Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Twenty-Seventh Sunday after Trinity":
Beautiful sermon Pastor GJ! I have a question. "The invitations of the marriage feast were sent out again and again, the humblest gathered to fill the halls. The great, noble, learned, and foolish are too busy, too important, or too hedonistic to accept the gracious invitation."
Is this what some pastors may be expressing when using the "free turkeys at the supermarket" analagy? Both you and Brett called this synergism. Perhaps I am missing someting. I would appreciate some help. Thank you.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
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GJ - That is a good question. First of all I would say that the original Gospel messages get converted into secular analogies that do not fit. I have heard UOJ defended thus:
1. Everyone is in a prison cell but the door is not locked (universal forgiveness).
2. Money is placed in every single bank account but not always realized.
3. Poultry day is announced at the grocery store - everyone gets a free goose (your example).
4. Someone inherits a vast estate, but it has to be claimed (attributed to Luther).
The comparison I used was from the Scriptures, the invitation to the marriage feast. The invitation is the Holy Spirit working through the Gospel Promises. Christ has indeed died for the sins of the world, an objective truth whether anyone believes it or not. However, the righteousness He has earned is not imputed except through faith.
The free poultry analogy is loaded with traps. First of all, it suggests that we seek Christ or cooperate (synergism). Not so - Christ goes looking for us (Luke 15) and rejoices with His angels over one lost sinner found. The poultry analogy is used to claim everyone is already forgiven, without faith, without the Word, without the Means of Grace.
Jesus has many examples to show how people receive the Gospel invitation but turn away - have to test-drive my oxen, just got married, gotta big funeral. Another set of comparisons is found in Mark 4/Matthew 13 in the Parable of the Sower. The sowing of the Word is universal, but various complications lead to no yield in three circumstances, overwhelming results in another.
Luther emphasized two aspects of Christian doctrine - the efficacy of the Word and the Means of Grace. Both are missing in UOJ.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church Lady Question":
Rev. Jackson, does the following properly express what you are saying?
Christ conquered sin, death and the Devil on the cross for all and for all time. This fact is there for all in the Word, and has absolutely nothing to do with any action on the part of man in order to be true.
This conquering of sin, death and the Devil by Christ, comes to you and to me only by Grace, through Faith, which Faith, likewise comes only by The Holy Spirit through the Word.
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GJ - Yes, that is another way of stating what is expressed by Luther in the treasure analogy. The Atonement is the treasure but it lies in one heap until it is distributed by the Holy Spirit in the preaching of the Word.
The UOJ Stormtroopers parrot their favorite little sentence in The Brief Statement, which has no basis in the Scriptures or Confessions: "Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Rom. 5:19; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Rom. 4:25..."
The UOJ fanatics cannot deal with Robert Preus' basic statements and quotations in Justification and Rome. To do so would be admitting that Missouri - gasp - was fallible, that J. P. Meyer and Sig Becker - double-gasp - erred in their Human Natures.
6 comments:
In my study on this topic, the Greek term “logizomai” is the English term for “reckon/impute/credit/etc,” (all terms are basically equivalently used) and when I look up that term in a popular Protestant Lexicon here is what it is defined as:
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QUOTE: “This word deals with reality. If I “logizomai” or reckon that my bank book has $25 in it, it has $25 in it. Otherwise I am deceiving myself. This word refers to facts not suppositions.”
http://tinyurl.com/r92dch
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The Protestant Lexicon states this term first and foremost refers to the actual status of something. So if Abraham’s faith is “logizomai as righteousness,” it must be an actually righteous act of faith, otherwise (as the Lexicon says) “I am deceiving myself.” This seems to rule out any notion of an alien righteousness, and instead points to a local/inherent righteousness.
The Lexicon gives other examples where “logizomai” appears, here are some examples:
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Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude [logizomai] that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted [logizomai] as a gift but as his due.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon [logizomai] ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon [logizomai] that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
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Notice in these examples that “logizomai” means to consider the actual truth of an object. In 3:28 Paul ‘reckons’ faith saves while the Law does not, this is a fact, the Law never saves. In 4:4 the worker’s wages are ‘reckoned’ as a debt because the boss is in debt to the worker, not giving a gift to him. In 6:11 the Christian is ‘reckoned’ dead to sin because he is in fact dead to sin. In 8:18 Paul ‘reckons’ the present sufferings as having no comparison to Heavenly glory, and that is true because nothing compares to Heavenly glory.
To use logizomai in the “alien status” way would mean in: (1) 3:28 faith doesn’t really save apart from works, but we are going to go ahead and say it does; (2) 4:4 the boss gives payment to the worker as a gift rather than obligation/debt; (3) 6:11 that we are not really dead to sin but are going to say we are; (4) 8:18 the present sufferings are comparable to Heaven’s glory.
This cannot be right.
So when the text plainly says “faith is logizomai as righteousness,” I must read that as ‘faith is reckoned as a truly righteous act’, and that is precisely how Paul explains that phrase in 4:18-22. That despite the doubts that could be raised in Abraham’s heart, his faith grew strong and convinced and “that is why his faith was credited as righteousness” (v4:22). This is also confirmed by noting the only other time “credited as righteousness” appears in Scripture, Psalm 106:30-31, where Phinehas’ righteous action was reckoned as such.
Rev. Jackson, does the following properly express what you are saying?
Christ conquered sin, death and the Devil on the cross for all and for all time. This fact is there for all in the Word, and has absolutely nothing to do with any action on the part of man in order to be true.
This conquering of sin, death and the Devil by Christ, comes to you and to me only by Grace, through Faith, which Faith, likewise comes only by The Holy Spirit through the Word.
I reckon what you said does indeed reckon with what Pastor Jackson plainly preaches and teaches.
That's precisely what the Word must constain Jackson to bear witness to, as he does, and so do you,too. Praise god.
To feed the human desire for analogies, I'll give it a shot.(Although I realize it's going to be shot down...)
The following is an analogy for use only when explaining the difference between atonement and justification to a passive UOJer.
"A person voluntarily goes to prison for a crime that he didn't commit and serves the complete sentence. Society's demands are met. The price for the crime is paid. Though the price has been paid would you say that the person who actually committed the crime is now innocent?"
That's the best I could come up with...which is why we should stick to the Word and the Symbols.
When addressing a UOJ promoter's analogy it's important to remember the we are not talking about a human banker, butcher, king or judge. It is God who has revealed His will concerning Justification to us in Scripture. The God who created all things in a Word, from nothing. His will is reality, concrete, unmovable, unchanging, eternal and perfect.
What a mockery UOJ makes of God. UOJ says that God declares the whole world forgiven of all sin, justified and righteous - but they aren't until they believe they are. UOJ says that God declares the whole world sinless - but he condemns the sinless to hell for the sin of unblief. UOJ says that God has declared the whole world justified in Christ and at the same time not justified because they don't believe. UOJ says that since Christ paid for all sins God no longer imputes sin to mankind - but Christ didn't pay for the sin of unbelief which unbelievers will go to hell for - so much for God's non imputation of sin. So much for Christ's full payment for all sins. So much for being declared justified by God because you really aren't until you believe you already are.
Analogies are not all bad. But when you lower the great I AM to the level of a butcher or banker and pervert His doctrine in the process by limiting God to the abilities and authority of a man you are heaping wrath upon yourself. When you lead others to believe the same tripe then it would be better for you had you never been born because the great I AM has declared, "The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born." Mark 14:21
>>> Brett Meyer said...
When addressing a UOJ promoter's analogy it's important to remember the we are not talking about a human banker, butcher, king or judge. >>
Are we talking about a human candlesticker maker?
Sorry Brett I couldn't help but see the similarity of what you wrote to the old nursery rhyme.
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