Doctrinal Morons Sell the Fuller Seminary Toxins - For a Hefty Fee

old-curmudgeon (http://old-curmudgeon.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Marketing Sees Through Fuller Seminary - Lutheran ...":

While Fuller provides misguided education, it took lame-brained pastors with their political shenanigans to soak it up and peddle it to their flocks.

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GJ - I contend that the Enthusiasm of the Syn Conference prepared the leaders to receive the nonsense of Fuller Seminary with joy and approbation. These leaders got synodical offering money and Thrivent grants to pay for even more education, until the Syn Conference became a super-saturated solution of apostasy.

WELS does not have the doctrinal spine to shut down Church and Change or to mark and avoid Jeske. The faux-Lutheran New Ager straddles two weak synods at once, a Colossus of Toads, far more eager to share his ego than we are to partake thereof.

Jeske's Church and Change operation is the management of WELS. When the Wisconsin sect needed a new president for their tiny Asian seminary, a founder of Church and Change took over from another Changer (Witte from Lawrenz).

The expensive but seldom read FICL is a Church and Change newsletter, printed at synod expense.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Doctrinal Morons Sell the Fuller Seminary Toxins -...":

Mideast dictators, Rev. Jeske and C&C are all shaking in their boots this week. The apostasy in the WELS may finally be defunded by Republicans in Wisconsin, and shortly, in other states.

Jeske's school is premised on the idea that it's giving a quality education at cut rate pricing that public schools can't provide. However, as soon as the state can provide it, courts have ruled that the state must pull funding to private educational entities.

If the teachers union loses its collective bargaining rights, quality education at more reasonable prices will follow, and then the state will pull the plug on St. Marcus school, and also on 4th grade kindergartens and daycare centers run out of churches and parochial schools. These are all "marks of the C&C churches" since they are into grants more than anyone else.

BIDDLE: Day of reckoning for unionized teachers’ pensions
States facing retirement deficits are forcing reductions

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/18/day-of-reckoning-for-unionized-teachers-pensions/

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/62661862.html

Marketing Sees Through Fuller Seminary - Lutheran Doctrine Destroys It

Valleskey, Bivens, Larry Olson, Paul Calvin Kelm, VP Heubner, Reuel Schulz, Wally Oelhafen, Fred Adrian, Waldo Werning, Kent Hunter, and many more studied at this citadal of apostasy.
And they loved it.


Narrow-minded Lutheran has left a new comment on your post "Fuller Wrecked the Synods - That Is What I Publish...":

"Testing the Claims of Church Growth," by Rodney Zwonitzer refers to Fuller as the LCMS's "third seminary." This guy was a marketing expert in his first career. Funny how a marketing guy shoots down the marketing gimmicks in the Church. Funny how CPH ceased printing his book.

http://www.mtio.com/articles/aissar57.htm

Fuller Wrecked the Synods - That Is What I Published from 1988 On

To die, to sleep--
To sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come...
Rub my tummy. I need a longer nap. Thanks. Meow.


Narrow-minded Lutheran has left a new comment on your post "Fuller Seminary's Imprint Can Be Found in "Lay Min...":

The "everyone's a minister" mentality is destroying the synods. Is the janitor working at the Lutheran school "divinely called?" This is not said to degrade the janitor, as his earthly vocation is indeed potentially very God-pleasing. But is he "called" to administer Word and Sacrament? Certainly not.

I feel sorry for the SMP guys. I have been criticized for bad-mouthing the SMP, but is is mostly the synod that I fault. They are putting guys out there with a subpar theological education. The handy-dandy NIV/ESV translation isn't going to cut it. They don't even need to know Greek. For example, how are they going to handle Acts 2:40 (be saved vs. save yourselves), which every English translation I know of gets wrong, with the exception of the NASB, which is bad in other areas? From my elementary Greek knowledge, the text clearly appears "passive" in the Greek.

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GJ - There is a place for the SMP type of training, but the synods seem to be putting LPNs in charge of thoracic surgery. The impetus is Fuller training. All the synods ran to Fuller like Garasene pigs. They asked for demonic possession, paid for it, and got it.

Blunting the Sword in Intrepidville

ELCA-WELS-LCMS-ELS! They have so many Fuller-trained leaders that they can do their own Fuller seminars now.
They keep the moolah for themselves.

The Intrepids led the charge against the Jeske-Ski gay ministry meeting, another outgrowth of Church and Change.

I saw one sanctimonious comment, then a second, then only one, now nine comments. Going, going - stuck at nine.

Ten clergy have signed the statement, excluding Steve Kurtzahn (pancake pope) and Poppin Jay Webber. Kurtzahn and Webber posted but did not sign. On Wall Street, this is called a Bear Straddle, to protect against bad results by taking two positions at once.

Almost no one has signed onto the Intrepids' open list. I know of one professor who is a secret Intrepid. Crypto-Intrepids! If you believe the Wisconsin and Little Sect ministers (and I don't), they are all crypto-Intrepids. They would really like to come out in the open, but Muffy and Buffy need orthodontic work, etc.

They are working quietly in the background, so quietly that no one can hear them.

Comparing the numbers - more pastors show up for Change and Change conventions than sign onto the Intrepids. In fact, more show up for a Church and Change coffee hour in Nebraska than sign onto Intrepids.

Moreover, the Intrepids kill each discussion by limiting the comments. That has been the case for decades. The so-called dissenters are so eager to placate the apostates that they do their work for them.

Some people really dig theses, so I will leave some for people to ponder:

1. No one can challenge apostasy while avoiding the doctrinal problem of UOJ, which was not taught in the LCMS or WELS until recently. Walther imported it, but the real launch-point of UOJ came with the 1932 Brief Statement, Pieper's Dogmatics, and Kuske's over-priced UOJ catechism.
   
2. Avoiding, downplaying, and rejecting the efficacy of the Word will only increase the influence of Enthusiasm.
   
3. Taking money from adulterous millionaires to build buildings and pad salaries will never be a good bargain. The foundation of the Kingdom of God is Christ conveyed in the Word of God, not money.
   
4. The emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of vulnerable members will haunt Holy Mother Synod until there is true repentance.
   
5. The synods abuse the clergy because the synod leaders despise the Means of Grace. Troubled congregations see clergy as handy targets for their dysfunctional problems, because they know the CP and DP will help them out in the worst way possible.
   
   

Fuller Seminary's Imprint Can Be Found in "Lay Ministry," SMPs, Etc.

C. Peter Wagner, Pentecostal Babtist at Fuller Seminary, knew a goldmine when he found it.
Fuller Seminary trained Lutheran doctrine and worship out of LCMS-WELS-ELS. ELCA pastors went there too and lapped up the toxins of Enthusiasm.
BC should see the endless list of male and female "staff ministers" in WELS.
David Valleskey, former Mequon president, studied at Fuller.
Valleskey "helped" Brug with The Ministry of the Word.
Frosty Bivens is also a Fuller student, and he is still misleading students at WLS, while writing for FICL.



bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Will Anyone Address the Swindle at the Seminaries?...":

Part of the reason for the LCMS seminaries having so few M Div students, and at the same time a glut of M Div graduates, is a 1989 (21 years ago) LCMS convention resolution said that lay ministers certified by the DP were kosher for life. This broke up many multi-site parishes which would otherwise have supported an ordained pastor with an M. Div or higher degree:

In 2007 the faculties of the seminaries said this practice was against the Augsburg Confession (much less common sense and spiritual sense). The practice is still common and official in the LCMS, however.

Issues Etc had a program on it in Oct 2010, and Steadfast Lutherans posted about that show today, 18 Feb:

More from Pr. Curtis on AC, XIV
February 18th, 2011Post by Todd Wilken

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=13892
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Wednesday, October 27, 2010
Lay “Ministers”
Pastor Heath Curtis of Trinity Lutheran-Worden, IL
http://issuesetc.org/2010/10/
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Book of Concord (Triglotta) PDFs here

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"For several years I've been a Pete Wagner fan. Although I don't see eye to eye with him on many important theological points (he approves of faith healing and speaking in tongues as long as it promotes church growth and he comes from a Billy Graham decision for conversion doctrinal background), he is the most eloquent spokesman of the Church Growth Movement. A prolific author on mission/evangelism/church growth subjects, Wagner is also an excellent teacher and a crystal clear writer."

WELS Pastor Reuel J. Schulz       

The Evangelism Life Line (WELS) Winter, 1980,

                                                       

"Read these books and you might become a Wagner fan too."

WELS Pastor Reuel J. Schulz  

The Evangelism Life Line (WELS) Winter, 1980,                

                                              

"In 1963 he [McGavran] planned to add to the Institute of Church Growth at Eugene an American Division headed by an American minister of church growth convictions, but the plan did not mature. In 1967 the annual Church Growth Seminar at Winona Lake, Indiana, drew in about 20 American ministers and heads of Home Missions Departments." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 14.         
                                             

"The Church Growth Movement has not yet paid enough attention to a critical self-assessment of its methodological presuppositions. Critics of the movement have raised important questions that need to be addressed." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 149.                                                         

"The basic responsibility for the seminar is mine, but I am also assisted by Donald McGavran, Win Arn and John Wimber of the Fuller Evangelistic Association." [Two week Doctor of Ministry seminar every winter at Fuller School of Theology, on church growth] C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 15.                                                        

"The conscious attempt to apply church growth philosophy to America was stimulated in the fall of 1972 by Pastor Charles Miller, then a staff member of Pasadena's Lake Avenue Congregational Church. At Miller's urging, I organized and asked McGavran to team-teach with me a pilot course in church growth designed specifically for American church leaders. We did it only as an experiment, but the results were remarkable: One of the students, Win Arn, left his position with the Evangelical Covenant Church and founded the influential Institute for American Church Growth." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books 1976, p. 15.                                                    

"Church growth consultation began at the Charles E. Fuller Institute in 1975, when it was still called Fuller Evangelistic Association, under C. Peter Wagner and John Wimber. I took over from Wimber in 1978." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Chapter: "Church Growth Consultation," by Carl F. George, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 159.                                                        

"These two lists give us two general categories of signs of the kingdom: Category A: Social signs or signs applied to a general class of people. These include (1) preaching good news to the poor, (2) proclaiming release to the captives, (3) liberating the oppressed, and (4) instituting the Year of Jubilee ('acceptable year of the Lord'). Category B: Personal signs or signs applied to specific individuals. These include (1) restoring sight to blind people, (2) casting out demons and evil spirits, (3) healing sick people, (4) making lame people walk, (5) cleansing lepers, (6) restoring hearing to deaf people, and (7) raising the dead." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 16.                                                    

"Church Growth consultants also draw from the social sciences, including anthropology, sociology, social psychology, psychology, educational psychology, instructional technology, communications, organizational development, management, and marketing." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Chapter: "Church Growth Consultation," by Carl F. George, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 160.                                                       

"When the roster of pioneers of church growth in North America is drawn up, three individuals will deserve a prominent place on it: One is Win C. Arn, one of the students in the first Fuller Seminary course in American Church Growth...Another pioneer is Paul Benjamin, who in 1974 left his position as Professor of New Testament and Church Growth at Lincoln Christian Seminary to establish the National Church Growth Research Center in Washington, D.C." C. Peter Wagner, Study Questions by John Wimber, Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: Regal Books, 1976, p. 17.                                                     

Professional church growth consultant: "A pioneer in this field is Pastor John Wimber of Yorba Linda Friends Church in Orange Country, California. Wimber has recently resigned his pastorate to head up the newly-created Department of Church Growth of the Fuller Evangelistic Association." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books 1976, p. 20.                                                         

"The preacher, in fact, was a fascinating combination of eloquent and illiterate (by his own testimony). In the services I saw fervent singing, joyous clapping of hands, dancing in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, testimonies, prophecies, preaching of the Word, and as a climax the handling of deadly poisonous snakes and drinking of strychnine. I discussed this with several members of the congregation. When I asked why they handled snakes they replied, simply, 'Because Jesus told us to do it as a sign.' Another sign of the kingdom." [Footnote - See C. Peter Wagner, What Are We Missing?, formerly Look Out, The Pentecostals Are Coming, Carol Stream: Creation House, 1973, 1978.] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 23.                                                  

"Win Arn, president and founder of the influential Institute for American Church Growth, is widely respected as a pioneer and major spokesperson for the American Church Growth Movement...He has produced or coproduced almost every film now in use in the area of church growth...'For the Love of Pete.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 230. ip is the son of Win                                                       

"W. Charles 'Chip' Arn is the foremost designer of church growth training curricula and resources used by individual churches and regional districts across the Protestant spectrum...Arn's most significant contribution to date is probably his work in The Master's Plan for Making Disciples, which is the first strategy of evangelism building on and incorporating the principles of church growth into a practical method for equipping laypersons and congregations to effectively reach their unchurched friends and relatives." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 230. Chip is the son of Win                                                     

"Kent Hunter is director of the Church Growth Center, Corunna, Indiana... Hunter sees his major contribution to the Church Growth Movement in the area of theology...Kent Hunter contributed two chapters to this volume: chapter 7, 'Membership Integrity: The Body of Christ with a Backbone,' and chapter 11, 'The Quality Side of Church Growth.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 240f.                                                       

"Roger Leenerts is an executive with the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, serving as associate executive secretary for North American missions on the Board for Mission Services. He has been a key instrument in introducing church growth principles and practices into the LCMS through sponsoring church growth seminars and workshops for key denominational personnel. Under this new emphasis, church planting became the primary mission emphasis for the synod. In the mid seventies only twenty new congregations were being started per year. Currently the number is over 100, and the goal for 1990 is 500 new congregations per year." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 246.                                                   

"Donald McGavran is the founder of the Church Growth Movement. See chapter 1, 'A Tribute to the Founder.'" C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 248.                                                          

"Elmer Matthias is associate professor of practical theology at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, Missouri, an institution of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod...While serving the parish [Zion, Anaheim, California] he enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program in church growth at Fuller Theological Seminary, receiving his degree in 1977. At Concordia Seminary he became the first trained church growth seminary instructor in Lutheran circles, teaching church growth, evangelism, and parish administration." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 250.                                                      

"Lyle Schaller has been parish consultant since 1971 with the Yokefellow Institute, a retreat center in Richmond, Indiana, founded by D. Elton Trueblood. He has conducted approximately eight hundred workshops on church growth, parish planning, leadership, and related subjects." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 260.                                                        

"C. Peter Wagner is the Donald A. McGavran Professor of Church Growth at the Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Missions in Pasadena, California. The School of World Mission became a part of Fuller Seminary in 1965 when Donald McGavran, father of the Church Growth Movement, moved his nonacademinc Institute of Church Growth to Pasadena from Northwest Christian College in Eugene, Oregon. Since that time, Fuller Seminary has been the institutional base for the Church Growth Movement, first in its global expression and later in its North American expression." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271.                                                   

"C. Peter Wagner is the Donald A. McGavran Professor of Church Growth at the Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Missions in Pasadena, California. The School of World Mission became a part of Fuller Seminary in 1965 when Donald McGavran, father of the Church Growth Movement, moved his nonacademinc Institute of Church Growth to Pasadena from Northwest Christian College in Eugene, Oregon. Since that time, Fuller Seminary has been the institutional base for the Church Growth Movement, first in its global expression and later in its North American expression." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271.                                                   

"Recognizing the need for professional church growth consultation, in 1975 he [C. Peter Wagner] invited John Wimber to become the founding director of what is now the Charles E. Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth. Wimber got the Institute off to an excellent start, then left to become the founding pastor of Vineyard Christian Fellowship of Anaheim and Vineyard Ministries Internation... Your Spiritual Gifts Can Help Your Church Grow (Regal, 1979) is approaching the 100,000 mark... Church Growth and the Whole Gospel (Harper and Row, 1981) is a scholarly discussion of criticisms of the Church Growth Movement from the viewpoint of social ethics, in which Wagner did his doctoral work." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271f.                                                 

"Wagner invited McGavran to team teach with him, and the course was a success. Among its students was Win Arn, who almost immediately stepped out in faith and established the Institute for American Church Grwoth, also located in Pasadena. Both Wagner and McGavran were members of the founding board of directors. Arn has given brilliant leadership to the Institute for American Church Growth and ranks as the premier communicator of the Church Growth Movement in North America." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 271f.                                                     

"Wagner was instrumental in the organization of the North American Society for Church Growth, and became its founding president in 1984. In the same year he was honored by Fuller Seminary with the Donald A. McGavran Chair of Church Growth." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 273.                                                     

 "Waldo Werning is director of the Stewardship Growth Center of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and an adjunct professor at Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne. He teaches a seminar course and conducts seminars which focus on 'supply side stewardship,' integrating church growth principles with a stewardship program." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 274.                                                       

"Stephen A. Wagner is senior pastor at Prince of Peace Lutheran Church in Carrollton, Texas. In addition he serves as chairman of the Church Growth Task Force of the Texas District, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod...He is the author of Heart to Heart: Sharing Christ with a Friend (Corunna, Indiana: Church Growth Center). He is also a contributing author to the Church Planting Manual (North American Missions Department of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, 1985), and he has written articles for denominational publications. Currently he is a candidate for the Doctor of Ministry degree in church growth from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 274.                                                   

"In January of 1982, he [Wimber] taught a course at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he is an adjunct professor, called 'Signs, Wonders, and Church Growth.' Wimber taught this course for four years and it became one of the most popular courses at Fuller." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 275.                                                        

"Cell. Sometimes called a kinship circle; a small group of 8-12 believers; an important part of the church's struct which has the primary functions of spiritual accountability and intimacy and secondary functions of Bible, prayer, and healing." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Body Life. The clustering of Christians together in a shared intimacy to achieve growth by all members of the body working together and building up one another." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Body Evangelism. A perspective which emphasizes the goal of evangelism as making disciples who are incorporated into the body of Christ, the result of which is church growth." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283.                                                         

"Church. An assembly of professed believers under the discipline of the Word of God, organized to carry out the Great Commission, administer the ordinances, and minister with spiritual gifts." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 283f. Matthew 28                                                        

"Church Growth Principles. Worldwide truths which, when properly applied, along with other principles, contribute significantly to the growth of the church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                         

"Church Growth Eyes. A characteristic of Christians who have achieved an ability to see the possibilities for growth and to apply appropriate strategies to gain maximum results for Christ and the Church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                         

"Church Growth Conscience. The conviction that God's will is for the body of Christ to grow." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 284.                                                          

"Communicant Members. The hard core of the church, those members who principally finance and support the church's existence." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 285.                                                       

 "Conversion Church Growth. Those outside the church come to rest their faith intelligently in Jesus Christ and are baptized and added to the church." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 286.                                                          

"Conversion. Participation by non-Christians in a genuine decision for Christ, a sincere turning from the old gods and evils spirits, and a determined purpose to live as Christ would have people live." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 286.                                                         

"Discerning the Body. Seeing a local church or a denomination as it really is and obtaining and analyzing information about it and its members." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 287.                                                          

"Faith Projection. A projected growth goal based on present growth patterns, plus a trust in the Lord for an increase in the harvest. Usually a five year projection." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 289.                                                          

"Fluxuating Receptivity. The responsiveness of individuals and groups waxes and wanes due to the Spirit's peculiar activity in the hearts of people." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                       

 "Follow-up Gap. The difference between the number of persons who make decisions for Christ in a given evangelistic effort and those who go on to become disciples." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                         

"Felt Need. Describes the conscious wants and desires of a person; considered to be an opportunity for Christian response which stimulates within the person a receptivity to the gospel." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 290.                                                          

"Harvest Theology. The presentation of the gospel which results in the actual decision of nonbelievers to follow Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 291.                                                          

"Life Style Evangelism. Role modeling by Christians so that non-Christians will identify with the life of Christ in the believer as well as the gospel message, and will better hear the message. This approach to evangelism is rooted in theology and sociology." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 293.                                                         

"Perfecting. The process of nurture and development (following discipling) that is required to take believers from the initial acceptance of Jesus Christ to mature faith and obedience; sanctification." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 296.                                                       

 "Planned Parenthood. A congregation decides to become a mother church and plants a daughter church. Intentional church planting." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 297.                                                       

 "Social Action. Christian involvement in changing the structures of society in order to help the poor and oppressed." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 299.                                                           

"Soil Testing. An evangelistic strategy that seeks out those people who are open to receiving the gospel at the present time." [Note the Mark Braun NWL article about the sower and the seed, employing this soil testing concept.] C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 300.                                                     

 "Winnable People. Those who are considered receptive to the gospel; those who will respond. See HARVEST PRINCIPLE; RESISTANCE-RECEPTIVITY AXIS." C. Peter Wagner, ed., with Win Arn and Elmer Towns, Church Growth: The State of the Art, Wheaton: Tyndale House, 1986, p. 302.                                                           

"I know these questions are real because I was asking them myself when I first came, during my second missionary furlough from Bolivia, to study at Fuller under McGavran. Frankly, I entered his program in 1967 as a skeptic. But I emerged an enlightened person." C. Peter Wagner (study questions by Rev. John Wimber), Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: G/L Regal Books, 1976, p. 35.                                                        

"Church growth is that science which investigates the planting, multiplication, function and health of Christian churches as they relate specifically to the effective implementation of God's-commission to 'make disciples of all nations' (Matt. 28:19-20 RSV). Church growth strives to combine the eternal theological principles of God's Word concerning the expansion of the church with the best insights of contemporary social and behavioral sciences, employing as its initial frame of reference, the foundational work done by Donald McGavran." [Constitution, Academy for American Church Growth] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. 75.                                                   

Acknowledgments to: Donald McGavran, Win Arn, John Wimber, Paul Benjamin, Dennis Oliver, Harold Lindsell...Jack Hyles...Robert Schuller.... C. Peter Wagner, Study Questions by John Wimber, Your Church Can Grow, Glendale: Regal Books, 1976, p. 9.                                                         

 "In 1980 the Church Growth Movement celebrated its twenty-fifth anniversary. The historical even now regarded as the beginning of the movement was Donald McGavran's publication of The Bridges of God in 1955." C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. x.                                                          

"Lyle Schaller, for example, now characterizes the emergence of the Church Growth Movement as 'the most influential development of the 1970's on the American religious scene." [In the Foreword to Donald McGavran and George G. Hunter III, Church Growth Strategies that Work (Nashville: Abingdon, 1980) p. 7.] C. Peter Wagner, Church Growth and the Whole Gospel, New York: Harper and Row, 1981, p. xi.                                                       

Will Anyone Address the Swindle at the Seminaries?

Holy Mother Sow, we all love to feed off you.
Too bad there are not enough feeding stations for the future pastors."


bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "LCMS Seminary Costs":

An offsite post that may have been a reaction to (or at least informed by) the Icha-posts on LCMS seminary costs is here:

Economics in One Lesson -or- My Plan to Save the Seminaries, 15 Feb 2011
http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2011/02/economics-in-one-lesson-or-my-plan-to.html

These posts are related to the above post:

Don't go to the seminary, 30 Apr 2010
http://gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2010/04/dont-go-to-seminary.html

Challenging Article on Seminary Enrollment by Rev. Heath Curtis
February 18th, 2011, by Pastor Tim Rossow
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=13885
===============
Icha-posts on the wildly spiraling upward LCMS seminary tuition costs:

Church Growth Seminaries Use Failing Business Model
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/12/church-growth-seminaries-use-failing.html

Mercy! - The LCMS Budget Is Corrupt Beyond Belief
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/01/mercy-lcms-budget-is-corrupt-beyond.html

Your LCMS Benevolence Dollars - Not At Work Supporting the Seminaries
http://4ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/01/your-lcms-benevolence-dollars-not-at.html

Maybe Because Bruce Church Told the Truth about Sky-High Tuition and the 600 Empty Parish Lie
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/09/maybe-because-bruce-church-told-truth.html
---
Someone Thanked Ichabod - Really Bruce Church - For the Coverage on Seminary Tuition Swindles
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/11/someone-thanked-ichabod-really-bruce.html
---
Here are some Icha-Megatron quotes on the supposed looming pastor shortage:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/02/worship-part-iv-thy-strong-word.html

***

GJ - "We need to pay the Nagels and the Scaers of the world to work at theology full time."

Where would we be without David Scaer attacking justification by faith, promoting UOJ and Roman Catholicism?

Mischke Conferring with ELCA Archbishop. Jeske Free Conference

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "The Jeske Free Conference with ELCA Gay Activists:...":

I specifically remember when you exposed the Snowbird Conference in CN. I also remember the picture of Mischke, Bohlmann, and Chilstrom all seated next to each other. One WELS called worker said to me, "about that picture, it is not what you think that it is".


***

GJ - I subscribed to The Lutheran magazine and found a great gap between their truthful coverage and The Northwestern Lutheran's lies by omission.

I sent Otten the photo of all three chiefs conferring together. The visual proof created a certain hullabaloo, which died down soon after.

No one care to do anything substantial.

Jeske is promoting Change or Die! as a free conference.

But at a free conference:

1. The event is advertised as a free conference, not as a united ministry front on how to do things right.
   
2. A free conference is organized to discuss doctrinal differences without showing doctrinal unity. This event is clearly showing unity of method and doctrine.
   
3. A free conference would display common courtesy by communicating their plans with the synod presidents, but this joint-ministry event was a complete surprise to WELS SP Schroeder. I thought he told Church and Change to keep him posted on their plans. Also, Gurgle told one pastor that Church and Change no longer existed. For a dismembered lobbying group they seem terribly active and destructive.

The Jeske Free Conference with ELCA Gay Activists:This Has Gone On a Long Time.Did You Object?

Episcopal Bishop Robinson and His life-partner.
Fellowship with ELCA means fellowship with The Episcopal Church.
Fellowship with Jeske means the same.

"CHIEFS CONFER: Waiting their turn to speak at a recent Lutheran leadership consultation are Dr. Carl Mischke, president of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church...Bohlmann...and ELCA Bishop Herbert W. Chilstrom. At the July 18-20 event in Snowbird, Utah, in the Wasatch Mountains, 130 Lutheran leaders gathered to articulate a 'vision of leadership' for their respective church bodies."
The Lutheran, (ELCA) September 4, 1991, p. 33.

Did you object 20 years ago? I did. I published the material in Christian News. I wrote letters. I met with DP Mueller.

When WELS joined the multi-cultural project with ELCA, I let people know.

When WELS joined with ELCA to produce the Joy Radio show. Did you object? I did. When "Dr." Carl Mischke lied about it in a letter to a WELS pastor, I phoned the ELCA chairman of the group and asked him about WELS participation. The Synod President of WELS was calling him a liar. Even the man's secretary said, in astonishment, "We had Tom Barber [WELS] here all the time!"

The lies had to be modified somewhat, but they continued.

Now you will hear that WELS is not involved in Lutheran World Relief, that Missouri's LWR work is somehow different because they are in a different compartment of the egg carton called LWR. "Anybody home?" WELS say, "Nope." ELCA says, "Nope." Missouri says, "Then we are all alone here." WELS says, "Yup." ELCA says "Yup."

If you want to object to Jeske's newest nose-thumbing, you will have to ask yourself:
1. What were you doing about this during the last 20 years?
2. How many lies are you willing to overlook?

Secrecy Does Not Work - Except To Protect Corruption and False Doctrine.WELS Official Secrets Act

The favorite method in WELS, to keep things going downhill, is the Official Secrets Act. Everything is a secret. Murders? - that is a secret. Lawsuits lost by WELS - secret. DP Ed Werner in state prison? - he's an ex-con now, so that is a secret, just as it was before. Dozens of clergy and officials supporting a known false teacher and serial adulterer? - blank look. Working with ELCA? - a big secret.

Those who object to the apostasy of WELS are managed by the Official Secrets Act. Anything done by the plaintiff must be kept a secret. Why? So the officials can deny that anyone objected to anything any time. However, the aggrieved officials can start trashing the plaintiff to their heart's content, because they are concerned with the smooth and efficient working of Holy Mother Synod.

For example, pastors and laity got involved as a group in dealing with Glende and Ski, two notorious plagiarists, in Appleton. They did their work. They studied the public material. The attorney was one of them, as he has stated in his own blog, so they had a witness, perhaps more. I had no connection with them, although I was blamed for their dislike of false doctrine and plagiarism. I did have plenty of material, backed by linked, on the plagiarism poster boys. Tim and Ski also did as many self-destructive things as anyone could imagine - and then some.

The results of these secret letters and meetings were - zilch. No one knew exactly what was said and written, because it was a secret. Who participated? I do not know, because it was a secret.

Since it was a secret, Deputy Doug Englebrecht felt secure enough to duck the promised meeting, leaving a typed letter for them to read. What was in the letter? That is a secret. If I had a copy, it would be posted. Perhaps it will be later, if someone who knows someone who knows someone leaks it.

Cap'n Huff-N-Puff also sent one of his appointed lackeys to listen to Ski and judge his orthodoxy. The sycophant visited The CORE and found it a delightful depenser of orthodox doctrine and practice, according to Doug. The man might have started foaming at the mouth. We will never know, because it is a secret. Using WELS' criteria, I will not believe it unless I have a video from the lackey - and even then... (WELS can be very strict, you know.)

The lackey visitation reminds me of a parallel incident in ELCA. Even the ELCA pastors in California were offended that HerChurch in San Fran was having pagan feminist rosaries and other inanities in their worship service. The ELCA bishop sent a lackey. Does this sound familiar yet? And yes! The lackey found that the service was completely orthodox, even though he/she attended unannounced. The bishop reported this fact, so we only have the bishop's report of the lackey's report. But we now rest assured that none of the videos posted by HerChurch are true or even honest. The debbil probably produced them. Or Ichabod is just getting ELCA pastors upset over nothing.

Back to Appleton and the Plagiarist Pastor Poster Boys - Tim and Ski. What happened because of all these secret meetings, letters, conversations, reports? This study group must have produced something. I don't know their names and I don't have their response - everything is secret. I am not being coy - I do not hold back information when I have it.

Nothing happened. Correction. Something did happened. Beating up the attorney escalated several notches. Trashing the group went into high gear. Here is just one example - they were all falsely accused of working with me when they were not.

That is pretty insulting, because Deputy Doug accused them of being dishonest accomplices and willing stooges. Such is his self-loathing that he would accuse others of being what he clearly is.

In contrast, when the Intrepids identified another example of plagiarism in Appleton--it's the water--the pastors apologized and removed the Swindle material from the WELS parish websty.

Also, there is real activity because:
1. The attorney published his material.
2. The Intrepids publicly objected to the joint WELS-ELCA-LCMS workshop.

The lesson people should learn is this - hang together or hang separately.

Secret objections are not only buried - they are perverted by the perverted leaders who manage this farce.

I have to grade some papers. My Icha-widow is awake and she thinks I am earning a living.

Deception and CG Began in Columbus, Ohio:Where Glende Grew Up.Tragedy and Farce

The St. Peter Ski/Glende debacle is an open, weeping sore in their own district of WELS. The new Change or Die! pan-Lutheran conference is just another symptom.

The holier-than-thou WELS leaders do not like having me rehearse their pathetic history in Columbus, Ohio, where this really started. Glende and Ski are proof of the adage:

History always repeats itself twice: first time as tragedy, second time as farce. - Karl Marx

The Missouri District, LCMS, District President kicked Floyd Luther Stolzenburg out of the ministry after he was caught in flagrante delicto. The DP stopped at the church on Saturday, forced a resignation, and preached instead of Floyd on Sunday.

Floyd's first wife divorced him. The aggrieved husband sued Floyd, the parish, and various LCMS entities. The lawsuit and divorce papers are in the public record.

Floyd told everyone he had a "Scriptural divorce." The WELS pastors knew better, but Floyd latched onto George Skestos donations to create a Church Growth agency for WELS. Dave Peters (Union Grove) was vicar at St. Paul, German Village, at the time and wrote an essay on it. The WELS pastors called him a liar and an idiot for telling the truth about Lutheran Parish Services.

The circuit pastor, whose church (St. Paul, German Village) did not even belong to WELS, had semi-open commmunion and Lodge members, knew the truth. Skestos was a member of his church. Skestos was also a member of Marc Schroeder's congregation. As Richard Starr said, Skestos went to St. Paul with his wife and to Prince of Peace with his mistress. Big laugh.

Marc hated his first wife out of the parsonage and married a teacher at St. Paul, a girl he knew from earlier days, but a prof's daughter, so that was A-OK.

WELS ended up with two divorced ex-ministers running their Church Growth agency - Floyd Luther Stolzenburg and Roger Zehms (Martin Luther, St. Louis). Both of them loved CG, but Zehms was more subtle about it. Both were paid by Skestos and worked out of his real estate office.

There is a lot more to this but I will stick to what is in the public record or witnessed and known by many different sources.

I spent five years uncovering all the lies and false doctrine involved with this gang. Kovaciny was at Lamb of God in Columbus. He is still Floyd's lapdog.

Floyd attracted a whole pack of lapdogs, because of Skestos money. John Shep courted him. Jay Webber, guardian of Little Sect doctrine, had no problems with Kovo preaching at Floyd's new Masonic church and bagging the money for Thoughts of Faith. Marvin Schwan's Foundation kicked in money to match Floyd's. Oh, I would love to see the forensic accountants follow that trail.

Floyd's church was investigated by the police for embezzling.

In short, these pastors and officials did nothing to stop the spread of false doctrine, the promotion and new congregation of Stolzenburg. They fed the sheep to the wolf:

1. DP Robert Mueller, Michigan District.
   
2. District VP Paul Kuske, Michigan District.
   
3. DP John Seifert, Michigan District.
   
4. The Michigan District Praesidium, two of whom were known adulterers.
   
5. Circuit Pastor Keith Roehl, St. Paul, German Village.
   
6. Roger Kovaciny, Lamb of God, then Thoughts of Faith. WELS and ELS.
   
7. Jay Webber, Cape G., then Cape Cod, then Thoughts of Faith.
   
8. Wayne Laitenen, Ohio Conference Chairman.
   
9. Rich Krause, DMin, Ohio Conference Chairman.
   
10. Circuit Pastor Keith Roehl.
    
11. Wally Oelhafen, District Mission Board Chairman.
    
12. Fred Adrian, District Mission Board Chairman.
    
13. Laity on the District Mission Board.
    
14. John Shep.
    
15. The Ohio Conference pastors, who saw all this develop, knew the facts, and avoided dealing with anything. One of them, Keith Free, is now in charge of missions for all of WELS.
    

Tim Glende - St. Paul, German Village Tim never says on his anonymous blog that I know him back to the ninth grade. He visited Erin Joy in the hospital. When we moved to Columbus for my call in WELS, we gave Tim and his brother rides back and forth, Columbus to MLS. We knew their parents were busy at St. Paul's, so Tim and Tom always had a seat when we took extra trips back and forth.

Tim's parents were always very nice. We went to many St. Paul's events. We also knew his grandfather, taking him on trips to Mequon. We stayed at his uncle John Brug's house at Mequon.

Because the WELS/ELS pastors refused to do their sworn duties as clergy, avoiding their obligations as citizens, Tim grew up in a jungle of apostasy and wink-wink adultery.

Have a few dozen flings with married women and teens as a "conservative" LCMS pastor? No problem - you can teach at St. Paul's, lie about your divorce, and pretend to be a pastor again. In fact, VP Paul Kuske and Pastor Robert Schumann will write letters of recommendation so you can get another call and really be a CG pastor again.

As for those who get in the way of clergy adultery being rewarded and false doctrine being spread, we will pound them into the ground like a tent-stake, while praising you to Heaven.

Of course, this is going to cost a lot of money. We don't sell indulgences for free. If the money flows, so will the cheap grace.

Everything happening in Appleton was started by the money-grubbing wolves in Columbus. The first was a tragedy; Appleton is the farce.

Worship at The SORE: Multi-Sites Are Parasites

There is a God has left a new comment on your post "Stealth Calendar at The CORE.Does This Need Commen...":

This is how the CORE describes its worship:

"Maybe you have had a bad experience at church and it has led you to think that church worship doesn't connect with you, your heart or life. At The CORE, we'll try to change that impression with straight honest talk about issues that concern you as well as the feelings that trouble you. Our music and messages will put your life into the context of God's Word so that you can see his purpose and promises for you."

How would the CORE like it if my church set up shop next door and advertised worship like this:

"Maybe you have had a bad experience at a church that met in a theater and it has led you to think that theater worship is shallow and self-serving. At (fill in the name of your church), we'll talk about what Jesus has done for you. Our worship will bring God himself to you through sermons and sacraments. You can be sure that in our worship God's Word will not return to Him empty, but accomplish the purpose for which He sent it."

Nah, forget it, that's boring.

***

GJ - The parasitic mission model has always been basic to Church Growth/Emergents. Fuller bigshot C. Peter Wagner (lavishly praised by WELS in the Quarterly) admitted decades ago that "Church Growth principles do not work."

The mega-churches, when they work, are simply gatherings of people who already belong to a church. Fuller has pulled in many millions of denominational offerings to wreck the denominations. Fuller is the chief beneficiary. Robert Schuller claims to be the model, and he probably was in many ways. But ol' Bob is broke and his Crystal Cathedral is bankrupt, literally.

WELS deliberately starts parasitic new congregations, designed to draw off the local WELS members into a spiffy new circus. WELS did that in the Love's Park area (Larry Olson's one and only parish, which never grew).

WELS has another one of those para-sites in Indianapolis, led by a spikey-haired graduate of Patterson's Exponential road trip.

Gurgle is trying to jump-start yet another para-site a short distance from Rock N Roll, Doebler's WELS mission. Gurgle-Patterson will move the church school there and innocently start worship services. But it is going to take barrels of money.

---

There is a God has left a new comment on your post "Worship at The SORE: Multi-Sites are Parasites":

Remember Monkey Junction (Lutheran Church)? Here's MJ's web site invitation:

"If....you’ve found church boring and dull, give us a try at Life!" (www.lifelutheran.com)

How would Life like it if I moved in next door and worded my web site:

"If you’ve found your gown-less-pastor-praise-band-centered "church" talks too much about your feelings, but not much about Jesus, give us a try at.....!"

***

GJ - There Is, I would love to see those ads. I used to tell WELS pastors, "We are going to try the Means of Grace for a few months. If that doesn't work, we will go back to gimmicks."

Deception is the Name of the Game

Groeschel, Stanley, and Ski are grouped together in this fun-filled Photoshop.
Ski adores the sermons of Groeschel (Methodist Pietist) and the leadership of Stanley (Babtist but dishonest about it).


There is a God has left a new comment on your post "Stealth Calendar at The CORE.Does This Need Commen...":

"The Change or Die! brochure brags that Ski has 300 people each Sunday evening. How many are WELS members from the area? If services were held Sunday morning, how many would attend?"

Yes, GJ, inquiring minds want to know. Just how has the CORE fulfilled its mission, which reads in part:

About the CORE: Where we've been

"The purpose of (the CORE) is to have a church that, without compromising our beliefs, removes all barriers possible to reaching people outside the church."

Anyone with access to the WELS 2010 Statistical Report? It should be there in black and white under "adult confirmations" or "Baptisms" (esp. adult).

(..."without compromising our beliefs,"... - LOL!)

***

GJ - The CORE was a lie from the start, promoted at St. Peter, Freedom as a separate church. However, Ski was listed as a St. Peter pastor in the WELS Yearbook. Some people "join" The CORE by joining St. Peter, as transfers from other WELS congregations in the area.

The CORE is really an excuse to go multi-site, which is the Emergent Church fantasy. Apparently the St. Peter members were sold on a "new mission" when it was really a method of changing the congregation forever and importing an alien, anti-Lutheran doctrine and worship. Of course, Ron Ash prepped St. Peter for a few decades, as chairman of Church and Change. The CORE is the final assault, Ron's revenge. He was there for popcorn, colo opening night extravaganza.

Do you recall that the attorney at St. Peter was not allowed to transfer to another WELS church for doctrinal reasons? And yet local WELS members can join The CORE for being anti-Lutheran, surely a doctrinal reason if there ever was one.

False doctrine is always advanced by lying. If they told the truth about their teaching and their plans, no one would follow. They pick off the willing sheep, one by one. Where are the DPs and CPs, under the haystacks, fast asleep - with Little Bo Peep.

---

dobrin (http://dobrin.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Deception is the Name of the Game":

Members unfortunately trust these manipulative fools with their salvation.

***

GJ - Unfortunately, the clergy and teachers keep re-electing DPs like Englebrecht. The DPs appoint the CPs, who are the only ones who can depose the man who appointed them.

John Seifert, as a CP, wanted me to bring charges against DP Mueller, but Seifert supported Mueller. Mueller betrayed the trust of so many that he chose to run away rather than run again. So Seifert became DP. Mueller got a free trip to Russia.

See how that works, little flocks?

A Plea to the Syn Conference from the Icha-widows:"Stop Enabling Jackson!"

Do you have a Soul Cafe,
where your parish sells bad coffee at jacked-up prices?
Get with it, sluggards.
Get your pastor a spikey hair-do, too.

An Icha-widow wrote a note about her husband reading Ichabod late at night, on Valentine's Day.

She said, "Since you were responding to him, I assume your wife is also an Icha-widow."

In fact, my wife claims to be the very first Icha-widow. She said, "I know when you are writing, because you are leaning forward at the screen with an earnest look on your face."

The Wisconsin, Missouri, and Mankato sects were once considered safe sects for Lutherans, but their continued deceptions and false doctrine speak volumes about the depth--or rather the shallowness--of their synod's leadership.

I am not picking on one man, as if a Sect President can change matters on his own. All three SPs do show a remarkable allergy to the "apt to teach" description of a pastor. Where they should be troubling the water, like the angel awaited by the paralytic in John 5:4, they are pouring the oil of PR on every important matter. The really bad leaders, like Kieschnick and Gurgle, aggressively pursue destructive doctrine and suicidal policies, while their replacements remain in neutral.

The problem is far more basic than something to be fixed with a new man in office. The voting church members want a politician who pleases, or anesthetizes, the largest share of the synod population.

The SPs are not the sharp end of the Sword of the Spirit. Apparently they see themselves as the scabbard where the Word rests and stays safe from nicks.

And the comfort-loving, inert, see-no-false-doctrine faculty members? Do not let me get started. Teaching is a good gig. Students are respectful and ready to learn. The pay is quite good, especially professors do so little original research and writing (unlike the old days). The hours for tenured professors are laughably short, and the vacations are endless. Name a Syn Conference book worth more than a dime novel. The last one I can think of was by Kurt Marquart.

Statistics about Congregations Leaving ELCA

Fuller's influence has grown faster than kudzu vine in Missouri and WELS.
Look at how they ELCA victims flock to flee from Missouri and WELS.

American Lutheran Publicity Bureau

A quick run through the table tells me (numbers might be off a little. I don't do Excel, so I imported into an Access database, and did not hyper-tweak the queries.)
Left ELCA -      384 congregations
Former ALC -   239 congregations
Former LCA -   127 congregations
Former ALEC-     3 congregations
ELCA -              18 congregations
Status pending - 93 congregations  (about half are ALC)
(There are 140 congregations listed as "new start" and no former PCB. Don't know what those are).
There are 180 congregations where the first or second vote failed, according to the list.

More than 1,000 baptized members - 51 congregations
500-999 baptized members -             78 congregations
200-499 baptized members -             60 congregations
Under 200 baptized members -        189 congregations
Under 100 baptized members -          57 congregations

To the AALC - 7
To the AFLC - 5
To ELCM -      4
To FELC -       2
To LCMC -   220
To LCMS -      3
To NALC -     70
To NALC/LCMC - 3
To Unknown -   60

Stealth Calendar at The CORE.Does This Need Commentary?

The CORE

Events from one or more calendars could not be shown here because you do not have the permission to view them. 

http://www.gotocore.com/corecalendar.html

***

GJ - One of the more glaring defects of WELS Church and Change is the need for secrecy. People ask in vain:

1. Where are copies of these plagiarized sermons from Groeschel? After all, Groeschel himself stated that pastors should give him credit for copying his original work.
   
2. What pastoral conference was attended in Seattle, since WELS held no conferences at all that week?
   
3. Who is funding this extravagant pipeline from Groeschel's LifeChurch.tv? Shouldn't the Methodists kick in some money for promoting Methodism?
   
4. The Change or Die! brochure brags that Ski has 300 people each Sunday evening. How many are WELS members from the area? If services were held Sunday morning, how many would attend?
   
5. Apart from Daddy Warbucks, what is the giving there? Can this model work in other areas - having a vanity project that burns up oodles of money to gather members from the same synod for evening rock music?
   

---

old-curmudgeon (http://old-curmudgeon.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Stealth Calendar at The CORE.Does This Need Commen...":

Stealth too often means untrustworthy.


***

GJ - For sure, Old Curmudgeon. Most churches promote everything on their calendars rather than hiding them. The CORE's sermon titles were listed far in advance, which is how people connected them so easily with Groeschel's.

Pastor Samelson Asked the Intrepids

Change or Dye!
Norma Boeckler thought the yolk-colored hair was a bit much.

Pastor Jeff Samelson said...

I guess what I was most curious about with the advertising for this conference was not the influence on "tuned-in Confessional Lutherans" (of which readers of Ichabod would presumably be a subset) but rather its influence on, well, those who wouldn't necessarily know any better -- both individuals and churches within confessional bodies and those within other Lutheran denominations (like ELCA). In other words, how many people would find out about such a conference and come to the conclusion, "Oh, isn't it nice to see all these different Lutherans united in such a worthy endeavor!"

I'm guessing you wouldn't want to handle it here in the comments section, but it occurred to me that you (IL) might wish to anticipate and answer various questions and counter-arguments by spelling out what makes participation by a WELS pastor in a conference like "Change or Die" different from participation in something like the "Confessional Christian Worldview" Seminars that were held in various WI and MN locations in the last decade (I'm not aware that they're still being held, but they could be); these included both WELS/ELS and non-WELS/ELS speakers and were advertised outside WELS and ELS, as well. (I'm assuming that you would not have found fault with those seminars, as I don't recall hearing any criticism of them from confessional sources.)

FEBRUARY 16, 2011 8:06 PM

***

GJ - The message WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect have been giving for decades is this -

ELCA's (ALC/LCA/AELC) confession of faith does not matter to us at all. We can work together. We don't mind your health insurance paying for the abortions of your church workers. Not at all. 


Gay clergy? You should see Party in the MLC!


There are many legalists in our midst. They do not understand the Gospel or our need to work together. We appreciate your help in keeping these joint efforts a secret. Word got out from a certain writer, now a legalistic blogger, that we were working together. Thanks to you, we tamped that down. In fact, no one really believes how much we do together. 


Love and kisses, always - the Syn Conference.