Lito Cruz, PhD, Explains All

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Cyrus Scofield, Convicted Felon, And His Reference...":

Marco,

Yes you are right.

In the KJV the ones being justified freely by his grace points back to the "upon all them that believe". This is the context.

Yes indeed, all these who believe have sinned, yet they are the ones who are justified.

Here is where Calvinism and UOJers get things wrong.

When the Bible speaks of ALL human beings, the Calvinist misses this and limits it to believers.

When the Bible speaks of ALL believers, the UOJer misses this and extends this to the whole world.

In other words, UOJers and Calvinists are united in their mistake on how ALL is to be interpreted, just that they are opposites of each other.

The proper way is to interpret ALL as referring to all human beings when the Bible clearly says so. Then also interpret ALL as referring only to believers when the Bible clearly says so. The context clarifies this.

LPC

***

GJ - Concise and correct. Thank you Dr. Cruz.

Cyrus Scofield, Convicted Felon, And His Reference Bible: A Lesson for NNIV Bible Fantasies

Wikipedia:

Nevertheless, that same year Scofield was forced to resign "under a cloud of scandal" because of questionable financial transactions, that may have included accepting bribes from railroads, stealing political contributions intended for Ingalls, and securing bank promissory notes by forging signatures.^[6] Shortly thereafter Scofield may have been jailed on forgery charges.^[7]
Perhaps in part because of his self-confessed heavy drinking,^[8] Scofield abandoned his wife and two daughters during this period.^[9] Leontine Cerrè Scofield divorced him on grounds of desertion in 1883, and the same year Scofield married Hettie Hall von Wartz, with whom he eventually had a son.^[10]

During the early 1890s, Scofield began styling himself Rev. C. I. Scofield, D.D.; but there are no extant records of any academic institution having granted him the honorary Doctor of Divinity degree.^[16]

***

GJ - One Icha-reader wisely commented in an email that the Scofield Bible was the key item in promoting the rapture business. His Bible departed from the norm by publishing his notes within the text of the KJV and cross-referencing his theories.

The Man Behind the Myth.

Scofield was able to lay a filter over the KJV, telling people, "This is what it means." The so-called rapture was new and exciting, especially since it pre-dated air travel.

According to one source, the Plymouth Brethren, a Pietistic sect, promoted the idea, but the Scofield Bible lent gravitas to the hokum. I last saw a beautifully printed Scofield Bible, with a leather cover, in the Shepherd of Peace bookcase, Columbus, Ohio. Darby is the best known member of the PBs, and he promoted Dispensationalism and the Rapture.

WELS and the LCMS were able to make the horrid NIV acceptable to their members by selling it through their charnel houses. Clergy get discounts and the materials come packaged by the synodical press - so it must be good. Born-again NIV critic Paul McCain is still selling NIVs and NIV commentaries at CPH.

I have noticed this among WELS members, even among laity who dare to think for themselves at times - There is now so much UOJ garabage embedded in all their publications that the laity will repeat WELSian "everyone is justified" nonsense. They read UOJ textbooks from UOJ teachers, going to pastors with UOJ training for advice.

The NNIV is taking this one step beyond by inserting UOJ into the text, adding a word that is not there, never implied, never supported by the Biblical witness.

KJV - One All

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Classic NIV - One All

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

NNIV - Two Alls
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Judgment Day Approaches for the LCMS Seminaries

President Harrison's seminary fund will come a day late and a dollar short to save both seminaries. He wants to (someday) give the seminaries $1 million per year from a fund that's just being capitalized, but now the federal government is going to be pulling some of its funds for higher education, so the seminaries are now back to square one IF Harrison can pull is fund off. I think they ought to start talking about closing one seminary:

Harrison's Seminary Fund, 2 July 2011

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/07/harrisons-seminary-fund.html

==

Former Martin Luther Prep School at Prairie du Chein:

http://badgerherald.com/news/2010/10/26/guard_accused_of_ass.php

==

Interest will accrue on federal students loans taken out at seminary the moment the loan is taken out, and there will no longer be any six-month deferment (grace period) after seminary where the government picks up the interest:

"Grace period":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Loan

No payments are expected on the loan while the student is enrolled as a full- or half-time student. This is referred to as in-school deferment. Deferment of repayment continues for six months after the student leaves school either by graduating, dropping below half-time enrollment, or withdrawing. This is referred to as the grace period.

==

http://www.nique.net/uncategorized/2011/08/03/deficit-deal-cuts-stafford-loans-maintains-pell-grants/

Because of the cuts to the Stafford Loan Program, graduate students will no longer be able to receive a loan subsidized by the federal government and will begin to accrue interest from the moment the loan is taken. Previously, interest would not be charged until after the graduate student had graduated.

==

US debt deal means paying for college - especially graduate school - will get tougher

http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2011/08/04/us_debt_deal_means_paying_for_college___especially_graduate_school___will_get_tougher/

Subsidized loans. Starting next July, graduate and professional students will no longer be eligible for subsidized federal loans.

Graduate students can take out up to $107,500 in federal loans, of which $42,500 can be subsidized. They’ll still be able to borrow the same amount, but no subsidized loans will be available. The additional cost could push up total debt at graduation by an average of about 16 percent.

But the debt-ceiling ordeal raised the question of whether the government will keep its 6.8 percent rate.

Meanwhile, the rates on private loans would no doubt rise if the country’s credit rating took a hit.

Tax breaks. They could be scaled back. Nearly 10 million taxpayers deducted student loan interest in 2009, according to H&R Block. Taxpayers can also claim a credit of up to $2,500 through next year. After that, they’ll be able to claim a credit of up to $1,800 for the first two years of college.

--------------

Will the 10-year student loan forgiveness program for ministers and NPO workers

be axed before people cash in on it?:

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/income-based-repayment-of-federal-student-loan-debt-starts-july-1st.html

http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/get-student-loan-debt-forgiven-a-guide-for-ministers-pastors-non-profit-workers/

------------

Lutheran Seminary Fraud:

Students Are Bankrupting Themselves To Provide an Easy Living for the Profs."No Call for You" Threat Stifles Dissent

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/05/lutheran-seminary-fraud-students-are.html

-------------

Seminaries Ranked by Cost now in Drop Box:

LCMS Seminary Tuition Costs CN 2008 Articlehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/seminary_tuition_cn_2008.pdf

All ATS Seminaries Ranked by Cost (PDF):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_all_ATS_seminaries_cost_rank.pdf

All ATS Seminaries Ranked by Cost (Excel):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_all_ATS_seminaries_cost_rank.xls

All ATS Seminaries Ranked by Cost (jpeg of chart):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_cost_rank_all_ats_sems.jpg

All Lutheran Accredited Seminaries Ranked by Cost (jpeg of chart):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_cost_rank_luth_sems.jpg

All Lutheran Accredited Seminaries Ranked by Cost (PDF):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_lutheran_seminaries_cost_rank.pdf

All Lutheran Accredited Seminaries Ranked by Cost (Excel):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34974726/2010_lutheran_seminaries_cost_rank.xls

Martin Chemnitz Press Books Sent to Various People

I had the pleasure of sending books to various people this week. One wanted Luther versus the UOJ Pietists for a pastoral friend, details left vague on purpose. He will get multiple copies.

A Roman Catholic wanted to know more about Bethany and Erin, so she is getting two copies of Angel Joy, for herself and her family.

A Protestant was interested in the upcoming children's book, so I sent copies for her to look over and comment upon.

Someone from another country wrote today: "Some nine years ago you kindly sent me several books which have proved to be most useful; THY STRONG WORD - CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT, LUTHERAN –JESUS PRICELESS TREASURE. Since then I have been a regular follower of your blog."

I had a thought about the children's book or other books. If someone wants to have multiple copies in the future for the lowest cost, I can easily make arrangements. In fact, Lulu has special offers from time to time. The costs drop at various levels, starting at five copies, 10, 20, 50, etc. They also have additional discounts on top of the quantity discount.

So, if someone wanted plenty of one book, which is what we did at Emmaus, a little planning can lower the cost by quite a lot. Another option, I believe, is to have various titles in one order.

---

bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Martin Chemnitz Press Books Sent to Various People...":

Garrison Keillor talks Lutheran with Concordia students
Submitted by Editor on June 17, 2011

http://concordiatheology.org/2011/06/garrison-keillor-talks-lutheran-with-concordia-students/


---

XAVIER has left a new comment on your post "Martin Chemnitz Press Books Sent to Various People...":

Yes, pastor Jackson, thank you for your books. I keep them at hand and they have helped me to understand the precious doctrine of the efficacy of the WORD.

New All-Time Favorite Posts, Since June of 2010

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All Time Monthly High in Page-Reads: 50% Higher than Last Year

Join the KISS Army, so your Syn Conference baby can be real, relevant, and diabolical.

The page-reads for the last month were above 56,000, 50% higher than one year ago.

Fifty people are followers.

Over 615,000 page-reads are recorded in the last 13 months.

During the WELS convention, page-reads were 2,000 to 3,000 per day.

Around 15,000 comments have been published since this blog began, with almost 7,000 posts published.

Or clean up your act, abide in the Means of Grace, and enjoy the fruits of the Gospel.

Can the Syn Conference Condemn Warren Jeffs?

Marrying multiple child brides is worse than preying upon women, girls, and boys in a "conservative" Lutheran parish?


Where should I start? I recall a Missouri Synod pastor who preyed upon boys. He was moved down to the Carribean, but one of his victims eventually sued the congregation and won the entire church property.

Anyone can find countless examples of horrible crimes, covered up by the synodical leaders. Some people have given me detailed information about William D. Tabor's adultery and the murder of his wife - by his mistress. Tabor spent part of his adulterous career at Holy Scripture in Cape Girardeau. Jay Webber told me all about it. So did Roger Zehms, who was the WELS circuit pastor who oversaw the move of Tabor from LCR (I believe) to WELS. Zehms knew all about Tabor's open adultery.

The entire Synodical Conference got involved with Floyd Luther Stolzenburg. His shenanigans in St. Louis were overlooked by the Missouri Synod leaders until things got too hot. Mrs. Stolzenburg divorced him. Floyd's mistress' husband sued him.

Floyd moved to Columbus, Ohio to become a Church Growth expert for WELS. Roger Zehms was divorced and came from St. Louis to Columbus to share in the spread of false doctrine. Real estate mogul George Skestos, soon to be divorced from his wife, funded the pair of divorced ex-pastors, who would show WELS how to do Church Growth.

After five years of constant trouble from Stolzenburg and Zehms, WELS sent Zehms to Milwaukee to work for WELS Lutherans for Life, a pro-family entity. The leader, Bob Flesichmann, divorced his wife and married his secretary.

What do all these men have in common? They all claimed "Scriptural divorces."

VP Paul Kuske (Shrinker) and Rev. Robert Schumann (born-again atheist) endorsed Floyd for the parish job at Emmanuel in Columbus, a sister church to St. Paul, German Village, where Floyd first scattered the weed seeds of Church Growth. The Glende boys grew up there, nurtured in false doctrine, Masonic lodgery, and Scriptural divorces.

WELS was officially done with Floyd, so the Little Sect on the Prairie found him a delight. Pastor John Shep (ELS, Thoughts of Faith; now ELCA) and ELS Pastor Jay Webber and ELS Pastor Roger Kovaciny were happy to work with Stolzenburg. Kovo spoke at Emmanuel and became that congregation's official missionary, with newsletters printed about his daring deeds in the Ukraine and the many ways Emmanuel did God's work for Him in Rusky-land.

Most would think this was embarrassing for all involved, but they were shameless. Thoughts of Faith and the ELS arranged a matching grant for Floyd, to glorify his name in the Ukraine - Floyd's, not God's.

And on it goes. Murder, adultery, preying upon children. The ugly truth is far worse than anything in this post. Zehms is now a member of Jeske's church, and people think the big problem is Jeske's affiliation with the LCMS!

The NNIV Process

From California:


The tragedy is twofold for not only do the resisters of approving NNIV need to oppose the NNIV, but also to understand and OPPOSE the system with which the synod uses to defeat them by:
1. wearing the NNIV opponents down with never ending facilitated meetings and discussions,
2. Isolating dedicated opposition when it becomes obvious they won't be "brought around"
3. Including softer opposition as a minority position but including it in a final predetermined "consensus" document.

Everyone thinks he has had a "say" in the final consensus, but has had no influence on the final outcome. The process is right out of the plethora of the "how to" manuals for change agents.

So fighting the NNIV with everything they have, will be within the constricts of all of the above. Having gone through the process, and having been either neutralized or isolated, then what? Reluctantly live with the NNIV or leave WELS.

Or going "completely passive" avoiding the dialectical system, and "letting WELS finish its self -destruction", then what? If or when the NNIV is consensually approved WELS has already been self destructing by passively accepting the "old NIV" and using it for more than a quarter of a century with an entire generation knowing nothing else. The tragedy is that the "old NIV" would probably be defended with everything the opponents of NNIV have if the issue were one of NIV or NNIV.

Either way, this controversy could be a godsend to give some courage and spine to reject all of the progeny the revisions and revisions of revisions since the committee commissioned in 1880's to update the English of KJV without replacing any of the manuscript evidence it translated was hijacked by the change agents of the day with different manuscript evidence. EVERY revised and contrived translation since then has used the different family of manuscript evidence to one degree or another since....even NKJV.

The women's shoes on Einstein are like the NIV or the ESV in Lutheran worship.  

---

Part II from Califonia
I can't say that any advice I can contribute is based entirely on "experience with WELS". It also includes many years of researching the subject of the "Process" which I discovered during battles with the government schools systems in late 1960's at the beginning of the planned deliberate dumbing down or "unfreezing of the system" in the secular arena. It was that experience and acquired knowledge of how the process works, which allowed me to recognize it when WELS adopted it (PPBS) at convention of 1967. I could see the process being used to dispatch the KJV to the wastebin of history, resulting in the eventual unofffical-official acceptance of NIV.

The process itself was one of the objections which fell on ears which could not accommodate the idea that men of WELS could possibly be party to such a system as I described. To suggest such a thing was to disrespect the pastors and leaders. The process was but one of several subjects about which I could not go along to get along...which at the time were, The Bible translation issue, the government grants to WELS schools, Humanist methodology being assimilated at MLC, and PPBS (the process of decision making, more than simply a different financial accounting system which is what it how it was described to inquirers).

***

GJ - California has a lot of good advice, based on her experience with WELS. The tradition of double-talk is so embedded in the clergy that I doubt they will escape it. Someone pretends to be a conservative, leads followers along, then pushes them off the cliff. SP Schroeder just did that, as Gurgle did before him.

The truth is, WELS "conservatives" could not lead six drunks to men's restroom at Hooters. They would be too busy worrying about how that might break one of the 10,000 unwritten rules of the sect.

Sig Becker's lie was published, just like Valleskey's claim that his beloved Enthusiasts "downplay the Means of Grace."

Regaining the Momentum in WELS

All Your Base Are Belong To Us

Let the Process, er, ah, um Continue To Process

SP means spin doctor.

One approach is to fight the NNIV, but the Intrepids are more likely to switch than to fight. In fact, the group is already managed by Schroeder, who keeps them on a short leash, unlike the Changers, who have no leash but a direct line to the offering, foundation, and Thrivent money.

Letting the Intrepids fuss among themselves is a pressure-relief valve. The group is salted with minders who derail discussions and keep the spin doctor up to date about potential threats.

District by district, WELS will divide and conquer.

The only realistic alternatives are:

1. Fight the NNIV, face-to-face, every possible moment.
   
2. Go completely passive, avoid all meetings and discussions, and let WELS finish its self-destruction.
   

As a war counselor, I favor the second approach. The Diaprax managers have this thing figured out and they know who their chief opponents are. In contrast, those with some discernment have no idea who is really pulling the strings. For example, Jeske is clearly in charge but never named as their leader. Friendly and concerned allies are often direct lines to the opponents, relishing their jobs and licking their chops at the prospect of a better call, a foreign post that lets them scowl at the sinfulness of Rio, the nudity of the Riviera, the fleshpots of Babylon. Oh, there is so much work to be done and so little time money.

Nepotism Is Toxic in Synods Too

"Dad, we are giving you the Left Foot of Fellowship."
"No son, I am extending the Left Foot of Fellowship to you.
Possibility Thinking."


LA Times:

Currently serving on the board are Schuller; his wife, Arvella; daughter and senior pastor Sheila Schuller Coleman; son-in-law Jim Penner; and five independent members. Schuller Coleman serves as a non-voting member and interim chairwoman.

The new board comes weeks after a controversy erupted when Schuller's son, Robert Anthony Schuller, said his father had been ousted from the board. The deciding votes came from Rick Mysse, a former official with the cathedral's governing body, and Gwyn Myers, the church's former financial consultant.

People Repudiate History When They Forget It

A blacksmith named John Deere, committed to quality, changed my hometown, Moline, by moving there to make his new plow.

We watched a British TV series about the Tower of London today. Mrs. Ichabod is learning about the English side of my family, on my mother's side.

Denominations "forget" their history, but that is really a trick for repudiating it.

The Missouri Synod omits its actual founders, who are Bishop Stephan and Loehe. Walther organized kidnapping, land theft, and a riot by his mob of selected followers, but he did not organize the migration to America. Loehe invited the Missouri people to join his group.

The official histories either omit all the important details or turn everyone except Walther into a demon from Hell. Reason? Everyone was wrong. For more examples of this, check the ELS and WELS hagiographies.

The Blessed Virgin Mother is not the only immaculate saint in denominational history.

When older, wiser pastors and theologians are forgotten, that is just another trick to foist foul doctrine and evil trickery upon the congregations.

Notice how literal has become a cuss-word in WELS, but no one calls the NNIV the Anything Goes paraphrase of the Bible, the gentlest description one can imagine for Murdoch's product. I found a feminist Bible in a Methodist library, dated back to the 1900s. WELS has caught up.

Years ago, The Lutheran Hymnal was a phrase spit out, especially in the context of--make a lip curl--"page 5 and 15". Example - "They are a page 5 and 15 congregation."

Gausewitz? Never heard of him. Repudiated.

Hoenecke? Heard of him, but ignored. Repudiated.

Corky? He was brain-dead. Only a brain-dead person could attack amalgamation and Church Growth in the same paper.

Slick Brenner? Legalist!

Martin Luther? Dust him off once a year, and then put him back in the crypt.

"Isn't that driver Paul Calvin Kelm, the oldest college chaplain in America?"

Happy Birthday, Bethany Joan Marie

Bethany was born August 2, 1974 and lived 6 1/2 years.
This is one of my favorite photos of her.

Bethany's disorder has never been diagnosed, even though the best neurologists in the world looked carefully at her tests. That included the Cleveland Clinic, Harvard, and doctors in Switzerland. Erin Joy, born six years later, had the same disorder, with slightly different symptoms. Both girls got progressively weaker but matured in many ways, laughing at all kinds of jokes and tricks.

I mentioned in the post about Erin that we never really know how many people have lost children. The wife of my favorite professor at Yale opened up her locket to show us the baby they lost. The tiny photo was always around her neck.

My neighborhood friend lost his son when the boy was 17. Now one couple, Icha-readers, are facing the life-threatening surgery of their son.

I list these facts because there are two responses to these crises. The most common is to run away, or change the subject, or to blame the illness on something the individual or family did wrong. I am quite sure Job's Comforters had a lot of children, because their descendants are still with us today. Many of them have become Lutheran pastors, from my experience.

The least common response is to relate to the situation in a realistic way, to listen, to provide real help, to express thoughtfulness in words and in action. Some might take a cue from my experience with a dead battery (twice) in this area. In both cases, when I asked for just a little help, to phone AAA, the strangers said, "No, I refuse to let you depend on them. I will get your car going again." And both did exactly that.

I pity the unbelievers who do not realize how much God blesses special children and those children who undergo special challenges. Those unfeeling people miss the greatest blessings of life, but even worse, their attitude makes them blind, spiteful, and juvenile in their words and actions.

I had a class where some students started joking about the "short buses." That was a new slang term for me, so I asked what they meant. They explained that the special education children normally were on the short buses, so that was a derogatory term. They had another term, they added to help me out. It was worse.

I tried to explain to them, gently, that they were making an enormous mistake, because they did not know who in that room had a friend, child, sibling, or grandchild being mocked in such an ignorant fashion. I pointed out that people would mark them as immature and they would shut down many enjoyable experiences.

When a class on diversity was forced on me, I spent time teaching about diversity in physical ability. One participant was the top assistant for the billionaire owner of the school. Her husband was in a wheelchair. Likewise, a hostess at the Red Lobster here in town is married to a man with Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Brenda Kiehler's disorder. The husband of the hostess is also in a wheelchair.

There are a lot of people in wheelchairs, breathing from tanks, and otherwise limited in some fashion. They are not lepers, but people who are glad to have some of the health most of us enjoy.

Bethany loved being hugged. I could not squeeze her long enough. She would make a huffing sound and grin. She liked to hear stories and joke with us in her own way. Her favorite nurse played games with her, making Bethany laugh. I swung her in circles, which cooled her off and gave her a little thrill.

Bethany loved going out, so she had shades to wear, from her favorite nurse, Ida,
a former missionary-nurse who lost her voice.

New Quiz - Give the Name of This Writer and His Position

Dave, please let me once more, as respectfully, but as firmly as clearly and firmly as possible, your disparaging remarks about the Schwan Foundation, which has provided millions upon millions of dollars to The LCMS during several LCMS presidencies that has allowed our church body to reach out boldly with the Gospel.

***

GJ - When I went to college, many decades ago, one sentence like this was considered an automatic fail for the assignment.

DP Benke Endorses SP Mark Schroeder, Too

DP Al Benke, LCMS, smiling after his Yankee Stadium triumph.

ALPB Online


Secondly, however, the comments of your denominational president here are just plain top drawer and in my opinion designed to tamp down rather than amp up differences so the work can continue unabated:


***

GJ - Everyone smile and wink.

Benke gave the other Mark, Jeske, rave reviews too. Click here if you graduated from Mequon.

How Many LCMS-WELS Pastors Know Walt Kallestadt?

The Christian Post > U.S.|Mon, Aug. 01 2011 10:58 AM EDT

Crystal Cathedral Members Trusting in God to Get Out of Debt

By Nicola Menzie | Christian Post Contributor

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Leaders of Crystal Cathedral have announced that selling the California church, laden with nearly $50 million in debt, is no longer an option and say they believe that God is going to turn the church’s situation around for good.

• 
  (Photo: AP Images / Damian Dovarganes, File)
  The Crystal Cathedral is seen Dec. 17, 2004, in Garden Grove, Calif. The Crystal Cathedral filed for bankruptcy on Monday in Southern California after months of trying to overcome mounting debt. The megachurch, birthplace of the 'Hour of Power' televangelist broadcast, announced its filing as it deals with a $55 million debt.

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Related

• Crystal Cathedral Returns Schuller's Voting Rights
• Crystal Cathedral Gets $50 Million Bid From Catholics
• Crystal Cathedral Members Start Petition to 'Save' Megachurch
• Personal Reflections on the Financial Crisis at the Crystal Cathedral
• Crystal Cathedral New Suitors Include Catholic Diocese

Related Topics

• Megachurch
• Church Bodies
• Court Cases

Surprising even church founder Robert H. Schuller, Crystal Cathedral Ministries Board Member Walt Kallestad revealed Sunday that church leaders had done a one-eighty, deciding that the Orange County church “is not for sale” after all, no matter what the Creditors Committee tasked with settling the church's debt have in mind.

The Creditors Committee is responsible for ensuring that Crystal Cathedral's debt is settled and has been going by a bankruptcy reorganization plan that includes sale of the church.

Church members are hoping the judge overseeing their case will grant them permission in court Monday to move ahead with a plan of their own to raise the necessary funds to dig Crystal Cathedral out of debt.
Schuller called the announcement, issued by Kallestad from the church’s pulpit, “unexpected,” but added that he was delighted to know board members had decided to step out in faith to battle the church’s financial woes.

 DP Benke said Jeske was in LA,  trying to score a broadcasting node there.

***

GJ - Walt Kallestadt wrote the famous "Entertainment Evangelism" article for The Lutheran magazine. He earned a DMin from Fuller, had Fuller leaders preach from his pulpit, and recently took his mega-congregation out of ELCA. Kallestadt has preached for Schuller and is on the board. Community of Joy in Phoenix, where I observed one service with Mrs. I, planned a water park next to his church. I do not see it on Google Maps. The congregation belongs to the LCMC.

Canadian Lutherans (ELCA Related) Approve Homosexual Ordination and Marriage

Tolja, eh?



LifeSiteNews

Canadian Lutheran Church splinters as it votes to allow same-sex ‘marriages’

by John-Henry Westen

• Wed Jul 20, 2011 15:45 EST
• Comments (33)
• Tags: homosexuality, same-sex 'marriage'

SASKATOON, July 20, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The National Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC) gave an emotional homily Sunday concluding the July 14-17 ELCIC National Convention which approved both performance of same-sex ‘marriages’ in Lutheran churches and ordination of practicing homosexual clergy. “We have made some very difficult and gut-wrenching choices for the future of our church and its ministry,” said Bishop Susan C. Johnson, as she struggled to hold back tears. “Some of us will be leaving this convention elated, and some will, and have already, left despondent.”

The vote to permit conducting and blessing homosexual ‘marriages’ passed by a vote of 192 to 132.  The vote to permit practicing homosexuals to be ordained as clergy passed 205 to 114.

While the ELCIC is the largest Lutheran body in Canada, the measure has split the group and been condemned by another Lutheran group in the nation. Leaders of Lutheran Church-Canada (LCC) issued a statement noting that the ELCIC is the only Lutheran church body in Canada “that has approved such a departure from accepted Christian teaching.”

Noting the words of Jesus who spoke of marriage in terms of a man leaving his father and mother, being united to his wife, and the two becoming one flesh, LCC’s presidents (bishops) declared the church body’s continuing witness to “Christ’s clear teaching that God designed marriage as the lifelong union of one man and one woman.” They further stated that LCC will not ordain pastors who do not support this position.

At its 2002 convention Lutheran Church-Canada affirmed the historic biblical definition of marriage. At its most recent convention in June 2011, delegates agreed that the Bible’s qualifications and standards for a pastor include a heterosexual orientation.

The statement also rejects any notion that holding to “historic Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality constitutes ‘homophobia,’ an irrational fear and hatred of people with same-gender orientation.” LCC’s leaders refuse to defend those who take a threatening or insulting approach to the issue, but instead “repent of such sin and ask God to help His people overcome it wherever it occurs.”

After noting that there are Lutheran Christians in Canada “still deeply committed to the Bible as the authoritative Word of God and still dedicated to its clear witness on human sexuality, marriage and standards for ministry,” the leaders pledge prayers for those within the ELCIC for whom their church body’s decision is troubling.

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GJ - This is good news, because the lavender philosophy has been promoted by ELCiC's new bishop, but support is not universal. The vote was probably managed and manipulated the way most convention votes are, but the earthquake was more of a trembler. This action will wake up the faithful and help them depart from ELCiC.

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Lavender is always suitable for a bishops' confab. Johnson and the Episcopalian bishop.


Two sides to Lutheran story

By EDWARD SKUTSHEK
Wed, Jul 27 - 4:54 AM

It is disappointing that the July 25 article "It’s ‘an expansion of God’s love’" was so one-sided. Rev. Kimberlynn McNabb, dean of the Atlantic conference of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC), was of the opinion that most Nova Scotia Lutherans had already shown support for the new rules regarding same-sex marriages and ordination of gay clergy.

The accuracy of her statement is challenged by the vote at the ELCIC’s national convention approving of the marriage of same-gender couples by ELCIC clergy. The vote revealed a deep split over the issue, with 60 per cent of the delegates voting in favour and 40 per cent opposed.

In response to the query if Pastor McNabb plans to start performing same-sex marriages right away, she provides a rather ambiguous "No. Yes, but no" answer. She explains that she would discuss the matter with her church council and "make sure that the church is on board." However, the reality of the motion that was passed at the recent ELCIC national meeting is that while pastors are "encouraged" to "consult with the lay leaders in the congregation," ultimately the decision rests solely with the pastors to make "according to the dictates of their consciences."

The latter point was drawn to the attention of the ELCIC’s National Council by an open letter written about a month prior to the convention as a matter of concern by the staff of the ELCIC’s seminary in Saskatoon.

Responding to a question as to whether she thinks there will be a further split over this issue, Rev. McNabb refers to the Canadian Association of Lutheran Churches (CALC) as a "new group." CALC was established in 1994 — 17 years ago — through an act of Parliament. As well, her description of CALC as not wanting "any part of a church that is blessing same-sex marriages or rostered clergy who are gay" is an unfair characterization.

Aligned with the historic witness of the Christian Church over 2,000 years, what CALC "wants" is faithfulness to Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions, which the ELCIC declares in its constitution to uphold. However, neither of these foundational documents for Lutherans supports the position taken by the ELCIC.

Rev. Edward Skutshek of Kelowna, B.C., is president of the Canadian Association of Lutheran Congregations (CALC).

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FYI

Winnipeg Free Press - PRINT EDITION

 From left to right: British Columbia Synod Bishop Gerhard Preibisch, Manitoba/Northwestern Ontario Synod Bishop Elaine Sauer, National Bishop Susan Johnson, David Foxhall, Justine Foxhall, Saskatchewan Bishop Cindy Halmarson, Eastern Synod Bishop Michael Pryse.

Evangelical Lutherans back same-sex marriage

By: Brenda Suderman

Posted: 07/23/2011 1:00 AM | Comments: 0 (including replies)

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Although she has the official green light to officiate at weddings of same-sex couples, Rev. Jennifer Marlor doesn't plan to marry anyone in haste.
"I think God's word is for everyone, God's love is for everyone. And I think in some instances those tent flaps need to be opened up," says the pastor of Gloria Dei Lutheran Church in Charleswood.

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"But I'm not sure how this will play out in my congregation."

Last weekend, the delegates at the national convention of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada voted to allow ministers to perform same-sex blessings or marriages, according to the laws in their provinces, if they and their congregation choose to do so.

With 152,500 members in 607 congregations, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada is the country's largest Lutheran denomination.

Local ministers and lay leaders are invited to a series of meetings across the province in mid-September to discuss the implications of this motion and two others passed at the convention, says the assistant to the bishop of ELCIC's Manitoba and northwestern Ontario Synod.

"I think these consultations will outline for them what the possibilities are," says Larry Ulrich. "Each congregation will be encouraged to make their policy declaration and decisions around that (same-sex marriages)."

Just after the vote, Bishop Elaine Sauer issued a pastoral letter to the 64 churches in the regional synod, asking them to be conscious that not all churches welcome these motions equally.
"I hope and pray we can be respectful of each other as we experience this dual reality both within and among our congregations and rostered leaders in the synod," writes Sauer, who was not available for comment.

At the same convention, held in Saskatoon July 14 to 17, delegates also agreed that sexual orientation does not disqualify a candidate for ministry, rescinding a previous motion that did not allow practising homosexuals to be approved for ordination.

"We are hoping that congregations will make a big tent (where) everyone can find a place and no one is forced to extend same-sex blessings and no one is forced to call gay or lesbian pastors," explains National Bishop Susan C. Johnson, 53, who was elected to a second four-year term at the same convention.

Two years ago, the ELCIC's sister denomination in the United States, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, voted to permit non-celibate gays and lesbians to become clergy.
Johnson asks congregations to decide their position on same-sex blessings or weddings before a couple actually comes to them asking for such a ceremony.

"Our hope would be if a congregation would not provide (blessings or marriage), they would help the couple find another option."

Johnson says she doesn't know what the demand for performing same-sex blessings or marriages might be within her denomination.

But another Lutheran group in the country moved quickly to clarify its position regarding same-sex marriages and homosexuals in the pulpit.

The more conservative Lutheran Church-Canada, with 70,000 members across the country, released a statement indicating not all Lutherans support same-sex marriages, says incoming first vice-president Nolan Astley.

"We're not speaking from the margins, but speaking communally with others that for 2,000 years, marriage is for one man and one woman, and that homosexuality is sinful in God's eyes, and that a person who is homosexual is not able to serve in ministry," says Astley, pastor of Holy Cross Lutheran Church in Kitchener, Ont.

He says his denomination also regards homophobia and actions against homosexuals as sinful.
Johnson says she understands the ELCIC's decisions may be controversial internally and externally, but she hopes to continue their relationship with the Lutheran Church-Canada through joint efforts with the Canadian Lutheran World Relief and the Lutheran Council in Canada.

Johnson says a handful of congregations have already left the ELCIC, and she expects more now that the motions have passed.

"We heard on the convention floor that there are some congregations, if we pass it, they will consider what their relationship with the national church will be," says Johnson.
brenda@suderman.com

Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition July 23, 2011 J13

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ELCA Widens the Doors for Faster Congregational Exits with This News Release

Breaking News

POST BY Elizabeth Hunter

Comments (0)

July 21, 2011

Canadian Lutherans open doors to gay marriage and pastors

The national convention of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada widened the church's welcome for gays and lesbians and restructured the national church at its July 14-17 gathering in Saskatoon, Sask. The 152,500-member church will now allow same-sex marriages and the ordination of gay and lesbian pastors.

Following more than two hours of debate, delegates approved 213-134 a human sexuality social statement that developed out of a four-year national study of sexuality. The statement calls the ELCIC to "denounce discrimination, including sexual discrimination, in all its forms." The voting process for the social statement was contentious. Delegates defeated a motion that would have required approval by a two-thirds majority, instead of the usual simple majority vote.

In a statement, Lutherans Concerned North America executive director Emily Eastwood, who was present at the convention, said the ELCIC social statement is "more prophetic than that of the ELCA" and "a major turning point in the Canadian church towards full inclusion."

Delegates sang "Lord Listen to Your Children Pray" as they voted 192-132 to allow ELCIC clergy to preside at or bless same-sex marriages, according to their consciences and the laws of their provinces. Canada legalized same-gender marriage in July 2005.

By a vote of 205-114, delegates rescinded past actions that banned non-celibate gay and lesbian people from ordination and call. The action states that sexual orientation is not in itself a factor that disqualifies a candidate for rostered ministry.

"I can't see that anything good has come from the church's current policy on this issue," Eastern Synod Bishop Michael Pryse said during the debate over ordination. "I've seen the terrible results of this policy: broken people, broken families, broken congregations, substance abuse, broken lives. That's what happens when you demand celibacy of those who don't have the gifts to live celibate lives. This motion provides the opportunity for willing congregations to consider these candidates."

Delegates also voted 204-133 to affirm a statement that church members who disagree with one another will remain in dialogue and unity, and refrain from church-dividing actions.

In other action, delegates:

• approved in principle restructuring moves that re-organize the ELCIC's five synods into three synods; move from biennial to triennial national conventions of reduced size; and reconfigure regional conferences into area congregational groupings supported by leadership teams. Delegates gave the ELCIC National Church Council the authority to implement the changes.

• re-elected Susan C. Johnson to a second four-year term as ELCIC national bishop.

— Based on news releases from the ELCIC 

Confession of Faith - In the Sacred Scriptures And the Confessions

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Confession of Faith":

Romans 10:10, "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." is in perfect harmony with the following passages:

Luke 6:45, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Matthew 10:32-33, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."