Saturday, October 9, 2010

Learn from Church and Change, Girls -
An Open Letter to the Mis-Named Intrepid Lutherans




WELS had Olson's female staff ministers consecrating Holy Communion without ordination,
unlike the Episcopalians, who actually ordained women first.
WELS/ELS declared a moratorium, not having the spine to deal with the issue.
These beach priestesses remind me of the ill-named Intrepids.


The Intrepids have revealed the true nature of WELS - a mind-control cult.

Like a Brownie troop that wandered onto the subway tracks because their leader was in the john, you decided to step on the Third Rail of the Syn Conference - UOJ. You experienced the immediate and lasting thrill of electrocution.

The Trepids also allowed comments from Brett Meyer and me. What were you thinking? The WELS franchise does not allow independent thinking from anyone.

One day Circuit Pastor Steve Spencer was urging on your blog - Fight! Fight! Fight!

The next day most of you were shouting - Run! Surrender! Throw down your weapons!

Learn from Church and Change, girls. I cannot say men, because you have acted like little girls wetting yourselves. One of the best and most discerning comments came from WELS Church Lady, who grasps the topic and explains herself well. Joe Krohn (earlier associated with the Church and Change list) also said more in a few words than the rest of you can obfuscate in thousands.

Church and Change has had the same agenda since 1977 or before. I realize they formed later than that, with your offering money skimmed from the plate, but they were the same leaders as now.

Church and Change has never backed down on anything. Have they ended any discussion as pusillanimously as you have? For them to imitate your sad spectacle, they would have had to conclude with "We now realize the Word alone is efficacious and that all our gimmicks are as useless as Deformed theology."

Church and Change does not even address matters beneath its royal standing in the cult. For example, when Paul Calvin Kelm was hosting the Leonard Sweet conference for WELS Church and Change, he would NOT back down or even answer critics from within Church and Change. The conference went on as usual. The debate went on for a long time, not for a mere 24 hours.

Likewise, Church and Change never abandons its own. They are the Navy SEALs of false doctrine. They arranged one call after another for Kelm, who is forever in trouble. When he was finally canned at The Guilt Factory, his buddies at Willowcreek's Little College invented a chaplain's position for the aging heretic.

"Fight, fight, fight"?

To quote Gibbon, "You fought without discipline and ran without shame."

I know you were threatened, from the SP on down. Boo hoo. Be sure to read the underlined passages in Deutschlander's Theology of the Cross. You trust Holy Mother Synod but do not trust God to care for you.

You formed to deal with the doctrinal problems of WELS/ELS? You are the problem.

Friday, October 8, 2010

Invisible J. P. Meyer Quotation


Know where your next meal is coming from,
and fight for position.



(J.P. Meyer) "When God reconciled the world to Himself through Christ, He individually pronounced forgiveness to each individual sinner whether that sinner ever comes to faith or not."

Since I assume you believe what you wrote in the above post, then I also assume that you you disagree with J.P. Meyer, Walther, Pieper, Sig Becker and all others who claim that ALL PEOPLE have been declared righteous.

Please confirm your belief by denying its opposite.
---Tom Wyeth

From Megatron, the Legendary Database:

"This applies to the whole world, to every individual sinner, whether he was living in the days of Christ, or had died centuries before His coming, or had not yet been born, perhaps has not been born to this day. It applies to the world as such, regardless of whether a particular sinner ever comes to faith or not." J. P. Meyer, Ministers of Christ, A Commentary on the Second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1963, p. 109. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21

Rydecki, an Intrepid Lutheran:
You arbitrarily define Objective Justification with the quote that supposedly came from J.P. Meyer. I say "supposedly," because Pastor Jon Buchholz was unable to find the exact source of that quote when he presented his 2005 paper at the WELS synod convention. Nevertheless he addressed it...

And so, yes, I join Pastor Buchholz in rejecting the statement you quoted as Scripturally inaccurate, and also as an inaccurate representation of Objective Justification. 


****

GJ
I found the quotation on Megatron in 5 seconds. WELS is doing a 1984 and making their own published falsehoods disappear down the memory hole.

Rydecki and Buchholz reject J. P. Meyer's statement on OJ as Scripturally inaccurate and as a false representation of OJ. And yet, a WELS pastor told me that J. P. Meyer is so beloved in WELS that no one dast criticize what he has written. Can anyone sort out this sludge? It is either too deep or too shallow for me.

The WELS Kokomo Statements are their official take on justification, backed a review committee headed by their NT professor Armin Panning, seconded by Sig Becker's published approval of the Statements. Three of the four Kokomo Statements are almost verbatim from J. P. Meyer's book - published by WELS NPH.

Do not be surprised. Rydecki started with an initial observation about the Flying Gospel sermon from The Guilt Factory, followed by an excellent quotation from Luther. Both statements revealed a dissent from the  UOJ bilge promoted by WELS. After 24 hours of pressure, Rydecki folded and began trumpeting the official position again, replying scornfully to those who agreed with him the day before.

WELS is not a sect but a cult - an abusive, mind-control cult, Scientology in Geneva gowns.

False Claims in Favor of UOJ




Appendix One: False Claims In Favor of UOJ



Halle University - Professor Knapp

From Knapp’s Lectures on Christian Theology, translated by Leonard Woods, Jr., New York, 1833. The LCMS was organized in 1847, the Stephan ships landing in 1839.

§ 113. UNIVERSALITY OF JUSTIFICATION. 817

It is universal as the atonement itself; vid. § 111, II. If the atonement extends to the whole human race, justification must also be universal; i. e. all must be able to obtain the actual forgiveness of their sins and blessedness, on account of the atonement of Christ. But in order to obviate mistakes, some points may require explanation. Justification, then, is universal,

(1) In respect to the persons to be pardoned.

All men, according to the Bible, may partake of this benefit. It was designed for all; vid. especially Rom. 3: 23. 5: 15 (§ 111),

318 ART. X. § 113. UNIVERSALITY OP JUSTIFICATION

in opposition to Jewish exclusiveness. It is bestowed however conditionally ; certain conditions are prescribed which are indispensable. Those who do not comply with these conditions, are excluded from the enjoyment of the benefit. Justification and forgiveness are not, therefore, universal in effect (actu); and this solely through the fault of men.*

Another conclusion from the universality of justification is, that every one may be sure of his forgiveness. This certainty, however, must not be founded upon inward feelings, which are frequently deceptive ; but upon an actual compliance with the conditions on which God will forgive sins. If any one finds in himself the signs of true faith, of sincere love to God and Christ, of a renewed heart, and of a virtuous Christian disposition, he is justified. Rom. 8: 16, " The holy, Christian temper wrought in us by God, gives us the clearest and surest proof, that we are the children of God." 1 John 3: 7. 2 Pet. 1: 9, 10. This certainty is in the highest degree necessary to our tranquility and happiness. 1 Tim. 1: 16. ICor. 6: 11. 1 John 5: 18—20.

(2) In respect to sins and the punishment of sin.

(a) As to sins; the position that all sins, without exception, are forgiven for Christ's sake, is proved partly from the power and efficacy of the atonement of Christ, which is extended to all sins (vid. § 111, and the texts there cited) ; and partly from the texts which promise forgiveness of all sins, even the greatest and blackest, to those who comply with the prescribed conditions of pardon. Ezek. 18: 21, 22. Ps. 103: 3. 1 Cor. 6: 11. Ephes. 2: 5. 1 Tim. I: 15. The sin against the Holy Ghost cannot be regarded as an exception ; vid. § 84.

(6) As to the punishment of sin ; the answer to the question whether the pardoned are exempt from all the punishments of sin, whether therefore justification is plena et perfecta, may be learned from § 111, II. The natural and physical evils which result from past sins, indeed, remain ; but they are mitigated and rendered more tolerable, and are divested of the terror of punishment….

* [Translator - This is very conveniently expressed by the terms objective and subjective justification. Objective justification is the act of God, by which he proffers pardon to all through Christ; subjective, is the act of man, by which he accepts the pardon freely offered in the Gospel. The former is universal, the latter not.]
End of Knapp quotation
Jackson –  This may be the first instance where the Atonement and justification were confused and intermingled. New terms often introduce concepts alien to the Word, such as creating a separate Holy Spirit baptism distinct from water baptism, elevating one while demeaning the other. Knapp’s book remains in print today, so the translator’s introduction of two justifications is significant for understanding the origin of this error. This particular selection, like so many discussions of two justifications, is lacking any emphasis upon the efficacy of the Word in the Means of Grace. To discuss forgiveness without the efficacy of the Word is a grave error that cannot be fixed with the elegant use of Latin terminology.

Eduard Preuss, Missouri Pastor Who Became Roman Catholic

"So, then, we are reconciled; however, not only we, but also Hindus, and Hottentots and Kafirs, yes, the world. 'Reconciled', says our translation; the Greek original says: 'placed in the right relation to God'. Because before the Fall we, together with the whole creation, were in the right relation to God, therefore Scripture teaches that Christ, through His death, restored all things to the former right relation to God."
  1. R. Eduard Preuss, 1834-1904, Die Rechtfertigung der Suender vor Gott. Cited in Rick Nicholas Curia, The Significant History of the Doctrine of Objective or Universal Justification, Alpine, California: California Pastoral Conference, WELS. January 24-25, 1983. p. 24.
Jackson – Luther and the Concordists always kept the Gospel message in harmony with the Scriptures, emphasizing both the universal Atonement of Christ and the necessity of faith in receiving God’s declaration of forgiveness. Preuss has been quoted many times to support the forgiveness of the world, without the Word, which is the fundamental error of the Brief Statement, 1932.

Cherney, WELS

“Not guilty—period. God’s court doesn’t work that way either. God, our judge, has pronounced his verdict over us: Not guilty—period. We’ve been declared innocent of the crime of sin, free from the penalty of eternal death, all because Jesus took our place under God’s justice and paid every penalty we ever owed. And to demonstrate his verdict just as dramatically and convincingly as possible, God raised Jesus from the dead. “He was raised to life for our justification,” (Romans 4:25). That means Jesus rose to prove we are justified. Acquitted. Not guilty.”
            Pastor Ken Cherney (WELS), “The Surprising Verdict,” Northwestern Lutheran, August, 1998.
Jackson – Exegesis this poor should get someone removed from the ministry, but that is not true when UOJ is being defended. This claim is exactly the same as Universalism – everyone in the entire world is forgiven. Romans 4 teaches faith and Abraham as the father of faith. This article teaches forgiveness without faith.

Sig Becker, WELS

"The two terms are relatively modern. They are not used in the Lutheran Confessions. They are also not really synonymous. 'Universal justification' is a term denoting the doctrine that God has forgiven the sins of all men. Strictly speaking, the term objective justification expresses the thought that the sins of a man are forgiven by God whether he believes it or not. Objective justification is not necessarily universal, but if justification is universal it must of necessity be objective."
Siegbert Becker, "Objective Justification," Chicago Pastoral Conference, WELS, Elgin, Illinois, November 9, 1982, unpaginated.
Jackson – The terms are definitely modern, the first instance in English is dated in the 1830s (Woods translation of Knapp), where objective was contrasted with subjective justification. Universal seems to be even more recent, used in the last few decades and added to objective.

Hoenecke Citing Burk

And Ph. D. Burk (Rechtfertigung und Versicherung, p. 41) rightly said:
‘The difference between general justification and the more common usage of the term justification can be expressed as follows. The latter takes place precisely upon the appropriation of the former.’ (Cited in Hoenecke)

"For God has already forgiven you your sins 1800 years ago when He in Christ absolved all men by raising Him after He first had gone into bitter death for them. Only one thing remains on your part so that you also possess the gift. This one thing is—faith. And this brings me to the second part of today's Easter message, in which I now would show you that every man who wants to be saved must accept by faith the general absolution, pronounced 1800 years ago, as an absolution spoken individually to him."
C. F. W. Walther, The Word of His Grace, Sermon Selections, "Christ's Resurrection—The World's Absolution" Lake Mills: Graphic Publishing Company, 1978, p. 233. Mark 16:1-8.

F. Pieper

"Now, then, if the Father raised Christ from the dead, He, by this glorious resurrection act, declared that the sins of the whole world are fully expiated, or atoned for, and that all mankind is now regarded as righteous before His divine tribunal. This gracious reconciliation and justification is clearly taught in Romans 4:25: 'Who was delivered for our offenses and was raised again for our justification.' The term dikai,wsij (dikaiosis) here means the act of divine justification executed through God's act of raising Christ from the dead, and it is for this reason called the objective justification of all mankind. This truth Dr. Walther stressed anew in America. He taught that the resurrection of Christ from the dead is the actual absolution pronounced upon all sinners. (Evangelienpostille, p. 160ff.)…Calov, following Gerhard, rightly points out the relation of Christ's resurrection to our justification as follows: 'Christ's resurrection took place as an actual absolution from sin (respectu actualis a peccato absolutionis). As God punished our sins in Christ, upon whom He laid them and to whom He imputed them, as our Bondsman, so He also, by the very act of raising Him from the dead, absolved Him from our sins imputed to Him, and so He absolved also us in Him.'" [Bibl. Illust., ad Rom. 4:25]
Francis Pieper, Christian Dogmatics, 3 vols., St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1951, II, p. 321. Romans 4:25.

"Scripture teaches the objective reconciliation. Nineteen hundred years ago Christ effected the reconciliation of all men with God. God does not wait for men to reconcile Him with themselves by means of any efforts of their own. He is already reconciled. The reconciliation is an accomplished fact, just like the creation of the world. Romans 5:10: 'We were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.' When Christ died, God became reconciled. As Christ's death lies in the past, so also our reconciliation is an accomplished fact. 2 Corinthians 5:19: 'God was in Christ, reconciling' (namely, when Christ lived and died on earth) 'the world unto Himself.' The katalla,ssein (katallassein) of Romans 5:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:19 does not refer—let this fact be noted—to any change that occurs in men, but describes an occurrence in the heart of God. It was God who laid His anger by on account of the ransom brought by Christ. It was God who at that time already had in His heart forgiven the sins of the whole world, for the statement: 'God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself' means—and that is not our, but the Apostle's own interpretation—that God did 'not impute their trespasses unto them.' And 'not imputing trespasses' is, according to Scripture (Romans 4:6-8), synonymous with 'forgiving sins,' 'justifying' the sinner. "The resurrection of Christ is, as Holy Writ teaches, the actual absolution of the whole world of sinners. Romans 4:25: 'Who was raised again for our justification.' At that time we were objectively declared free from sin."
Francis Pieper, Christian Dogmatics, 3 vols., St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1951, II, p. p 348. Romans 5:10; 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Stoeckhardt

"This doctrine of general justification is the guarantee and warranty that the central article of justification by faith is being kept pure. Whoever holds firmly that God was reconciled to the world in Christ, and that to sinners in general their sin was forgiven, to him the justification which comes from faith remains a pure act of the grace of God. Whoever denies general justification is justly under suspicion that he is mixing his own work and merit into the grace of God.”
George Stoeckhardt, Concordia Theological Quarterly, April, 1978, p. 138. Cited by Pastor Vernon Harley "Synergism—Its Logical Association with General Justification," 511 Tilden, Fairmont, Minnesota 56031, August, 1984, p. 1.

Engelder, 1933

"The chief purpose, however, is to keep this article (general justification) before the people for its own sake. It cannot be presented and studied too often. Its vital relation to the subjective, personal justification by faith, cannot be stressed too strongly. It forms the basis of the justification by faith and keeps this article free from the leaven of Pelagianism. Unless the sinner knows that his justification is already an accomplished fact in the forum of God, he will imagine that it is his faith, his good conduct, which moves God to forgive him his sins. And unless he knows that God had him personally in mind in issuing the general pardon on Easter morning, he will have no assurance of his justification."
Theodore Engelder, Concordia Theological Monthly, July/August/September, 1933. Reissued by the seminary print-shop, Ft. Wayne, 1981. Cited by Pastor Vernon Harley, "Synergism—Its Logical Association with General Justification," 511 Tilden, Fairmont, Minnesota 56031, August, 1984, p. 1f.

"The entire Pauline doctrine of justification stands and falls with the special article of general justification. This establishes it beyond peradventure that justification is entirely independent of the conduct of man. And only in this way the individual can have the assurance of his justification. For it is the incontrovertible conclusion: Since God has already justified all men in Christ and forgiven them their sins, I, too, have a gracious God in Christ and forgiveness of all my sins."
Quoted with approval by Theodore Engelder, from George Stoeckhardt, Commentary on Romans, p. 264. Cited by Pastor Vernon Harley, "Synergism—Its Logical Association with General Justification," 511 Tilden, Fairmont, Minnesota 56031, August, 1984, p. 2.

Theodore Mueller, 1982

"The resurrection is God's public absolution of the entire world: 'Your sins are forgiven, all sins of all human beings; and there is no exception.' This is the meaning of the technical term 'objective justification.' The objective justification is central to the doctrine of salvation and derives logically from the facts that God's reconciliation, forgiveness, and declaration of 'not guilty' in no wise depend on the attitude or behaviour of human beings. If objective justification is denied, then it must follow that those who are declared righteous in some way have contributed to God's change of heart; justification is then no longer solely the result of God's grace."
Theodore Mueller, Concordia Theological Quarterly, January, 1982, p. 29. Cited by Pastor Vernon Harley, "Synergism—Its Logical Association with General Justification," 511 Tilden, Fairmont, Minnesota 56031, August, 1984, p. 3.

Theodore Brohm, 19th Century

"The fact of the redemption and reconciliation of the entire human race through Christ, and with it the forgiveness of all sins for all men on God's part—which, indeed, is precisely what the Gospel proclaims, presents and gives—can by no means become a lie through the unbelief of men...even when the unbelievers don't receive it, but reject it for themselves and for this reason—indeed, for this reason alone—are lost."
Walther's colleague, Theodore Brohm, 1808-1881. Cited in Rick Nicholas Curia, The Significant History of the Doctrine of Objective or Universal Justification, Alpine, California: California Pastoral Conference, WELS. January 24-25, 1983. p. 16.

Norwegian Synod, 19th Century

"The teaching of the Wisconsin Synod [of the old Norwegian Synod] is this, that in and with the universal reconciliation, which has occurred in Christ for the whole world—even Judas; the whole world—even Judas—has been justified and has received the forgiveness of sin. Therefore, according to Luther's clear words ("for where there is forgiveness of sins, there is also life and salvation"), the whole world (i.e. every person who is a part of the world—even Judas) has become a child of God and an heir of heaven."
Gottfried Fritschel, "Zur Lehre von der Rechtfertigung," Theologische Monatshefte, volume 4, 1871, (1-24), p. 7. Cited in Rick Nicholas Curia, The Significant History of the Doctrine of Objective or Universal Justification, Alpine, California: California Pastoral Conference, WELS. January 24-25, 1983. p. 2.

Missouri Synod Brief Statement, 1932

“Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Romans 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:18-21; Romans 4:25; that therefore not for the sake of their good works, but without the works of the Law, by grace, for Christ’s sake, he justifies, that is, accounts as righteous, all those who believe in Christ, that is, believe, accept, and rely on, the fact that for Christ’s sake their sins are forgiven.”
            Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod, 1932, “Of Justification.”

J. P. Meyer, 1963

“About 300 years earlier Johann Gerhard expressed the same truth in these words: ‘By raising Christ from the dead God absolved Him from our sins, which had been imputed to Him, and accordingly He absolved us also in Him.’ Gerhard was professor of theology in Jena. He did not write a Brief Statement, but he did write a book on Lutheran dogmatics consisting of 20 volumes. He died in 1637.”
            J. P. Meyer, “The Holy Spirit Creator,” The Northwestern Lutheran, September 24, 1950, p. 310.
Jackson – When this was published, people did not have access to Gerhard in English. This statement is a serious distortion of Gerhard, who agreed with the Concordists and published with Chemnitz.

First Kokomo Statement

I. "Objectively speaking, without any reference to an individual sinner's attitude toward Christ's sacrifice, purely on the basis of God's verdict, every sinner, whether he knows about it or not, whether he believes it or not, has received the status of a saint. What will be his reaction when he is informed about this turn of events? Will he accept, or will he decline?"
J. P. Meyer, Ministers of Christ, A Commentary on the Second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1963, p. 103f. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.
 Jackson – This is utter rubbish. In the New Testament, only believers are forgiven and given the status of saints.

Second Kokomo Statement

II. "Before Christ's intervention took place God regarded him as a guilt-laden, condemned culprit. After Christ's intervention and through Christ's intervention He regards him as a guilt-free saint."
J. P. Meyer, Ministers of Christ, A Commentary on the Second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1963, p. 107. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.
Jackson – This is Enthusiasm, because the distribution through the Holy Spirit in the Means of Grace is omitted. Teaching this laid the groundwork for Fuller Enthusiasm and worse.

Third Kokomo Statement

III. "This applies to the whole world, to every individual sinner, whether he was living in the days of Christ, or had died centuries before His coming, or had not yet been born, perhaps has not been born to this day. It applies to the world as such, regardless of whether a particular sinner ever comes to faith or not."
J. P. Meyer, Ministers of Christ, A Commentary on the Second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1963, p. 109. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.
Jackson – Meyer ignored Abraham, the father of faith, who believed “and it was reckoned as righteousness.”

Decision Theology

"Objectively speaking, without any reference to an individual sinner's attitude toward Christ's sacrifice, purely on the basis of God's verdict, every sinner, whether he knows about it or not, whether he believes it or not, has received the status of a saint. What will be his reaction when he is informed about this turn of events? Will he accept, or will he decline?"
J. P. Meyer, Ministers of Christ, A Commentary on the Second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 1963, p. 103f. 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.                                                     
Jackson – The fatal attraction of WELS to various liberal Baptists is explained by this endorsement of Decision Theology.

WELS Conference of Presidents, 1954

“The Judge in heaven examines this evidence. He declares His verdict. It is one of acquittal. Man’s debt of sin is no longer charged against him. Sinful man is free!”
            WELS Conference of Presidents, “Every Sinner Declared Righteous,” 1954 tract.
Jackson – This is another example of the Atonement confused with justification by faith, showing what happens when the Means of Grace are ignored and the efficacious Word is not trusted.

Excommunicated For Denying Kokomo UOJ Statements, 1979

“Faith Lutheran Church
3215 West Judson Road
Kokomo, Indiana 46901
August 30, 1979
Mr. and Mrs. David Hartman
R. R. #1, Box 90
Kokomo, Indiana 46901
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Hartman,
In response to your letter of August 18, 1979, it is our understanding that your ‘no’ vote on June 20th against supporting the biblical doctrine of the WELS was based at least in part, on your failure to accept the following statement – included in your letter – all of which are in agreement with the teachings of the WELS, namely that:
  1. ‘Objectively speaking, without any reference to an individual sinners’ [sic] attitude toward Christs’ [sic] sacrafice [sic], purely on the basis of God’s verdict, every sinner, whether he knows it or not, whether he believes it or not, has received the status of a saint.’
  2. ‘After Christs’ [sic] intervention and through Christs’ [sic] intervention, God regards all sinners as guilt-free saints.’
  3. ‘When God reconciled the world to Himself through Christ, He individually pronounced forgiveness to each individual sinner whether that sinner ever comes to faith or not.’
  4. ‘At the time of the resurrection of Christ God looked down in hell and declared Judas, the people destroyed in the flood, and all the ungodly, innocent, not guilty, and forgiven of all sin and gave unto them the status of saints.’
I trust this is the information you desire.
Jackson – WELS describes the Kokomo Statements as a caricature of justification written by the families involved. The first three were taken from J. P. Meyer’s Ministers of Christ. The fourth was from an earlier debate in Lutheranism. They did write them down, because their pastor was teaching that “caricature of justification.” Therefore, they were kicked out by WELS for disagreeing with these statements and blamed by WELS for writing down what WELS still teaches.

LCMS Theses on UOJ, 1983

"Thus objective justification or reconciliation is the forgiveness of sins both as it has been acquired for the entire human race by Christ's work of obedience in its stead and declared by His resurrection, and as it is seriously and efficaciously offered to all in the means of grace."
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, II. #5.
Jackson – Why did only a few LCMS pastors object to this nincompoopery? Like Kokomo, this is another step beyond the initial error of UOJ because it explicitly claims that forgiveness is acquired and declared for the human race – but on what grounds? A large number of people enjoy the Means of Grace, but not everyone does. This sentence is Universalism hidden under the guise of the Means of Grace.
"Subjective justification or reconciliation is this same forgiveness as it is received, appropriated by, and applied to the individual sinner through God-given faith alone (sola fide)."
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, II. #6.
Jackson – This is a second forgiveness, since the first forgiveness is universal, according to #5.
Jackson - The CTCR devoted section III to “The Nature of Justification (What Happens When the Sinner is Justified).” Theses 7 and 8 both speak of justification without mentioning faith. This error is compounded by another grand statement:
“It is contrary to Scripture and the pure Gospel to teach: That, although Christ by His work has earned forgiveness for all, there are still certain conditions which God demands of people before He will pronounce them righteous.”
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, III. #8.
Confessional statements should be precise and clear, but this formula introduces the Monster of Uncertainty. Is faith now a demand? What an odd term for faith. Or do they mean something else? Any Lutheran graduate of Theology 101 knows that the efficacious Gospel produces faith, that faith receives the Gospel promise of forgiveness.
Section III announces that forgiveness has been earned for all, that all sins are forgiven. This is followed by Section IV, “Man’s Need for Justification,” a Law section. Why would this noteworthy commission declare the Gospel first and then the Law? The method is common to Moravian Pietism and denounced by Luther. However, since justification itself has been confused already, the meaning of the Law section is especially troubling. Section IV by itself is adequately written. The runt of the litter seems pretty healthy when the rest are still-born.
Section V, “The Basis of Justification,” is another misbegotten effort. One can hardly imagine that Lutheran theologians with access to the Book of Concord, Luther, and Chemnitz, could write so poorly about justification. Once again, “It is contrary to Scripture and the pure Gospel…” Why is that peculiar formulation used? Is the pure Gospel something other than what God reveals to us in the Scripture? I suspect that the men involved followed Karl Barth’s distinction between the Scriptures and the Word.
The lupine teeth and claws come out from under the fleece in Section VI. “The Universal and Finished Results of Christ’s Work of Obedience.” Note well:
  1. “Christ is the Savior of all. This means that the whole world of sinners has been redeemed, forgiven, and reconciled to God in Him.”
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, VI. #19.
Jackson – This is Universalism.
  1. “God, by raising His Son from the dead, has justified Him, declared Him to be the Righteous One, and in Him (i.e., for the sake of His finished work of obedience and satisfaction) has declared (as proclaimed in the Gospel), or reckoned, the whole world to be righteous.”
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, VI. #22.
Jackson – This is perverted Universalism, because the language of justification by faith (reckoned or counted righteous) is employed to make justification by faith meaningless.
  1. “God has acquired the forgiveness of sins for all people by declaring that the world for Christ’s sake has been forgiven. The acquiring of forgiveness is the pronouncement of forgiveness.”
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, VI. #23.
After establishing a vague Universalism, the CTCR devotes the next section to “Justification by Faith,” although the main heading is “The Appropriation of Christ’s Righteousness.” The rest of the document does not merit additional comment, because the entire structure is wrong from the beginning, even if isolated statements are correct by themselves. The “Theses on Justification” are a leaning tower of logs, like the one that collapsed at Texas A and M University, built badly on a soft foundation. One statement alone condemns the entire work, which contains many other errors, confusions, and fraudulent statements:
“It is contrary to Scripture and the pure Gospel to teach:…That it is not Biblical to speak of ‘objective justification.’
Commission on Theology and Church Relations "Theses on Justification" St. Louis: May, 1983, VI. #23.
Jackson – This is pure popery, denouncing anyone who adheres to the Book of Concord and Luther as being “contrary to Scripture and the pure Gospel.”





More Evidence of WELS Hypocrisy and Apostasy - India To Get Staph Infection from Larry Oh!



How many letters have been sent to shut down Church and Change?
None.


"Professor Lawrence Olson has recently received a call to become Missionary Councilor to India." 

That's certainly one way to get rid of a man! 

Staff Ministry students were quietly chanting "Take...the...call!" in the hallways.

***

GJ - Olson's Fuller DMin, his qualification for teaching at Mary Lou College would not get him a job at any other college - except the Copy Center. Serving as the C. Peter Wagner Professor of Church Growth was preceded by years of no growth in Love's Park, where another WELS mission drained members from local congregations.

What has India done to deserve Olson? Do they not already have a zillion Fuller grads supervising missions in their sub-continent? Perhaps he will just stay at The Guilt Factory (formerly The Love Shack) and make them feel guilty for not growing. Or he may be in-continent. Either way, India's loss is MLC's gain.

The Insipid Lutherans Shut Themselves Down



NWC/DMLC prom.


bored has left a new comment on your post "Insipid, Tepid Lutherans - Sliding Downhill":

Rydecki wrote:

"We've had some good discussion on this topic, but it's time to close this thread for awhile, lest we get sidetracked from what justification is all about: Christ."

Silly man! How could a conversation about Justification be separate from Christ? Typical of WELS clergy, Rydecki pulled the plug on a discussion just at the moment when readers started practicing discernment.

I hope those who read Intrepid Lutherans who actually want to be intrepid will use this discernment-killing move by Rydecki to recognize that the WELS, much like liberal progressive politicians, MUST control information and massage data to have any success. These company men, whether UOJ storm trooper or no, will not submit to an open exchange of ideas. The Company is always right, and if that means we have to experience spiritual brain-death so Be it, seems to be the ingrained attitude.

Intrepid readers: if you feel it is worth your time to read "Intrepid" keep bringing up UOJ! Heap on burning coals of honesty and courtesy. Heap on coals of discernment. It very well may be that Rydecki and the other administrators of "Intrepid" have had their jobs threatened by the powers-that-be. Give him a reason to question himself, and the merits of their relationship to the mother WELS.

You know, some tumors are inoperable. If a tumor gets too big, its removal will cause such a massive blood loss that the patient will die. This principle is true with synods. The WELS meningioma might very be too invasively placed or too large to remove while keeping the synod in one piece.

Luckily, this is not so with the Invisible Church. 

***

GJ - My intuition is - the post was dictated by one of the WELS Stormtroopers. Rydecki.1 was Lutheran, 24 hours ago. Rydecki.2 was a complete Enthusiast, especially in his final comment about a justification discussion taking away from Christ.

Insipid, Tepid Lutherans - Sliding Downhill



The downhill slide continues.


I have de-linked the alleged Intrepid Lutherans - permanently.

Rydecki posted one of those typical emulsifying WELS/ELS waffles where two are one, one are two, and UOJ emerges as a fat maggot feeding on more doctrinal garbage.

They caught all kinds of hell for daring to deal with a doctrinal issue.

They are safely in fold pack again.

I copied verbatim some good statements against UOJ yesterday, lest someone erase them to show their repentance and remorse.

I was asked not to copy them again onto Ichabod, because someone might accuse them of something heinous.

Not to worry.


Yes, WELS Will Try To Silence the Intrepid Lutherans Website


The lifespan of an independent WELS website is rather short. Issues in WELS stopped and removed all the files.

Bailing Water went through three editors, I think, and got cut off from information.

Even poor Fake-O-Bod has stopped publishing several times, erasing his nasty files and disgusting photoshops. Now that everyone knows he is Tim Glende, the thrill of posting scatological pictures and exposing his doctrinal ignorance is gone. Maybe Uncle Brug said to him, "I cannot believe we let you graduate from Mequon."

I knew it was a WELS reader, writing, when I got this comment - "Do you have proof they are trying to shut down the Intrepds" A typical WELS response is:
1. Question whether there is proof.
2. Change the subject when proof is offered.

The Wisconsin sect thinks unity is achieved by lying and suppression of the truth. Why tell the truth about false teachers, murderers, and church leaders lodged in the Big House? The members like being ignorant, so leave them alone.

Or, look at it this way. Ex-SP Gurgle was claiming that Church and Change was closed down while Church and Change was registering people for their next conference from the WELS.net website.

Church and Change leaders have been setting the agenda since 1977. They run the colleges, seminary, and FICKLE. They have elected DPs like Englebrecht and re-elected them.

The Gang of Four (State of Wisconsin DPs plus the one representing the People's Republic of Minnesota) can be counted upon to block anything hinting of Lutheran doctrine.

Can anyone imagine the roaring that went on when the Intrepids opened up the topic of UOJ?

The Doctrinal Pussycats are spineless when dealing with false doctrine, but they suit and grab their weapons when that false doctrine is threatened.

UOJ turns people into Antinomians - good is bad, bad is good, deception rules.

Thursday, October 7, 2010

Manthey Denies There Are Two Justifications in WELS - Intrepid Lutherans





Intrepid Lutherans
Daniel Baker said...
The first point of "This We Believe" leaves room for contention with regard to its blanket "declaration of righteousness." As Mr. Lindee suggests, I believe this is a prime example of "sloppiness" in terminology. Would it REALLY be that hard to simply state that Christ's merits are credited as righteousness to those in whom the Holy Spirit has created faith by means of the gospel? That would be a perfectly biblical and confessional alternative to the questionable statement we have here. The way in which we pull verse 18 out of chapter 5 amidst a plethora of other verses that state faith is credited as righteousness is startling. It seems highly reminiscent of certain other religious factions who like to pull select verses out of Romans 9 to promote what we find "blasphemous" per point 10 above. We are righteous in God's sight because when He looks at us, he sees Jesus (at least that's what I was taught in my 14 years of WELS education). If He has declared unbelievers righteous, why would they be going to hell? Christ bore the sins of all on Calvary, yes, but his merits are not applied unless the Holy Spirit has created faith - hence crediting righteousness. Am I wrong in my above assessment? I admit that this whole topic is mind boggling to me, and I have not thoroughly studied all the content that pertains to it. If I err in some way, please reproach me.
LutherRocks said...
Oh praise the Lord...and I mean that in the most Lutheran of tone!!! This is good...this is STELLAR!!! Now we are getting to the heart of the matter...to the meat! 2929 N. Mayfair Rd. are you listening? Mequon...are you getting this? It is my opinion that a lot of this goes back to the residual effects of the LCMS (A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod [Adopted 1932]) and undoubtedly much further.(There are glaring problems in Kretzmann circa 1921.) This passage puts it all in perspective and context: Genesis 15:6 (King James Version) And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness. In the spirit of the Reformation! Joe Krohn
Brett Meyer said...
I agree with the statements of Daniel Baker and Joe Krohn. I do, however, believe that when the official confession of the (W)ELS states, "1. We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ." it is not a matter of sloppy writing or confession. It is a precise confession with words carefully chosen to convey a specific declaration, that all people, believers and unbelievers, have been declared by God to be righteous. My reason for believing this is that it is in perfect harmony with other WELS confessions concerning the central doctrine of the (W)ELS. I provide quotes to support this and also quotes from the Norm, the normed norm and Martin Luther that reject this confession as it is opposed to God's pure Word. WELS President of MLC, Mark Zarling, "Perhaps such a distinction is helpful if it assists us in understanding the glorious Gospel: In Jesus, God has declared the entire world righteous and forgiven, irregardless of whether or not the world believes it. Such is the jewel described by objective, universal, or general justification." Page 2 http://www.wlsessays.net/files/ZarlingJustification.pdf WELS CA/AZ District President, Pastor Jon Buchholz 2005 Convention Essay "God has declared the entire world righteous." This statement is true, as we understand it to mean that God has rendered a verdict of "not-guilty" toward the entire world. It is also true—and must be taught—that the righteousness of Christ now stands in place of the world’s sin; this is the whole point of what Jesus did for us at Calvary." Page 17 http://www.wlsessays.net/node/390 WELS Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Prof. Forrest L. Bivens "To phrase it somewhat differently, God has justified, acquitted or declared righteous the whole world of sinners. He has forgiven them. They have been reconciled to God. Their status in his eyes has been changed from that of sinner to forgiven sinner for the sake of Jesus Christ. Since all this applies to all people, the term universal or general justification is used. In our circles an alternate term, objective justification, is also used. If justification is universal, it must also be objective; sinners have been forgiven whether they believe it or not." http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BivensMessage.pdf SCRIPTURE, THE CONFESSIONS AND LUTHER: Romans 4:5, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Cont...
Brett Meyer said...
Cont... Apology of the Augsburg Confession, That We Obtain Remission of Sins by Faith Alone in Christ. "But the remission of sins is received by faith alone, and, indeed, by faith properly so called, because the promise cannot be received except by faith. But faith, properly so called, is that which assents to the promise [is when my heart, and the Holy Ghost in the heart, says: The promise of God is true and certain]. Of this faith Scripture speaks. And because it receives the remission of sins, and reconciles us to God, by this faith we are [like Abraham] accounted righteous for Christ's sake before we love and do the works of the Law, although love necessarily follows. Nor, indeed, is this faith an idle knowledge, neither can it coexist with mortal sin, but it is a work of the Holy Ghost, whereby we are freed from death, and terrified minds are encouraged and quickened. And because this faith alone receives the remission of sins, and renders us acceptable to God, and brings the Holy Ghost, it could be more correctly called _gratia gratum faciens_, grace rendering one pleasing to God, than an effect following, namely, love." "But since we receive remission of sins and the Holy Ghost by faith alone, faith alone justifies, because those reconciled are accounted righteous and children of God, not on account of their own purity, but through mercy for Christ's sake, provided only they by faith apprehend this mercy. Accordingly, Scripture testifies that by faith we are accounted righteous, Rom. 3, 26. We, therefore, will add testimonies which clearly declare that faith is that very righteousness by which we are accounted righteous before God, namely, not because it is a work that is in itself worthy, but because it receives the promise by which God has promised that for Christ's sake He wishes to be propitious to those believing in Him," http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php The Defense of the Augsburg Confession What Is Justifying Faith? 48] "The adversaries feign that faith is only a knowledge of the history, and therefore teach that it can coexist with mortal sin. Hence they say nothing concerning faith, by which Paul so frequently says that men are justified, because those who are accounted righteous before God do not live in mortal sin." http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php Luther's Commentary on Galations "Paul's words contain the implication of contrast. When he quotes Scripture to the effect that all nations that share the faith of faithful Abraham are to be blessed, Paul means to imply the contrast that all nations are accursed without faith in Christ. VERSE 10. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse. The curse of God is like a flood that swallows everything that is not of faith. To avoid the curse we must hold on to the promise of the blessing in Christ." "Paul goes on to prove from this quotation out of the Book of Deuteronomy that all men who are under the Law are under the sentence of sin, of the wrath of God, and of everlasting death." "I cannot tell you in words how criminal it is to seek righteousness before God without faith in Christ, by the works of the Law. It is the abomination standing in the holy place. It deposes the Creator and deifies the creature." http://www.bibleteacher.org/luthercom_3.htm In Christ, Brett Meyer
Brett Meyer said...
Not to jump ahead, only to clarify for the moment, the issue taken with "God has declared all sinners righteous" is not the only confession in the (W)ELS This We Believe under Justification By Grace Through Faith that is contrary to Scripture and the Confessions and should be discussed at some point. In my opinion the the following quotes are also at issue and are inseparable from the confession that "all sinners are declared righteous". (1.)All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (7.)We reject all efforts to present faith as a condition people must fulfill to complete their justification. (BM - this needs to be clarified in order to be addressed appropriately. ie: Does it intend to state, we reject declarations that faith must be present to be justified by God, as the WELS has taught and is currently teaching)
Gregory L. Jackson said...
The Holy Spirit only works through the Word (Isaiah 55) and never apart from the Word. Calvin and others taught that the Holy Spirit did God's work without the Word. Grace comes to man only through God's appointed Instruments of Grace, the invisible Word of preaching teaching, the visible Word of the sacraments. To claim otherwise is pure Enthusiasm, which is utterly condemned by the Book of Concord. As Paul clearly teaches in Romans 10, preaching the Gospel moves people to faith, who are declared righteous by God, receiving forgiveness of sin and the promise of eternal life. Therefore, there cannot be two justifications, one without the Means of Grace and without effect - the other where faith as God's own creation is diminished and ridiculed. Only one justification is taught in the Bible and the Book of Concord. The heresy of grace without the Means of Grace came from Calvinism via the Pietism of Halle University. Halle quickly turned from Pietism to rationalism, eventually absorbing Wittenberg University, which no longer exists. That should serve as a warning to all those who excuse, promote, or ignored UOJ. Forgiveness without faith is a cancer. Galatians 1:8.
Anonymous said...
I need to read everything more in depth still. Christ died once and for all, isn't that correct. Scripture says, "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation" --2 Corinthians 5:19 In some sense, I would think that Christ death justifies the world. Faith is entirely the work of God. Christ's atonement is not limited. If it were so, we would be suscribing to the Calvinist doctrine of limited atonement. Not only did he die for the sins of the Christian, but the sins of the whole world. So, in some sense, I believe he has justified the whole world. Yet, we are saved by grace through faith. I, however, am unsure how Scripture can both say that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, and yet only some are to be chosen to go to heaven. This is my question. Levi Powers
Rev. Paul A. Rydecki said...
Levi, I'm trying to let the discussion continue without chiming in at every comment or at every assertion. But there are some questions I don't want to leave hanging in midair. You're absolutely right that Christ has died to pay for the sins of the world. The atonement he made on the cross is NOT limited to those who believe, or who will believe. There can be no question about this. In the same way, the paradox remains in the doctrine of election, and Lutherans have no problems with the paradox: God elected some to salvation, but he elected no one to condemnation. If someone believes and is saved, it is 100% the work of God. If someone disbelieves and is condemned, it is 100% the fault of man. Perhaps the words of Luther Against the Heavenly Prophets will shed some light on the discussion, "We treat of the forgiveness of sins in two ways. First, how it is achieved and won. Second, how it is distributed and given to us. Christ has achieved it on the cross, it is true. But he has not distributed or given it on the cross. He has not won it in the supper or sacrament. There he has distributed and given it through the Word, as also in the gospel, where it is preached. He has won it once for all on the cross. But the distribution takes place continuously, before and after, from the beginning to the end of the world. For inasmuch as he had determined once to achieve it, it made no difference to him whether he distributed it before or after, through his Word, as can easily be proved from Scripture. But now there is neither need nor time to do so. "If now I seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the cross, for I will not find it given there. Nor must I hold to the suffering of Christ, as Dr. Karlstadt trifles, in knowledge or remembrance, for I will not find it there either. But I will find in the sacrament or gospel the word which distributes, presents, offers, and gives to me that forgiveness which was won on the cross. Therefore, Luther has rightly taught that whoever has a bad conscience from his sins should go to the sacrament and obtain comfort, not because of the bread and wine, not because of the body and blood of Christ, but because of the word which in the sacrament offers, presents, and gives the body and blood of Christ, given and shed for me." (Luther's Works: Vol. 40, p.213).
Brett Meyer said...
In This We Believe posted above the WELS confession concerning Justification Romans 5:18 is used to contend that God declared the whole unbelieving world Justified by Christ whether they believe it or not. "All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18)." KJV - "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." It's important to point out that if this verse is to be used as proof of universal Justification then to remain consistent it also is proof of universal salvation because the Justification that came upon all men is that Justification which brings eternal life. ie: "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." "unto justification of life." KJV The exegesis that UOJ uses to declare the whole world Justified has in the same verse declared them saved, "life for all men." Christ declares in this verse that the very same Justification brings life for all men. Note there aren’t two justifications here as UOJ teaches, Objective and Subjective. The one Justification brings life. Anyone who is declared Justified by God is saved. Now I understand that every UOJist will wreathe in anguish over this and say they do not teach Universal Salvation but then they cannot use this verse in an attempt to prove Universal Justification either. It's by God's grace that in this one verse there is the refutation of UOJ's claim that the whole world was Justified. It's important to remember the Lutheran method of exegesis which is that no verse is to be interpreted alone, Scripture interprets Scripture (2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.) and with this method the clarity, unity and perspicuity of Scripture is brought forth by the gracious work of the Holy Spirit working through the Word. I hope this helps the discussion.
Mathetes said...
(Apologies to the moderators. I forgot to put my John Hancock on my comment.) Thanks to all of you "Impavidissimos" for getting to this heart of Lutheranism! Any discrepancies in this doctrine seem to appear "like maggots on firewood that come with a gentle touch, but have the hardest teeth, and gnaw away at the core of the firewood, yet resulting that it still appears undamaged on the surface." (Also Martin Chemnitz, Loci Theologici, Locus on Poverty. Translation own.) It is so very easy to think of atonement and saving as the same thing. It is not. The wonderful phrase "Christ died for the whole world" does not mean that the whole world is heaven-bound. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13-14) Mr. Benjamin Rusch
Brett Meyer said...
Correction: I wrote "wreathe" and should have written "writhe". Forgive me, I didn't mean to imply that UOJists are in the holiday spirit.
Michael Sullivan said...
Because of his promise to Abraham, God declared all Old Testament Israel to be his chosen people. And yet only those who believed His Word were the true children of God. In the Old Testament the promise made by God was offered to every Israelites; it was objectively declared. But it only benefited those who received it by faith, those who heard the promise and in whose heart faith was created by means of the Word . Isn't this similar to justification? God declared the whole world forgiven, but only those who believe this promise receive forgiveness and are truly forgiven. Only those who hear the Gospel and in whose heart faith is created by means of the Gospel, truly receive the promise of salvation and forgiveness. My point is this: The argument against universal objective justification being that it sounds silly ("God saying you are forgiven, but not really") is not really an argument. God said something similar to his Old Testament people when He declared them to be his own, and yet only those who received this promise by faith were truly his own. Isn’t there a parallel here? (If not, I am willing to be corrected with an explanation.) Another question I have is this: Every time I read Romans 3:23,24 I see Universal Objective Justification. If the subject of the participle of δικαιούμενοι in verse 24 is not πάντες of verse 23, than what is? I really would like to see a brief explanation of this verse from someone who says universal objective justification is not in Scripture. In Christian love, Michael Sullivan
Anonymous said...
I think part of the misunderstanding as well is the context. We must remember that Paul is writing to the Christians in Rome. They are already saved. There is a premise in place because of this. Paul is not addressing John Q. Public. Peace in Jesus, Joe Krohn
Rev. Paul A. Rydecki said...
Pr. Sullivan, I would add a comment here about Romans 3:23-24 as a matter of exegesis. (Obviously a brief comment like this can't do exegetical justice to this section in Romans, but for what it's worth...) It's not quite as simple as saying πάντες = all people, always, period. The context will reveal who the "all" are. In v.22, Paul has just described what this "righteousness" is that has been revealed, and how it comes: a "righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to πάντας those who believe." Faith is already identified as key to this justification that comes from God. In v.23, the πάντες clearly refers to "all" those whom Paul has already proved to be under sin, i.e., "the whole world" (c.f. v.19), both Jews and Gentiles. No question there. But in v.24, the verb is a present tense, δικαιούμενοι, "being justified." One would think that if these "all" have already been justified, Paul would have used a perfect tense here. The present seems to indicate the status change that takes place as people are brought to faith in Jesus through the gospel. In Luther's Commentary on Romans, he adds a gloss here: "all, as many as are justified" (quotquot justificantur in Latin). As many as are justified are justified, not by works, but freely by his grace...through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus...through faith in his blood. Paul wraps up the whole thought of the paragraph in v.26, δικαιοῦντα τὸν ἐκ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ, "justifying the one who is of the faith in Jesus." I just don't see how faith is not an essential part of Paul's whole argument here - not faith as "that which man brings to the table," but faith as that gift of God through which a man's status before God changes from "wicked" to "righteous."
Brett Meyer said...
Michael, I believe your initial example is pointing to two very different things. God’s chosen people were the Isrealites, the decendents of Abraham. Chosen, meaning chosen to be the people through whom God would bring the promised Messiah. Not chosen as to those who would be His children and receive the forgiveness of sins since there were people of other nations who were children of God through faith in the promised Messiah, and because, as you correctly point out, there were those within the nation of Isreal who rejected the promise. Now this is separate from how God declared how the Old Testament people could become the children of God and receive the forgiveness of their sins. That way was through believing in the promised Messiah. Your statement, “In the Old Testament the promise made by God was offered to every Israelites; it was objectively declared. But it only benefited those who received it by faith”, is a good example of why this distinction needs to be made. You bring in a critical consideration concerning when a person is considered Justified, further, at what point is God’s wrath over a person’s sin removed, and he becomes a child of God. Christ declares in Galations 3:6-9, “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.” Romans 3:23-25, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood…” Note that verse 24 declares, “redemption that is in Christ Jesus” and teaches that in Christ is redemption from sin and death, in Christ is all righteousness and, in fact, the only righteousness that exists is in Christ and never apart from Him. Verse 25 shows how we have access to Christ’s righteousness, how He becomes the propitiation for someone’s sins, and that is through faith in His blood, through faith in Christ we are in Him and He in us. Through faith we have all that is His, His righteousness which avails against God’s wrath, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Instantaneously through faith worked graciously by the Holy Ghost through the Word and Sacraments, the Means of Grace. Pastor Rydecki’s quote of Luther’s faithful Against the Heavenly Prophets confirms this also. More importantly the Confessions of the Lutheran Church confirm this here, The Defense of the Augsburg Confession What Is Justifying Faith?, 48] "The adversaries feign that faith is only a knowledge of the history, and therefore teach that it can coexist with mortal sin. Hence they say nothing concerning faith, by which Paul so frequently says that men are justified, because those who are accounted righteous before God do not live in mortal sin." http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php Those who are accounted righteous before God do not live in mortal sin. This is a faithful confession which is in harmony with Scripture, anything contrary to this is not of God. I hope this helps, In Christ, Brett Meyer
Marcus Manthey said...
As I read this thread, I must admit to being more than a little perplexed. I was unaware that there was, among us, such profound confusion over this vital doctrine of Scripture. Some of the statements here – particularly those that refer to “two justifications,” demonstrate a shallowness of thinking that is inconsistent with the level of theological concern and involvement typically displayed on this blog. Where has this idea come from? Is not the language sufficiently plain to make clear that what is called “objective justification” or “subjective justification” is simple short-hard for “justification viewed from an objective, or general, perspective” and “justification viewed from a subjective, or personal, perspective?” These are not two justifications, nor has any WELS statement or confession of which I am aware ever claimed as much. It is, rather, two ways of speaking about the one justification that Scripture teaches. It acknowledges that Scripture itself speaks about God’s act of justification in two distinct, though related, ways. That’s why, in 2 Corinthians 5, Paul can write in v.18 of “God, who reconciled us (i.e. believers) to himself through Christ,” then in the very next verse and say “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ.” Paul isn’t talking about two reconciliations; he is only viewing God’s act of reconciling from two different points of view. Think of justification as a magnificent banquet God has prepared. He intends all the delicious food and drink to be for all people. He has issued banquet invitations to all people. He isn’t kidding; the banquet really is for all. However, some people don’t know about the invitation so they don’t come to the banquet. Some don’t believe the invitation is meant for them so they don’t come. Some convince themselves that they won’t like or don’t need the food being served at the banquet so they don’t come. A fortunate few hear God’s invitation and believe it; they come to the banquet and enjoy all it has to offer. Then God lets them go out and tell those who don’t know it yet just how wonderful God’s banquet is. The banquet that God prepares for all and the banquet that is enjoyed by the few are not two different banquets. It’s the same banquet, viewed from two points of view. The banquet as God sees it is for everyone; the banquet as the believer views it is just for him or her. Same banquet. That’s justification, and if you read Scripture and the Confessions (and the WELS writers quoted above) with that in mind, you will find that all the pieces fall into place.
LutherRocks said...
"These are not two justifications, nor has any WELS statement or confession of which I am aware ever claimed as much." There are scads; as recent as last June at the South Central District Convention. Go to their website. Go to the WELS website. Go to the seminary website. There are essays/statements/confessions galore. Joe Krohn
Rev. Paul A. Rydecki said...
Marcus, Thanks for your comments. They are much appreciated and well stated. The banquet analogy seems appropriate (reminiscent of a certain parable, of course). I think the questions arise more when the forensic analogy is applied. For example, some would ask, "Is that atheist over there considered by God to be righteous or unrighteous - innocent or guilty - saint or sinner - saved or condemned?" At least, that's how I've heard the question phrased. I'll step out of the discussion again for awhile and allow others to answer.