Sunday, February 16, 2014

Septuagesima Sunday, 2014. 1 Corinthians 9:24 - 10:5. Run the Entire Race



Septuagesima Sunday, 2014

Pastor Gregory L. Jackson


Bethany Lutheran Church, 10 AM Central Time


The Hymn #132                           O God of God                                    3:55
The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual       
The Gospel              
Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed p. 22
The Sermon Hymn # 151            Christ the Life                       2:78

Running the Complete Race, Not Just One Heat

The Hymn # 227     Come Holy Ghost                             2:72
The Preface p. 24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn #409   Let Us Ever Walk                              2:91

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.  25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.  26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:  27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;  2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;  4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.  5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

KJV Matthew 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. 8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14 Take that thineis, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Septuagesima Sunday

Lord God, heavenly Father, who through Thy holy word hast called us into Thy vineyard: Send, we beseech Thee, Thy Holy Spirit into our hearts, that we may labor faithfully in Thy vineyard, shun sin and all offense, obediently keep Thy word and do Thy will, and put our whole and only trust in Thy grace, which Thou hast bestowed upon us so plenteously through Thy Son Jesus Christ, that we may obtain eternal salvation through Him, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost, one true God, world without end. Amen.



Run the Entire Race

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Early on, I learned one thing about "conservative" Lutherans. They were good for one heat, but not for all the other qualifying races - and the final one. One heat was enough and they were done.

Paul's comparison here is directly from the world of sports. Athletics were very important to the Hellenistic world. The early Greeks would stop a war and hold an athletic contest with the same men. Later, they would take the field and go back to war again. Nothing kept them from sports - just like today.

Winning was very important. The Emperor Nero made sure he always won, because it was not enough just to be there.

This is a beautiful comparison to remaining faithful all our lives, not just for a time. I was reading on the Net about runners establishing a pace so they can win a long-distance run. Many sprint out ahead but fail before the race is finished.

One famous Evangelist bragged that he "owned Toronto." He was a big deal for a brief time, but he lost faith and dropped out. His sprint was not good to reach the finish line. And yet he published the fact that he once was number one.

W. F. Buckley said about Kissinger - he completed 3 out of 4 laps and then collected his prize to the cheers of the crowd, while the others finished the race. That was his commentary about the Nobel Prize and the Viet Nam war.

The battle is often recast as if one moment in time matters. Paul says - all are running this race. But only one wins the prize. Run to win the race, not just to be in the opening where the herd starts out at once.

Relatively few remain faithful. I can look at my peers who were confirmed in old-fashioned liturgical churches. They had thorough training. One now is a Hindu. Another one just lost a parent - but there will be no funeral. I read on the Internet about various former Lutherans who went this way and that - such as Steve Jobs, who was famous for being a celebrity Buddhist.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

The crown in those days was a circle of laurel leaves, not the gold crown we often imagine. More importantly, the word crown is the name Stephen. I believe this is a deliberate word-play to remind the believers of that first martyr - Stephen - who was faithful unto death. Even as they were killing him, Stephen witnessed to his faith.

So often mankind is misled into thinking in terms of doing rather than believing. But it is in believing that all our actions are shaped. If we start on the side of doing, we fall into justification by works thinking.

That is so common. When asked about departing from the faith, many clergy will answer, with some wrath, "Do you know what I have done?" 

In the race analogy, keeping one's eye on the finish line means subordinating everything to that. The runner will select the right shoes, adhere to the right diet, and keep up the training regimen. One famous boxer, Rocky Marciano, was famous for training far beyond anyone's expectations. He did that for one reason - to outlast the other boxer. And he did.

Navy SEALs train so that they have to jump into ice cold water when they are so exhausted they are falling asleep. They have to learn to ignore the natural need for sleep and make another effort, beyond anyone else's ability.

This crown is incorruptible. Eternal life means being with Christ forever and enjoying the consummation of all His promises. But that also means having a life where the Word is under attack and we tire of that battle.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:  27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

The footrace is a good comparison, because anyone can visualize the troop of runners starting out and the weaker ones falling away. Talking does not win the race. 


Paul compared his work to running and to fighting. He wanted to complete the race (as in Pilgrim's Progress) and to fight the good fight. Just as pagan false teachers come to our doors for conversion, so do opportunities for the Gospel being taught.

Remaining faithful is the big challenge, because events can discourage us at times. We can waver in our desire to hear the Gospel. But trusting in the Savior, we have our particular roles and crosses laid out for us by God. Desiring only the best for us, He gives us challenges and times of apparent drought. The challenges revive our spirit and hunger for the righteousness of faith. The times of apparent drought help us appreciate His blessings even more.

I was getting tired of publishing, probably just tired of grading papers. And then a new way of finishing e-books came up . That made it fun. And the justification by faith debate started over again.

People talk about the Good Ol' Days. These are the Good Ol' Days. Justification by faith has not been taken seriously by the Synodical Conference in the longest time. I will let others determine when the last time was. At best, it was 30 years ago.

New generations are learning what faith in Christ means. They are opening up the Book of Concord and finding today's issues in front of them. They are reading Luther, learning and chuckling at his humor - but profoundly affected by his spiritual wisdom derived from the Word.

Others have said it for centuries, as Chemnitz did - "We are living in the last days of an insane, old world." Whenever that last day might be, we should still be running and slugging away, not fainting or shadow-boxing.



Only in WELS - That "Straight" Synod Where Two Gay Men Take Over a Congregation - With the Help of Synod Leaders.
And the PR Director Is in the Hoosegow


I was thinking about the possibility of practicing on the organ at St. John's Evangelical Lutheran Church on 8th and Vliet once it opens again as a congregation. Karen Beaumont and I were thinking the church will not reopen as a congregation at anytime soon. I saw this on the Face Book page of the congregation and Pastor Hastings mentioned something that one of the long time congregation members was hoping the church would reopen after all of this stupid stuff with these two gay men gets resolved. If the church does reopen, I would like to get in there at some point to practice on the organ.

Another thing Karen mentioned to me (and we talked about this), was that the organ hasn't really been worked on in a number of years other than that Petersen module, whatever it is, being installed. Last time I heard and saw the organ was at Karen Beaumont's concert in fall of 2012. It had some nice string stops like you mentioned and there were some stops I came across in the stop list. Did any of the reed stops ever work for you? Just wondering.

At this point, does it look like the congregation of St. John's is dissolved or do you forsee the church reopening at some point in time? I think this whole gay thing was very stupid to begin with and that these two members did this terrible thing to Pastor Hastings and the congregation. I hope something will be done to where the church can reopen and Pastor Hastings can continue his work as a pastor.

Anyway, have a great weekend and let me know if anything has happened regarding whether the church will reopen and I can try out the organ for myself. Talk to you later.

Mike Keegan

Before Steadfast Lutherans (!) Erase the Thread, As They Did for Darwin Schauer - Pastor Paul Rydecki Defends Justification by Faith
Against Jay Webber's Rationalistic Halle Pietistism

My great-uncle Fritz is amused by people promising grace without the Means of Grace,
justification without faith.


http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=35105

A Statement on Justification from the ACLC

February 14th, 2014Post by 
A while back, the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America adopted a statement on the doctrine of justification that decisively rejected the teaching of objective/subjective justification – which had been an earmark of the “Synodical Conference” tradition of Lutheranism. The pastors of the Association of Confessional Lutheran Congregations, which up until now has been in fellowship with the ELDoNA, have now prepared a formal theological response to the ELDoNA document, which is available on the ACLC website. I am not a member of, or a spokesperson for, the ACLC, so I would not expect to be discussing their document very much in this forum. But since their document does address a subject that I have discussed on this blog in the past (here and here), and since those previous posting garnered quite a bit of discussion among the readers of this blog, I thought that it would be of interest to those readers also to made aware of these developments, and of the ACLC document.

Categories:Pastor David Jay WebberTags:




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  1. February 14th, 2014 at 13:09 | #1
    Wouldn’t a complete rejection of justification as taught by Scripture make the ELDNA guilty of preaching “another gospel” as St. Paul called it, thus essentially disqualifying them as being Christian?
  2. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 14th, 2014 at 16:00 | #2
    Actually, what the reader of the ACLC statement will find is very little theology and very (very) many vain accusations of “logical fallacy,” and even the bizarre accusation of the ELDoNA having separated from Article IV of the Augsburg Confession. Fear not. Far from “completely rejecting justification as taught by Scripture,” the ELDoNA completely embraces justification as taught by Scripture and as confessed in the Augsburg Confession and throughout the Book of Concord. As for the completely false and unfounded accusation made in the above comment, I don’t think it’s helpful for a self-proclaimed “closet Calvinist” to be casting such aspersions on the ELDoNA’s confession of the Gospel. But if anyone wishes to discuss the actual content of the ELDoNA’s Theses on Justification in the light of Scripture and the Confessions, that could be productive.
  3. February 14th, 2014 at 18:03 | #3
    I am so sick of this whole thing. Just like J. Dean above claims that ELDoNA is “not Christian”, so there is an anti-OJ guy named Brett Meyer going around the blogosphere claiming in comments that LCMS and WELS are “apostate”, “not Christian”, and “deny sola fide.
    If falling on either side of this inter-Lutheran debate made someone “apostate,” than all of Christendom would be apostate except for a certain number of Lutherans.
    Let us abandon the inflammatory and hostile rhetoric, shall we?
  4. Joe Krohn
    February 14th, 2014 at 18:14 | #4
    So you are satisfied with both sides, Nicholas?
  5. February 14th, 2014 at 18:25 | #5
    Interestingly, this hostile calvinistic anabaptist Steve Hays attacks Lutherans for believing in Objective Justification:http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-death-of-lutheranism.html
  6. February 14th, 2014 at 18:27 | #6
    I’m on the LCMS’ side on the issue. But other people can be wrong without being heretics (heterodoxy versus heresy).
  7. Joe Krohn
    February 14th, 2014 at 18:38 | #7
    Pr. Rydecki, with all due respect; According to Is. 53:
    “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
    And: “…by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
    There is a correlation here of bearing all the sin or sins of men resulting in a justification (an objective one) of those whose sins He bore. A parallel passage is Rom. 5:18. However, on many occasions you have denied this as well as the ELDoNA Theses. Yes, a man even receives this justification through faith. The bigger issue is a man un-justifying himself through un-faith since the gift of justification has come over all men.
  8. February 14th, 2014 at 18:53 | #8
    Rev. Paul Rydecki :
    Actually, what the reader of the ACLC statement will find is very little theology and very (very) many vain accusations of “logical fallacy,” and even the bizarre accusation of the ELDoNA having separated from Article IV of the Augsburg Confession. Fear not. Far from “completely rejecting justification as taught by Scripture,” the ELDoNA completely embraces justification as taught by Scripture and as confessed in the Augsburg Confession and throughout the Book of Concord. As for the completely false and unfounded accusation made in the above comment, I don’t think it’s helpful for a self-proclaimed “closet Calvinist” to be casting such aspersions on the ELDoNA’s confession of the Gospel. But if anyone wishes to discuss the actual content of the ELDoNA’s Theses on Justification in the light of Scripture and the Confessions, that could be productive.
    Pr. Rydecki,
    In just reading the first 8 pages of the document I have found quite a bit of solid theology and citations from our Lutheran fathers pertinent to the issue you have raised. I look forward to reading the document in full.
    BTW, where there is mention of logical fallacies, I think it is correct to raise them and they should be addressed.
  9. February 14th, 2014 at 19:04 | #9
    “Instead of justification by faith alone as the doctrine on which the church stands for falls, we now have justification minus faith.”
    This shows that Steve Hays is not reading the right blogs, if he wants to understand what mainstream Confessional Lutherans actually teach. Objective justification is not antithetical to justification by faith. Rather, it is what makes justification by faith possible. The sinner’s justification in Christ is received by faith. That’s the whole point. Justification is received. God does not create a new and separate justification for each believer,within the believer’s faith. Instead, what God does is to deliver his justification to the penitent sinner in and through the means of grace. And those who believe God’s Word receive, by faith, what is delivered to them.
    “Justification by faith alone” does not mean justification without Christ, without Christ’s life, without Christ’s death, without Christ’s resurrection, without Christ’s means of grace. “Objective” justification is about all those things. Without them, justification by faith “alone” would be nothing more than an existentialist mirage.
  10. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 14th, 2014 at 19:23 | #10
    To state what should be obvious, “justification by faith alone” also does not mean justification without faith. And yet Objective Justification teaches that God has declared the whole world of sinners to be righteous, not by faith in Christ. That’s not the teaching of the Scriptures.
  11. February 14th, 2014 at 19:45 | #11
    Jesus lived for the whole world of sinners. Jesus died for the whole world of sinners. Jesus was raised from the dead for the whole world of sinners. Jesus offers the means of grace to the whole world of sinners. And so yes, the objective side of justification pertains to the whole world of sinners. And the objective side of justification – that is, the justification of Christ himself; and in Christ of those for whom he lived, died, and rose again – is for the sake of faith. It elicits and invites faith. It is the object offaith. So, in that important evangelical sense, it is not “without faith.”
  12. February 14th, 2014 at 20:08 | #12
    Pr. Rydecki,
    One thing I have noticed from those of you who reject the Objective nature of justification, is that you are missing the forensic declaration concerning what the Lamb of God accomplishes for the entire human race. Sin enters the world and condemns the whole of it through Adam, and Jesus’s works removes, yes nails to the cross, the sins of the whole world. The Father responds to the works of Jesus on the cross and declares the world righteous. I just don’t get how you miss that.
  13. February 14th, 2014 at 20:42 | #13
    At a very basic level, without objective justification there is no absolution. It cannot be offered to everyone if it is not objectively true. Also, the objective nature of justification and the objective nature of Christ’s presence in the Sacrament by the speaking of the words, apart from faith, are parallel.
  14. Joel Dusek
    February 14th, 2014 at 20:50 | #14
    Good to see Pastors Rydecki and Webber debating this, as that should eliminate some of the misunderstandings as to what the two viewpoints mean.
    Is this an accurate statement of the positions?
    Side A: “God has declared Jesus righteous and all people everywhere to be righteous because of Jesus, and this is true whether a person believes it or not”. (Objectivity applies to belief.)
    Side B: “God has declared Jesus righteous and all people who believe in Him to be righteous, with no contribution from those people whatsoever”. (Objectivity applies to works.)
    If so, I’m on side B, though I agree there is such a thing as objective truth, (whether a person believes it or not). However, no one is justified – that is, declared righteous – without faith.
    Thanks, look forward to more clarity on this important point.
  15. February 14th, 2014 at 21:13 | #15
    “God has declared Jesus righteous and all people everywhere to be righteous because of Jesus, and this is true whether a person believes it or not.”
    Instead of “because of Jesus,” a better way to say this would be “inJesus.” “Because of Jesus” could imply that the justification of Jesus comes first, and then the justification of the world of sinners takes place after that and as a follow-up to that. But in actuality, the justification of Jesus is the justification of the world of sinners, since he was justified vicariously on their behalf and in their place – just as he had been condemned, and had suffered and died, vicariously on their behalf and in their place.
  16. Joe Krohn
    February 14th, 2014 at 21:18 | #16
    Please explain how your position relates to Isaiah 53:11.
  17. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 14th, 2014 at 22:00 | #17
    Yes, Jesus died for the whole world of sinners. But the Scriptures do not teach that the whole world of sinners has been justified. 2 Cor. 5:21 is very plain on this point. God made Him to be sin for us (yes, all people), so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. We become the righteousness of God by faith in Him. That’s it. This notion of Christ being justified, and all people having been justified when He was justified, is not founded on any Scripture. There is only one way revealed in Scripture for sinners to be justified, and it’s by faith in Christ.
    What elicits and invites faith is the sweet Gospel that God loved the world in such a way that He gave His Son for the world so that whoever believes in Him may not perish but have everlasting life. What elicits and invites faith is the universal will of God for the salvation of all men, and that His call to repent and believe the Gospel is seriously intended for all. This notion that God has already justified all sinners without faith is by no means the object of faith, nor can it be, because it has no word of Scripture to support it.
    There is no Biblical record of this supposed forensic declaration upon unbelievers. Likewise there is no Scriptural record of the Father responding to the works of Jesus by declaring the world righteous. None. You can’t miss what’s not there. What there is in Scripture is the declaration of the Father that He justifies the one who believes in Jesus (Rom. 3:26) and that He counts faith for righteousness (Rom. 4:5-8). What there also is in Scripture is God’s declaration that all who do not believe in Jesus are not justified, but stand condemned already (Jn. 3:17-18).
  18. Joel Dusek
    February 14th, 2014 at 22:00 | #18
    @Pastor David Jay Webber #15 
    Pastor Webber, thanks for your response. If I understand you correctly, the different phrases change the timing of justification, and would you agree that either “because of Jesus” or “in Jesus” does not change thedeclaration itself, that Jesus and all people are declared righteous?
  19. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 14th, 2014 at 22:00 | #19
    @jgernander #13 
    At a very basic level, without objective justification there is no absolution. It cannot be offered to everyone if it is not objectively true.
    This statement contradicts Jesus’ plain words in John 20:23. If the Son of God authorizes His apostles to absolve people of their sins, then they are so authorized, and the forgiveness pronounced with the loosing Key is pronounced in heaven itself. In fact, God has no other way of forgiving sins than through the Word. Likewise, 2 Cor. 5:19-20 declares the ministry of the Word to be the very means by which God reconciles the world to Himself.
    Further, absolution is not offered to everyone. Christ does not authorize His apostles to absolve the impenitent, but He does command them to absolve the penitent.
    In order for me to believe that God grants me forgiveness of sins in Holy Baptism, I do not first have to believe that He has already granted forgiveness of sins to all people apart from Baptism, nor does He first have to have forgiven all people apart from Baptism. He tells me Baptism saves me. That is more than enough.
  20. Bryan Lidtke
    February 14th, 2014 at 23:40 | #20
    I don’t get into this debate much because it generally confuses me, but on the side of the screen here, Augsburg Confession IV is quoted. It says that “people are freely justified for Christ’s sake, through faith.” It seems pretty straightforward to me. If all people are justified regardless of whether they believe or not, why include “through faith”?
  21. Dutch
    February 15th, 2014 at 06:09 | #21
    This debate, has muddied waters for me. As I was taught, & understand it, wrong as it may be, is simply this: I was taught, Justification, occurred at the Cross. Sanctification, occurred by the One Who was to come, the Holy Spirit, that is His ground. He, the Holy Spirit, who is worthy of worship & praise, always seems to be lost & at times, forgotten, in far too many a debate.
    This debate, decades long, as I understand, sometimes seems far to academic & forensic. Citing this, quote who & that. How can we be academic & forensic, with what the Holy Spirit, is & does?
    Just looking at the basic definitions of Justification & Sanctification,their differences between the two, it seems pretty simple & basic to me. I’ve read many of these papers, for both sides. I see alot of names I do not know, but Scripture in It’s context, as we are taught to take it & use it, appears to be very lacking. Can either side, only allowed to use Scripture first, & only Luther, second, lay out the issues?
    I sit in a pew. How does this academic & forensic analysis, which is simple to me, I was taught by the best of men, pertain to me? The Holy Spirit, & all the mysteries of how & what He does, are absent, in both accounts. Why?
  22. February 15th, 2014 at 08:17 | #22
    Dutch, you & I are on the same page.
    On one side we have a tacit denial of the work of the Holy Spirit. Faith as is written in Holy Scripture comes by hearing the Word of God by men drawn by the Holy Spirit. Work is at the Hand of the Holy Spirt NOT man!
    So both sides are lacking somewhat because of this leaving out by both sides the Third Person Of The Trinity. Having said that, my LCMS Brothers have the truth, although they are shy about bringing the Holy Spirit to bear because that leads to Election, a Very Dangerous path to travel!
    So what we are left with is the LCMS Position with the Holy Spirit drawing the Elect.
    And this has to be dealt with great care lest one falls into other false derivatives that go against the clear teaching of Scripture one the 1580 BOC
    PAX
    IXOYC
  23. Jais H. Tinglund
    February 15th, 2014 at 09:06 | #23
    Rev. Paul Rydecki :
    To state what should be obvious, “justification by faith alone” also does not mean justification without faith.
    And to state what is equally obvious to any Lutheran, and equally important for a sinner to know to have any comfort in the faith: “justification by faith alone ” does not mean “justification by faith in your faith alone”, rather, the “faith” in the equation is faith in something, namely what God has already done and declared and now has His Church proclaim (rather than propose, as a mere possibility).
  24. Jais H. Tinglund
    February 15th, 2014 at 09:12 | #24
    Rev. Paul Rydecki :
    Likewise, 2 Cor. 5:19-20 declares the ministry of the Word to be the very means by which God reconciles the world to Himself.
    And clearly 2 Cor. 5:19-20 points out that God does this by having His Church calling sinners to be reconciled to God, and doing so on the grounds that God Himself has already reconciled Himself, namely by making Him who knew of no sin to become sin for us, so that we are that no more, but rather have become the righteousness of God in Him …
  25. Jais H. Tinglund
    February 15th, 2014 at 09:21 | #25
    Rev. Paul Rydecki :
    To state what should be obvious, “justification by faith alone” also does not mean justification without faith.
    And to state what is equally obvious to any Lutheran, and equally important for a sinner to know to have any comfort in the faith: “justification by faith alone ” does not mean “justification by faith in your faith alone”, rather, the “faith” in the equation is faith in something, namely what God has already done and declared and now has His Church proclaim (rather than propose, as a mere possibility).
  26. Jais H. Tinglund
    February 15th, 2014 at 09:25 | #26
    @Rev. Paul Rydecki #10 
    To state what should be obvious: “justification by faith alone” also does not mean justification without faith.
    And to state what is equally obvious to any Lutheran, and equally important to for a sinner to know to have any comfort in the faith: “justification by faith alone” does not mean “justification by faith in your faith alone”, rather, the “faith” in the equation is faith in something, namely what God has already done and declared and now has His Church proclaim, rather than propose as a mere possibility.
  27. Sven Wagschal
    February 15th, 2014 at 10:50 | #27
    What Pastor Rydecki is missing is the very basic point that the ministry is only able to proclaim and distribute the forgiveness of sins, life and justification because of that which god has actually done in Christ, because “god was in Christ and reconciled the world to himself.” (2 Kor 5,19) Only because of this work of god the father and the son the spirit is coming and dristibuting his gift of salvation by baptism, the preached word and the absolution, only because of the objective justification of the whole world from Adam to the last man ever to be burn before Christ returns. But this does mean that all these man will be saved, because many a man (or most of them) do not believe this message, and such a man “trample [s] underfoot the Son of God, and [...] profane[s] the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outrage[s] the Spirit of grace”. (Hebr 10,29; there the whole sentence is not presence, but perfect.)
    Note: you do not have to “*first* believe that He has already granted forgiveness of sins to all people”, you have to believe that god has granted you forgiveness by, in and through the death and resurrection of Christ, and that in baptism you receive exactly this forgiveness (and in the word, and in the absoltion, and in the holy supper). Christian faith is this faith and none other. You receive this objective justification by faith and are now as subject justified (which is called accordingly “subjective justification”).
    In 2 Kor 5,19-20 Paul makes exactly this point: Because of god’s reconciling the world with himself in Christ, therefore his disciples go and bring this reconciliation to the peoples. Without objective justification there would be nothing to preach and to distribute.
    Luther in his two-part book “On the holy supper. Confession” from 1528 actually writes about this in his “Confession”. You may look it up here:https://archive.org/stream/lutheronsacramen00luth#page/416/mode/2up
    He writes (page 417-418):
    526. There are three persons and one God, who has given himself to us wholly and perfectly, with all that he is, and all that he possesses. The Father gives himself to us, with heaven and earth, together with every other creature, in order that they may serve us, and contribute to our necessities. But through the fall of Adam, this gift is obscured and rendered unavailable. For this reason, the Son afterwards gave himself also to us, he bestowed upon us all his works, his sufferings, his wisdom and righteousness, and reconciled us with the Father, by which we, living and restored again, might know and possess the Father also with his gifts.
    527. But because this grace would be accessible to no one, if it remained confined so profoundly, and could not come to us, the Holy Ghost therefore descends to us and bestows himself wholly and entirely; he teaches us to know this beneficence of Christ which has been manifested to us; he helps us to receive and preserve it, to use and impart it effectually, to increase and extend it: internally, by faith and other spiritual gifts, but externally through the gospel, through baptism, and the Sacrament of the Altar, by which he comes to us, as through three media or means, and exercises the sufferings of Christ in us, and employs it for the promotion of salvation.
    This is Luther’s confession (when he feared that he would dy soon and heretics would come and try to base their heresies on his name), it is the confession of all Lutheran fathers, and it is the confession of the Lutheran Church (you will notice that this piece is the ground for Luther’s teaching in the Small and Great Catechism on god in the first commandment and in the Apostle’s creed).
  28. February 15th, 2014 at 11:10 | #28
    Having read and studied this document:
    With great sadness I openly ponder how Pastors can reject the Holy Scripture, the clear teaching of the 1580 BOC, and historic Lutheran interpretation of such. In the above document the men’s doctrine is stripped naked and paraded for all to see.
    I openly wonder, having closely followed and been active in the genesis of this, and wanting to put this all to a misunderstanding; “no this is not what I meant but…….”.
    Repentance is possible only through the Holy Spirit.
    And the sum of it all is Repentance.
    May the men of the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America see the truth of the above document and Repent.
    PAX
    IXOYC
  29. February 15th, 2014 at 13:04 | #29
    Rev. Paul Rydecki :
    @Jim Pierce #12 
    There is no Biblical record of this supposed forensic declaration upon unbelievers. Likewise there is no Scriptural record of the Father responding to the works of Jesus by declaring the world righteous. None. You can’t miss what’s not there. What there is in Scripture is the declaration of the Father that He justifies the one who believes in Jesus (Rom. 3:26) and that He counts faith for righteousness (Rom. 4:5-8). What there also is in Scripture is God’s declaration that all who do not believe in Jesus are not justified, but stand condemned already (Jn. 3:17-18).
    Respectfully I must point out you are in error with your claim. Please read the following from Francis Pieper:
    2. Justification is not a physical or medical act (actus physicus sive medicinalis), by which the unrighteous man is changed by an inward transformation into a righteous man, but a judicial act (actus forensis sive iudicialis) by which the person who is in himself unrighteous is declared righteous.
    Justification is purely a judicial act. But it differs essentially from the declarations which are handed down in human courts. There the judge pronounces the righteous man righteous and the guilty man guilty. If he pronounces the guilty man righteous, he is an abomination to God (Prov. 17:15). But this very thing which the judge may not do God does when He justifies a man through the Gospel and faith. God pronounces the “ungodly” righteous (Rom. 4:5). The Apology calls attention to this difference between the actus forensis in the divine justification and the actus forensis in civil courts. “Therefore, since in this passage our righteousness is the imputation of the righteousness of another, we must here speak concerning righteousness otherwise than when in philosophy or in a civil court we seek after the righteousness of one’s own work” (Trigl. 207, Art. III, 185). Luther calls the teaching that the divine method of justification must be patterned after the rule governing human courts of justice “the venom of Satan” and “the most pestilential pest [pestilentissima pestis],” St. L. V:517. It is characteristic of all good Papists and poor Protestants to set up the principle that God can declare only such people righteous as are righteous in themselves, having kept the Law or at least desiring to keep it; it would be unethical for God to employ any other method of justification.
    However, God will not be counseled by men. As He has declared the righteous Christ to be unrighteous (”made Him to be sin,” 2 Cor. 5:21), so He declares men, who in themselves are unrighteous, to be righteous—He “justifieth the ungodly” (Rom. 4:5). Those who criticize the divine mode of justification ignore the divine mode of redemption. They have entirely forgotten that God placed His incarnate Son under the duty and curse of His Law, in the stead of man (Gal. 4:4–53:13); and having thus satisfied the demands of His justice, He now, through the Gospel and faith, justifies those who in themselves are unjust, who have transgressed all the commandments of God.
    Δικαιοῦν is always used in the New Testament in the declaratory, the forensic sense. Moreover, according to Scripture, God pronounces “the ungodly” righteous, “without the Law,” “without the deeds of the Law,” therefore without making any moral demands whatever on man; Scripture counts faith, to the exclusion of human worth and human works, for righteousness.Rom. 4:5: “To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” This passage proves conclusively that justification is a forensic, declaratory act.
    Pieper, F. (1953). Christian Dogmatics (electronic ed., Vol. 2, pp. 524–525). St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House.
    Here Pieper provides ample Scriptural support for the teaching that there IS a “forensic declaration upon unbelievers.” Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is for the whole of the human race. Denial of the objective nature of justification is a rather large departure from the doctrine of our Lutheran confession. Indeed, as Pieper points out:
    An essential prerequisite of justification by faith, or of subjective justification, is the objective justification (the reconciliation) of all mankind. If God had not in His heart justified the whole world because of Christ’s vicarious satisfaction, and if this justification were not offered in the Gospel, there could not be a justification by faith. All those who deny the objective justification (the objective reconciliation) will, if they would be consistent, also deny that subjective justification is brought about by faith; they will have to regard faith as a complement of Christ’s merit—a human achievement. But objective reconciliation is the clear teaching of Scripture. Also our Lutheran Confessions base justification by faith on the fact that God is reconciled with the world and offers the forgiveness of sins as a gift (res promissa) in the Gospel. Apology: “When we believe that God, for Christ’s sake, is reconciled to us, we are justified freely by faith.” “Remission of sins is something promised for Christ’s sake. Therefore it cannot be received except by faith alone. For a promise cannot be received except by faith alone.” (Trigl. 147, Art. IV [II], 87; 145, ibid., 84.)
    Pieper, F. (1953). Christian Dogmatics (electronic ed., Vol. 2, p. 508). St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House.
    Of course, you are already familiar with what Pieper states, Pr. Rydecki. I think it important to answer your claim directly for the sake of our readers.
  30. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 15th, 2014 at 13:36 | #30
    Joel Dusek :
    Is this an accurate statement of the positions?
    Side A: “God has declared Jesus righteous and all people everywhere to be righteous because of Jesus, and this is true whether a person believes it or not”. (Objectivity applies to belief.)
    Side B: “God has declared Jesus righteous and all people who believe in Him to be righteous, with no contribution from those people whatsoever”. (Objectivity applies to works.)
    Joel, I wouldn’t use this language at all with regard to God “declaring Jesus righteous.” God revealed Jesus to be righteous at every point of His earthly life, from His conception, to His Baptism, to His transfiguration, to His death on the cross, to His resurrection. At no point did Jesus cease to be righteous. Even when our sins (i.e., the sins of the world) were imputed to Him and He was punished for them, He remained the Righteous One. Christ was righteous, but was counted a sinner by God. He never needed to be “absolved” or “justified” as sinners do, because He never ceased being righteous. He was “shown to be righteous,” He was “vindicated.” This is the sense of the one verse in Scripture that applies the Greek verb “dikaioo” (to justify) to Jesus (1 Tim. 3:16). There is no “vicarious justification” even hinted at in that verse.
    Conversely, at every point of our earthly lives, all men remain sinners. Even when the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us by faith, we remain sinners who are counted by God to be righteous, not with a righteousness of our own, but with the imputed righteousness of Christ.
    This cannot be said of unbelievers. They are sinners who are still counted as sinners by God. They have never been counted as anything but sinners.
    So, Joel, I would simplify your statement above to the following: “God has punished Jesus for the sins of all people, and all who trust in Him are declared by God to be righteous, without any merit or worthiness on their part, because God has clothed them in the righteousness of Jesus by faith in Jesus.”
  31. February 15th, 2014 at 13:36 | #31
    Pr. Rydecki,
    I would also like to add what Martin Chemnitz writes in this regard, too.
    Paul himself shows this with a most beautiful statement in 1 Cor. 4:3–4: “I am not aware of any charge against me, but in this I am not justified.” He adds the reason for this: “Because I am not judged by a human court, nor do I judge myself.… It is the Lord who judges me.” And in Rom. 4:2: “If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.”
    Thus, the use of the legal term “justification” refutes the ideas of the Epicureans. For it shows that the justification of the sinner is not some insignificant or perfunctory thing, but that the whole human being stands before the judgment of God and is examined both with respect to his nature as well as his works, and this according to the norm of the divine law. But because after the entrance of sin a human being in this life does not have true and perfect conformity with the law of God, nothing is found in this examination, whether in the person’s nature or in his works, that he can use to justify himself before God; rather the Law pronounces the sentence of condemnation, written by the very finger of God Himself.
    Now God does not justify the ungodly by some kind of mistake, as a judge often makes a faulty decision by failure to examine the evidence sufficiently or by wrong thinking; nor through indifference, as if He did not care about the transgression of His law; nor through wickedness, as if He approved of our iniquity, connived with it, or were in collusion with the impious. A justification of this kind God Himself pronounces to be an abomination, Ex. 23:1Is. 5:23Prov. 17:15. God cannot retract the sentence of condemnation revealed in the Law, unless it is perfectly satisfied or fulfilled, Matt. 5:18.
    Thus righteousness and satisfaction are required where God is to justify. Luther is correct when he says that God remits no sin unless the Law has been satisfied with regard to it. In the case of human judgment, to be sure, guilt is absolved either because of some preceding merit (for they are accounted worthy who deserve to be forgiven), or with respect to present righteousness and innocence either of the cause or of the person, or with respect to a satisfaction which the guilty party promises to make either to the judge or to his opponent in the case. But before God’s judgment man can put up nothing in his own defense in order that he might be justified, as many very clear Scripture passages declare.
    Therefore, because God does not justify out of frivolity, unconcern, error, or iniquity, nor because He finds anything in man whereby he might be justified before God; and yet the just requirement of the Law must be fulfilled in those who are to be justified, Rom. 8:4, therefore a foreign righteousness must intervene—the kind of righteousness which not only with payment of penalties but also with perfect obedience to the divine law made satisfaction in such a way that it could be a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. 
    To this the terrified sinner, condemned by the voice of the Law, flees in true faith. This he desires, begs for, lays hold of; to this he submits himself; this he uses as his defense before the judgment seat of God and against the accusation of the Law. By regard for this and by its imputation he is justified, that is, he is absolved from the comprehensive sentence of condemnation and receives the promise of eternal life. This is what Paul is saying in Rom. 3:31 : “The doctrine of the righteousness of faith does not destroy the Law but upholds it.”
    Chemnitz, M., & Preus, J. A. O. (1999). Loci theologici (electronic ed., p. 481). St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House.
    Please notice what I have bolded.
  32. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 15th, 2014 at 13:47 | #32
    Mr. Pierce, did you miss what Pieper said in your own quote? Even Pieper got this right. God doesn’t declare the unbeliever righteous at all, because to be just, God can only declare a sinner to be just if that sinner is covered in the righteousness of Another. That happens by imputation of the righteousness of Christ, which happens by faith in Christ.
    …and having thus satisfied the demands of His justice, He now, through the Gospel and faith, justifies those who in themselves are unjust, who have transgressed all the commandments of God.
    God doesn’t first justify all people, and then impute the righteousness of Christ to those who believe. He imputes the righteousness of Christ to believers. He does it “through the Gospel and faith.” They are “ungodly” in themselves, but “righteous” by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ.
    So, I appreciate the quote!
  33. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 15th, 2014 at 13:49 | #33
    May the men of the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America see the truth of the above document and Repent.
    Every single man of the ELDoNA has much of which to repent every day, but may God so do to us, and more also, if we repent of our confession that all men are sinners and are justified solely by faith in Christ. And may God judge between us and those who condemn our Christian confession.
  34. Sven Wagschal
    February 15th, 2014 at 13:54 | #34
    @Rev. Paul Rydecki #32 
    “God doesn’t first justify all people, and then impute the righteousness of Christ to those who believe.”
    I see. So God did not reconcile the world to himself?
    ” He imputes the righteousness of Christ to believers. He does it “through the Gospel and faith.” They are “ungodly” in themselves, but “righteous” by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ.”
    Of course. This is indisputed by all parties here.
  35. February 15th, 2014 at 13:59 | #35
    Pr. Rydecki,
    First, I answered your false claim which is “There is no Biblical record of this supposed forensic declaration upon unbelievers.” Both Chemnitz and Pieper give you the Scriptural basis for this “forensic declaration.”
    Second, Pieper writes, “An essential prerequisite of justification by faith, or of subjective justification, is the objective justification (the reconciliation) of all mankind. If God had not in His heart justified the whole world because of Christ’s vicarious satisfaction, and if this justification were not offered in the Gospel, there could not be a justification by faith. ” So, how do you answer Pieper? Pieper provides you with the Scriptural basis for objective justification.
  36. February 15th, 2014 at 14:10 | #36
    Perhaps Rev. Rydecki is making the same mistake I made when I first heard the doctrine of Objective Justification: namely, that it came across as “universalism” as in all are saved and redeemed period, with or without faith.
  37. Pr. Jim Schulz
    February 15th, 2014 at 14:30 | #37
    I simply start with and stick to a confessional definition of justification:
    “Only God’s grace, Christ’s merit, and faith belong and are necessary to the article of justification. Faith receives these blessings in the promise of the Gospel, by which Christ’s righteousness is credited to us. From this we receive and have forgiveness of sins, reconciliation with God, sonship, and are made heirs of eternal life.” Solid Declaration III:25.
    Because of what “belong to and are necessary” to the article of justification, any talk of so-called “objective justification” without so-called “subjective justification” is to stray from a confessional definition of justification.
    I have noticed a change from speaking of “objective justification” and “subjective justification” (as if those were two separate doctrines of justification) to speaking of the “objective side” and “subjective side” of justification. I think that’s a good sign.
  38. R.D.
    February 15th, 2014 at 14:35 | #38
    @Rev. Paul Rydecki #33 
    “And may God judge between us and those who condemn our Christian (sic) confession.”
    That statement strikes fear into my heart for your sake, Rev. Rydecki. Please return to the Word and repent.
    All,
    This “debate” reminds me of a church I visited while traveling a couple of years ago. The retired snow-bird meddling pastor was teaching a bible class, claiming the Bible is full of “if and then” statements. He claimed the 3rd article of the creed was actually only about redemption. He essentially argued eldona’s justification, faith in faith.
    My widowed-mother and I went to work skewering him in front of his clueless class (for all you kids out there, having the catechism memorized was very useful!) And like eldona’s theses, the fake pastor had nothin’ to back up his bad theology. Oddly familiar, he tried to quote Robert Preus!
  39. February 15th, 2014 at 14:51 | #39
    Because of what “belong to and are necessary” to the article of justification, any talk of so-called “objective justification” without so-called “subjective justification” is to stray from a confessional definition of justification.
    Jim, Since no one has done that – at least not during the past decade or so of this debate – why mention it? It could give the impression that you are trying to stake out some sort of balanced middle ground between the two extremes of this debate. But in reality, the side that recognizes the legitimacy of the objective/subjective teaching is the side that is already staking out that balanced and Biblical middle ground. Kurt Marquart – whose teaching we accept, but whose teaching Pastor Rydecki rejects – said this already 13 years ago:
    A contemporary clarification of justification would have to begin with what the Formula of Concord calls “the only essential and necessary elements of justification,” that is, (1) the grace of God, (2) the merit of Christ, (3) the Gospel which alone offers and distributes these treasures, and (4) faith which alone receives or appropriates them (SD III.25). The first three items define the universal/general dimension of justification (forgiveness as obtained for all mankind on the cross, proclaimed in the resurrection [see Rom 4:25 and 1 Tim 3:16] and offered to all in the means of grace), and the fourth, the individual/personal dimension. No one actually has forgiveness unless and until he receives it by faith. This distinction between forgiveness as obtained for and offered to all, and that same forgiveness as actually received and possessed, is often described (as in the English translation of Pieper’s Christian Dogmatics) with the words “objective” and “subjective.” …
    The right teaching here must defend the fullness of our Lord’s saving work against the denial of sola gratia (grace alone) by Rome on the one hand and against the denial of universalis gratia (universal grace) and the means of grace by Geneva on the other. Only the Church of the Augsburg Confession teaches the article of justification in its evangelical truth and plenitude, that is, both grace alone and universal grace, and therefore also the means of grace! (“Augsburg Revisited,” in 2001: A Justification Odyssey, pp. 173-74)
  40. Pr. Jim Schulz
    February 15th, 2014 at 15:01 | #40
    Jay, it seems to me the terms “Objective Justification” and “Subjective Justification” have not been helpful in teaching the doctrine of Justification by Faith Alone. Look at all the confusion the terminology has and continues to create. So good, let’s be clear: there are objective and subjective features of the doctrine of Justification, not two separate stand alone doctrines of justification: one without faith and one with faith.
  41. Thomas
    February 15th, 2014 at 18:35 | #41
    In my view, Mr. Pierce is correct that Dr. Pieper has made an unassailable in case in favor is objective justification. The Doctor’s Scriptural references are plentiful and dispositive. Clearly, all the sins of all mankind were put upon Jesus when He went to the cross. His resurrection proves that the Father has accepted His payment for all these sins. This forgiveness and salvation is individually appropriated through faith in Jesus Christ. When people refuse Christ, they are refusing a forgiveness and salvation that has already been prepared for them. That, of course, is one of the many tragedies that befall people who die in unbelief. That being said, I have a mentor who is a member of a COGIC church. She is unbelievably enthusiastic about Christ and seems to find a great deal more comfort in the Gospel than many Lutherans I know. Maybe these sterile theological debates are part of the problem. I understand the historic Liturgy and its purpose and all that, but I really wish that the orthodox Lutheran faith had a little more enthusiasm (I know, a bad word) about Jesus. I get a little tired of the funereal air of the worship service. Isn’t the Gospel good news? Maybe I should just join a COGIC church.They love the Lord and don’t seem to waste a great deal of time worrying about this kind of thing. I used to love tedious theological hair-splitting like this, but know I just want to know and love the Lord. What does Jesus say? “I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.” That’s good enough for me these days.
  42. February 15th, 2014 at 19:04 | #42
    Church Of God In Christ
    Church of God in Christ
    Pentecostal Holiness church founded by Elder Charles Harrison Mason in the late 1890′s. Comprehensive official site, including directory of congregations.
    Thomas you are very honest!
    I see your point. Having said that I find your comments about Dr. Piper very telling. Yes Orthodox Lutherans do get unbelievably enthusiastic (that bad word—- again) about doctrine because eternal salvation rests upon this foundation.
    Most of the people on this post are Pastors in charge of Flocks.
    The flock has to be properly nourished on the pure Gospel and false doctrine rooted out.
    The pastors arguing these points are having to carefully research the Holy Scriptures, the 1580 Book of Concord, and Lutheran historic works.
    I as a layman do not want a pastor that does not have a proper basic knowledge of the above.
    A person takes from a worship service what he brings to the service.
    Thank that comment over carefully before you rebut.
    PAX
  43. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 15th, 2014 at 19:29 | #43
    Jim Pierce :
    @Rev. Paul Rydecki #32 
    Pr. Rydecki,
    First, I answered your false claim which is “There is no Biblical record of this supposed forensic declaration upon unbelievers.” Both Chemnitz and Pieper give you the Scriptural basis for this “forensic declaration.”
    Actually, no, you still provided no Biblical record of a forensic declaration of righteousness upon unbelievers. Chemnitz speaks of faith itself as the “forensic appeal to the throne of grace,” as a result of which, the believer is justified. Pieper’s basis for the forensic declaration, in the quote you provided above, is the very righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer. Without such imputation, no one is justified. So you haven’t at all shown that all unbelievers have been declared righteous in God’s courtroom.
    Second, Pieper writes, “An essential prerequisite of justification by faith, or of subjective justification, is the objective justification (the reconciliation) of all mankind. If God had not in His heart justified the whole world because of Christ’s vicarious satisfaction, and if this justification were not offered in the Gospel, there could not be a justification by faith. ” So, how do you answer Pieper? Pieper provides you with the Scriptural basis for objective justification.
    And here Pieper is in error. He provides no Scriptural basis for this claim at all, but philosophizes that it must be so. The Scriptures do not tell us about justification happening “in the heart of God.” That’s Enthusiasm. The Scriptures teach that God’s Spirit justifies through the Word. God offers justification in the Gospel as a promise of what He will do / does do for the believer on the basis of Christ’s atonement, not as the passing on of a one-time act of justification in the past.
    I recommend this new publication from Repristination Press, which presents the teaching of the diocese on this subject.
  44. February 15th, 2014 at 20:22 | #44
    Pr. Rydecki,
    Of course, both Chemnitz and Pieper provide the Scriptural basis for objective/subjective justification. Pieper didn’t merely “philosophize” but writes extensively in his Dogmatics concerning this topic. Indeed, anyone may pick up volume two and begin reading from page 347 to find a detailed treatment of the teaching of objective/subjective justification. To try to wave away Pieper’s work from the Scriptures as one who “philosophizes” is dishonest and is the sort of rhetoric I expected from a Jacksonite. Indeed, it pains me to see you adopt the tactics of the Jacksonites.
    You know that I have written on this topic here at BJS (see here if you have forgotten). I have went “around the block” many times with the Jacksonites on this subject. So, at any rate, if you are interested in re-reading the Scriptural basis for the teaching of objection/subjection justification, then please follow the link I provided in addition to the citations I have already provided. The comments in that thread are quite informative, too.
    I posted the following on my Facebook wall a little bit ago, and it is certainly pertinent to this topic. Chemnitz writes in his Examination,
    “However, the Gospel reveals and declares this mystery which was hidden for long ages, that since the human race could not make satisfaction to the Law and the Law could in no way be dissolved and destroyed, God made a transfer of the Law to another person (a matter which belongs to the article of justification) who should fulfill the Law both by satisfaction and obedience for the whole human race. And because that person is both God and man, therefore His satisfaction is the expiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), and hence Christ is the end of the Law for the salvation of everyone who believes (Rom. 10:4)” (Vol., I, Art. VII, p. 497)
    And in the Formula of Concord…
    “As mentioned above, the obedience not only of one nature, but of the entire person, is a complete satisfaction and atonement for the human race. By this obedience God’s eternal, unchangeable righteousness, revealed in the Law, has been satisfied. So our righteousness benefits us before God and is revealed in the Gospel. Faith relies on this before God, which God credits to faith, as it is written in Romans 5:19:
    For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.
    The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)
    The righteous shall live by his faith. (Habakkuk 2:4 [see also Romans 1:17])
    58 Neither Christ’s divine nor human nature by itself is credited to us for righteousness, but only the obedience of the person who is at the same time God and man. And faith thus values Christ’s person because it was made under the Law [Galatians 4:4] for us and bore our sins, and, in His going to the Father, He offered to His heavenly Father for us poor sinners His entire, complete obedience. This extends from His holy birth even unto death. In this way, He has covered all our disobedience, which dwells in our nature, and its thoughts, words, and works. So disobedience is not charged against us for condemnation. It is pardoned and forgiven out of pure grace alone, for Christ’s sake.” McCain, P. T. (Ed.). (2005). Concordia: The Lutheran Confessions (p. 545). St. Louis, MO: Concordia Publishing House.(FC III, 57-58)
    Please pay special attention to what Chemnitz states concerning the article of justification.
    I am leaving this here.
  45. Joe Krohn
    February 15th, 2014 at 20:49 | #45
    Do you think you will address the Isaiah 53 passages I posted earlier (#7)? Clearly verse 11 shows a justification of those whose sins Christ bears.
  46. Thomas
    February 15th, 2014 at 21:37 | #46
    Realistically, I’m probably never going to leave the Lutheran church. I believe the doctrine to be correct. As to your comment about taking from a worship service what one brings to it, I see your point. That’s true to a large extent. That said, I attend a local COGIC church here in Nashville occasionally. The reality is that there is a freedom in those services to express oneself in ways that would not be socially acceptable in my Lutheran church. I guess I’m just saying that sometimes I enjoy the music, the preaching, and the emotional expressions of happiness that occur at the COGIC church more than the staid, reserved atmosphere of my Lutheran church. Again, I believe that the Lutheran church is correct in its doctrine, which really is the important thing. But the COGIC church is a Christian church, even if heterodox in some respects by Lutheran standards.
  47. Rev. Paul Rydecki
    February 16th, 2014 at 00:30 | #47
    Jim, with these extensive Chemnitz quotes, all you’ve done is successfully knocked down a whole mess of straw men. While you waste your time with your haughty ad hominem’s against “Jacksonites,” you seem to be missing the point entirely, and more seriously, missing the Holy Spirit’s teaching. None of us in the diocese disagrees with a single word of these Chemnitz quotes. But nowhere does Chemnitz even come close to saying, much less implying, that God has pronounced the whole world of sinners to be righteous in His sight.
    For example,
    “However, the Gospel reveals and declares this mystery which was hidden for long ages, that since the human race could not make satisfaction to the Law and the Law could in no way be dissolved and destroyed, God made a transfer of the Law to another person (a matter which belongs to the article of justification) who should fulfill the Law both by satisfaction and obedience for the whole human race. And because that person is both God and man, therefore His satisfaction is the expiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), and hence Christ is the end of the Law for the salvation of everyone who believes (Rom. 10:4)” (Vol., I, Art. VII, p. 497)
    Yes to everything Chemnitz has said here. Christ has made satisfaction for the sins of the world and was obedient for the whole human race. His satisfaction is the expiation for the sins of the whole world. We teach the same thing. This is not treated by him or by Scripture as the justification of the human race. He rightly cites Rom. 10:4 as he connects the expiation made by Christ for all with faith, resulting in salvation (which, for Chemnitz, is always synonymous or at least simultaneous with justification), not for the whole world, but for “everyone who believes.” The human race has not been justified. Only individuals, that is, believers in Christ, are said to be justified in the language of Scripture and of Chemnitz and of the Confessions. AC:IV beautifully describes how justification is the result of faith in the universal satisfaction made by Christ.
    And what do you seek to prove with your quote from the Formula (or any of the Bible passages cited therein)? Every man in the diocese confesses every word of the Formula of Concord, including the ones you quoted. Yes, “the obedience…of the entire person [of Christ] is a complete satisfaction and atonement for the human race.” But this is not the same thing as the justification of the human race, nor is it treated as such in the Confessions. Have you failed to read our actual writings on this matter where we confess this over and over again?
    Or do you misinterpret the following words from the Formula to apply to all the atheists and Muslims in the world?
    In this way, He has covered all our (all atheists and Muslims?) disobedience, which dwells in our nature, and its thoughts, words, and works. So disobedience is not charged against us (not charged against the atheists and Muslims?) for condemnation. It is pardoned and forgiven out of pure grace alone, for Christ’s sake.
    Scripture teaches that the sins of unbelievers are indeed charged against them for condemnation, and that they are not “pardoned and forgiven.” The Formula here is referring to believers in Christ, as all the context makes clear. It is pure eisegesis to read universal justification back into these words.
  48. Sven Wagschal
    February 16th, 2014 at 06:13 | #48
    Rev. Rydecki, would you please aknowledge that nobody is saying that objective justifaction means that all are now saved? Of course, even the confessors of the biblical truth of objective justification confess that the objective justifaction of the whole world is of no use to anybody as long he is not believing in Christ (compare the quote from Luther above in my post #27). The “Objectivitists” don’t believe that anybody is justified without faith. So please stop acccusing people (esp. Jim Pierce) of things which they do not teach.
    Instead, please address these verses: In 2 Kor 5 Paul teaches that the whole world is reconciled with god (yes indeed: Christ has covered even the disobedience of Muslims and Atheists, and God does not count it against them—but if they do not believe that (which is the same as to say “if they don’t believe in Christ”), then they do not have it and will perish), and in Rom 5,8-10 Paul teaches that the reconcilation with God happened when we were his enemies (objective justification) so that now, as we are now reconciled with God (subjective justifcation), we will be saved. These are not two different things, but it is one and the same act, one justification with an objective and a subjective side.
  49. February 16th, 2014 at 06:40 | #49
    This statement is true.
    ” This is not treated by him or by Scripture as the justification of the human race. ”
    But what about the rest of this?
    ______________________________________________
    Critique of the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America’s Theses on Justification
    Abstract: The critique points out logical fallacies thesis by thesis. In general, the conclusions of the theses are built on three fallacies: Straw Man, Equivocation, and Exclusion. The critique is thorough, but not exhaustive due to the quantity of error and volume of material.
    the preface is already the conclusion of the matter even before it has begun. It stays that Rev. Rydecki’s statements regarding the Article of Justification were entirely compatible with the fathers of Lutheran orthodoxy. Therefore the theses that follow are not in fact an examination to see if Objective Justification “was what was understood by the old
    Lutheran dogmaticians and exegetes, complementary to what they taught concerning the Article of Justification, or inimical to it,” but an attempt to prove a foregone conclusion.
    ACLC Response Concerning First a Matter of Definition We are grateful that the adopted theses clarify what is actually at issue. Previously we had difficulty determining what the issue was between the following four points. 1. This is a reaction to certain overstatements and abuses. 2. This is an argument over terms (logomachy). 3. This is an issue of properly distinguishing between Law and Gospel. 4. This is a rejection of the Objective aspect of Justification as being substantively incorrect. The theses state clearly that this is not about the term (cf. thesis 26), nor merely about overstatements and abuses, but that it is in fact about a substantive difference in teaching
    _____________________________________________
    This document outlines just the tip of the problems.
    This is the problem that has to be corrected.
    Even the authors admit all of the error can not be addressed.
    The link is at the head of the post, how can this be ignored?
    Any response?
    How can one go about refuting appendix 3.
    Just asking?
  50. February 16th, 2014 at 06:42 | #50
    This is beyond belief.
    Appendix 4—Statements from Rev. Dr. Robert Preus’ Sons Rev. Rolf Preus responded: