ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
Lutheran members of the North American Society for Church Growth: Harold S. Drageger, Grace Lutheran, Visalia, CA; Bradley Hoefs, King of Kings Lutheran, Omaha, NE; Kent Hunter, Church Growth Center, Corunna, IN; Elmer Matthias, Emeritus Concordia St. Louis, MO; Dale Olson, Cross of Hope Lutheran, Ramsey, MN; Waldo J. Werning, Stewardship Growth Center, Ft. Wayne, IN; Gregory L. Jackson, Columbus, OH.Doris M. Wagner, Fuller Theological Seminary, December 10, 1991
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GJ - I tried to find out who was in the Lutheran section of the NASCG, but they refused to say. So I spent $50 and joined, to get the list.
The WELS members of the fraternity have come out in the open since that time. Trapp and Parlow both affiliated with the Willow Creek Association, which has a creed, so they are both unionists who have never been disciplined by their District Pussycats.
Valleskey denied to my face that he went to Fuller. Later, he bragged to David Koenig that he did. Koenig wrote about that, but the CLC Shrinker was furious that Valleskey was angry with him for telling me. I put all the information in Christian News.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "A Portrait of the Pastor as a Young Heretic":
O.K. I hate to leave a comment as "Anonymous" but have the feeling if I left any kind of identification I'd bet pounced on by all the fine "Christians" who leave comments here. I'm a traditional WELS pastor who has attended a couple of services at The Core. While it is not the kind of worship I would have at my services, Ski presented law and gospel in its truth and purity. The message that I heard last Sunday was actually clearer about law and gospel than in most WELS sermons that I've heard. If this is heresy, sign me up for the Heresy Express!
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GJ - Church and Change must have declared April 24th as Sanctimony Day, where they feel free to make anonymous accusations in the name of fearing candor, honesty, and ethical conduct. Not to worry, we have your number.
WELS has a separate denomination growing within its bowels, a cancer fed by the college, seminary, and Love Shack. I have no doubt that many WELS pastors support the Popcorn Cathedral of Rock. Many others are indifferent about it.
Face it - the Wisconsin Synod has trained and ordained a bunch of Babtist ministers who are now teaching their nominal members to be Babtists. The Church Growth faction feels most at home with the liberal Babtists, who teach what JP Meyer did - make a decision.
About 20 years ago, I told Doctrinal Pussycat Robert Mueller what a couple related about attending WELS churches in Florida. The couple said, "The only way we could tell we were in a WELS church was from the sign on the outside." That was during the reign of Radloff, classmate of Valleskey, proud Fuller alumnus (among friends only).
Mueller responded by being angry with me, not his apostate buddies. If it was that bad 20 years ago, what is like now?
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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Groeschel-Stanley Franchise Grows Among Nominal Lu...":
OK, let us assume that Ski presented Law and Gospel clearly and rightly divided in his sermon. What about the rest of the service? Liturgy? That's right, adiaphora. Music? Adiaphora also. Alright, I was not there. Maybe they used page 5 or 15 and sung nothing but hymns from TLH. But, I'll bet that it was contemptible worship.
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GJ - The Suffragen Bishop blogged, saying Ski screamed during one sermon. That is one of those gimmicks loved by the Reformed. But the blog production, very sparse, is not saved.
My impression from the lack of information is this: The CORE consists mostly of WELS members from Fox Valley, with services aimed at letting people double-up, going to their regular church in morning and supporting Church and Chicanery in the evening. Like the radical takeover of Alcatraz decades ago, this will grow old.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Groeschel-Stanley Franchise Grows Among Nominal Lu...":
Accept it. WELS is having an identity crisis of galactic proportions. They not only do not know who they are and what they stand for. They do not know what they want to be and believe when they grow up.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Fifty WELS Pastors Still Think Highly of Luther":
Is it acceptable to leave a post with the name anonymous if you are simply embarrassed to be reading this web page? I feel the tone of this page is similar to the feeling of juicy gossip; "It feels good to talk about people and pretend to be able to read their hearts and know their faith from across the internet."
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GJ - It is appropriate for WELS apostates to communicate their sanctimonious concern anonymously. In fact, most of their work is done through making snide and slanderous remarks behind the backs of their fellow-pastors, their very own classmates: "brain-damaged, senile," etc.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comment Department":
Memo From:Gregory (The Pot) Jackson To: WELS Pastors (The Kettle)
Message: I can't believe how black you are.
I remember when you were a colloquy "student" at WLS in 1988/1989. You walked around like you were God's gift to WELS. Have you found a church body that is small enough for your intolerence, yet big enough for your ego?
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GJ - Typical Sausage Factory stuff. I wonder why people are not lining up four-abreast to join this group.
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Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":
O.K. I've identified myself. You can easily figure out who I am if you have a WELS Yearbook and a basic knowledge of hip hop nomenclature.
First, to define a term: Tolerate -- Put up with something even if you don't like it (I tolerate smokers in public places, but I don't like the smell of their smoke).
What would I tolerate? (I can't force anyone else to tolerate these things, but I tolerate them.) I tolerate Lutheran ministers who worship in a contemporary style. I actually prefer a blended style of worship, but I tolerate contemporary style.
What don't I tolerate? I don't tolerate false teaching of any kind. I don't tolerate the watering down of true teaching of any kind. However, I don't see WELS pastors who use contemporary styles of worshp as necessarily compromising doctrine. If I saw evidence of this happening. I would speak out against it.
It seems like so many who post here (and I've only been visiting since yesterday and won't be back after Sunday) find pastors using contemporary styles in worship and then start looking for false doctrine. Every variance in wording is seen as heresy when there just plain isn't any heresy there.
O.K. I've said my piece and I won't be posting again because I find this a monumental waste of time and energy when there are souls beyond our care who are dying and we are doing nothing but arguing about style.
Oh, and there's this: "The future is yours. At least until the moon darkens, the sun no longer gives it's light, the trumpets sound and Christ returns to judge the quick and the dead. Not much of a future but it's yours while the prince of this world feeds his church with the carrion of false doctrine." That sounds more like Spurgeon or some other "Babtist" than it sounds like the writings of a Lutheran.
Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo's audience
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Jeru the Damaja has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":
In case anyone cares at this point, the person posting above is Pastor Joel Lillo of Trinity (Appleton, WI).
Since he won't be posting again, I figured his sole post should be cited.
Urban Legends...Spiritual Myths So we are finishing up a sermon series this weekend here at TRF, called "Overcome". It has been really cool going through the book of Acts and being challenged as a church to go deeper as a community and as individuals.
I am really excited for a new series we start next week called "Urban Legends". We were inspired by a series of sermons Lifechurch did. We wanted to take the chance to discuss spiritual myths and many common beliefs the world has that go against the truth of God's word. We will discuss things like, "Does God want us happy?" and "Truth is Relative". It should be really fun to tackle these discussions with the Fellowship.
Today, a group of us Pastors spent the day up above Applegate Lake shooting a series of videos for this upcoming series. We had a blast. I think you guys are really going to enjoy the work we have put into it. I can't tell you what it's about, but Southern Oregon and Urban Legends kind of gives it away.
Anyway, be watching for updates on the series. We will be starting a blog that will have preview of weeks to come as well as reviews of the previous weeks. All the videos used in the TRF services will be posted their as well. So when you go to work on Monday AM and want to show everyone the stuff you saw and heard Sunday, you will be able to take them to the blog.
Be praying that God will use this coming weekend in a powerful way as Pastor Ron finishes up our study of the book of Acts. There are definitely softening hearts and lives being changed. It is fun to see Him at work in all of us.
April 29, 2007 - Urban Legends: God Will Never Give You More Than You Can Handle Urban Legends: God Will Never Give You More Than You Can Handle, is the conclusion of the Urban Legends sermon series. This message is based on Selected Scriptures. Direct download: NPC-04-29-07_Urban_Legends4.mp3 Category: Sunday_Sermons -- posted at: 12:02 PM
Sermon Synopsis 9/14 - There are many ways to God Posted on Monday September 15th, 2008 at 23:15 in sermons, urban legends series
Today we are going to begin a series called Urban Legends. What is an Urban Legend? Urban legends are popular stories alleged to be true which spread from person to person through oral or written com...
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TruMix.com : Podcasts : The Mount Weekly Sermon PodcastUrban ...Pastor Bob will concludes his sermon series entitled Urban Legends. Part 4 will explore the idea that “God Wants Me to be Happy, Healthy, and Wealthy”. ... www.trumix.com/podshows/2181277 - Similar pages -
Dallas Church Sermon AudioUrban Legends- Debunking Spiritual Myths Series. Urban Legends-Debunking Spiritual Myths ... July sermon series. A brief run through of the Bible in 4 weeks ... www.dallaschurch.org/rss/sermonfeed.xml - 94k - Cached - Similar pages -
urban legends sermonMore Than You Can Handle, Is The Conclusion Of The Urban Legends Sermon Series. ... Urban Legends: There Are Many Ways To God, Is The Second Of The Urban . ... urbanlegendssermon.blogspot.com/ - 22k - Cached - Similar pages -
Urban Legends: Exploring Myths that Manipulate Our Faith ...From the editors of Leadership journal, PreachingToday.com provides preachers with sermon illustrations, preaching articles, outlines, sermon ideas, ... www.preachingtoday.com/sermons/ideas/urbanlegends.html - 50k - Cached - Similar pages -
Urban legend debunked « i, PunditFeb 25, 2008 ... As someone who has heard a large number of sermons in his lifetime, I can tell you that this urban legend (debunked here) is frequently used ... itsmypulp.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/urban-legend-debunked/ - 29k - Cached - Similar pages -
SermonCentral.com: - Sermons contributed by Craig GroeschelSermon Series: Urban Legends. If we don't talk about sin, the reality of our sin nature, and it's destructive power and it's eternal consequences, then we, ... www.sermoncentral.com/contributor_profile.asp?ContributorID=50259 - 85k - Cached - Similar pages -
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The modern Episcopal Church always strives to stay ahead of the latest fads. In recent years it has dealt with its first openly homosexual bishop, its first Islamic priest, and its first Druid priest. Now it might be on the verge of electing its first Buddhist bishop.
Kevin Thew Forrester, who is ordained both as an Episcopal priest and as a lay Zen Buddhist, was elected bishop by the Diocese of Northern Michigan (the Upper Peninsula) in February. He is also known as "Genpo," or "Way of Universal Wisdom." A majority of Episcopal bishops and diocesan standing committees now must consent to his election by July. The 2003 election of actively homosexual Gene Robinson as New Hampshire's bishop has already fueled schism within the Episcopal Church and the global Anglican Communion. Would a Buddhist bishop add to the division, or merely be an anticlimax?
"I have been blessed to practice Zen meditation for almost a decade," Forrester has explained. "About five years ago a Buddhist community welcomed me as an Episcopal priest in my commitment to a meditation practice -- a process known by some Buddhists as 'lay ordination.'" He further opined: "Literally thousands of Christians have been drawn to Zen Buddhism in particular because, distinct from western religions, it embodies a pragmatic philosophy and a focus on human suffering rather than a unique theology of God."
Forrester, who is 51 and has been an Episcopal priest since 1994, insists Zen Buddhism is compatible with his faith. "It's not a matter of holding two faiths. There's one faith and it's Christianity," he told a local Michigan newspaper. "The gift is that that faith is deepened by my meditative practice and I'm eternally grateful to Zen Buddhism for teaching me that practice and receiving me as an Episcopal priest." Forrester insists that his faith allows him to be "open to receive the truth and the beauty and goodness, and the wisdom from the other religious traditions of the world, and to be in dialogue with them."
The diocese to which Forrester has been elected bishop has only 27 churches, has lost 30 percent of its membership, and now has fewer than 2000 souls, fewer than 700 of whom actively attend church. But consent to his election by the Episcopal Church will elevate him in the global Anglican communion, whose more than 800 bishops preside over nearly 80 million communicants.
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Timm has left a new comment on your post "Finding Forrester: New Zen Episcopal Bishop":
If Kevin "Genpo" Forrester's bishop-hood falls through, perhaps he can apply for this job:
For that matter, any Church Growthers (nee WELS) out there may also be interested, provided they are willing and able to "work in a pluralistic, spiritual environment respecting the diversity of religious institutions, organizations and beliefs."
Rev. Jackson, maybe your site could host a job-board with listings of ecumenical positions available for those individuals who are trying desperately to unshackle themselves from the Lutheran church. It would just make things easier and less painful for all of us.
Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:38:03 PM by ReformationFan
WASHINGTON, D.C., April 23, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing yesterday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was confronted on her avowed commitment to eugenicist Margaret Sanger's global agenda, and asked whether the Obama administration would work to overturn pro-life laws around the world - a priority that Clinton confirmed.
In a hearing to discuss the Obama administration's foreign policy, New Jersey Congressman Chris Smith questioned Clinton on her statements upon receiving Planned Parenthood's Margaret Sanger award on March 27. Clinton had said she was "really in awe" of the Planned Parenthood founder.
"The 20th century reproductive rights movement, really embodied in the life and leadership of Margaret Sanger, was one of the most transformational in the entire history of the human race," Clinton had said. She also said that Sanger's work "is not done."
Smith yesterday asked Clinton about her praise for Sanger's eugenic agenda, saying "it is extraordinarily difficult [to see] how anyone could be in awe" of Sanger, who "made no secret whatsoever" of her views.
"With all due respect, Madam Secretary, Sanger's legacy was indeed transformational, but not for the better if one happens to be poor, disenfranchised, weak, disabled, a person of color, and unborn child, or among the many so-called undesirables Sanger would exclude and exterminate from the human race," said Smith.
"Sanger's prolific writings dripped with contempt for those she considers to be unfit to live," he continued. "Sanger was an unapologetic eugenicist and racist, who said, and I quote, 'The most merciful thing a family does for one of its infant members is to kill it.'
"She also said, on another occasion, quote, 'Eugenics is the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems.'"
Smith asked, "As part of Sanger's work that remains undone," whether the Obama administration seeks "in any way to weaken or overturn pro-life laws and policies in African and Latin American countries, either directly or through multilateral organizations, including and especially the United Nations, African Union, or the OAS, or by way of funding NGOs like Planned Parenthood?"
Clinton replied: "It is my strongly held view that you are entitled to advocate and everyone who agrees with you should be free to do so anywhere in the world, and so are we." (Video of Secretary Clinton's responses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gEA97EnxE4)
Clinton confirmed that the Obama administration's definition of "reproductive health" includes abortion, and that, "We are now an Administration that will protect the rights of women, including their rights to reproductive health care."
Congressman Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska also told Clinton he was "stunned" by her commitment to Sanger, and that he was "deeply grieved" at her answer to Congressman Smith.
"She [Sanger] advocated for the elimination of the disabled, the downtrodden, and the Black child," Fortenberry objected. "I don't believe these ideologies have a place in our pluralistic society."
Decrying taxpayer funding of abortion overseas as "a form of neo-colonialism" that is "elitist, paternalistic, and an assault on the dignity of the poor," Fortenberry challenged Clinton to instead pursue foreign policy that "upholds the genius of womanhood and the life nestled within her."
Clinton responded by emphasizing that the "choice" to carry or kill an unborn child should be available "for all women."
Commenting in a later statement on Clinton's remarks, Smith said: "It is evident that Mrs. Clinton and President Obama want to force the tragedy of abortion upon women around the world especially and including in countries where democratically elected leaders want to continue to protect their unborn children.
"There are other ways in which both mother and baby are protected, cared for and helped - with food, nutrition, clean water and life-affirming healthcare," he said.
"Secretary Clinton's inability to see this will mean more babies will die and more women will suffer the consequence of abortion as a result of U.S. foreign policy overseas."
(Video of Secretary Clinton's responses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gEA97EnxE4)
