April of 2009

Class of 1989, The Sausage Factory

Original Post

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Fifty WELS Pastors Still Think Highly of Luther":

Is it acceptable to leave a post with the name anonymous if you are simply embarrassed to be reading this web page? I feel the tone of this page is similar to the feeling of juicy gossip; "It feels good to talk about people and pretend to be able to read their hearts and know their faith from across the internet."

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GJ - It is appropriate for WELS apostates to communicate their sanctimonious concern anonymously. In fact, most of their work is done through making snide and slanderous remarks behind the backs of their fellow-pastors, their very own classmates: "brain-damaged, senile," etc.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comment Department":

Memo
From:Gregory (The Pot) Jackson
To: WELS Pastors (The Kettle)

Message: I can't believe how black you are.

I remember when you were a colloquy "student" at WLS in 1988/1989. You walked around like you were God's gift to WELS. Have you found a church body that is small enough for your intolerence, yet big enough for your ego?

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GJ - Typical Sausage Factory stuff. I wonder why people are not lining up four-abreast to join this group.

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Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":

O.K. I've identified myself. You can easily figure out who I am if you have a WELS Yearbook and a basic knowledge of hip hop nomenclature.

First, to define a term: Tolerate -- Put up with something even if you don't like it (I tolerate smokers in public places, but I don't like the smell of their smoke).

What would I tolerate? (I can't force anyone else to tolerate these things, but I tolerate them.) I tolerate Lutheran ministers who worship in a contemporary style. I actually prefer a blended style of worship, but I tolerate contemporary style.

What don't I tolerate? I don't tolerate false teaching of any kind. I don't tolerate the watering down of true teaching of any kind. However, I don't see WELS pastors who use contemporary styles of worshp as necessarily compromising doctrine. If I saw evidence of this happening. I would speak out against it.

It seems like so many who post here (and I've only been visiting since yesterday and won't be back after Sunday) find pastors using contemporary styles in worship and then start looking for false doctrine. Every variance in wording is seen as heresy when there just plain isn't any heresy there.

O.K. I've said my piece and I won't be posting again because I find this a monumental waste of time and energy when there are souls beyond our care who are dying and we are doing nothing but arguing about style.

Oh, and there's this: "The future is yours. At least until the moon darkens, the sun no longer gives it's light, the trumpets sound and Christ returns to judge the quick and the dead. Not much of a future but it's yours while the prince of this world feeds his church with the carrion of false doctrine." That sounds more like Spurgeon or some other "Babtist" than it sounds like the writings of a Lutheran.

Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo's audience

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Jeru the Damaja has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":

In case anyone cares at this point, the person posting above is Pastor Joel Lillo of Trinity (Appleton, WI).

Since he won't be posting again, I figured his sole post should be cited.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "April of 2009":

Attributed to Pastor Lillo, Oh, and there's this: "The future is yours. At least until the moon darkens, the sun no longer gives it's light, the trumpets sound and Christ returns to judge the quick and the dead. Not much of a future but it's yours while the prince of this world feeds his church with the carrion of false doctrine." That sounds more like Spurgeon or some other "Babtist" than it sounds like the writings of a Lutheran.

Since he's quoting my statement I thought I provide the Scripture to show it's not what Pastor Lillo thought it sounded like:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I still stand by that statement. More than can be said for most of the apostates who dare to write down their confessions.

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GJ - Tis funny how Lillo is always dropping one last stinkbomb before parting, his absolutely last post ever. His last blog ever (several times ago, too).

How Times Have Changed - 1998

What is this woman saying? Post a comment.

District Convention News, 1998

Northern Wisconsin

Joel Lillo

World missions: We heard from Richard Russow from Albania and Pieter Reid from Indonesia. Both had been forced to leave their work because of civil unrest. These missionaries remind us that the work of carrying God's Word to the world can be dangerous, but rewarding.

Merger: By a near unanimous vote, the delegates approved the merger of the Northern Wisconsin District Institutional Ministries with the institutional ministries of Madison Institutional Ministries, Inc. and Wisconsin Lutheran Institutional Ministry, Inc.

Called worker shortage: Delegates were urged to communicate more actively the need for young men and women to prepare for the privilege of full-time work in the public ministry.

Convention paper: Wayne Mueller, administrator of the Board for Parish Services, presented "What Do We Mean, Jesus Is the Lord of the Church?"

Too Evil To Pass Up

The Church is Immaculate and Indefectible

April 22nd, 2010

After each campaign of attacks against her, the Church always emerges stronger and more splendorous than before

Msgr. João Scognamiglio Clá Dias, EP

The barrage of reports which, in recent weeks, has attempted to stain the Catholic Church, using the abuses of children committed by a portion of Catholic priests as a pretext, has reached an inconceivable climax.

Bent on fanning the flames, various agencies of social communication have delved into the past, in search of new allegations involving the Vicar of Christ on Earth, Pope Benedict XVI, in which, however, they have roundly failed.

That there are disordered and unworthy priests, no one can deny; that horrible abuses have been committed, and certainly even in a number greater than recorded, must be acknowledged.

But to use the very grave, yet isolated offences (sic) of a minority of clerics to tarnish priests at large, is an injustice. And to employ this as a guise to attempt to overthrow the Church is diabolical.

However, the more the Church is infiltrated by the libertarian, relativistic and neo-pagan spirit of our age, the more it may be feared that crimes of paedophilia will occur. From this stems the need to implant a rigorous selection system in seminaries, so that only those who do not have a propensity to conspire with the world, but who want to teach the practice of Catholic doctrine in all its purity and to serve as an example may be admitted as candidates to the priesthood.

The present publicity campaign against the Church undermines a truth of which history provides an unequivocal testimony: it was the Catholic Church that freed the world from immorality, and it is because the world is rejecting the Church that it has once again sunk into the mire from which it was rescued.

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GJ - Brushing aside his ill-chosen words, I have to point out some of the biggest errors in this infallibly written post.

1. Rome has never recovered its splendor. The Reformation gored the beast of the papacy, and the monster remains mortally wounded.
2. The Church of Rome has been notorious in its scandals, which lately have been world-wide for the last few decades, but under-reported.
3. Before and after the Reformation, the popes have often been known for their disgusting behavior, greed, and corruption. "Borgia pope" is considered the gold standard of immorality and corruption.
4. The papacy has always had a problem with homosexuality. Luther said the people worshiped the cardinals as gods if they were satisfied with a woman.
5. Very few of the priests have been pedophiles, interested in pre-adolescent children. Most of them have been homosexuals and a minority of them have been involved in heterosexual scandals. See #4.
6. This prelate repeats ELS Sem Prez Gaylin Schmeling's warning that dealing with scandals "hurts the face of the church." That is why the scandals will continue. Luther said - When bad is good and good is bad, nothing can be done.

Problems with Infallibility and Holy Mother Church - Indefectibility

This is the best version of the Book of Concord.

Long ago and far away, a pope resisted the first attempts to impose infallibility on his office. The reason was - crafty clergy wanted to bind him to the previous decision of another pope. He refused infallibility.

Later, the misnamed Pope Pius IX took on the mantle of infallibility and even tried to cure people miraculously.

WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect on the Prairie are in a bind they created for themselves. They have adopted an attitude of infallibility.

Furthermore, they have sided with the Enthusiasts in several major areas of thought.

One is Universal Objective Justification, which came from Halle Pietist George C. Knapp.

The other is another natural consequence of Enthusiasm - the Church Growth Movement.

Mequonites, Betha-knees, and Missiourians think they can tame the Calvinism of CGM, but they cannot even grasp what Calvinism is. They prove that every time they open their yaps.

They confuse inside-the-sem talking points with actual doctrinal studies. Their talking points always conclude, "And that is why we are the greatest, the best, and the purest. And we always have been, too."

They prove their belief in their own infallibility because, like Rome, they point to their man-made church body as the assurance of salvation. They do not trust the Gospel in the Means of Grace for a nano-second. When two different denominations have to use Satanic billboards and Satanic sex education to get people's attention, they have already surrendered to the basest form of marketing. What's next - a picture with an arm around Katy Perry or a Playmate?

Calvinism is Enthusiasm, and Pietism is re-warmed Calvinism.

The Church of Rome also teaches it is immaculate and indefectible. You will catch the irony if you read the first few paragraphs.

The Church of Rome never errs, thanks to the Holy Spirit, but the Scriptures are rather vague and difficult to follow.

Does that sound familiar? It is WELS doctrine. The Wisconsin Sect cannot err, but there are many g-r-e-y areas of Scripture (stretch out grey for the genu-wine WELS affect). Because the Scriptures are so grey, WELS pastors need to interpret them for the lowly laity. And, because the Scriptures are so grey, WELS can change doctrine as often as the Florida coast changes oil.

Not one WELS leader has admitted the doctrinal errors taught the last decades (not to mention UOJ). Ditto Missouri and the ELS.

Every so often, some Shrinker wakes up from the Night Before and posts a comment, asking, "And do you think you are perfect? Have you ever made a mistake?"

All I contribute is an effort to point people to the efficacious Word, the best theologians, and the Confessions.

The satire and polemics are extras I throw in for entertainment. Chemnitz has hilarious asides in Examination, but the Shrinkers would never know that.

I do not have to insist I am perfect, because I prefer the perfect, clear, effective Word to the bedlam of Enthusiastic rah-rah.

The laity express Christian doctrine far better than the MDivs and DMins, because the members do not have to remember contradictory talking points from seminary. When the laity have questions, their abusive clergy yell, "I am the expert. Do not question me!"

I do not know why Lutheran pastors are joining Rome. Lutherans are already more popish than the pope. Lutheran cover-ups of scandals have been far more effective than Rome's too. Why leave a winning team?

Luther Rocks

Joe Krohn (LutherRocks).

Extra Nos:

LutherRocks said...

Lito,

You make a great testimony regarding this that is hard to argue against.

Before I ran across Ichabod almost two years ago I never heard of UOJ. As I have studied this it doesn't serve scripture well by interchanging justification with atonement. And the more UOJ is defended, the more discombobulated it gets and I don't believe this is good for the body of Christ. (For example the WELS pastor Buchholz' paper) The Gospel is simple as Jesus meant it to be; so simple a child like faith is saving faith. Now if you understand when a proponent of UOJ speaks of UOJ he means the atonement I can live with that as long as that's what he means; although it is not prudent use of the English language. To me, and it always has been, Christ died for the sins of the world and makes it possible for salvation but this is only received through faith; hence cometh justification, righteousness and sanctification. I cringe when I read point #1 under Justification in 'This We Believe' in the WELS.

"1. We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends. It is a message relevant to people of all times and places, of all races and social levels, for "the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men" (Romans 5:18). All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18).

To me what is said contradicts scripture as the passage says at the end of the point...yes it is one act of righteousness and it is justification but it says it brings life; it makes it available; it does not justify before faith. It has become my opinion that the way WELS uses Romans 5 it is taking it out of context. In the very first verse of Romans 5 Paul says therefore since we have been justified by faith so it is already in context. He is talking to believers already. I think it would go far to throw out this term 'UOJ' and do some re-writes.

Now does all this UOJ contribute towards CGM? I don't know. I suppose that is fodder for another blog post. I do know that we constantly fight against our sinful flesh and the enthusiasm that we can partake in our own salvation and that of others. This is most certainly not true.

Peace,
Joe

8:17 AM

Pietism Rollbacks

I have noticed that the people escaping ELCA are looking for an older version of the same denomination, perhaps going back to the LCA of 1987 or the ALC version a little earlier.

Here is a hoot for everyone. Some come-outters want to send their future pastors to ELCA seminaries, even though they are leaving ELCA.

One of the earlier groups, during the Terror (1987 merger), voted on sending the candidates to Fuller Seminary!

The come-outters will have women's ordination, it seems, an ideal place for Herman Otten's sister, Marie Meyer to preach.

The American Lutheran church bodies all came from Pietism - Missouri, WELS, ELS, LCA, ALC, and earlier versions.

If they do not reject and repudiate Pietism, they will always go return to the Universalism and apostasy that Pietism breeds.

Rollback Pietism means the "No gay pastors" rule, at least "No out of the closet gays" quickly becomes Neo-Pietism. The Lavender Mafia Neo-Pietists condemn anyone who resists ordaining a man/woman after a sex change operation. The Neo-Pietists are just as sanctimonious as the Pietists - they just change the orientation of the Law.

The success of the Church Shrinkage Movement in WELS/Missouri/ELS has come from its affinity to Holy Mother Synod. The Pietists of the Syn Conference recognized themselves in the Pietistic law of Fuller and Willow Creek:
1. God wants His church to grow.
2. We must have cell groups to grow.
3. Anyone who questions this is a reprobate sinner, a lazy miserable cad who deserves to be kicked out.

Have the Syn Conference leaders had a problem with Fuller? No, not at all. They look down their noses at ELCA, for public consumption, but gallop over to joint projects, joint ministry, joint evangelism, and joint worship with ELCA. Pietism loves Pietists. ELCA is Pietism, Class of 2010. WELS is Pietism, Class of 1850.

What Must Be Repudiated?
To avoid the Slough of Pietism, Lutherans must denounce and repudiate Enthusiasm, its crafts and assaults, its temptations and pitfalls.

Enthusiasm separates the work of the Holy Spirit from the Word. The essence of Pietism is the cell group, the lay-led Bible study, prayer, care, koinonia, or affinity group. Lie down with Pietists, get up with Enthusiasm.

Why Does a Real Education Burn Up the WELS Shrinkers?

The University of Notre Dame

Yale University's Sterling Library

I was wondering why the Shrinkers rage against my education. I remembered several episodes, which are typical of WELS pastors. The laity should know that the seminary does have any academic requirements or final tests. In 1987 they did not issue grades, but apparently kept secret grades. The reason, they explained, was that anyone could graduate in the old days.

When people dared to question the feminist creed in the dreadful WELS hymnal, the defense was, "I am an expert in Greek, and this is what the Greek means." Since few laity have ever studied Greek, that was the equivalent of - "Do you dare arouse the wrath of the Great and Terrible Oz?"

Few WELS pastors are more than adequate in Greek, although it is commendable that they are expected to know more than the average seminary dolt in America. The actual reason for the feminist creeds in the WELS hymnal is the passion of James Tiefel for apostasy. The creeds were adopted from a unionistic, Left-wing commission full of non-Lutheran mainliners of questionable doctrine and sexual orientation. WELS did not have to - WELS wanted to, itched to, panted and slavered to adopt the feminist language. The pastors fell in line because they are expected to do so. They are afraid of sticking out, even if the WELS heresiarch Ted Hartwig was the guy who defended the feminist creeds to the hoi polloi.

Back to the subject - WELS expertise and other laughable claims. Some WELS pastors are genuine scholars in various topics. If you want to find them, get a piece of string and start out at the far end, as far as possible from the headquarters, where the liberals are densest. I hesitate to blacken any reputations by saying something good about a pastor and naming him. I know they are out there.

Most WELS pastors are not expected to know much beyond WELS canonical law, which includes their claim of superb education. I mentioned one episode, above, which I witnessed, my jaw slack in horror at the arrogance and stupidity of the pastor. Browbeating does not prove expertise.

One of the WELS Shrinkers recently yelled at a lawyer, "I have eight years of higher education in theology," or words to that effect. I do not have a videotape, and if I did, the Appleton Dumpling Gang Circuit would say it was Photoshopped.

A lawyer has a superior education, compared to a WELS pastor, because a lawyer is in school just as long and must pass the bar exam. Moreover, a lawyer worth his salt has studied argumentation and logic. The use of rhetoric is directly related to our Western heritage of democracy, literature, and law. One cannot separate those academic fields very easily because they go back to the golden age of Athens, about 2400 years ago.

Many WELS pastors list seminary as "graduate school" on their web biographies. Really? Try to teach at a university on an unaccredited MDiv (Mequon) or even with one from an accredited institution. When Sparky Brenner tried to earn a PhD at a state university, they were so impressed with his education that they made him take a remedial year first.

There are more reasons why WELS pastors go nuts over talk about a real theological education. The Shrinker leaders have DMins from a hodge-podge of Schwaermer schools: Larry Olson, Fuller!; Paul Calvin Kelm, Our Lady of Sorrows; Steve Witte, Gordon Conwell; John Parlow, Denver; Rich Krause, Ohio Consortium of Dying Liberal Theological Schools - mentor Larry Olson, DMin.

The DMins call themselves "Dr." and refer to their degrees as doctorates. A DMin consists of a few courses and a paper, so no one considers it a doctorate. The degree name was made up to earn money for seminaries in promoting continuing education. It was a successful marketing ploy.

I was fortunate to study under a number of world-famous theologians and Biblical scholars, in addition to studies at Ft. Wayne and Mequon. I also attended many theological events, where I heard such Protestant leaders as Billy Graham, Paul Y. Cho, D. James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, and Jack Hayford. The fact remains - I have a unique perspective on the American religious scene, one a bit broader and deeper than going to a WELS parochial school, enduring years of hazing, and graduating with a degree in Reformed theology from Mequon.

Most of my work at Notre Dame was in comparative dogmatics. I just checked - Church and Change still cannot spell comparative correctly. We studied the differences between the main Christian confessions, which led to Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant.

I have noticed that opposition from Shrinkers consists of anonymous snarkiness and unsupported accusations. That is why their arguments crumble so quickly. If they had to argue their case in court without evidence, a judge would gavel them into silence. No wonder they love to post and blog anonymousely.

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wildcard (http://wildcard.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Why Does a Real Education Burn Up the WELS Shrinke...":

Education threatens to expose them as fakes, phonies, and frauds.

Studying at Mequon.
The student who did this is a Changer in the ELS now.

Layman Endorses Time of Grace, But Maybe Not

John has left a new comment on your post "Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Mi...":


The CPH website says this: "Pastor Mark Jeske brings the Word of God to viewers through his outreach media ministry Time of Grace."

One cannot argue, at all with that statement.

Time of Grace is truly "his" ministry, as evidenced by the fact that he fails/refuses to inform viewers/listeners on how to learn more from their local WELS/ELS congregation/pastor. They are directed only to him and Time of Grace.

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John has left a new comment on your post "Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Mi...":

I'll stick with my TREASURY OF DAILY PRAYER, and PORTALS OF PRAYER for my personal/family devotions, thank you.