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| Historic St. John Lutheran Church, Milwaukee. The mother church of WELS was kicked out out of the synod by a vindictive Church Growth DP. |
Daryl Meyer said...Well, the other Ichabod might be a kook, but I wouldn't have found out about yesterday's concert had it not been posted on his blog. I still have goose bumps from singing the bass line to TLH 467 with all 2325 pipes blasting. What a wonderful service!
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| Lutheran history - and Milwaukee history. |
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| If I had real estate like this available, I would make it the flagship, not the leper. |
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Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel has left a new comment on your post "Glende Rouses Himself about a Supposed Dispute, Wh...":
Ichabod -
You said under the one [altar] pic:
"Historic St. John Lutheran Church, Milwaukee. The mother church of WELS was kicked out out of the synod by a vindictive Church Growth DP."
When I read your captioned words under the pic, I thought of the following:
I think that church bureaucracy does not consider itself vindictive for any of its words and / or actions towards member churches and WELS members. But, I think that when any of its bureaucracy and kowtowing pastors are cited as promulgating public teaching and preaching contrary to the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions, - those individuals, (doing the citing) providing specific examples, are deemed (by church bureaucracy), [as] unloving and intolerant for the public rebuke.
It is further my perception that the church bureaucracy and those who dutifully follow in line, consider themselves as the pure and holy ones and that all who may disagree, (with them) are considered, the erring and unloving. So, then, the modus operandi is to call those who disagree, aside; lean on them and attempt to intimidate them with church bureaucracy’s version of the 8th Commandment and meaning thereof. And, all in the process, it is easily overlooked that unscriptural public preaching and teaching, often merits public notice and rebuke.
Furthermore, to address the old argument that is often offered: "Why don't you personally go and talk to that individual who you assert is errantly preaching and teaching?" So, - how does one effectively communicate such, when errant teaching and preaching has continued for some time and when the one preaching and teaching cannot be reached [is not hearing and / or has written one off]? How long does one wait and be patient, while he witnesses the proliferation of public errant [unscriptural] preaching and teaching within one’s particular Christian congregation?
Finally, there are no easy answers. And it is a simplistic solution to say that one is to privately speak with an individual or individuals who will then likely tell him, that he is either half baked; has inaccurate information; or that he is without theological understanding; while they, in the same breath, will tell that person that they subscribe to the same Scripture and Confessions [while at the same time] they ignore that subscription with their continued errant practice of teaching and preaching.
Frankly, I would hope and pray that more Lutheran church members, - (and, also, those of other Christian denominations) would feel freer to publicly rebuke those who preach and teach contrary to Scripture. Those who continue to errantly do so should not be politely afforded the darkness covering of anonymity and behind the scenes conversations, (with those citing them) while they continue to publicly teach and preach the errant Word.
Nathan M. Bickel - Bay City, MI
www.thechristianmessage.org
www.moralmatters.org
Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel has left a new comment on your post "Glende Rouses Himself about a Supposed Dispute, Wh...":
Ichabod -
You said under the one [altar] pic:
"Historic St. John Lutheran Church, Milwaukee. The mother church of WELS was kicked out out of the synod by a vindictive Church Growth DP."
When I read your captioned words under the pic, I thought of the following:
I think that church bureaucracy does not consider itself vindictive for any of its words and / or actions towards member churches and WELS members. But, I think that when any of its bureaucracy and kowtowing pastors are cited as promulgating public teaching and preaching contrary to the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions, - those individuals, (doing the citing) providing specific examples, are deemed (by church bureaucracy), [as] unloving and intolerant for the public rebuke.
It is further my perception that the church bureaucracy and those who dutifully follow in line, consider themselves as the pure and holy ones and that all who may disagree, (with them) are considered, the erring and unloving. So, then, the modus operandi is to call those who disagree, aside; lean on them and attempt to intimidate them with church bureaucracy’s version of the 8th Commandment and meaning thereof. And, all in the process, it is easily overlooked that unscriptural public preaching and teaching, often merits public notice and rebuke.
Furthermore, to address the old argument that is often offered: "Why don't you personally go and talk to that individual who you assert is errantly preaching and teaching?" So, - how does one effectively communicate such, when errant teaching and preaching has continued for some time and when the one preaching and teaching cannot be reached [is not hearing and / or has written one off]? How long does one wait and be patient, while he witnesses the proliferation of public errant [unscriptural] preaching and teaching within one’s particular Christian congregation?
Finally, there are no easy answers. And it is a simplistic solution to say that one is to privately speak with an individual or individuals who will then likely tell him, that he is either half baked; has inaccurate information; or that he is without theological understanding; while they, in the same breath, will tell that person that they subscribe to the same Scripture and Confessions [while at the same time] they ignore that subscription with their continued errant practice of teaching and preaching.
Frankly, I would hope and pray that more Lutheran church members, - (and, also, those of other Christian denominations) would feel freer to publicly rebuke those who preach and teach contrary to Scripture. Those who continue to errantly do so should not be politely afforded the darkness covering of anonymity and behind the scenes conversations, (with those citing them) while they continue to publicly teach and preach the errant Word.
Nathan M. Bickel - Bay City, MI
www.thechristianmessage.org
www.moralmatters.org
