From Appleton - The Entertainment Capital of WELS - Another Farce

Glende and the Black-Eyed Peas, Fergie

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "From Appleton - The Entertainment Capital of WELS ...":

I contacted Engelbrecht via e-mail expressing my concerns about CORE several months ago. To date, no response. Ditto SE Wis. DP Rutschow. SP Schroeder, however, did respond and has been taking action.

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Ski and Paramore

Light From Light:

At St. Peter’s December 14, 2009 call meeting, our Church Council President announced that the council had amended Pastor Glende’s job description to read “lead pastor,” and that we would be calling an “associate pastor.”

I moved to table the call because I believed that our congregation did not have enough information to ratify Pastor Glende as lead pastor, and call an associate.  I believed that the council needed to better communicate with Pastor Christenson to better understand why he left after only seven months.  Also, without going into any specifics, I cited a long letter that I had sent to the council and my pastors back at the beginning of November which raised important issues.  I did not mention any of the specifics of my letter because I believed that that would be beyond the bounds of a call meeting.

Another layman asked whether there were additional actions or steps that needed to be taken before we issued a new call, and Pastor Glende replied, “If we had to do things, if there was anything that needed to take place before we could call again, then District President Engelbrecht wouldn’t allow us to issue a call.”  District President Engelbrecht did provide our congregation with a call list of five candidates that he believed were suitable to be an associate pastor.

The argument against the motion was that neither Pastor Glende, nor our church council, nor District President Engelbrecht believed that any additional steps needed to be taken.  District President Engelbrecht did attend and participate in our call meeting.  When he was not speaking, he sat in the back, and chatted with Pastor Skorzewski.

The motion to table the call failed.  However, it did receive a smattering of timid “ayes.”  After the meeting, another layman estimated that the motion to table received about a third of the votes present.  (I thought it probably received less than that, but there was no official count).  St. Peter congregation did call Pastor Wayne Shevey to be our associate pastor with a unanimous vote.  This is a divine call, and it is our prayer that God will bless St. Peter through this call.

On Thursday, December 17, 2009, I met with Pastor Glende, and he provided me with the church council’s official response to my letter.  The council’s response was a letter that summarily and unanimously rejected every one of the concerns I had raised as being either false or without merit.

May the Lord be with his Church, his Bride, his Chosen People “to the very end of the age.”  (Matthew 28:20).  “The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people.  Amen.”  (Revelation 22:21).

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GJ - More than one person wonders about the glue that holds this farce together. A layman raises legitimate concerns and finds them batted down by the typical WELS homie attitudes. Engelbrecht is bending over backwards to favor, protect, and promote the worst of Fox Valley, the antithesis of Lutheran doctrine and worship.

But let us take a gander at Engelbrecht's leadership. He has no problem with Parlow's St. Mark Depere cult being a member of another denomination. He has no apparent problem with Parlow, Ski, Glende, Buske, and Bishop Katie worshiping at a Babtist conference (lovin' it). Engelbrecht has no objections, as far as anyone can tell, about Ski and Katie studying at Granger Community Church. How about Dirt or Story or Catalyst. Silence.

Ski will be teaching the district about evangelism again--or--How to turn $250,000 into 9 members, in one year!

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Pastor L has left a new comment on your post "From Appleton - The Entertainment Capital of WELS ...":

Just weeks after coming to the Northern Wisconsin District five years ago I learned the lay of the land. One area pastor even verbalized it when he said to me, "It's a good ol' boys district."

That will not change as long as Doug Engelbrecht remains as District President, a post he's held for upwards of twenty years. While I must respect the office, long ago I lost respect for the man holding it.

A seven-month pastorate is unheard of in the WELS. The district presidents have agreed not to extend a call to a pastor until he's been at his current church FOUR YEARS. As I understand it, Pastor Christenson was spared 3 1/2 more years in Appleton because a more kind-heart DP included him on call lists in his district. It wasn't because DP Engelbrecht was trying to help the ministry!

It amazes me that more lay people at St. Peter aren't asking, "Why did Pastor Christenson leave so soon." Golly, usually when there's a change in pastors it's headline news. Somehow this got buried on page twenty at St. Peter!

Sad to say, we're becoming a synod of cover-ups. I,for one, plan to repent in the new year and ask more questions.

I probably won't ask my district president, though. There are many times in my five years that I've left phone messages and e-mail messages and never received a response from DP Engelbrecht. My circuit pastor has said, "You mean you didn't hear from Doug? He said he was going to contact you."

So, now you know why I'm not too worried about getting in trouble with my district president. I don't think he knows my phone number or e-mail address!

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "From Appleton - The Entertainment Capital of WELS ...":

Has Mt. Olive gone CG now too? It's getting very hard to find a good church in Appleton. I agree with the previous poster though: Riverview and St. Paul are conservative. You can add St. Luke, Little Chute to the "safe" list. What a sorry state WELS is in when one has to make lists of safe churches. Appleton does need to wake up. The derelict DP needs to be ousted at the next district conference, and the conservative churches need to get behind a strong candidate who is willing to openly oppose the nonsense going on up there.

By the way, conservative Lutherans in the Milwaukee area may want to look in to Trinity Lutheran downtown, an LCMS congregation that still uses the Lutheran Hymnal.

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GJ - The Shrinkers worked hard for 30+ years to bring the Lutheran Church to this low point. It will take the Word, the Confessions, and time to rectify the situation.

YuleVille Has Added Another Ornament to the Tree

I had to upgrade the image to show what happened to the January issue of Forward in Christ (WELS). "A Lutheran Voice" has been added to the masthead.

The Chicaneries took away all references to the synod. They did it in baby steps, reacted to complaints, back-pedaled a little, then continued the agenda. The Conference of Pussycats said the congregations should call themselves Lutheran, but the magazine and hymnal did not.

I know the adiaphora arguments, which prove the synod leaders know nothing about the Book of Concord and less about its history. When there is a confessional crisis, not even the matters of indifference can be surrendered.

The Shrinkers said, "To grow as much as possible, to hide our identity and gain the world's favor, we have to get rid of the Lutheran label and the odious WELS label." They got what they wanted.

KJV John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

WELS Viewed from the Inside

Hi little boy, we are taking over your group too.

I have man-hands, but I'm a girl.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Nominate Chicanery Awards Here":

Bad spelling, not knowing German, and CG all symptoms of the the WELS trying to educate men for the ministry on the cheap. The men know it, too, so enough of them aren't properly motivated to do better at studies, and learn German well--beyond the two-year requirement.

Here's the history of the rise and decline of the WELS (some details of which you mentioned before). Through the 1970s tuition was cheap, and one knew that he'd get back whatever he paid into the system once in the ministry. Then, once the 1970s crowd graduated, they changed it so synodical monies went toward missions and not so much toward synodical schools. So the guys who went through the system nearly free also got the synod to subsidize their careers!

So the inexpensive schooling ended, and then guys started working a lot during college and seminary just to make ends meet, even working all hours of the night and weekend, paying money into the system they knew they'd never see again.

Ironically, I met one of the guys who went through the system when it was nearly free. He made enough money to meet all expenses during college and seminary mainly by typing other guys term papers!. He was shocked that I didn't know German any better than I did. I told him that not only was knowing it better not required (two years German minimum), but after all the odd jobs I worked to pay to graduate, I had no motivation or time left for knowing German better. Moreover, I told him that if I had been supported like he had been in the past, not only would I have had the time for more academic pursuits, but I would be as impressed with the WELS system and theological system as he was, and thus I'd learn German well just to become expert in that system. However, from what I saw and experienced and know, the liberal theological schools and seminaries are just as cheap and provide a better education (accredited all the way).

What happened to the WELS is they started to believe their own propaganda, so they expect young men to be motivated purely by their message, which is the souped up Gospel, that is, UOJ-turbo charged Gospel, and that this is enough and they don't even have to spend much money on them. Anyway, they were wrong, and now they are putting out poorly educated clergy who spell bad, forgot whatever German they learned, and get involved in CG due to poor theology.

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GJ - WELS was still giving back all prep, NWC, and seminary tuition at graduation in 1987, but they began taking that away soon after. The account above would also fit Missouri and the ELCA segments, pre-merger, because tuition was low and home congregations chipped in.

The old mission theme was, "That light is brightest at home which shines afar." Most pastors come from large congregations. Now synods and congregations both spend their income on themselves while letting future pastors graduate (if they do) with huge debt loads unrelated to future income.

WELS took back the graduation bonus in the name of saving money, got the biggest charitable gift in history from St. Marvin of Schwan, and still went broke.

Still, the money picture is a reflection of bad theology pumped from the cesspools of the Reformed. Many WELS leaders truly believed the synod would grow from enormous expenditures of money. I heard more than one Mequon student gush over how much ELCA spent on public relations. I wondered, "Who is telling them this? Why do they think that matters?" I tried to tell the innocents that all ELCA received in national attention was a big story on DMS, a parish blowing up over radicalism.The glazed eyes remained.

America's Most Decorated Soldier Died Today

COL Robert L. Howard
Place of birth	Opelika, Alabama
Place of death	Waco, Texas
Allegiance	United States of America
Service/branch	United States Army
Years of service	1956–1992
Rank	Colonel
Unit	Army Special Forces MACV-SOG
Battles/wars	Vietnam War
Awards	Medal of Honor Distinguished Service Cross (2) Silver Star Defense Superior Service Medal Legion of Merit (4) Bronze Star (4) Purple Heart (8)
Other work	Employed by the Department of Veterans Affairs

Robert L. Howard served in Viet Nam.

Ski Will Teach Everyone To Be Relevant...Again

Readers can provide their own caption.
SP Schroeder will also speak at this year's workshop.

For Ski Fans only! Hooters Calendar. You were warned.

March 6, 2010

Fox Valley Lutheran High School
5300 N Meade
Appleton, WI


Organized by the
Committee for Adult Discipleship
Northwest Anything Goes District, WELS

This Year

15 Be Relevant
– Pastor James Skorzewski
This session will explore why being relevant as a church is important and ways to be relevant as a church in order to reach young people ages nineteen through thirty-five who, statistically, are missing from churches today. Examples will be given from Pastor Ski’s experience with such worship at his church, the CORE, in Appleton as well as previous experiences at St. Marcus in Milwaukee.

Last Year

20. Be Relevant
– Pastor “Ski” James Skorzewski

This session will explore how relevant worship can be used to reach young people ages 19-35 who, statistically, are missing from churches today. Examples will be given from Pastor Ski's experience with such worship at St. Marcus Lutheran Church in Milwaukee, WI. Pastor Ski will also discuss how he plans to use this approach at his new church, The CORE in Appleton. (1,2,3)

Nominate Chicanery Awards Here

The time has come to inaugurate the annual Chicanery Awards, given for the most outrageous promotion of Church Growth stunts in Lutherdom.

Some think the award will be called the Chicken, but there is a better name to use, as all good farmers know.

Missouri and ELS members may participate as well.

The nominations will be wide open and anonymous. Any suggestions will be weighed carefully before allowing the comments to come through. Since so many reader are WELS pastors, spelling does not count. Just git reasonable close.

My apologies to the offended, but this is LCMS CGrowthism.

Say It Ain't So, Joe

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Stuff I Find When Looking for Something Else - Rip...":

Joe Krohn said: "I don't think anyone is talking about changing doctrine."

If I had a dollar for every time I heard this I could fund the CORE single-handedly. Yet if Krohn's statement is based in any reality whatsoever, why would you see a video like the one Wisconsin Lutheran Chapel put out available here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlp5uMDB7Mk

The DOCTRINE promoted in this trite little chancel drama is nothing short of Norman Vincent Peale or Robert Schuller.
The message? Be positive. Glass is half full not half empty! You could see that "full gospel" on NBC on Sunday evenings on Extreme Makeover Home Edition. It may not be the entire preaching that goes on that WL Chapel, but it is what they chose to promote to the entire world to see. What an incredible use of time and public preaching opportunity. Very sad.

No change Joe? You are completely blinded to what's happening. It is doctrine changed. The message is about, be cool with us, we are relational etc. Gone is any sort of trust in the Law and Gospel.

Attorneys Announce Appointment

M. Leyrer has accepted a position at a law firm, specializing in digital law, meretricious lawsuits, and bad spelling.

Church From Scratch - Doebler's Metaphor - Not Mine

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "More Humor from Joe Krohn (Patterson's Buddy) and ...":

I like your blog, it's very informative and witty.
It seems like the C&C saps creativity and style from it's followers; they always sound so 'hackneyed'.

That metaphor you use, "Church from Scratch"? That pretty much sums up the whole church growth movement.

I would know, I've been in one.

I look forward to your next post.

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GJ - Doebler began a ChurchFromScratch.net website where he lauded all the Church Growth heroes. I looked up the content of his initial website and commented upon it, pointing out that "Old Scratch" is a common nickname for Satan. The old URL switches to the Rock and Roll link. Try it out, where I linked it that way above.

The Rock and Roll Church is a boil on Patterson's backside. He has defended it and promoted it. The Conference of Pussycats met at Patterson's church and found no sin in Doebler shamelessly copying Schwaermer worship and sermons.

After all the money has been spent--$50,000 on a full-time female assistant alone --they have only a handful at their weekly entertainment gatherings.

Doebler thought their salvation depended on a $200,000 grant from the Antioch Foundation - for a worship leader! They still got $20,000. And they have one little web page with a map. They do not even have a title on their home page file, so the browser just announces the browser name. Tim, Joe, Stetzer - help Doebler out.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church From Scratch - Doebler's Metaphor - Not Min...":

Imitation without understanding why something works generally results in failure. C&C is too lazy or ignorant to even grasp this concept. That being said, why would anyone want to follow them?

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GJ - But wait. Bishop Katie went to the Dirt Conference to find out exactly how it works. Oh, I get it. She also went to Granger, two Drives, maybe Catalyst, Story.

I think you are right.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church From Scratch - Doebler's Metaphor - Not Min...":

My LWMS group was hood-winked into giving mission offerings to Doebler's church. Oh the equipment they needed to greatly enrich their services! I sure hope the instruments(sorry, I mean equipment) were in fine working order.

My pastor, and neighboring pastors, were lead to believe that Christ The Rock was "innocently implementing a contemporary service." Not so innocent when you have Patterson the C&Cer leading the way.

"I want my money back!"

disclaimer-Yes, Patterson has a family. Yes, it is Christmas time.
Why is he buddies with Gurgel? Think about it dude! Just think about it! And do not forget the C&C conference and Exponential.

In Christ,
from WELS church lady

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church From Scratch - Doebler's Metaphor - Not Min...":

The South Central Babtist district is the red-headed step-child of the Southeastern Wisconsin District. Bishop Glaeske shakes his head as Patterson guides the CG movement. With Gurgle in the fold you'll see Patterson's grant writing increase as the synod debt grows larger.

The above poster is right: Wake UP!

It amazes me how Gurgle ran the confessionals out of the WELS yet the Changers still remain.?

Read a Typical Response to the Glende/Ski Pop-Tart Pix

Ski posed with MariQueen, who posed for Playboy.

 

Ski posed with Katy Perry: "Ur So Gay" and "I Kissed a Girl."

 

Ski posed with Fergie, who looks uncomfortable.

 

Glende posed with Katy Perry, former Gospel singer.

Read and weep, you spineless Doctrinal Pussycats and Circuit Popes. This is from a young couple devoted to orthodox Lutheran doctrine. They have long-standing ties to the Wisconsin Synod. Every time you dolts fail to do your minimal duty, you dump another bucket of manure on people like this.

It's been nearly a week since I have seen those pictures of Ski and Glende and I am still utterly and completely appalled at these guys. I am just without words for their childish, immature ways. Unbelievable. I remember this same feeling when I left ELCA - "How could they throw out the very Word which is supposed to be the basis of all teaching and salvation!" I NEVER thought I would see a similar kind of blindness and complete apathy sweep across a supposedly Confessional and conservative Lutheran body. And I am even more dismayed at the comments that people leave for these guys - High fiving them all the way! Amazing, simply amazing. What blindness, what deception, what an unbelievably beguiled and desensitized lot Satan has captured. It makes me think of the line in Apocalypse Now - "The Horror! The Horror!" My wife is incredulous as well.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Read a Typical Response to the Glende/Ski Pop-Tart...":

"It makes me think of the line in Apocalypse Now - 'The Horror! The Horror!'"

There are many more of us who feel the same way. It is time to tell the scammers to take a hike. I am tired of being misled and used.

Wisconsin Lutheran Willow Creek Chapel in Madison To Hold Christmas Day Service - With Women Leading

Trapp had this WELS church join the Willow Creek Association.

They are still WC in spirit, if not in URL fellowship.

Parlow-Kelm's St. Mark Depere still is a WC member.

Willow Creek Chapel will have a Christmas Day service for the first time in 20 years.

Trapp will not hold the service. Instead, several women will lead the worship service. Yes, rumor has it that Trapp handed over the planning and leadership of the service to two women on his staff, but a couple of men have been asked as window dressing to do some readings. I hope they have badges, like Token Male Lector.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Wisconsin Lutheran Willow Creek Chapel in Madison ...":

A WELS church cannot subscribe to the Willow Creek Association statement of faith:

"All believers are members of the body of Christ, the one true church universal. Spiritual unity is to be expressed among Christians by acceptance and love of one another across ..... denominational lines."

Why does St. Mark? Isn't it WELS?

Stuff I Find When Looking for Something Else - Ripped from the Pages of the Church and Change Secret Listserve

Steve Witte, DMin Gordon Conwell, is a Chicanery founder.
WELS disciplined him by giving him world missionary oversight.Fuller alumni - click to enlarge the image.


From the Top-Secret Church and Chicanery Listserve:

A more contemporary church leader and former president of WELS, Carl Mischke, once closed a WELS convention with words that I will paraphrase from memory, "We must examine everything we say and examine everything that we do so that more are saved."

Grace and peace from Hong Kong, John C. Lawrenz

[GJ - SP Naumann gave Church Growth its start, but Mischke was Kelm's finger-puppet for really backing the movement. Mischke supposed said Kelm could join any denomination he wanted. No kidding - Kelm loves every denomination except his own.]

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John,

That was pure gold - thanks

Don Patterson

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In closing my goal isn’t to change the way churches currently perform worship, I am just wanting to open up new churches that are outside of the outside of the box idea.

www.gotocore.com is a great ministry. I would encourage you to e-mail Pastor Ski who’s (sic) church isn’t even open yet, and no members. Ask him how much love he has experienced from his fellow brothers as they begin to launch into new un charted territories.

God Bless
Brian Arthur Lampe
CEO-ministries.com

[GJ - Real love--of God's Word and the Confessions--would have meant extending Ski, Glende, and Ash the Left Foot of Fellowship, so they could have become the Calvinists they always were. Why fund Reformed doctrine with Lutheran money?]

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2) A congregation may be in a "dying" community, such as a rural area or a small town. I wonder how many of our Michigan communities are "dying" right now due to this economy? If you have a small town where population is stagnant (no one moving in for the past 5 years, for example), or a town where the major employers are shutting down and people are moving away for work, it shouldn't surpise (sic) anyone if this is reflected in church attendance and membership.

Steve Kurtzahn

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Shanna:

I found your reply to Jan Nelson to be respectful and helpful, as well as thoughtful and thought-provoking. Yours is an example of the style of communication we are looking for on the Church and Change listserv.

Thank you.

Jim Aderman
Church and Change, moderator [GJ - also a founder, ex-retired/fired pastor, contributing editor - Forward in Chicanery, FIC.]

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Aaron,

I believe you have accurately understood what I meant by "effective" and using the word "faithful" in a seemingly unloving way. Below are the three senarios (sic) I had used at the C & C conference as I discussed relevance.

John Parlow "Dream big...the Word works!"

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John,

Thands (sic) for illustrating so well some key issues we face as we consider how best to communicate the message entrusted to us. You mentioned previously that you used these illustrations in your presentation at the recent Church and Change Conference. I wasn't able to make your session (there were way too many "must-attend" offerings at this conference). Do you have materials/handouts that
you could post or otherwise make available for those who missed it?

Mike Borgwardt
Crossroads Church, Chicago [GJ - Notice the omission of Lutheran; at least Borgwardt is honest. But does he take Lutheran money?]


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Joe Krohn Itches for Growth -

I have been following this Dr. Sweet thread and it's (sic) morphs with great interest. This is a great example of the verse "iron sharpens iron" a pastor friend of mine uses quite often.

Just to interject, and this may have been stated already; yes, we live in the end times, but we are not growing and there are churches that have experienced phenomenal growth in the last 10 to 15 years. We have to do something. I don't know if I'll be at the conference, but I am somewhat put off by the fact that it is assumed by some on this list that some of us cannot discern what is good and what is bad. The casual/baby Christian/low end of the spectrum faith worshipper is not going to be at the Conference. These are people with strong faiths who show genuine concern about the future of our Synod and theology. Reaction on this list is proof of that. We are pretty much WELS Christians who are very
involved in our churches. Thank the Lord that Luther was able to discern. Luther is a great example to look at in times like these. Take what is good and throw out the bad. But you have to remain relevant in today’s society and if we need to bring in someone who can help us, I say go for it! When I see churches like Lakewood in Houston buy the old Omni because of their growth, or Saddleback
in California, or Chandler Christian Church right in my back yard buying up chunks of real estate to expand, I think they must be doing something right!! I would never approve of their theologies, but hey, why can’t we take what they are doing right and graft it on our theology? We’re pretty proud of our
theology aren’t we? At least that’s the impression I get from this list. We have to get proactive. I fear our Synod has waited too long. At times I grieve for WELS. We just need to get as evangelical as the Evangelicals are and be like it says in our name: Wisconsin EVANGELICAL Lutheran Synod.

God Bless you all!

Joe Krohn

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Dear Redeemed and fellow Brothers and Sisters of the WELS,

This internet, what a blessing...and a curse.

I don't think anyone is talking about changing doctrine. I think we all agree that there are different ways of doing ministry as long as it is Biblical and I haven't read anything on these threads that was
un-Biblical. I see alot (sic) of 'iron sharpening iron' as a good friend of mine likes to say. I think we all agree that in general we can do a better job as a Synod since our growth has been stagnant. If we can glean some sucessful (sic) strategies from other sources we should. We may even convert some of these 'heretics'. But I think this is the rub. I think some have trouble separating these methods
from their doctrine. Because it is their idea, somehow it is intertwined with their doctrine. It's kind of like separating the sin from the sinner. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but it works. Or taking a secular song and changing the lyrics to make it sacred. Some folks just can't separate the old relationship of the melody with the old lyrics even though the new song is God pleasing. (especially for someone who may never have heard the 'old' song.) It's just a point of perspective. I hope this helps.

Blessings to you all,

Joe Krohn