. It is your gift, regardless of anything that you do or don't do.”
The doctrine of UOJ teaches God divinely declared out of His omnipotent will that the whole unbelieving world has had their sins removed, debt eliminated by the merits of Christ and therefore He declared them justified, righteous and worthy of eternal life. Since it is their own ‘regardless of anything you do or don’t do’ they are saved.

”But if after your Heavenly Father places your gift in your lap, you throw it on the floor, and walk away from him...you will fail to receive any benefit from his gift...and will perish in hell. But it was yours, not because YOU decided to accept it by faith, but because your Father willed it to by yours.
So you’re saying if an individual doesn’t throw God’s gift on the floor they will benefit from Christ’s righteousness and justification which He gave them – they will be saved eternally. Also when you make the bolded statement you are confessing that faith is a work of man and that the forgiveness of sins and salvation are available without faith in Christ.

”Faith, given to you by God, receives grace.”
Your statement is a bit jumbled and it’s due to the doctrine of UOJ which separates Grace and Faith. UOJ teaches men are justified by grace alone – no faith. UOJ teaches men are saved by faith in their preceding justification. By this teaching UOJ rejects Scriptural justification and God’s Will and Word when in Romans 4:16God declares, “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,”

Also, and again, please elaborate - what exactly did I say in my 12:17pm comment that sounded like "the sinner must produce faith to be saved (forgiven)"?

Also, could you respond to my 1:14pm question as it was in response to your statements directed at my confession.
Thanks. 
Gary said...
Brett said "So you’re saying if an individual doesn’t throw God’s gift on the floor they will benefit from Christ’s righteousness and justification which He gave them – they will be saved eternally."

No, I'm not saying that. If I believed that I would be Baptist.

What I'm saying is that the sinner has zero ability to choose righteous, to choose or produce faith, or to choose God. They cannot choose any of these things because sinners do NOT have a free will in spiritual matters. Believers/Christian DO have a free will in spiritual matters.

After the free gift of salvation is mine, by God's grace alone, received through his gift of faith alone, I as a Christian can abandon, out-right reject, or neglect my faith and perish in hell for all eternity.

Lutherans do not believe in "eternal security" otherwise known as "once saved, always saved".
Gary said...
I will answer your question regarding Roman Catholics with this preface: As I said in a previous comment, I grew up fundamentalist Baptist. I was taught that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the following people to get into to heaven; to be truly saved:

--people who believe that salvation occurs at the time of Baptism
--people who cannot recall a specific day when they prayed a version of the Sinner's Prayer in which they asked Jesus into their hearts, repented of all sins, and promised to live a life pleasing to God.
-anyone who does not believe in "eternal security".


So what they were teaching in a nutshell was this: What you believe determines whether or not God will save you. That is the epitome of Synergism!

I believe that God commands us to baptize all nations: senior citizens, middle aged adults, young people, teenagers, children and infants. I don't find anywhere in Scripture where Christ or his apostles gave a "Doctrine Test" prior to baptism. I believe that anyone wanting to come to the waters of Baptism, should be baptized, without needing to pass screening tests. If the priest/pastor is a corrupt servant, that does not effect the validity of your Baptism. If you didn't have all the correct doctrinal beliefs at the time of your Baptism, that does not effect the validity of your Baptism. Even if you came to the font under false pretenses (you just wanted to have an "in" with the pretty Lutheran girls in the church), that doesn't effect the validity of your Baptism. Unlike the Baptists, we would not re-baptize that person after they admitted their previous false profession of faith and now made a seemingly genuine profession. Why wouldn't we Lutherans re-baptize this "faker"? We wouldn't re-baptize this man because salvation is not dependent on sinners, their beliefs, or their decisions. Salvation is all God. God says he saves when the Word is spoken and water is applied, so we must believe him and accept the validity of all Trinitarian baptisms.

So what about the Roman Catholics?

Rome does not teach that one must pay money to the Church, climb 20 flights of stairs, or perform so many good deeds before God will save you in Holy Baptism. They teach that God saves by his grace in Holy Baptism, received through faith. Where they go wrong is in their use of the word "justification". They teach that AFTER God saves you in Baptism, you as a believer must do good deeds to complete your "justification". Unfortunately most Protestants take that to mean "complete your salvation". The RCC does NOT teach that if you don't do enough good deeds you will go to hell. What they teach is that you must do good deeds to pay the temporal punishment for sins committed after Baptism. Any of these sins for which you have not made "satisfaction" must be "satisfied" after your death by purification in the fires of Purgatory.

The only way a believer loses his salvation and goes to hell when he dies is the same as for Lutherans: by a rejection, abandonment, or neglect of his faith manifested by mortal sins.

I believe that what a Roman Catholic "believes" regarding his justification plays no role in hindering the effectiveness of Baptism. Why? Because God's Word says he saves in Baptism. It doesn't say that he only saves in Baptism if the sinner believes the correct doctrine...or is old enough or mature enough to make a decision to have faith.

Faith is a gift from God. Sinners do not produce faith. If you believe that they do, you are an Arminian.
Gary said...
I believe that a Trinitarian-baptized Roman Catholic is saved, just like every other sinner, due to God's gifting him eternal life in Holy Baptism. I believe that this same Roman Catholic will remain saved as long as he believes in Christ as his Savior and God and genuinely repents regularly of his sins. Whether he understands that his believing and repenting are based on a concept called "faith", is irrelevant. Jesus said that little children are members of the Kingdom of God and that adults should have the faith of these same children. Ask your five year old to explain the concept of "faith" to you. I doubt he will pass the Beliefs Test. Then ask your child if he believes in and loves Jesus, you will most likely receive a very simple answer: Yes! I believe!

Any person who trusts in his infant baptism alone to get him into heaven...may wake us one day to a rude shock...the flames of hell!
Brett Meyer said...
Gary, thank you for your responses.

Amoung others of your statements, these stand out for me:
"So what they were teaching in a nutshell was this: What you believe determines whether or not God will save you. That is the epitome of Synergism!"
"The only way a believer loses his salvation and goes to hell when he dies is the same as for Lutherans: by a rejection, abandonment, or neglect of his faith manifested by mortal sins.

I believe that what a Roman Catholic "believes" regarding his justification plays no role in hindering the effectiveness of Baptism. Why? Because God's Word says he saves in Baptism. It doesn't say that he only saves in Baptism if the sinner believes the correct doctrine..."


I disagree with you. What is believed is a direct reflection of what is in your heart and therefore a direct reflection of what your faith rests upon. If a man's faith rests solely on Christ and Him crucified then that faith is a gracious gift from the Holy Spirit having been worked through Word and Sacrament. If it rests upon anything else than that faith is from man and by it's trust in something other than Christ alone it is condemned. False faith, faith that rests in a false declaration of justification that happened without faith in Christ alone, or rests in anything but Christ alone is a rejection of the baptism that the person may have received (assuming a baptism rightly administered). The following Scripture verses confirm.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I appreciate your articulation of this particular confession/belief because it does explain why so many downplay the eternal conflict between UOJ and JBFA. I wonder how many more people in the Lutheran Synods have this same belief.

Jay Webber and SpenerQuesters Plant Their Flag at Easter Absolution.
1. They Are Halle Pietists.
2. They Have a Calvinist Concept of the Word

Those familiar with the English language can detect a polemic
against the essence of UOJ argumentation.
Quenstedt must have been arguing against
nascent Pietistic distortions of the Gospel.
Boisclair cannot overcome this clear statement.
Robert Preus clearly repudiated UOJ claims with his own statements
and by quoting Calov and Quenstedt.


This man Rambach, a Halle stud,
is the star witness for the UOJ philosophy
of Webber, his catechumen Buchholz, and the Spenerquesters.

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Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

In this exchange between the Superintendent of the ACLC (Rev. Lawson) and the architect of ELDoNA's doctrine of Justification (Rydecki) an Abraham Calov quotation for the Easter Absolution springs up as a beautiful flower:

http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/

"Christ's resurrection took place as an actual absolution from sin (respectu actualis a peccato absolutionis). As God punished our sins in Christ, upon whom He laid them and to whom He imputed them, as our Bondsman, so He also, by the very act of raising Him from the dead, absolved Him from our sins imputed to Him, and so He absolved also us in Him" (Bibl. Illust., ad Rom. 4:25; quoted in Pieper, vol. III).

C.F.W. Walther was an ardent student of the orthodox dogmaticians, and that's where he got the Easter Absolution from.
[GJ - No a Halle Pietist, trained by Bishop Stephan in UOJ.]
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Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 9:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Unwittingly the ardent opponent of the Easter Absolution, Paul Rydecki, cannot get away from the fact that Gerhard and Calov were speaking of an absolution/justification on the first Easter Day. Rydecki tries to explain away these quotations in a manner that John Calvin would be proud of, but the problem is that as the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification works, GERHARD AND CALOV ARE SPEAKING OF JUSTIFICATION AS OCCURRING BEFORE an individual's coming to faith. Paul Rydecki too is an anonymous advocate of THE EASTER ABSOLUTION.
[GJ - Boisclair should read Justification and Rome - just once.]
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Joe Krohn (Jekster)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Rydecki and company are forcing a square peg into a round hole by attempting to apply what is clearly objective, subjectively.
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Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

What did that absolution effect? in other words what effect did that absolution have?
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Joe Krohn (Jekster)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 1:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

The atonement effects the redemption/absolution...OBJECTIVELY.
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Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair)
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Posted on Friday, November 08, 2013 - 6:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post

Joe, continue to extol the Easter Absolution! 

By the way, if as the ELDoNA theses declare one may not speak of absolution with respect to our Lord Jesus Christ because he was not a sinner as we are sinners, then they question the Vicarious Satisfaction itself. Christ was the Greatest Sinner as Luther said by the LORD laying on Him the iniquity of us all (Is. 53:6).
[GJ - This is proof positive of Pietisim - the dogma of Rambach.]

These numbskulls keep patting each other on the back for being Enthusiasts. The Book of Concord suggests we extol the Means of Grace, not the unBiblical Easter Absolution of the unbelieving world.






Calvin took over the Enthusiasm of Zwingli, but wrote more elegantly - his arrogance was more subtle, except when he mocked the Real Presence in the Institutes.

Zwingli and Calvin divorced the work of the Holy Spirit from the Word, which is the UOJ gambit. This mysterious absolution took place (apart from any Scriptural support) without the Spirit, without the Word.

By endorsing UOJ, the neo-Zwinglians extol an imaginary event. This is not a harmless gambit but a dangerous and soul-destroying dogma.

"Make a decision for UOJ" is
the opposite of justification by faith.


You must accept the Easter Absolution,
enshrined in the halls of Halle University,
but not recorded anywhere in the Bible.